WS - Concerns about teaching

[Julie in MN]

Hi Christy,
Here is a quote I wrote a while ago about why I like Writing Strands. I still agree that for us, it is just enough & not too much. Whenever I pick up a different writing book, I seem to open to the page that says, "Write 500 words on XXX." I close the book right away & run back to Writing Strands :o)

Although WS sometimes is imperfect, I do like it. My older dd could write a decent sentence so I just thought I could teach writing myself. But the directions she went in with my attempts free writing, journaling, & such just weren't very productive. I probably should have organized some specific lessons, but I was a newbie.

WS has been a great improvement for my younger ds. It gives him a direction. They teach perspective, tense, description, logical sequencing of a plot, and so on. This has been helpful to me. And the lessons aren't too huge.

Also, I try not to chain myself to the curriculum -- we adjust it as needed. Sometimes I bring a WS assignment to the gals on the boards & get a fresh perspective (thanks Tina!)!

Writing is a hard skill to teach, because true writing can have no answer key. Writing Strands gives me just enough guidance in real writing -- not too much controlled workbook that never transfers to real writing, and not too much freedom that doesn't develop new skills. But I am sure there are other good things out there that work especially well for particular children.

Just thought I'd share from the good experiences with WS camp :o)
julie

We used level 3 in 3rd grade, and level 4 in 4th & 5th grade. We will start level 5 this fall.

[sewardmom]

I had a similiar experience as Crystal had in thinking I could hand over the book to my children and they would write well. I have since purchased the Evaluating Writing book and have found it very helpful to me. It reminds me of how to approach my children's writing (attitude wise...) and helps with balancing my expectations.

Taking a week (or a few days sometimes) so I could think about and pray about critiquing their writing projects has been a good thing for us.

One line I remember reading several times now that has stuck with me was : don't expect your children's writing to be perfect right away - remember how long it took us to be perfect? Ouch! - Unfortunately, I need those reminders! LOL

Seriously, the book has been a blessing to me and helped me not to 'be afraid' of evaluating their writing.
Terri

[Archiver2]

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:39 pm

WS has been a challenge for us and it took me a while to realize that I must use it as a tool (which it is) and an aid to guide dd in her writing skills, not as the teacher itself. We have been able to work thru our challenges with it and are committed to sticking with it, at least to the end of Book 3. Still have two lessons to go.

WS seemed to go along well with what dd is learning in ILL (dialogues, using quotations correctly, and lots of other skills that seemed to be used in WS and then not too long after that in ILL and vice-versa).

[cbollin]

Is Writing Strands user friendly for both teacher and student?

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008

Writing Strands Level 3 --- user friendly? sorta. It is not as friendly as book 4. The key thing with WS is to not hand the book over to your child for independent learning. Read it to your child and coach them. Some parts of the book will seem a bit odd because you might think "why do we have to do this assignment???" Don't let your kids hear you say that of course. When that happens, just remind yourself that the lesson has a bigger reason behind it than might be obvious at first.

One such lesson has the child listing furniture in a room in a very organized way. The lesson is mostly about practicing writing a description so that your reader can see the room even if they are not there or have been to your house. There is actually a similar writing lesson in ILL. So it's a good exercise, even if you scratch your head while teaching it. It's about getting details as well as organizing a paragraph into a report.

WS level 4 --- very user friendly. I personally skipped lesson 1 in that book b/c it was odd. But the rest of the book is great.

WS is a very structured program to practice skills of writing. I call it the Karate Kid of writing programs. Remember that movie? Daniel had to do all of these odd jobs (wax the car, paint the fence, sand the floor) and it made no sense to him to learn Karate. But then his mentor calls out the moves and it all made sense. Writing Strands Level 3 is like that.

And with any writing, it is ok to help our students as much as they need to learn the skills.

MFW schedules WS about 2 days per week so that you can get through a level in a year. Usually the book is not on the same day as ILL so you aren't doing too much writing in one day. But there will be times that you'll adjust an ILL lesson. That way you hopefully won't be too bogged down in the week.
-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:17 pm

Another thing that is user-friendly about WS is that the lessons are usually very specific and narrowed down. I've picked up too many writing books and opened them right to the page that says, "Write 500 words on..." My ds would never recover...! There are exceptions but you can adapt as needed or ask for help over here on the boards in those few cases.

