7-plus yrs old - Using MFW1 for older child's language arts

[Sue in MN]

Hello!
My 7 year old daughter is going to begin MFW1 in the fall...even though she would be (should be???) starting "2nd grade". I am new to homeschooling and I am fearful I am going to mess her up. OR should I start supplementing and start 3rd grade next year?? Is anyone else in this boat?

Please lend your sage advice!!
Love,
Rebecca in Minnesota
Mom to Lucy 7 and Vivienne 4

First of all in MN you don't have to attend school until you are 7, so having your dd in 1st grade is just fine. I would just do the MFW 1 as is and then decide if you have to change anything. Remember you are teaching the child not the book. Just lead her gently from where she is now to where you want her to go. Relax and enjoy the journey.

[cbollin]

Rebecca,
Ditto to the advice that Sue has given you. One of the benefits of homeschooling is that you can teach your child where they are and not hold them back. So, if you determine that your child is up one level in a subject and down in another, it is ok. You can always add library books on a subject that is of interest to your child in areas.

And no, you are not a nut. You are just beginning a journey.

crystal

[cbollin]

Hi, I am wondering if anyone has taken a child back to 1st Grade at almost 8. She is registered as a 2nd grader this year. Her reading is weak.

I was going to do ECC with her and my almost 11Yr. old. However David recommended doing 1st grade with her to get her reading more solid. I ordered it and am not sure I want to take her back that far. She is having a fit that it says 1st grade on the front. She was in 2nd grade in school last year.

Wouldn't it be easier to just do ECC and supplement with some phonics? Its our 1st year home schooling and Im confused. It just lookes too overwhelming to do ECC & MFW1st together!!
Danita

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 2:48 pm

I would use MFW 1st grade "just" for phonics/ reading instruction/language arts and go at the pace she needs to go with it. In the beginning, it will be a lot of review and you will probably zip through until you are at her skill level for new material. That's ok to adjust as you go.

And for all other things, keep her in ECC with older sibling. In other words, you won't be doing all of both programs.

Just for your re-assurance here.
1. I'm guessing that David told you the story that he had to teach the phonics (K and 1st) about 3 times with one of his sons.

2. The phonics in MFW 1st grade covers both 1st and 2nd grade phonics. Some phonics programs out there spread the material out from 1st to 2nd grade, but in MFW, it is all covered in the "first grade" book. I don't know how that would go over with your daughter if she knew that she'll zip through the first part of the phonics.

I wouldn't let the grade level on the book get you too worried. It is very common in both home and group school situations to have children who are at different "grade levels" in different subjects while all in the same age range. You'll find lots of 2nd graders who still need to finish all there is in the "learn how to read" stage, so don't let the name or level of a book determine it.

When we homeschool, we teach the child at the level they are needing. If she were in a group school they would probably put her in a extra help session for reading time too. It's ok. {hug}

Welcome to homeschooling and I don't think I said welcome to the board to you yet. So, welcome along!

--crystal

[Lucy]

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:10 pm

Ditto Crystals great comments and encouragement. It is doable, we all do different language arts with each child and MfW1 is really mostly language arts. You can do it!!

Blessings and hugs,
Lucy

[mom2boys]

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:39 pm

Hi Danita,

I am in a similar situation. I have two boys 7 & 10. Due to a new baby and some other health issues, we only got half way through my youngest son's LA program (not MFW) and ECC. So per David's suggestion, we are finishing up ECC and doing MFW 1st Phonics.

My children consider themselves 2nd and 5th graders. The second grader does not know what he is doing is 1st grade. I put a sticker over the words 1st Grade on the blue workbook - I put Learn To Read (you could also put Phonics). The bible notebook and reader do not have the words 1st grade on them. I threw away the first cover sheet that said 1st grade on the other worksheets. I just keep the TM folded to the page I am on so you we never see the cover. I know your daughter already knows but maybe these things would help her also.

