Reading - Phonics questions, sight words,

God's Creation From A to Z: A Complete Kindergarten Curriculum
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TriciaMR
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Reading - Phonics questions, sight words,

Unread post by TriciaMR » Fri Oct 10, 2008 9:21 am

Does MFW teach K sight words?
1GirlTwinBoys wrote:Just curious if this will come up later in our cirriculum.
MFW is the same way as Abeka. They introduce the words "the" and "a" (so you can have sentences that make sense), and then everything else is CVC, and then on to CVCE and CVVC words.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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kugoi
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Re: Does MFW teach K sight words?

Unread post by kugoi » Wed Oct 15, 2008 9:58 am

Color sight words are introduced in Lesson 26. But otherwise, it's just "the" and "a" as far as I can tell, which is fine by me b/c ds keeps trying to sound out "the"!
Mom of 7, ages 14, 10, 8, 6, 4, 1 and new baby.
Have used K, 1st, Adv, ECC, and CtoG

cbollin

Silly phonics question?? Trying to understand!

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:26 am

kimber79 wrote:My son is 5 and we'll be starting MFW-K in September (he'll be 5 1/2 at that point) and my husband wants us to go ahead and start in the fall. We're excited!

In the meantime, my son has already started reading slightly. By that, I mean he has been sounding out vowel-consonant words after learning his letter sounds and now is reading CVC words. He started with 'at' and cat and progressed to bat, rat, fat, hat, sat, etc. and then we read 'an' and now he's reading can, man, fan, tan, van, ban, Jan, Dan, etc. He also knows many other sight words that have become common in our home (God, Jesus, love, Bible, the, is, good, etc.) and reads those when he sees them. A lot of this he wanted on his own - asking me how to say words and what words say that he sees. He also has benefited from http://www.starfall.com and hearing the letter sounds there.

We still plan to do MFW-K because after speaking with the office staff, K will give him a good solid foundation in reading as well as other areas and help us see if there are any gaps in phonics. He also struggles with handwriting so K will give him the practice he needs.

Here's my question
: Once my son has sounded out a word and practices it and reads it in various places, he seems to memorize it or become familiar with it so when he sees the word another time he just reads it and doesn't sound it out. Is this how phonics works? Do words that we begin sounding out eventually become sight words, per se, because he has practiced them and now recognizes them and reads them? I noticed a few times that he would try guessing at a word and I would tell him to not guess, but to say the letter's sound if he gets stuck and wants to know what a word says. But is he supposed to be sounding out all the time, even the words he already knows? Just want to better understand this!

And he has come across words in books he's looking at that he wants to sound out but they end up not following a rule or sounding the same - like the word star. He did a good job sounding out the s and t but then he said the short a and it didn't make sense. So I just told him that when words have an -ar in them they sound like car. And I said he would learn more about this later. This also happened with giraffe - he was expecting he g should be a hard g and I told him some g words are different! Just wondering if this is an appropriate way to address other words that follow other rules.

Thanks for your help!
not silly question at all.

Yes, that's how it works. When we, as adults, are reading, it's a lot of know by sight words that we learned from phonics.

I would keep doing like you are doing. Let him know that there are other sounds and rules that he hasn't learned yet, but will soon. And to tell him the word and let him practice it.

I'd encourage you to review more ideas on this thread
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7179

-crystal

gratitude
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Re: Silly phonics question?? Trying to understand!

Unread post by gratitude » Thu Jun 30, 2011 10:16 am

kimber79 wrote:We still plan to do MFW-K because after speaking with the office staff, K will give him a good solid foundation in reading as well as other areas and help us see if there are any gaps in phonics. He also struggles with handwriting so K will give him the practice he needs.
Invaluable foundation. The phonics foundation in MFW-K are very very good, and MFW1 moves quickly using the foundation built in MFWK. I am glad that you called the office.

As to your question. No, it isn't silly at all. One of the things that happens to us moms who home school young children is we learn how children learn to read, and we learn how to teach it.

You are doing a great job with him. When you start with MFWK I would still start at the beginning, and even if it seems like review it is laying a solid phonics foundation for spelling & difficult words later. When I did MFWK with my second son last fall he could read some and we started at the beginning and I am glad that we did.

You understand it exactly. The phonics they learn helps when they run into a difficult word later in reading, it also helps with spelling. Once they know a word they no longer read it by sounding it out, and it becomes a part of their memorized reading vocabulary (word recognition) and then they are reading the way you & I do. You will be amazed by how many words they learn by never sounding them out; but phonics is still important and a valuable language arts skill.

kimber79
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Re: Silly phonics question?? Trying to understand!

