Encouragement Needed - High schoolers who want group school

[cbollin]

Dd has been down lately. She admitted to me that she wants to go to the private school that is affiliated with our church. She started crying about it. I cried with her. She told me she knew that it probably wouldn't be possible, it's just sometimes she wants to be "normal". She also told me she wants to go there because they have a music program. I really don't think that's it. I don't think they have anything fabulous as far as that goes. I think she's played everything out in her head and knows that might be a good argument for going to school with her friends, since she's wanting to major in music.

I felt horrible, though, like I'm keeping her from something better, like she'll resent us someday. I talked to dh and he said that I didn't have to worry about whether to send her or not because he'll happily be the bad guy and that we don't just toss a conviction from the Lord like that strictly to make a child happy. It is kind of a relief. I know he's right. There are many reasons that people homeschool. Mine has always been because I felt God had led us to it, that it is what He wants for our family. This is our 11th year!! It is so hard to believe. I remember the times when it was a complete delight for her. My little boys are eating it up. They love snuggling up with me and reading books, making that Jewish calendar & pottery from the 1st grade manual, cooking things with their siblings, etc. It makes me so sad that it has to change.

I think I just need some encouragement with how to help her/how to view this if I'm off. I think this is a lesson for her in choosing to be satisfied. Dh and I have offered so many opportunities for them. At this point, she plays soccer, takes piano, is very involved in youth group at church, helps serve at the pregnancy center, and 4-h. In other words, she's not holed up here at home. Dh thinks I need to lay it out for her that her satisfaction is a choice. What is funny is that the friends who have made her want to go to this school seem to all be dissatisfied with it in one way or another. There are a lot of clique issues, meanness, arrogance over who has $$ and who doesn't. My dd is like a safety to a few of these girls because of what they have to deal with there. I told her that one of the reasons they like her so much is because she is different than what they have to deal with in the school!! I am now wishing she'd never befriended them.

I'd just like to hear, AGAIN, from those who have dealt with this and how you'd handle it if it were you.

Teresa,
You know my standard disclaimers on stuff: pray and ask God b/c he knows all of you.
You ask for opinions and some things came to mind that I wanted to share.

You and your dh have already decided that Homeschooling is what she will do. So, that’s the easy part. She’s doing WHL this year at home.

She’s not rejecting you or your decision in my opinion. It’s ok. No need to be angry as she isn’t rejecting you. She’s just being very honest and open with her parents. That’s a good thing. Nothing to be upset about. You want to keep those communication lines open. You've done something right with her and she just needs to work through it a bit to get there.

I think there are some key things that she thinks she wants:
“to be normal”. Well, what teenager doesn’t want that? Normal is a setting on our clothes dryers (I don't know who gets the credit on that quote), but not in our teen years. Plenty of the kids at the school want that feeling too.

I hear a longing in her heart. You said this happened this time last year and it’s happening again. I wonder out loud, is she feeling a sense of having a hard time letting go of summer schedule and summer fun and fellowship? She’s not ready for that to end. I get that way with lots of stuff. I can’t help but start singing Don Henley’s hit from sometime in the 80’s called Boys of Summer. It’s that same thing “no body’s on the road. No body’s on the beach. Feel it in the air. Summer’s out of reach. Empty lake, empty streets, the sun goes down alone…. “
and me being me, I’ll change the lyrics “my friends are in a car and I have to school at home…”


More music lessons? Well, maybe there are some part time enrollment options to fit a legit academic need.

Anyway, I should get to teaching this morning, but just know my oldest wants to feel normal. She definitely doesn't want to do group school. God provided a very, uh, unique friend for her. So, in their world they are normal. LOL LOL. Good kids. Nice family. Geeks and freaks.

((hugs)) and yes, I'll pray.
-crystal

[sojen]

Normal is a setting on our clothes dryers, but not in our teen years.

That has to be my new favorite quote! And the Don Henley song just put a BIG smile on my face!

Teresa,
My husband is the oldest of 5 children that have all been homeschooled. Four of them heavily complained during the high school years. They, too, wanted to be normal. But once I met my husband in college he had realized homeschool was much better preparation for college than traditional school. And it was his idea to homeschool our own kids.

