Math - Should I challenge a child who's advanced in math?

[cbollin]

Even though dd reads at 2nd/3rd level, I did MFWK with her last year because she is so young and needed to learn to write lower case better. We are going to use MFW1 this year and use all the phonics to reinforce basics and spelling.

I thought she'd be fine with math at that level, but after looking through the CBoM, I realize that there are very few things that she hasn't already mastered.

Should I keep it simple and let her have fun for another year, or get something more challenging? She could use a bit more work on time, money and measurement. I think I'm so excited to see what SM really is, that I just want it.

TIA --Cyndi

This is my opinion.
Work on life skills and service with her math talent. If she has really mastered addition and subtraction without and with regrouping -- with 3 digit numbers, understands measurements, basic geometry, money, fractions.... well, then maybe it's time to rethink a few things about what to do with all of that. And she is talented with reading.

Some ideas to toss around: Can you help use her gifts to nurture a love for serving others at this age with whatever talent she has? Do you have shut in's at your church? Perhaps you could have your child read out loud to them. They will enjoy it. Let her read from the Bible reader in MFW 1st and let her draw a big picture for them.

Can she bake and/or cook? Math is used all the time in that (you set have to set a clock/timer, you have fractions, you have to read a recipe, plan it all). Take a nutritious meal to them and stay for a little while and let them tell stories to you (I could get all teacher sounding and say --- it's oral history at it's best).

Is grandma or grandpa in a nursing home/retirement community? Go read out loud over there and leave pictures for them.

What about planting flower bulbs in the fall and having to plan the gardening needs for all of that? Is there some hobby that she could turn into a little business or something? (My oldest crochets and cross stitches and then sells some things as Christmas and holiday ornaments. That way she has a way to give to Bible translation. )

Start thinking in that direction and pray for what the Lord would have your family to do with the academic talents He has given her.

Yeah.... enjoy the complete book of math, and have fun with the logic puzzle books in MFW 1st. She's 5 y.o. There are lots of colorful pictures in CBoM.

--crystal

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:00 am

1st grade math -- try the money/store games (use real money too) that are in the book. Should be the pages right before Day 1 daily notes for the program.

some of it will be easy --- do work on the place value activities anyway. Look at the 100 chart as you make it and encourage him to see patterns (oh.... if I jump 2 rows, then I've jumped 2 groups of tens to go from 13 to 33)

Complete Book of Math -- is a 1st and 2nd grade math book. so if he test late in 1st grade, it's still ok. But this book is the supplementary book to the hands on stuff. Are you saying that even the two and three digit addition and subtraction with regrouping is easy for him?

enjoy the graphing and measurement and all of that. When it comes to clocks -- if he can already read clocks, do things like what time will it be in 25 minutes? Was time was it 25 minutes ago? how long does it take to eat breakfast ---- 15 minutes or 15 hours?

I'm in the crowd that says don't rush ahead too fast based on age and to do more with the fun stuff when they are younger to expand and go a bit deeper with the topics.

-crystal

[Poohbee]

For Cyndi~

I will be teaching MFW1, as well this year. My dd is not in the same place as yours. We will be working through the math in MFW1 as it is written. However, there are a few other things I plan to add, and I thought maybe they could be useful to you, too.

Has your daughter used a geoboard yet? I plan to incorporate a geoboard in our study of geometry, and tangrams, as well. Both are wonderful problem-solving tools. The CBoM tells you how to make a geoboard, but you can purchase a plastic one for only around $3 or $4 online or at a teacher supply store. You can get books containing activities you can do with a geoboard, too. So, with a geoboard, tangrams, and pattern blocks, there are some great hands-on, problem-solving activities that are fun for kids at many different age and ability levels. When I taught 5th grade in the public schools, even my 5th graders loved using geoboards.

Also, I'm really excited about incorporating more children's lit. into our math studies. I am a children's lit. addict :-) and I was so pleased to see all of the recommended children's books for math in the TM for MFW1.

The Complete Book of Math has some really wonderful, fun ideas for hands-on activities. So, with all of that, plus the ideas in the 1st TM, this could be a really fun and relaxing year in math for your daughter, and you can add more difficult or more challenging skills as you deem appropriate.

