WS - (Writing Strands) - Praise & descriptions, how it works

[Julie in MN]

Hi everyone: My 4th gr. dd is using the Writing Strands. We both find the author witty and the book interesting.

However, I'm just not sure its the right fit for us. We just finished #2, writing a paragraph, and dd could just not understand why the author suggests that you write your topic sentence last (this was not clear to me either).

My dd is a very creative writer and has been writing since she was 6. Of course, structuring a paragraph, punctuation, spelling, etc. always needs improvement, but her ideas and creativity are very good. It almost feels like I may be hindering her writing ability by some of the instructions. What are others experiences with WS? I certainly do not want her to loose her love of writing, and she doesn't "hate" the book, she just finds it difficult to follow the guidelines (or instructions) or writing from this particular curriculum. Any thoughts? Thanks much.

Tina,
Teaching writing to me is a very unique subject because it really cannot be done in a workbook with an answer key, nor can it be self-taught (I beg to differ with what Writing Strands & others say :o) . Rather I think of it as involving communication & discussion, with writing being an extension of that.

I talked several times with Mrs. Marks last year when we started Writing Strands. She is very willing to help. Unfortunately her husband has passed away. Anyways, I had already done several other things with my older dd. Of course I knew nothing is perfect for everyone. But the things I really like about WS, after discussing it with Mrs. Marks, were:

1. It gives some structure to your child's writing progress, where they focus on very specific skills. They expand your child's writing skills, but just one at a time.

2. They suggest only "correcting" or focusing on certain things in each assignment, so the whole thing isn't just ripped to shreds.

3. They work on skills using the child's own writing, not someone else's writing samples.

4. There are enough samples in the book that the child who does not know what to write about could just work with the models given.

5. They are very slim books, which to me means there is a lot of room for flexibility and adaptation. All your time is not taken up by repetitive exercises (busywork).

If your daughter wants to write a particular story, she could even use Writing Strands to work on that same story all year. WS will take her thru making a good paragraph, writing descriptions of scenery, describing characters, planning the action or events, logical order, point of view, etc. One mom suggested to me that the same level can be used again the next year, in a different way.

Usually the kids who like to write stories are very good at writing events. But they may need some work on learning that characters must be introduced, settings described, and logical order maintained. Especially from someone else's point of view.

I loved the WS lesson where my son and I each looked out of the same window and described what we saw. He just couldn't believe that I saw NOTHIng of what he saw (he could see the neighbor's house in bright snow, I could see our garage in dark shadows)!

I did NOT love WS lesson 7 where you described a room with seemingly endless lists, but after some discussion, I adapted it and ds learned a lot. He would say something was "on the left" so I would say, "I get it!" & draw it on the ceiling on our white board (hee hee :o) .

Sorry it takes me so long to say anything! I hope you find what is right for dd. Julie

[MJP]

If you basically like writing strands, just adapt it. If your child wants to write the topic sentence first, it won't destroy the writing assignment. I slightly change most of the assignments.

For example. this week they were supposed to complete an assignment in 1st person that the author had already started about a dog. I had my children write their own accounts in first person as their own pets, a leopard gecko and a chinchilla.

I do not usually have the children read the book and I usually assign differing amounts than the book suggests, but we have experienced success and have nice writing samples using Writing Strands 3 and 4.

[Tina]

Thanks for taking the time to respond. I'm not ready to get rid of the writing strands yet. I'm just new to using it too, I guess. And, being the type of person who "likes to complete things as directed", sometimes its difficult for me to adapt the lesson plans. My dd thinks the writer of this book is pretty funny and she catches most of the humor in her writing (you know, there's no such thing as a one word sentence. Really!--my dd thought that was funny, also the fact that she used an exclamation point after saying only use them once a year! ha, ha)

Today, dd had better success with the lesson than the previous one, and I guess that's okay. Some skills may be harder than others. And I have found that the ILL has gone along with some of the learning in WS. For example, when we did the paragraph lesson in WS, that week we also came across the same kind of lesson in ILL. Dd had to divide a selection into four different paragraphs. The skill of being able to keep one main point or idea in the paragraph being taught in ILL, while we were working on our own paragraphs in WS.