I went to public school in high school and complained every day about how much I hated it. My friends in private school did the same thing. In fact, I can't think of one single teenager I have ever met who "loved" school, no matter how or where they were learning.

Keep praying that God gives you a peace about where she should be. If you continue to feel a confirmation from the Lord that you are to homeschool then hug her on her bad days and stay the course.

I will pray for you; this post struck a soft spot in my heart. My daughter's heart is breaking about something we had to say no to recently and as much as I would love to make my girl happy, I know He has a different plan in our situation.

"Call to me, and I will answer you, and show you great and mighty things, which you do not know." Jeremiah 33:3

[jasntas]

My dc are not teenagers but "I" am the one that actually seem to get this way. When public school starts I start to feel the 'peer pressure'. 'Everyone else' is going to ps, why aren't yours? Is the comment that I hear (and feel). I feel really strange sometimes when everyone in the grocery line, etc. starts asking my dc what grade they are going into, who their teacher is and what school they attend. (When school is starting everyone seems to ask this question.) At this age, my dc are proud to announce that they are homeschooled and that mom is their teacher. (Esp. my dd). They actually help ‘me’ sometimes to feel more comfortable.

I think with your dd, it is a matter of not wanted to feel different from 'everyone else'. Not wanting to stand out or be thought of as odd. Teens esp. want to feel accepted (and apparently so do some 40 somethings ) Your dd may feel like this is an area that ‘you’ have control over and that ‘you’ can change. So to her anything that could help her to not feel this way would help her feel relief from those feelings, at least in that area of her life.

I don't really have any advice but just wanted you to know that at one point or another we all want to feel like we fit in. Like the chapter, 'The Apprentice Juggler' in Kingdom Tales. (My 9 yo ds totally got that when I read it. I was shocked. That chapter also helped me btw)

I think some of those feelings are heightened at the beginning of the school year b/c it's even more obvious that ...

“my friends are in a car and I have to school at home…”

I'll be praying for your dd and your family.

[Julie in MN]

Teresa,
You've already had such good answers, from someone whose dh was homeschooled himself, no less. I just wanted to say that I'm right there with you. Keeping my kids home against their wishes has been one of the hardest things in my 26-year parenting career, but one of the things I've been most convicted about.

I love all the things you have told your dd already. Truly she is hearing them somewhere in her brain, and those thoughts will be there later when she is able to hear them. The only things I can think of to add are:

(1) I always explain that it is our responsibility as parents to do the very best thing we know how with our children, and that some day it will be up to them to do this for their own children, but right now it is *our* job.

(2) As you have already mentioned, this is mostly a "grass is greener" issue, along with a cultural pressure. Neither of these are worthy reasons to make major life changes. My youngest had the audacity to sadly tell me how much he missed the schoolbus -- when he had literally cried and begged to have me drive him to public school because he had hated the schoolbus so much I have personal experience that public school does NOT mean good teachers, good friends, or good times, so it is harder to get me to acknowledge *any* of those arguments from my kids!

(3) Eventually I just decide that I've heard enough and they are not to discuss their desire to public school in my presence any longer. This has also been extended to their friends, at times. Sharing opinions is welcomed at our house, but at some point it can cross the line into disrespect. And like the hunchback, I am a human being! I can only take so much negativity.

(4) I have some adult children now, and I can assure you that your kids will thank you for some things they hated. They will also continue to disagree with you on other things. I believe that if you are honest in telling them that you did the very best you knew how, rather than telling them you did the very best thing period, and you continue to demonstrate love and faith, then they will forgive you for any differences. And again, if your adult children *don't* grow up and accept your parenting choices, then have them call me -- I can give many examples of why the grass is NOT greener on the other side But for now while they not yet adults, I think talking doesn't help so much.

Julie

[ilovemy4kids]

We'll be doing AHL and K this year. ODD is eager to start, so I handed her the box of AHL and told her to start, investigate, dive in.