Oh, and we had a little fun with that furniture lesson. Ds would describe something & I'd draw it on the marker board using every misunderstanding I could -- drawing things on the ceiling etc :o) "Point taken, mom, the chair is on the FLOOR!"

[cbollin]

We are starting Writing Strands and they recommend the book Evaluating Writing. I read one review on it that was not positive. Anyone here who has it and who could give me some insight into the book and its pros and cons.
Thanks
Connie

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:17 am

Here’s a quick run down on Evaluating Writing. I hadn’t read it in a few years and read this morning to refresh my memory and look for new things. I'm glad to re-read it because I need the tips in there from time to time. :)

Evaluating Writing starts off with a gentle encouragement section for homeschool teachers who are just starting to teach writing. Lots of good advice in that section. Personally the con side of it in my eyes: I wish that single section were a bit longer. But in true fashion to the author, he does provide more as the book continues to keep us from being overwhelmed in the beginning.

I love his one page approach to talking about How to Correct and How Not to Correct. Most of the information does get repeated in each WS book in the introduction.

Then he follows up that section with some specific mechanical issues of writing and what to look for. Those Common Problems – are reprinted in the back pages of each WS Book

The largest section of the book gives examples (maybe idealistic and the author acknowledges that) of how to coach your child when helping him to improve his writing. The examples are from real assignments in various WS book levels. I think one of the kids is a super genius kid compared to mine. (Well, just the super advanced 7 y.o example. The 4th and 5th grade examples made me feel better.) So the Con of the section -- just ignore the one example from WS level 2 with the super genius 7 year old. <grin> But that's ok --- MFW doesn't use WS level 2 <grin> (edit to clarify: go ahead and read the WS 2 example. I'm just being a little silly to ignore it, but that might not be obvious. I just mean to not *expect* all 7 year old children to write that well.)

But I love that section of Evaluating Writing. What a great section with how to coach and talk with your child while writing. I’ve been saying for some time now --- don’t just hand Writing Strands over to your child – Talk with them while using it. And Evaluating Writing gives examples of that process. And it is a process.

One part of this section (Student Comments) is a series of writing examples followed by coaching examples in which one student’s progress over 3 WS books is followed. That might explain the seemingly jump in the order of the examples in the list in the Table of Contents. Very encouraging part of the book. Lots of examples of talking WITH your child to help them – and especially at the point in their lives when you are sure their brains have shut down (early teen age years.) Just ask the older moms in your co-ops who have graduated at least 2 children (and preferable if one is a son) and they’ll explain that to it if you don’t understand.

The one thing that might be a negative about the Student Papers and Comments section is that it could be very overwhelming to read in one sitting. Suggestion for that? On the first reading of that section of Evaluating Writing, just look at the examples of the WS book level you will be using and start with an example that is close to your child’s age/grade. For example if you are starting WS 3 with a 4th grader, then read that example first, skip up to the last section of the book (called Using Writing Strands Skills in other subjects). Then later, go back a little at a time and read the other examples from WS level 3 with other grade levels. You’ll want to read all of them at some point, but it doesn’t have to be in one day. Eventually you'll enjoy the WS 4 and 5 samples too because it shows progression of abilities and skills.

Ok… maybe that’s another “con” about the book --- it would be nice if the headings from the Table of Contents for the Student Writing and Comments were easier to see in the text section of the book. Oh well.

Next section: using Writing Strands skills in other subjects. I really like Mr. Marks’ advice in this section. I like how he points out about always improving your abilities in writing even in other assignments. Good stuff.

Appendix:
Some general thoughts about writing at university level.
And then a nice section for some spelling rules.
And last of all – a section about common words that get confused when writing (such as the difference between altogether, all together, complement/compliment and others)

***
I’m guessing that someone who is interested in learning how to coach your child through the lessons in Writing Strands will like the book. I’m guessing that people who think it is not a great fit for them are just looking for a book on how to grade writing papers. This is not a book on how to grade writing papers. I personally think the advice and coaching examples in Evaluating Writing can apply to more curriculum than just WS, but it makes a lot of sense for the WS lessons.
-crystal

[cbollin]

Is this hard to grade and teach? I am not confident with my ability to grade my childrens writing assignments. Maybe its just fear on my part that I won't teach them the correct way to write. My English teachers did a terrible job preparing me for college writing. I had to figure it out myself. I don't want that for my kidos. It makes me think I need to go with a writing program that I can send off to be graded. I do know that mfw recommendations are awesome though. Maybe, I should just give writing strands a try and stop stressing out so bad about it?