It works for now. Time will tell if this is a good fit or not. thank you for taking the time to respond. I have come to respect and admire all of the ladies with whom I can ask questions and receive honest answers of your own experiences. I'm thankful for this board and the wealth of advice here. Blessings....

[Julie in MN]

Hi Christy,
Here is a quote I wrote a while ago about why I like Writing Strands. I still agree that for us, it is just enough & not too much. Whenever I pick up a different writing book, I seem to open to the page that says, "Write 500 words on XXX." I close the book right away & run back to Writing Strands :o)

Although WS sometimes is imperfect, I do like it. My older dd could write a decent sentence so I just thought I could teach writing myself. But the directions she went in with my attempts free writing, journaling, & such just weren't very productive. I probably should have organized some specific lessons, but I was a newbie.

WS has been a great improvement for my younger ds. It gives him a direction. They teach perspective, tense, description, logical sequencing of a plot, and so on. This has been helpful to me. And the lessons aren't too huge.

Also, I try not to chain myself to the curriculum -- we adjust it as needed. Sometimes I bring a WS assignment to the gals on the boards & get a fresh perspective (thanks Tina!)!

Writing is a hard skill to teach, because true writing can have no answer key. Writing Strands gives me just enough guidance in real writing -- not too much controlled workbook that never transfers to real writing, and not too much freedom that doesn't develop new skills. But I am sure there are other good things out there that work especially well for particular children.

Just thought I'd share from the good experiences with WS camp :o)
julie

We used level 3 in 3rd grade, and level 4 in 4th & 5th grade. We will start level 5 this fall.

[sewardmom]

I had a similiar experience as Crystal had in thinking I could hand over the book to my children and they would write well. I have since purchased the Evaluating Writing book and have found it very helpful to me. It reminds me of how to approach my children's writing (attitude wise...) and helps with balancing my expectations.

Taking a week (or a few days sometimes) so I could think about and pray about critiquing their writing projects has been a good thing for us.

One line I remember reading several times now that has stuck with me was : don't expect your children's writing to be perfect right away - remember how long it took us to be perfect? Ouch! - Unfortunately, I need those reminders! LOL

Seriously, the book has been a blessing to me and helped me not to 'be afraid' of evaluating their writing.
Terri

[Archiver2]

Posted: Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:39 pm

WS has been a challenge for us and it took me a while to realize that I must use it as a tool (which it is) and an aid to guide dd in her writing skills, not as the teacher itself. We have been able to work thru our challenges with it and are committed to sticking with it, at least to the end of Book 3. Still have two lessons to go.

WS seemed to go along well with what dd is learning in ILL (dialogues, using quotations correctly, and lots of other skills that seemed to be used in WS and then not too long after that in ILL and vice-versa).

[Jenn in NC]

I value Writing Strands because it just focuses on particular writing skills that may not be caught by free writing or other writing within a curriculum.

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:13 am

I really appreciate this particular aspect of the WS curriculum. My son really needed the very specific instruction provided by WS.

[cbollin]

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:31 am

My experience with WS level 3 is that even though it is written "to the child", it works so much better to use WS WITH your child instead of just handing over the book. Maybe I am the only one who did it the harder way, but just in case I'm not..... WS 3 began to work better for us when we used it as a guided script together.