Okay, take my suggestions for what they are worth, which isn't much! I'm sharing my experience as it relates to a similar situation. Not saying you did the same things I did. Whatever you do, don't give up, you will get through this!

Some kids might be excited by this, mine would with the investigate part, but not the start and dive in. AHL does require you as the parent to do a bit of preparation and a bit of hand holding that first week. Many places on the grid it says "with parent". Perhaps if you could devote 1 week to doing school "with" her, reading some out loud, trying to build excitement for the material etc... it might spark her interest.

About an hour later she brought the books back to me saying she had learned nothing and that the curriculum was "useless". Sigh. This is what she does every year. I research and obsess over curricula for months and she starts--all bright eyed and eager. But that lasts for only a few weeks and only with the subjects she likes (history and science). She then blames me and blames the curriculum, when it turns out she hasn't been doing all of her work. She gets through a year saying she learned nothing and is then stressed when yet another year passes and she doesn't know what she perceives her friends know.
She IS behind in math and grammar. She hasn't been diligent about the work. but is she ever going to buckle down? Is she ever going to get that despite my announcing that it's school time, giving her her books, being there for any help she might need, She then blames me and blames the curriculum, when it turns out she hasn't been doing all of her work.

I feel your pain and have been there. In my case I was partially to blame. As the parent, I am supposed to follow up, preferably daily, but definitely weekly and ensure the work is done. If not, it is my responsibility to make sure it gets done and if it doesn't, the privileges are taken away. It still might not get done right away, but neither will the "fun" stuff.

I cannot MAKE her learn. That's her responsibility.

Nope, you can't MAKE her, but you can take away the things she wants to do and tell her she can have them back AFTER she does what you have asked.

She is such a bright kid--a bookworm. But put anything that she doesn't want to do in front of her and she complains and gets away with doing as little as possible. What am I going to do?

Lots of love and lots of prayer! No real practical advice here, just a big internet hug and a few prayers sent on your behalf.

[Stephc]

Thanks for your encouragement. I guess I should have made it clear in my post that I was not planning on her doing the curriculum herself from the get go. I had planned on getting together with her to show her the ropes. It was my irritation with her that threw her the books and said "go for it". We have not started school yet (we will after the 4th of July weekend), and she was doing what she does, complaining that she had not been learning for awhile (we school year round, but have had to take a traditional 3 month break because we were buying a house, moving, hosting in-laws, my husband's job sent him away for a month, and I am taking an Algebra course online). Since she was being impatient I told her to start if she wanted to start, but that I would not be able to help her until her Daddy gets back in July. In hindsight, maybe I would have told her to hush, given her some chores, and kept the books to myself until we start. Lol.

Life just really feels overwhelming right now. We spent a year in my parents' house where the kids were not allowed to do anything so they hid away upstairs and took solace in the computers. Now that we are on our own again I see that they are sorely lacking in discipline and want to stare at anything with a screen all day, except my oldest who just wants to have her nose in a book and not interact with her siblings. Add to this that i have 2special needs kids who need ALOT of direction in school, a 5 year old who will be the first in our family to not read at 5, and 2 toddlers that are a two girl wrecking crew. My husband's absence does not help. Right now it feels like our family and the way it is supposed to operate is irreparably broken.

[ilovemy4kids]

Sniff, sniff... I'm crying with you! You have had a rough time for quite a while. Your family will be okay! God can fix anything. I promise. By the way, it is okay to scream. I find stuffing my face in a pillow with my door shut, giving a good scream into the pillow, followed by crying out to the Lord can really make a huge difference. And since the scream is muffled by the pillow, it doesn't scare the kids!

Frustration does lead us all to do things in the heat of the moment that we wish we had done differently. Our saying here is "make like a duck", in other words, just shake it off and move on. If she feels like she is not learning, ask her what she wants to learn about, take her to the library and let her pick a couple of books on the subject. Then maybe hint that she could make a cool game or puppet show or something fun to share the information with her younger siblings. Who knows it could work. Or it could not, just a thought.