We just finished day 19 and it has been mostly review so far, but a great confidence builder. So he does the MFW 1 LA, his own Math, and ECC with his older brother. So far it is working well.

In MFW 1, Wed. is suppose to be a light day/exploration/outside day and no LA is scheduled for that day. We do LA all 5 days so he will finish the MFW LA before the end of the year. He also reads 10 min. a day to me, since we haven't started the Bible Reader yet. We are currently reading Green Eggs and Ham so very simple books. I plan to have him continue reading books on his level and maybe some Explode the Code workbooks at the end of the year if I think he needs it.

I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and I hope something in my ramblings encourages you. I pray that God will give you the wisdom to make the best choices for your family, even if doesn't look like the "norm".

Blessings,
~Charlotte

[cbollin]

Would you use the bible notebook too or just the phonics workbook? Also what about spelling she is used to having spelling?

Thanks so much for your help!Im actually felling like this will be doable. Danita

[Editor's note: See 1/31/07 post below for "the end of the story"]

Posted: Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:03 pm

For spelling, use the words in the blue workbook as you go along. But only in the "top" section of the workbook page.

Example: on day 44 in the workbook, you'll notice there are 5 lines for words to be dictated. Those words were studied and learned how to read on day 42. On day 44, you are "supposed" to dictate the spelling.

If you think she has learned how to spell the words as she goes along, then use it as a spelling time. Otherwise use it as a time to reinforce the phonics taught two day prior and just call out the correct spelling for dictation. When my 2nd dd used MFW 1st grade, those dictations were her spelling time.

Those dictations are used for spelling and handwriting and built in review time for phonics.

The Bible reader Notebook: It is part of langauge arts because it is used for teaching composition skills. I would probably use it since it is there. Less work on me as a teacher to figure out what to do for a composition class. In exchange, I'd definitely balance it out with less writing from the ECC work.

The other thing that popped in my mind as I was typing is whether or not you would want to use the Proverbs memory verses. Those are intended as both memory verses and as handwriting practice. In ECC you have different verses that you are learning. But you could still use the worksheets from the 1st grade program for handwriting practice. Those are the supplemental pages in the green covered booklet of tear-off sheets. I don't know if the memory verses in ECC would fit on those pages or not.

-crystal

[Heidi]

Posted: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:49 am

My ds was 7-8 when he did MFW-1. My dd 6-7. It is a wonderful complete language program for any age. In fact, we are right now letting her finish MFW-1, and ds is only doing English, Math and Reading and Russian right now before we formally start the ECC together. If my dd needs review with reading, phonics - I would go back to MFW-1 with her in a heartbeat!

I think Crystal's advice is wonderful.

[cbollin]

I was wondering if I use only the phonics part of MFW1 with Josh (currently in 3rd grade 8.5yrs) how long would this take (since we still have his 3rd grade work to complete)? I guess basically I am wondering if it will improve his reading. He struggles in that area. I'm sure the first half will be easy for him. His writing is good.

If I do purchase it for Josh, I will also add in Caleb and Annette. Caleb I will have do the complete course of MFW1.

Posted: December 2006

I'm not sure that Josh will need the program. It would take a few minutes for him (10 or less --- depending on his writing ability). But... it couldn't hurt. Especially if you are planning to use it with other children. He'd be able to zip through a lot of it, which isn't a bad thing.

Here's an idea. here is a sample page from day 111 (of 160) for the mfw 1st grade program
http://www.mfwbooks.com/pdf/biblereader_p115.pdf

How do you think he'd do with that particular story for reading it out loud and being able to retell the story to you?

Just thinking out loud a bit, trying to help. (Remember, you can always call the mfw office and get their suggestions for pacing the program :)

-crystal

[Lucy]

Posted: December 2006

I agree with Crystal . I do not know if he needs it but if you are planning on using it with another child anyway then he could use the phonics portion easily without having to do any of the other lang. arts that goes with it. Another option would be to use the spelling that is reccommended for 2nd grade, Spelling by Sound and Sturcture, as a phonics review. I do not know how much he needs.