We like WS level 4 too, with a tiny exception. We skipped exercise 1. But so far in the first part of WS 4 we are liking it a lot. It has outlining skills (in spite of what WS says about itself, they teach something very similar to a key word outline just like IEW), book report/synopsis and continues with focused and structured skill lessons that can be applied in all kinds of writing. I like the extra bits of language arts instruction that are part of WS 4.

just my take on it.
-crystal

Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:45 am

I call Writing Strands the Karate Kid of writing programs. Daniel-son didn't want to do Wax on, Wax Off, or paint the fence or Sand the floor. But it was really helping him all along. I've been happy watching my oldest in the past few weeks enjoy writing a short book in the "fan fiction" genre. I smiled and almost cried with joy from reading one paragraph where she really developed the characters' thoughts. I knew that lesson had come from the practice that we had in WS, and at that point I didn't care what was misspelled. The content was there -- the mechanics, she'll revise it later.

(more mom "brag" time here..... It's a joy to watch our children progress in skills, isn't it?)
And there was a lesson in WS 4 with book reviews/reports that really made my daughter have to stay on topic and get to the point. Oh my goodness -- she enjoys telling us all about her favorite TV show, but can't get things across to us. And that WS 4 book report lesson became a model for her to learn. I know she struggles with organizing thoughts and all of that.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 9:13 am

Writing --- Well, I really like Writing Strands. Book 4 is really good. I like book 3 too, but book 4 clicks (even lesson 1 isn’t as bad as people think.) I like that it made my daughter have to do stuff on her own and be creative while learning things such as writing a 5 paragraph essay. We were able to use WS 4 in a very logically and orderly method to make her brain do it. But more than that, it pushed her to *have* to follow rules. We used IEW’s SWI program for a while and it was too much structure and too much rules to follow, and didn’t allow her creative side to emerge. She could easily follow all of the rules --- but it was a short term fix for us. When we went back to Writing Strands, we got the mix needed.

Writing is a process that will be learned over time. Our children need to learn to talk about what they read and hear. Then learn that they need to retell it. Then write about it. Usually writing skills will be "lower" than their oral story telling skills, even with advanced nerdy kids :-) My dh didn't really take off with his writing skills until high school level. Then in his post graduate school days he became a well respected writer for getting grants and such for the university. so -- hang in there, a little at a time, even our types can do this.

No matter what you use for writing instruction and assignments, it will take practice and time to develop those skills in all kinds of writing assignments.

-crystal

[dhudson]

Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 2:39 pm

I have found that Writing Strands, which is not included in the package but recommended and available through MFW, has been great training for writing. It is not too difficult but trains the student to know how to write.

[cbollin]

Is Writing Strands user friendly for both teacher and student?

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008

Writing Strands Level 3 --- user friendly? sorta. It is not as friendly as book 4. The key thing with WS is to not hand the book over to your child for independent learning. Read it to your child and coach them. Some parts of the book will seem a bit odd because you might think "why do we have to do this assignment???" Don't let your kids hear you say that of course. When that happens, just remind yourself that the lesson has a bigger reason behind it than might be obvious at first.

One such lesson has the child listing furniture in a room in a very organized way. The lesson is mostly about practicing writing a description so that your reader can see the room even if they are not there or have been to your house. There is actually a similar writing lesson in ILL. So it's a good exercise, even if you scratch your head while teaching it. It's about getting details as well as organizing a paragraph into a report.

WS level 4 --- very user friendly. I personally skipped lesson 1 in that book b/c it was odd. But the rest of the book is great.

WS is a very structured program to practice skills of writing. I call it the Karate Kid of writing programs. Remember that movie? Daniel had to do all of these odd jobs (wax the car, paint the fence, sand the floor) and it made no sense to him to learn Karate. But then his mentor calls out the moves and it all made sense. Writing Strands Level 3 is like that.

And with any writing, it is ok to help our students as much as they need to learn the skills.

MFW schedules WS about 2 days per week so that you can get through a level in a year. Usually the book is not on the same day as ILL so you aren't doing too much writing in one day. But there will be times that you'll adjust an ILL lesson. That way you hopefully won't be too bogged down in the week.
-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:17 pm

Another thing that is user-friendly about WS is that the lessons are usually very specific and narrowed down. I've picked up too many writing books and opened them right to the page that says, "Write 500 words on..." My ds would never recover...! There are exceptions but you can adapt as needed or ask for help over here on the boards in those few cases.