With all due respect to programs where you send in assignments and let some other homeschooling mom "grade" it...... (for mega bucks a year) You can do this Sandi. (((hugs)))

If you go with Writing Strands, consider buying Evaluating Writing. It was written by the WS author to help parents know how to coach a child in writing. We don't "grade writing". We evaluate and coach writing.

Or, may I suggest as a parent resource: book 1 of Igniting Your Writing. I really like that book's ability to give homeschooling parents an easy to do checklist guide for coaching and improving writing. It might help you to know how to do it.

now, that's better than spending $300 a year to have someone do that for you.

Time for my usual links to 2 of my favorite articles on Coaching Writing:
the 4 Deadly Errors of teaching writing: common mistakes and options for teachers
http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Ho ... es/192.php
and
It's so Awkward!
http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Ho ... es/131.php

In high school time, MFW will have necessary "hand holding" for us and our students in those high school writing assignments.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Oh, one of my favorite topics! Here are some previous threads. Maybe you've seen them. I'm sure to have had something to say
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1088
[and above]

I agree with your thinking -- kids need a person to help them with writing. In other words, it's impossible to hand kids a workbook & expect them to become better writers. That's the first thing -- they need one-on-one adult guidance.

The second part is whether Writing Strands will give *you* enough guidance. Of course the standard answer is that it's inexpensive, so why not give it a try before you decide (knowing of course that the Hazells recommend it).

I'd like to give you a "preview" of how it works. My son is in the middle of Level 5, so this isn't an exact comparison, but WS really cycles through skills at gradually higher levels, so when you do Level 3 assignments they will be something similar but easier I guess you could say.

Ds's last lesson in WS was lesson 10. It was very short (3 days). Here's how *I* looked at it:

1. Carefully read together the things he will "learn" in this lesson. They're listed very clearly at the top of the page... "It may take you three days to learn..." This lesson is about writing dialogue and changing tenses.

2. Then we read the lesson. The first day is often just reading. There is time to discuss both of your interpretations of what you will be working on in the days to come.

3. The lesson pretty much always includes sample writing. A timid writer can basically imitate the sample. Don't be afraid to let your child almost copy it. Some kids will need to follow models for a long time. A fearless writer like my youngest can take the sample and change it to his heart's desire. He can change it even more than the book seems to "allow" -- as long as we can look back at the goals we read at the top of the first page and see those in his writing. Believe me, I've had both types of writers in the same family!

This particular lesson gave a "picture" of a specific situation (an airport with a time zone line through the middle) and the tense would have to change back & forth a lot of times (past, present, & future depending on where he's standing), and it would be all dialogue so we could work on how to write direct quotes and all of that. However, my youngest had his own "picture" in his own little mind, so he changed things around in the assignment. This was fine as long as (a) he kept the tense changing idea so we could work on tense and (b) he kept the dialogue situation so we could work on punctuating dialogue (and continue working on the skill from the previous lesson, where he learned that more advanced writing rarely uses "he said" or any other identification of the speaker, and yet it must be clear who is speaking at all times).

4. When I am evaluating his writing, I have several resources in WS:
a. Always go back to the little list of things being taught in the particular lesson -- at the top of the page.
b. You will be aware of what lessons have been previously taught (even in previous levels), and can provide reminders about those skills.
c. There is almost always a sample piece of writing in the lesson. Remember that the sample is there to help you "picture" what your child "might" do with this lesson. The book can be used with several different grade levels. The sample isn't there to criticize or intimidate. Use the sample to help you teach. And again, don't be afraid to let your child almost copy it, or to let your child swing far and wide away from it -- as long as the focus list at the top of the page is still being worked on.
d. In the back of the WS guide is a list of *many* of the most common writing problems. You can skim those pages and maybe choose one which your particular child could use some work on. Read through it together and ask the child to edit their work with this skill in mind.
e. If you're still afraid you're under-teaching or over-teaching, WS does have a book called "Evaluating Writing" which gives examples of many different levels of writing & possible parent conversations about them.
f. There are tons of WS users on the MFW boards who love to chat

[dhudson]

Just a quick note to say that I agree with the ladies. WS is a complete writing program and has done great things for my son's writing. They are guided assignments and help the student to learn to evaluate their own writing.