I would give the office a call and let them help you in deciding if this would be the best option for Josh.

Lucy

[beltran4christ]

Posted: December 2006

Well, I talked to David and basically he said the same thing that Crystal pointed out, "It couldn't hurt". It would be great review and most likely Joshua will finish it in 3 months. He also mentioned that I should not combine him with Caleb because of the age difference. Have Joshua start it before Caleb so he will see that he is ahead. We don't want Josh to feel like he is 'not' smart or anything like that.

They will sell me only the phonics portion of the extra student packet. Since Joshua's writing is good he said I didn't need the green book.
Blessings,

[melinda]

We are on week 20 of Adventures and yet my youngest is still having some problems in reading. David has recommended we stop and go back to 1st - UGH!

Can I do this over the summer, so we can continue with ECC next fall? I think he will fly through most of it but pick up and fill in the missing gaps.

I already held him back when we came home from PS - he should be 3rd grade this year, but is 2nd. I know that reading is paramount to the rest of his learning and it probably doesn't matter what the "grade level" is at this point, somewhere its bound to come out even.

Thanks.

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:29 am

You can do Adventures with the phonics portion of MFW1. That way, you'll be giving your youngest what he needs in terms of reading help (kind of like a unit study in phonics), but still stay on track with the rest of Adventures.

Or you can easily work on reading skills over the summer and pick up ECC in the fall. I really like the Bible reader and phonics pages in MFW. I had used another phonics program before switching to MFW and while the approach is similar, MFW incorporates the Bible. My children have thrived! Do you have access to someone who uses this program so you can see what all it entails?

[cbollin]

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:24 am

Debra,
To answer your question a bit here..... There are 160 days scheduled in MFW 1st grade. Each 5th day is an Exploration Day and doesn't have phonics scheduled.

The phonics lessons are covered from day 1-117. (from 117-160, there is review and other things, but the lessons to cover phonics are taught by then) Many of the lessons you will "breeze" through since he knows it already.

And remember, Marie's and David's 3rd child was a late to learn how to read child. Hang in there and listen to their advice on it. They're coming from the been there, done that side of it.

Hope that helps with your planning.
--crystal

[LSH in MS]

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 3:10 pm

If I were you I'd just do the phonics and Bible portions of MFW 1st with the reader and Bible notebook. I am doing that with my son. He does a little of RTR with us as well.

You could continue to use the Adventures science and History.

I don't do the exploration days in 1st, or the science or art or Math.
I do get some books on his level for book basket but you could probabaly just get Adventure books.

I love 1st for the phonics, writing exercises and Bible notebook. I think it's worth it just for that esp if you use it for multiple children.

[zook5]

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 6:30 pm

I am using just the phonics and Bible from 1st grade as well. She would be in 3rd grade in school this year too. We have her in 2nd grade this year.

She's doing ECC with brother, and uses 1st grade for LA. I use the words as spelling. We also skip the exploration days.
Danita

[LizCT]

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 9:20 pm

I am using MFW 1st with my 2nd grader this year. We are now cruising along and are almost to the end of the phonics portion of the program - it has helped tremendously to work through it with my daughter. She does not have older siblings, but I can see how she would really enjoy having the MFW 1 of her own, and also participating in Adventures. In our case, since she is the oldest, we will be starting Adventures when we finish the MFW 1st program.

I cannot say enough about how much she has learned - not only in terms of her reading, but also her knowledge of Old Testament history and the books of the Bible. She has not tired for even one moment of reading her Bible reader.

We are following the MFW 2nd grade Math recommendations - just finished Singapore 1A today - yeah!!! We are also very slowly moving through PLL, but we have put aside Spelling until she has had the chance to absorb her new phonics skills and expand her reading ability further.

I want to encourage you to not think of MFW 1st as a 1st grade program, but as an excellent phonics base for your son. I do find the 1st grade label on the cover to be hard to get over for a kid who thinks they are in 2nd grade. Maybe you can re-label that for him - with "Joshua's 2nd grade program" or something.