Oh, and we had a little fun with that furniture lesson. Ds would describe something & I'd draw it on the marker board using every misunderstanding I could -- drawing things on the ceiling etc :o) "Point taken, mom, the chair is on the FLOOR!"

[Winni]

Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:33 pm

Well...we, too, had set down Writing Strands (3) because my 12yo dd didn't care for it much. I purchased another writing program, and she has been doing pretty well with it. After I read something Crystal had said, though, I just couldn't get my mind off of it (Holy Spirit nudging? I think so :o)

I picked it back up yesterday and started reading where we had left off, and all I noticed was how similar it was to our new writing program. "Why did I buy a new program?", I thought.

I think I may be letting my 12yo dd have a little too much decision in her schoolwork choices. I do want her to have a say...but I think I've been giving in to her "this is boring" too much. :o)

I stopped using SO many things just because my daughter wasn't thrilled by them. I even SOLD God and The History of Art...what a dope! I am going to buy it again. Even if the children destest the lessons, the education in that book is great.

Please understand, if my children ever got REALLY upset about a particular homeschool product we were using then I would definitely rethink it. However, I can't expect them to LOVE everything and every part of everything either, ya know? I mean, they don't LOVE brushing their teeth, but hey...tough tooties. They don't LOVE cleaning, but hey, neither do I! You get the point. Many times the unpleasant things can be rewarding in the future. :o) I don't even believe that God & The History of Art, Writing Strands 3, Streams of Civilization, or The Children's Homer (I was going to subsitute ALL of those, can you believe it!?) are unpleasant at all.

Anywho, just wanted to comment about that. I've got to go and get ready to sell a few items now. Bye! (giggle)

[TurnOurHearts]

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:13 pm
Post subject: LA (WS) archive thank-yous...

Well ladies, I have just spent a little time in the Language Arts archives. As I begin to think about our next school year, the only thing I'm intimidated by (besides pulling off the OT feasts, which my buddy Brae is helping get over!) is Writing Strands. My oldest , as many of you know, is very math-minded and is a perfectionist. When I think about doing writing lessons with him, I get a HUGE knot in my stomach! While I have looked through the WS book a bit, I didn't do it while looking at how it's scheduled in the CtG TM or after reading any suggestions from Marie that may be there.

But, as I was doing a bit of perusing here, I thought, "Hmmm...I'll just look at the LA archives." I'm so glad I did! There are too many to remember or name ~ THANK YOU for taking the time to relate your experiences with Writing Strands. I feel soooo much more confident heading into next year. Bless you, bless you, bless you!!!!!!

Gratefully ~

[cbollin]

would it be better to switch them all into WS level 3 so we are all on the same page?-

Well uh... that's good question. Not sure I have a good answer.
WS 3 can be used with children up to about 7th grade. Writing is an art that you can expand expectations based on skill level and age.
If you have all of them in the same book, it might be better to have the oldest work ahead in WS and not be tied to the pace of younger kids depending on the dynamics of your crew..

Given their ages, Writing Strands will *not* be best used "independently" with those ages (in my opinion and experience). One of the problems that people run into with using WS is this idea that it is supposed to be handed over to a student and done by themselves. (well, I'm guilty of that at any rate.) It is written toward the student, but it works better when you think of that writing toward the student as a guided script to help you coach and explain the assignments.

I really like WS now. ;)
Part of the WS approach involves parent as encourager along the writing process especially in the earlier books. My 7th grader can work more independently in WS 5. Even then, we still coach her and act as "editor" for her writing.