You certainly have your hands full. For most of our marriage, my husband has traveled extensively. It has not been easy and I won't go into details, but our marriage almost ended. We are still trying to recover and not give up. The point is, you probably feel very alone and overwhelmed. Try not to sweat the small stuff. As for staring at a screen all day, could you implement a policy of 1 hour per day? Or whatever number you feel is good. We have a jar (very dusty these days from lack of use), that is the "I'm BORED" jar. It has slips of paper with things on them. Sweep the floor, scrub the sink, wash the baseboard in the living room, play a game, read a story to your sibling, write a letter to grandma, etc... If someone says the words, then they pick a paper.

The internet is so hard because it's not seeing the situation in real life, but having a 14 year old dd currently, and two grown daughters, I sense that your dd may be feeling alone as well. She may want to have her nose in that book to escape. She many not want to be with the siblings out of feeling like another mom ( I hope that reads properly without condemnation, I'm trying to say that sometimes for girls with younger siblings and dad away, the feel like mom's helper instead of mommy's little girl). Not because that is reality, but those hormones distort everything! Is it possible for just the two of you to get away, even for an ice cream at Mc Donald's? Just the two of you. Alone, for fun.

Umm...if your 5 year old doesn't read till 8, that's okay. Seriously. Ask me how I know.

Don't give up, call out to the Lord, and take some time to just relax and enjoy the children. As for the Algebra class, wish I could help with that one, but alas, I cannot. But we are here on the sidelines cheering you on and sending up prayers!

Blessings
Sandra

[momonthemove]

I am sorry that you are struggling. I know when my hubby and I do not have time together I start to feel lonely and overwhelmed.

I will boldly post my thoughts and hope that you take these as sincere and not judging.

The first thing I would address is your daughter's attitude. It is not about the curriculum. If you feel out of whack from the past year or so, your daughter has to feel it too. If they have not had a lot of consistency, then when you offer something structured (ie. the curriculum) that may seem overwhelming to her. Regardless of this, she needs to respect you. I would try the next couple of weeks to steal a little time away each day with her doing something together. WHen the little ones go to bed, spend a bit of time with her. Or, get everyone settled and have 15 minutes just hanging out with her.

Then the week before you start with the curriculum (AND I WOULD NOT CHANGE IT!) I would calmly explain that this is the curriculum you are using this year and that no curriculum is perfect. How we approach it...attitude, willingness to learn, etc. will make a difference in how the year goes. (We have had to do that with our son in regards to math. When I give him the responsibility for his attitude, it takes the pressure off of me and it places the responsibility with him.)

Now in regards to her not wanting to spend time with family and being in front of a screen or a book....there is your currency for her. If she gives attitude when you start, take away the electronics. Give her "chores" to do that does not allow her to just sit with a book. And, I would be clear that part of being in a family, means spending time with them. Not all the time, and I understand needing time to yourself...but some time should be expected. (Again, as my 12 year old is getting older, he wants less time with his little sister who seems gifted in pushing his buttons. I have explained over and over that if he gives her 15 minutes a day in playing what SHE wants and how SHE wants to play it, that will make her so happy. Does he do it willingly? Not always. But, when I tell him it is time with his sister, he does it and often that 15 minutes extends on his own choice.)

Most importantly.....I know God's shoulders are big enough to handle this. As you start to feel overwhelmed and stressed throughout the day, just start praying right then and there for peace, patience, calmness, strength...whatever it is you need. When I admit to myself and the Lord that I cannot do it myself....I feel His presence. And, I am a bit of a control freak, so I determined I can fix things. LOL God must find so much amusement in that!

Good luck and blessings to you and your family!

[Stephc]

You guys have made me smile and feel so much less alone today. Thank you so much.