Liz in CT

[Tina]

Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 10:17 pm

Hi: I want to encourage you too. My ds is in 3rd grade (I call it 3rd grade) but reading, writing and spelling have not come easy to him. Writing and spelling are still a struggle, and reading is improving each year. I would say that he is 2nd/3rd grade level, a mix depending on what subject.

I would recommend what all the moms have recommended. Do the MFW 1st grade, maybe just the phonics, bible reader and notebook. Maybe continue with ECC (so the older child can still do it) and then have the younger one do the phonics, bible reader and notebook from 1st and jump in on the ECC for all the other subjects?

I would also like to say that the 1st grade program has some good recommendations for games and phonics strengthening. We made flashcards, played all the games listed in the back, used big, colorful flashcards with specials sounds, etc. Used whiteboards for copying the phonics (i.e. tooth, book /oo/); we also used the magna-doodle. I dug up every early reader I could find that would fit his level. He would read every day for at least 15 min. (this is in addition to the bible reader); I would sit with him and we would just do it. It was hard work, but he did it. Plugging along every day and consistently doing these phonics strengthening and review games was a big help.

Keep encouraging him that he's doing a good job. I hope you come up with the best fit for him, and you. I can really relate to the early struggles of reading. You're doing a good job, Mom.

[Lucy]

Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:55 am

I agree with using the phonics in first and dropping for the time the other language arts that you are doing. He will still get some writing from notebooking in Adv. and if he needs more writing practice you can have him do that in the MFW 1 program. Once he has learned to read, if he is up in all his other subjects, I do not think you will need to change his grade level. My daughter has been behind in math for several years and I think she is finally going to "catch up" this year. We never changed her grade level but just had her working at her level in that subject. Same goes for spelling.

Also, as said, you will breeze through the first part of MfW1. I would finish it to the end even after all of the phonics has been introduced. He will still need to continue with the practice and review to cement it in his mind.

My daughter did not really begin reading well until she was about 9 and research shows (Better Late Than Early by the Moores) that many kids just do not really connect it all even as late as age 12, especially boys (not all boys but the research weighs a bit heavier on that side). I say all that to say that what you and your child are experiencing is more normal that you may think.

The most important thing is that he learns to read, learns to love reading, and learns that books are fun (through learning you do together with them). So keep doing as much of Adventures is as possible, keeping the level of enjoyment high, but focus on that reading.

Lucy

[angelsoup]

Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:00 am

Ladies
Thank you so much for all your input - your stories have really encouraged me! I was struggling with spending more money, but I talked it over with my parents and in the end if he will gain reading, what's the money really amount to? I will go ahead and put my order in for MFW1st. All of us are enjoying Adventures very much, so we will continue in it. I will just change the reading/phonics portions.

[momma2kact]

I plan to use MFW1 with ds. He will be 7yrs old. He has an early Oct. B-day. So most dc who are in 1st grade are usually 6.

Should I start him using Singapore or just go ahead and use the MFW math schedule? I'm thinking of going ahead and using Singapore 1A but would like to hear what you all think :)

Posted: Sat Jan 12, 2008 11:53 pm

My oldest is 7 and in first grade (his b-day is in the middle of October). We began MFW-K last December (after trying a different curriculum for preschool and to start K). Other than what was in MFW K my son had not had any formal math, yet all of the MFW 1st grade math is easy for him!

My opinion is that it is better to have it too easy(to build confidence) rather than too hard(and discourage)esp. for oldest children/perfectionistic children(that's what I have:)

Hope you find what works best for you and your son.
Blessings,
Debbie

[Lucy]

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 2:41 pm

Just in case you were not aware and since it has not been mentioned yet the levels in Singapore are not grade levels. Students in Singapore do not begin with 1A until they are 7 or 8 years old.