Just a few ideas for you. :-)

In Christ,

[Cyndi (WA)]

Jen,
Thanks for your advice! Those are great ideas.

Crystal,
That's the feeling I kept getting -- she's only 5! Far too young to "push" IMO, but I didn't want to be holding her back, either. I will keep praying! She LOVES to bake/cook and would watch cooking shows while playing with her dishes all day if I would let her. What a great idea to bake treats or meals together and take them to a shut in. Maybe we could fix those soups- or cookies-in-a-jar by measuring in all the ingredients and give them to someone different every week (SS teacher, etc.) with a handwritten recipe by dd. I'm thinking of all kinds of things now . . . thank you for your awesome advice!
Thanks!!! --Cyndi

[NOTE: See the end of the story below, dated July 2008 ]

[Lainie]

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2007 1:30 am

Ds really loves math though so on the math sheets that came with the curriculum, I have him turn the sheet over and do his measuring there (we switched to centimeter once we ran out of "inches" room) and I have him write 4-5 more math problems for the number of the day. I challenged him to write problems that weren't "15+1=16 or 16+0=16". Using his cuisenaire rods to work them out first, he then writes problems like "9+7, 8+8, 11+5=16 etc...".

I don't really add extra things to the curriculum, I just take what is already there and make it more challenging IF he is looking for more. Usually he would rather ride his bike or play catch with grandpa or play with Lego's if it's raining. :)

[Lucy Robertson]

I am using 1st grade with a child who did 1st grade in public school last year (she was a young 1st grader and I wanted to work on phonics more so I am doing 1st again.....) I love the program and the extra phonics has been great, she is now reading some easier chapter books and the phonics is extra review for her.

Math is total review for her. We read the books, do the hands on activities but the Complete Book of Math seems way too easy. I give her the pages that I think she would benefit with the extra practice and the other pages I have given to my Kindergartener because they are so easy, she can do them. I am a little concerned because the math program repeats itself and she seems to be grasping all the concepts very easily so far (we are on day 29). Should I add something for her? Go ahead and start singapore? or just get an extra workbook for practice?

I am comfortable with the phonics pace and 1st grade pace so I want that to stay the same and then plan on starting Adventures. I love MFW and the gentleness of it but when you have a child that wants to be sitting at a desk to do more work, I'm not sure what I should do
Sherry

Dear Sherry,

I am glad you like MFW. I know you were so excited to get started. It is nice to have your "problems" as they are not struggling. Here are just some thoughts I had about your questions.

1. Are you working on math facts? These do not have to be mastered before beginning Singapore math, but is something that is begun during first grade math. I notice you are right before coming to addition and subtraction for the first time in the yellow pages. I would see how she does. Pages 16 and 17 will give you ideas for this.
2. How is she doing on the daily numbers sheet. Remember in the last step you can begin having her make up equations as well as introduce the < and > signs.(page 11 and top of 12) Also remember to have her do number 5 too.
3. You can also use the list on pages 8 and 9 as a guide. If she is able to do this things she is ready to move on. Maybe she needs to spend the rest of this semester working on a few skills and then she is ready to move on.
4. If she did first grade math last year and did well she may just be ready for 2nd grade math and that is o.k. So you keep working on math facts, give her a Singapore math placement test, and begin in Singapore.

These are my thoughts about it. I am sure others will have some ideas for you to. This will give you some things to think about.

Lucy

[Cyndi (WA)]

This is just my humble opinion, but yea! that she's grasping concepts easily! Sounds like the phonics are perfect for her, and she's one little girl that is going to think that Math is easy! That's awesome. I would embrace that and keep following the plan. Sure, you can start something else if she's totally ready for it, but if it were me, I wouldn't rush it.

Is your dd counting by 2's, 5's and 10's? (Maybe you could add in 3's, 4's, etc.) Does she have her math facts (addition and subtraction) memorized? Can she add 3 numbers to equal 18? Can she add and subtract two-digit numbers? Understand place value? How about time and money -- does she count money? Tell time? Read the calendar? If those things are all too simple and boring to her, then maybe you need to supplement with something. We didn't - we just kept reinforcing the basics with my dd. I figure the early years of Math are mostly reviewing the basics, anyway, and all the hands-on activities and repeating the same concepts helped cement some of those things. (And my dd has not mastered all of those yet.)