WS 3 covers the following kinds of writing skills for children in about grades 4-7 age range. (I don't guarantee this is a complete list, though)
*basic sentence structure and how to expand a sentence
*basic paragraph structure
*putting together multiple paragraphs to have a long research paper based on things in your house instead of based on a social studies assignment. (The so called dreaded lesson 7 in WS 3.)
*adding description to your writing
*organizing your writing (including some fundamentals of outlining)
*short story development, liking character, events, dialogue writing, etc.
*tenses
*point of view (1st and 3rd person and that stuff)

*****
one of those odd moments for me. I remember hearing that a WS rep told someone that WS doesn't cover "outlining". I'm not sure why WS would say that. I think it is covered in many assignments where you have to organize your thoughts and lists before writing. But between the other lessons in MFW language arts (ILL, etc.) and WS, it is definitely covered. I can't imagine why WS says it doesn't cover it??? I guess they mean they don't cover making a key word outline from an existing paragraph in a social studies source text?????

-crystal

[cbollin]

Is this hard to grade and teach? I am not confident with my ability to grade my childrens writing assignments. Maybe its just fear on my part that I won't teach them the correct way to write. My English teachers did a terrible job preparing me for college writing. I had to figure it out myself. I don't want that for my kidos. It makes me think I need to go with a writing program that I can send off to be graded. I do know that mfw recommendations are awesome though. Maybe, I should just give writing strands a try and stop stressing out so bad about it?

With all due respect to programs where you send in assignments and let some other homeschooling mom "grade" it...... (for mega bucks a year) You can do this Sandi. (((hugs)))

If you go with Writing Strands, consider buying Evaluating Writing. It was written by the WS author to help parents know how to coach a child in writing. We don't "grade writing". We evaluate and coach writing.

Or, may I suggest as a parent resource: book 1 of Igniting Your Writing. I really like that book's ability to give homeschooling parents an easy to do checklist guide for coaching and improving writing. It might help you to know how to do it.

now, that's better than spending $300 a year to have someone do that for you.

Time for my usual links to 2 of my favorite articles on Coaching Writing:
the 4 Deadly Errors of teaching writing: common mistakes and options for teachers
http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Ho ... es/192.php
and
It's so Awkward!
http://www.thehomeschoolmagazine.com/Ho ... es/131.php

In high school time, MFW will have necessary "hand holding" for us and our students in those high school writing assignments.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Oh, one of my favorite topics! Here are some previous threads. Maybe you've seen them. I'm sure to have had something to say
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=1088
[and above]

I agree with your thinking -- kids need a person to help them with writing. In other words, it's impossible to hand kids a workbook & expect them to become better writers. That's the first thing -- they need one-on-one adult guidance.

The second part is whether Writing Strands will give *you* enough guidance. Of course the standard answer is that it's inexpensive, so why not give it a try before you decide (knowing of course that the Hazells recommend it).

I'd like to give you a "preview" of how it works. My son is in the middle of Level 5, so this isn't an exact comparison, but WS really cycles through skills at gradually higher levels, so when you do Level 3 assignments they will be something similar but easier I guess you could say.

Ds's last lesson in WS was lesson 10. It was very short (3 days). Here's how *I* looked at it:

1. Carefully read together the things he will "learn" in this lesson. They're listed very clearly at the top of the page... "It may take you three days to learn..." This lesson is about writing dialogue and changing tenses.

2. Then we read the lesson. The first day is often just reading. There is time to discuss both of your interpretations of what you will be working on in the days to come.

3. The lesson pretty much always includes sample writing. A timid writer can basically imitate the sample. Don't be afraid to let your child almost copy it. Some kids will need to follow models for a long time. A fearless writer like my youngest can take the sample and change it to his heart's desire. He can change it even more than the book seems to "allow" -- as long as we can look back at the goals we read at the top of the first page and see those in his writing. Believe me, I've had both types of writers in the same family!