MFW 1 math is very hands-on as well as using lots of math literature(listed in the TM) to teach the math concepts. There are also games and daily activities as well as the Complete Book of math. So it is not a traditional workbook approach to math for MFWK or 1st. You could always use the Singapore 1A test to see if he is ready to begin and decide based on that.

Also as Lori mentioned you may be able to use both.

I do agree with Linda that if you have any doubt it would be easier to wait and build a firm foundation. Most kids after finishing MFW 1 move into 1B or 2A.

Lucy

[Lainie]

Posted: Mon Jan 21, 2008 6:26 pm

Hello, Just wanted to let you know our experience. Our son is doing MFW 1st and loves it. We did decide to do Singapore math and started the year with 1A. He is already in the 1B book and loves the math. He has learned a lot and it was a good fit for us.

[lofgrenhomeschool]

Posted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 11:03 am

I just wanted to share that we have been redoing 1st grade with my 2nd grade daughter. We pulled her out of public school after 1st to homeschool her this year. We decided to redo 1st because we were not sure that she really had her basics down from the public school setting and wanted to make sure that she was really ready before moving on to 2nd. We also wanted to make sure that we had a successful, less stressful 1st year of homeschooling by making it on the easier side rather than harder. We decided too that we could just move through it faster if needed.

From my experience, it has been a nice year. I am very glad that we decided to make this year easier. It has really built up her confidence and made this year of teaching a lot easier on me. It has also been nice because we have had a stressful year; I just delivered our fourth child a little over two weeks ago and my husband accepted a job in a different town and is commuting. Because of all of this and having an easier year, I have been able to take off teaching on days that we have a lot going on and then make it up on other days.

I also feel that it has helped me know her weaknesses better. I feel that in public school she was just passed on and did not fully grasp things. I have found that concepts that I thought that she understood after 1st in the public school system, she really does not understand and needed more work on. I feel that this is not really holding her back as Adventures can be used in third grade also and she will still get full five-year cycle.

I do not know if this helpful to you at all, but I just wanted to let you know that if you went this route that you are not the only one. I am very glad that we are redoing 1st this year and I feel that she will be better prepared now for Adventures and I will be better at teaching Adventures after getting an easier year of homeschooling under my belt.

Christa

[kfrench]

Posted: Mon Nov 06, 2006 4:10 pm

I actually did MFW1 for second grade for my older dd and it worked really well. There is a lot of writing and I think it really was good when I did it with my older dd to do all the writing. So even if you did phonics in something else. doing the reader and the notebook would be great for getting him writing especially if he likes drawing pictures and likes bible stories. The bible stories gave my dd confidence in her reading because she knew the stories and so could figure out the hard words easier.

So it would depend on what your son needed.

[my3boys]

My son turned 8 in May. He is just now starting to pick up on how to read. He needs to continue on in phonics. My question is: should I do MFW 1st with him along with my 6 year old? And, if I use ECC for my 10/11 year old, would I use it also for my 8 yo, 6 yo, and 4yo? I also will have a 2yo and a newborn in Jan. I really don't want to use 2 full programs, so could I just use MFW 1st for phonics for my 6 yo (and possibly 8 yo) or are there other parts of it that should be incorporated in?

I'll be doing First with my 6 and 8 yos this coming school year. They are both at that level academically. Depending on your 8yo's maturity and interest level there are a lot of activities and books in ECC that he could participate in addition to First. I have heard that First is advanced as it contains all the phonics instruction that a child needs (I know my oldest did phonics until third grade) - so I am thinking after doing First ds will not be as far behind his peers as he seems to be now.

[4Truth]

Yes, yes, yes! My middle dd had just started reading when I first bought MFW K (she had just turned 6), so I ended up not doing K with her. Still, she struggled a lot and took a while to become fluent, so I later bought the 1st grade kit (when she was 7), but returned it thinking that it might be too "young" for her. I regret doing that. She would've benefited from it a LOT, even if we'd just done the Bible and phonics/LA portion of it.