If I had it to do over, I wouldn't rush through anything or supplement with anything. My dd would have thanked me for that!

[cbollin]

First Grade math –- start to play more of the games that are listed in the manual. That will be a lot of fun and school for both kids to do together. Remember that the Complete Book of Math is supplement to those activities. Work on that Sunshine Café and other money stuff. Even if the addition/subtraction things are easy, time to apply it to money, measurement and clocks and just expand a lot of that in normal settings without it being solely on starting Singapore just yet.

Another Reason for not rushing through math or phonics even when it is easy --- you might accidentally skip a skill that you might have wished you hadn't skipped. I'm thinking of Julie in MN (and my) experiences with that on alphabetical order.

and Lucy and Cyndi covered the rest about math :-)
-crystal

[Cyndi (WA)]

Should I let this be an easy review year for him in math just to reinforce the basics or should I go ahead and start him with Singapore? I should also say that I had him tested the first of June (even though it's not required until he's 7) just so I would have a good baseline of his abilities. In math he tested at an almost 2nd grade level.

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:12 pm

You could go through all the math topics in the TM once - using all the recommendations, and then evaluate if you want to start Singapore at that point or continue on with MFW1 math as written for the second half of the year.

That was my plan at the beginning, and I ended up sticking with doing math according to the TM.

[Lainie]

Posted: Tue Jul 29, 2008 11:53 pm

Hi Angie,
Here is my mistake. I casually looked through the Complete Book of Math and decided it was "too easy" for ds. I bought Singapore 1A and 1B. He whipped through 1A before December and I thought, "Yea, good decision."

Well, not really. Although he did some of the Complete Book of Math, he didn't do all of it. The Hazells assign very specific sections on CBoM to make sure your 1st grader has a good overall math foundation. Because I didn't understand it all at the time, my ds ended up with "holes" in his math that he wouldn't have had I just went with recommendations FIRST and supplemented with extras after. I did it backwards.
So when he did his testing after the year was over his math scores actually went down a little (93%) which is still very good but I had some 'splaining to do with dh [that was in my best Ricky Ricardo voice].

So, all that said, if you supplement, make sure it is actually adding to what MFW recommends and not replacing to make sure you don't miss anything.

Side note: This year we are doing all MFW recommendations for all subjects. I figure until I am using the curriculum fully and doing everything assigned, I've got no business buying extra stuff that they don't need which I probably won't finish anyway!

[mgardenh]

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 12:01 am

ROTFLOL at the Ricy Ricardo and Lucy reference. My dd tests gifted in math and I just do the grade she is. Yes her understanding is good and the math is easy but I don't want to push and make it not fun.

[Winni]

Posted: Wed Jul 30, 2008 6:08 am

Ewww...all of this reminds me of my now 9yo dd getting stuck in math last year. Gosh, I almost forgot. We were doing the 1st grade math and I thought it was getting too easy and that she could just go ahead and start in Singapore 1A. Well, like someone said earlier, she did kinda zoom right through that.

However, she got very stuck after a while due to the fact that we hadn't done enough hands on with a placement chart. She also could have used some more work on math facts, although we practice those quite often now and she is doing fine.

Definitely don't rush...they might get stuck later.

[dhudson]

Hi Everyone! MFW 1st is going great, but something just hit me a little bit ago. My bright Kindergartners will be finishing up with MFW 1st this year; and are advanced in math. Next year I am not sure if I should go on to Singapore. I know Singapore is a good program, but I really like the living books, daily activities, with a little bit of workbook that is included in MFW 1st. I would like to continue this type of study with my then first graders; could I just by the next level of the complete book of math for them and schedule a week per topic with them, but mainly use the hands on activities listed in the "living books" available on each topic? I would also continue skip counting practice, addition facts practice (using games as much as possible), and the number of the day. Does anyone have any suggestions for next year. I would like to do math as cheaply as possible. My children are also on the younger side of K- my son turned 5 in September. I also wondered how long does MFW recommend the informal method of math; would it be acceptable for 2nd grade as well.
Brenda

I did MFW1st with 5 year olds and then moved them into Singapore at 6yrs old and they have done great with it. They are now 7 and in 3a and LOVE math! They ask to go ahead and do more pages. We do make sure we play lots of math games on the computer and many of the fun card games that are math oriented (Zeus on the Loose, LOOT etc) as well as do daily drilling in add, sub, mul t, and division. My twins tested into 2a with Singapore but I put them in 1b just to make sure they would understand everything and it has worked out great.