Lol! Oh Sandra, your post abut screaming had my laughing and crying. I am generally a non-cryer, but lately I have been so weepy. YES alone. Very, very alone. My husband is awesome, and my very best friend. But he is gone 10 hours a day and when he is here sometimes he is not "here", as in he likes projects (and naps). Lol. He is a great dad, though, and has helped me many times do school when I just could not get to it. And you are right about ODD feeling like she's a second mommy. Thing is, I do EVERYTHING. she volunteers for nothing. When I ask her to help so I can get dinner done, or have them do their chores for the day (not at all burdensome, and usually once a day), she will sigh and reluctantly say "ooohkay". Like I said, I do pretty much everything, but rely on my second daughter much more than my oldest because second daughter actually enjoys helping and enjoys her siblings. But yes, I do think hat our nteractions have become her talking my ear off about some inane video she saw on YouTube (I listen patiently and do not call them inane to her face. Lol) and my dragging her out of her room to empty the dishwasher. Pretty much sums up our day. Thanks for sharing about the fact that God can heal anything. My husband spent 20 years in the Air Force, so "gone a lot" is something I can relate to.

Crystal-- my oldest son has Aspergers and an intestinal disease, but in some ways he is one of my easiest children. he is very fastidious about keeping his room clean, and takes care of his own enemas (via a g-tube in his belly). He is so happy to do right and loves God. Now, when he is not my easiest child he is REALLY not my easiest, and he's starting to get too big for me to carry him off when he's having a screaming fit, but thankfully those are becoming less and less. I know exactly what you are saying about how some things feel like they will never be the same. My husband and I refer to May 2011 to May 2012 as "the lost year". We lost so much of what we had as a family before. God used that year to teach my husband an me a lot about blessings and trusting Him and tithing even when we had no money to do so! But as far as the effects on our kids? In many ways I feel like we will never be the same. And yes, I am sure I probably need a supplement. Nursing mom who has no time to eat.....

I LOVE your idea of office hours. I think that may be one big factor to ODD's frustration--the fact that I literally have no down time (I get online when I am nursing!), so help with school gets pushed back way too much. Maybe if she felt that there were specific times everyday that she could (has to!) come to me and get my undivided attention she would feel less hopeless. I had not even thought about the fact that maybe she feels stupid. And the fact that I know she is absolutely not probably does not help because I just basically tell her to buckle down and do what I know she can do. And YES, she does tend to be flighty. She is giggly and talks really fast and twirls her hair and stares in the mirror WAY too much and is just very distractible. And boy, do I remember being reduced to anger and tears when I was 14 and for the first time in my life could not understand a subject (Algebra). That was the year I received my first and only 'C'. Couldn't pay me enough to repeat that year. Lol! So I think office hours it is. I have so many ideas floating around in this head of mine that i really need to start writing things down. I always have the best of intentions and then get in the thick of a school year and am overwhelmed and without tools again.

Momonthemove (I can't see your real name on this screen)--thank you. You did not sound judgmental. What you are saying about attitude and consequences is right. I think it's hard for me to want to take anything away right now because ODD has no friends except those she had in Las Vegas before my husband retired from the military. So she talks to them online. I know she is being escapist with her books and online time. We used to have a 30 minute time limit for computer time, but in the last year that has sputtered and died because of circumstances. what you said about your daughter's being gifted in pushing your son's buttons made me laugh. Our 5 yo DD is like that with ALL of her older siblings. I think I'll have to implement their playing with her the way she wants for 15 minutes a day. I tell them the more they ignore her the more she will annoy them, and I tell her the more she annoys them, the more they won't want her around.

I'm going to have to reread all these posts and let them all sink in and implement some stuff.

[Julie in MN]

Oh, Stephanie, <hugs>. I'm so glad you're getting some wonderful conversation about stress. I am so grateful for God's grace and that each morning, my burdens are gone and I started fresh. I pray the same will happen for you as you teach all your children this year.

About an hour later she brought the books back to me saying she had learned nothing and that the curriculum was "useless". Sigh. This is what she does every year.
...
She gets through a year saying she learned nothing and is then stressed when yet another year passes and she doesn't know what she perceives her friends know. She IS behind in math and grammar. She hasn't been diligent about the work.
...
She is such a bright kid--a bookworm.

A bookworm warms my heart :o) A bookworm made me want to chime in

But oooo, a kid who thinks they already know everything, that's a hot button for me. My kids get a very long mom-conversation when they use that as a reason for not doing something, and even their friends get to hear some of my long speeches when they say that around me LOL. I have a 5yo grandson who just entered his first round of the "I already knew that" stage - lucky for him he's a cute little guy

Anyways, I think your dd is getting confused about learning. There are several aspects of learning that maybe she isn't thinking thru. Maybe it would help calm her and help her focus if she thinks thru the idea of "learning" a little bit?