This particular lesson gave a "picture" of a specific situation (an airport with a time zone line through the middle) and the tense would have to change back & forth a lot of times (past, present, & future depending on where he's standing), and it would be all dialogue so we could work on how to write direct quotes and all of that. However, my youngest had his own "picture" in his own little mind, so he changed things around in the assignment. This was fine as long as (a) he kept the tense changing idea so we could work on tense and (b) he kept the dialogue situation so we could work on punctuating dialogue (and continue working on the skill from the previous lesson, where he learned that more advanced writing rarely uses "he said" or any other identification of the speaker, and yet it must be clear who is speaking at all times).

4. When I am evaluating his writing, I have several resources in WS:
a. Always go back to the little list of things being taught in the particular lesson -- at the top of the page.
b. You will be aware of what lessons have been previously taught (even in previous levels), and can provide reminders about those skills.
c. There is almost always a sample piece of writing in the lesson. Remember that the sample is there to help you "picture" what your child "might" do with this lesson. The book can be used with several different grade levels. The sample isn't there to criticize or intimidate. Use the sample to help you teach. And again, don't be afraid to let your child almost copy it, or to let your child swing far and wide away from it -- as long as the focus list at the top of the page is still being worked on.
d. In the back of the WS guide is a list of *many* of the most common writing problems. You can skim those pages and maybe choose one which your particular child could use some work on. Read through it together and ask the child to edit their work with this skill in mind.
e. If you're still afraid you're under-teaching or over-teaching, WS does have a book called "Evaluating Writing" which gives examples of many different levels of writing & possible parent conversations about them.
f. There are tons of WS users on the MFW boards who love to chat

[dhudson]

Just a quick note to say that I agree with the ladies. WS is a complete writing program and has done great things for my son's writing. They are guided assignments and help the student to learn to evaluate their own writing.

[Julie in MN]

For anyone who grapples with trying to understand the Writing Strands system, there is now a free audio on their website that you can listen to. It's a whole convention speech by the author of WS (who is now deceased).

The link is at the bottom of this page:
http://www.writingstrands.com/about-the-author.asp

I actually asked them to offer one of his speeches for sale, in order to help folks understand the goals and methods of this program. They didn't have one, so I sent them a convention tape that I had They went to the trouble of finding a way to convert it to MP3 and have provided it for free on their website.

I felt this particular speech would be a bit risky, because he does tell silly jokes about his family & shares personal views which some might not agree with (for instance, I warn you that he doesn't like formal grammar ). But my hope is that the whole "method" of using WS will shine thru. The author has "strands" that he is building, and perfection is not the goal so much as building the skills along those strands. I personally think his books do this in a very efficient way and I'd love for more folks to feel comfortable teaching writing using this easy-to-use program. His examples on the audio, comparing writing to cooking & then dumping it down the garbage disposal (not learning anything from it), vs. cooking & then critiquing every last detail of an apple pie (discouraging the writer), really help me keep my goals in mind when teaching writing.

Julie

[cbollin]

I like this talk too. cute on the part "please turn the tape over". 1998?

It really changes how you hear the lessons in WS after listening to him. I know that not everyone likes WS or his humor, but we (my dh , oldest and I) sat listening to this talk tonight and laughed a lot.
He says the things that I'm scared to write because people can't hear my voice.
"comparing writing to cooking & then dumping it down the garbage disposal, vs. cooking & then critiquing every last detail of an apple pie, really help me keep my goals in mind when teaching writing." yep. I liked those parts.

Thank you Julie.

-crystal

[ManyXsBlessed]

I didn't realize this person had passed on My kids will be bummed.

[Crystallea]

Just listened to the tape. loved it. I enjoyed his humor, am excited to see where this program will take us this year. I don't know how to teach writing, have dreaded it and am relieved that this program will take us through the steps. Thanks for going the extra mile to send the cassette to the company, I, for one, appreciate. BTW--I can diagram a mean sentence, but am not a creative writer type. (In fact, felt a little pride bubble get popped during this tape) :D
Crystal (the 2nd one)