I understand the issue of making sure your bright kids are challenged but not pushing them so far that they hate school or a subject. Singapore is a relatively short time commitment a day as well as being colorful and fun. We use lots of manipulatives ( m&m's and lego's are our favorities oh and use money for base ten stuff) and I use the Singapore textbook as a starting place and make the examples into hands-on examples. MFW has great daily plan guide that helps to make things hands-on in the younger years.

[RB]

I just happened to look at the Math book from Ruth Beechick's 3 R's series this morning...hadn't looked at it for over a year. I found it interesting to see how much overlap there was, in terms of philosophy, with the math in MFW K and 1st. Ruth Beechick actually recommended waiting to start a more formal Math program until 3rd grade for most kids. I think of how many of us start workbooky math in K (myself included with my first two) and miss opportunities for a more hands-on approach. Anyway, her little book has lots of great ideas for games and activities which might be helpful after completing MFW 1st if you want to wait on Singapore.

[homemommy83]

Thank you RB for your response. I think I have read books by her, but it has been a few years. I just thought that if the boys had taught themselves so much already, with a little bit of direction and review of addition facts/subtraction facts and through games and books they could continue to grow at a developmentally appropriate level without required workbooks. I like the idea of using the Complete book of math again to supplement because of the varied activities found in the first one. I thought that then I could start the Singapore in 2nd grade or possibly wait another year if I see great improvements using these informal methods. Thanks again!
Brenda

[Julie in MN]

Hi Everyone, I am so excited to be beginning MFW in a couple of weeks. The one thing I am concerned with is ds is a whiz at math. He comes from a family of engineers (dh's side. Dh is a pastor, though ) And just for fun one day, I had him do the 1A placement test on the Singapore site. The direction said it should take aprx an hour. Sitting on the couch with me, ds completed this test in about 20-25 minutes. He got about 80-85% on the test.

At home, he is already (for fun) adding and subtracting numbers up to 18 (sometimes further), can count to 500, can tell time, can count money..... He will dump his piggy bank in the kitchen to 'teach' his sister how to separate coins, what their value is, etc. He loves word problems, even at this age, b/c we make them fun for him. Such as when I am cooking or at the grocery store, I will just create one and ask him to figure it out. This is one thing I LOVED about his K class -- only 9 students and they kept wanting to learn more, so the teacher just went with it.

So, all of that to ask....what should I do about math, if anything? I have the Super workbook, too. So, that should give him somewhat of a challenge. As well, still allowing us time to focus on penmanship, etc. as well as other fun things related to MFW curriculum/topics/activities, etc. I just would hate for him to be bored re-doing much of what he learned in K last year in Math and truly desire you MFW veterans to share your thoughts/ideas. I want to foster a LOVE for learning. Should I order Singapore 1A? Should we stick with the Super Math Workbook? Thanks so much for your advice, wisdom and encouragement.

Kinda quiet around here today. I'll just chat to keep you company until the experts chime in

1. Doing 1st doesnt mean you are holding your son back in math. It just means you're doing math in a way that makes sense to a first grader. Math on paper is the same as math off paper -- just looks different

2. Did you get the deluxe pattern blocks & workbooks? That will add to his 1st grade math, and there are also games and literature and more ideas in the manual.

3. *If* your son were to go on to 2nd grade math, then it would just mean taking the Singapore placement test as you've done. So you could always just purchase that "in case" you need it.

4. Since you've already got your order, why not start out the year as is and only add math as you see a need? You might do some of the 1st grade extras faster than most and by 2nd semester be ready for something else?

Here are some previous discussions from those who have been in your shoes:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3705
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4724

Enjoy your little learner!
Julie

[bunnytracks]

I agree with Julie. I would start out as is and if needed take a singapore placement test if more math is needed. Same with K go with your original plan and bump it up if you feel she is ready to go faster.