When she worries about what her friends know, it sounds like she's thinking of learning as accumulating facts so she can keep up? That's kind of the first stage of learning, or grammar stage as some like to say. Her brother with Aspbergers is probably very good at this and maybe she sees that. But really, this isn't what's going on in high school.

If she really, really wants this -- wants to feel like she can recite lots of facts around others or even just to organize what she's read in her own mind -- then she could spend some time on this. One option, being that she does independent reading, would be to allow her to create her own elective course on "the general facts of ancient history," or, "a chronological outline of ancient history," or something like that? Another option might be to let her use the timeline figures in AHL to get some of those facts down. I used the same timeline figures with my older dd before MFW had high school, and used them in lots of ways, from flashcards to putting them on the wall. Then I used to make a separate copy of them and white out the dates; the challenge was to try to put the events in order on her own. I realize now that I probably over-did it LOL, but maybe that would be something to give your dd a sense of accomplishment. Of course, you'd need to figure out where to fit it in her day -- subbing out an elective or a book or whatever, so you don't overwhelm by adding-adding-adding (ask me how I know!).

Beyond her desire to know facts, or "what she perceives her friends know," maybe it would help her to talk through what kind of learning is really going on in most of high school. This stage of learning is more than knowing the same things as another person. Actually, the more educated you are, the more you realize how you'll never know it all. The kind of thinking that begins in high school cannot be handed out but must be actively investigated. As kids enter high school, there can be a transition period (for my kids, anyways), from expecting information to be handed to them, to the stage where they must be invested in their own learning in order to progress. Kids grow to be invested in this level of learning for different reasons -- to follow the rules, to achieve their goals, to make their teachers happy, sometimes actually to learn stuff -- so it's not always done with enthusiasm But learning to learn may just be the most important thing she accomplishes in high school.

Okay, back to AHL. In AHL, there are a lot of small pieces that come together to "help the student learn" (vs. actually to hand the student her education). She'll read a book and think, "Oh, that's not much." But then she's reading a book by another author, reading a piece of literature, mapping the area, fitting the events in a timeline book, and writing an essay comparing the events to something else. If she wants more at that point, it's up to her -- read more, write more, ask more, look up more, every learner will follow different trails. No tossing the books aside and saying they're "useless"! After all, God instructed us to learn His Word by reading the very same thing lots of times, once is never to be enough, and God knows exactly what type of learners we are In fact, the major text in AHL is following His instructions exactly!

Deuteronomy 6
6 These commandments that I give you today are to be on your hearts. 7 Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. 8 Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads. 9 Write them on the doorframes of your houses and on your gates.

[Stephc]

Julie, I think I might tell my DD much of what you've said here about her learning and real knowledge. You've aid it much better than I do in the heat of the moment and it might help her to see it frm someone else. Thanks so much!

[Ohmomjacquie]

I can't help much. Hugs though!

Thank you Sandra for your post. My husband and I are going through a really rough period lately. I llove the "make like a duck "comment.

[Stephc]

So after a less than stellar start yesterday with ODD's attitude, AHL seems to be going very well. ODD was the one who asked to start, and yet when we did just that she had crossed arms and a pouty look on her face and a refusal to see anything good about the program......until we figured out the schedule and she dove into the materials the proper way. Today I tried starting out with her again and she just said "Mom, can I just do it myself?", so I let her. WE'll see how that works during our conference on Friday. Sigh. 14 year old girls......

So as I get more organized ( and I say that a bit tongue in cheek. If you could see my house! I'd just be happy to see the carpet at this point. Boxes and books everywhere. Like a bookstore explosion. But we are making incremental improvements. Never has settling a house been SO hard).....I notice that, well, I am doing K, and ODD is doing AHL.... I might as well do CTG to match up with ODDs AHL, right? It could be great for conversations between them all.