Unread post by kimber79 » Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:08 pm

Thank you both for your response! I'm glad that I understand this a little better and can now relax... :) thank you again!

Julie in MN
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Re: Silly phonics question?? Trying to understand!

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu Jun 30, 2011 3:38 pm

kimber79 wrote:Here's my question: Once my son has sounded out a word and practices it and reads it in various places, he seems to memorize it or become familiar with it so when he sees the word another time he just reads it and doesn't sound it out.
I agree that we all start to sort-of "memorize" words, but that if a child works with sounds and letters long enough as a young reader, then those skills and rules will be with him when he gets older and meets words that he hasn't seen before (by about 7th grade, that is sure to happen). So I'd keep working with the rules and skills to get them into him as often as possible, so they will be in him for life. I always tell about my youngest who never worked with the alphabet in his early school years, so he doesn't have that automatic response that "R" is towards the end, not the beginning of the alphabet, etc.
kimber79 wrote:And he has come across words in books he's looking at that he wants to sound out but they end up not following a rule or sounding the same - like the word star.
You can tell your ds that he's learning one sound for each letter this year, but that he'll learn more sounds next year. (e.g. "G" says /j/ when it's followed by e, i, or y.)

He's learning the "most common" sound for each letter, and that will always be the sound he falls back on to try first, if he's ever unsure. So he can read "the most" words with the sound he's learning now :)

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
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MelissaM
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MFW-K--short vowels only?

Unread post by MelissaM » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:56 am

lisabee wrote:We are on week #2 and though we aren't very far ahead, I've been planning out my schedule for the upcoming weeks...I am curious though. For those who have completed the MFW K curriculum...does it only teach SHORT VOWELS? It seems like (from the yellow pages) that it does.

Do they wait for the other vowels with the 1st grade curriculum? It just seems odd to only teach short vowels...I know that when I subbed in Kindergarten in Public School they teach ALL the sounds for the vowels...usually short first...but then a good chunk of time on the long vowels...then a dabbling with the sounds like "too" and "book" and such...
Yes, short vowels only in K. Today we did Day 27 of 1st grade, though, and we've already covered a bunch of long vowels; today was /oo/ spelled oo, as in spoon. My son is picking it up so fast, and so well, I'm really amazed. He even read a few words out of my Bible this morning - without help - and most importantly, he wanted to. I think the slow and gentle start in K really laid a great foundation for him.

My dd was already reading when she started 1st grade, and I thought the 1st grade program would be "too easy" or too light, or something. I so much wish I'd come over here and asked about it then; we ended up using something different (which was fine, no complaints about it), but I really think this phonics base would have been super helpful with learning spelling. And there's a huge step up in the amount of writing from K to 1st, that I think would have been good as well.

Anyway. Why am I posting? You didn't ask about 1st grade, and Crystal already did a good job answering your question. I just wanted to encourage you or reassure you, I don't know - that a gentle approach in K - short vowels and really learning how to blend well - makes a great foundation for future phonics.

:)
:)
Melissa
DD13
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lisabee
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Re: MFW-K--short vowels only?

Unread post by lisabee » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:05 pm

Thank you! i will just let it go and enjoy a slower approach to phonics! My son is good about asking questions, so I'm sure he'll mention something later on about why the vowels make different sounds...
Lisa M.
Mom to two fabulous farm-fresh boys
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Dusenkids
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Re: MFW-K--short vowels only?

Unread post by Dusenkids » Wed Sep 07, 2011 12:22 pm

I highly recommend the slower pace of MFW over the ps. As a reading teacher we did cover all the vowels (short, long, and some "fancy vowels") in K, and all in 1st, and again in 2nd, and continued to review in 3rd. Yes they cover them sooner and faster but it doesn't stick. PS teachers don't expect true mastery until 2nd for most students (at least in my district). Another thing to think about is that they start reading sometime during or after 2nd quarter with predicatble sight word sentences. Not blending. So even though it is beeing taught ("a says long a and short a") it isn't really being used much. Again, this is my district. Others will be different. Just sharing what I've seen. English sounds can be sooooooo tricky and the rules change from word to word. It needs to move slow. My son, on lesson 7, is already blending the letters we've covered on his own in his "reading." I strongly believe that it is because we are taking it slow.
Martie
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far above rubies
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Re: MFW-K--short vowels only?

Unread post by far above rubies » Wed Sep 07, 2011 2:51 pm

I've used both this approach and one in which everything is taught during the 1st grade. I think spending a year only on short vowels is great. My oldest deal well with everything thrown at her in one year, but two of my other children are completely different learners and will likely do better with a slower time.

Enjoy your year. :)
K (2007-2008, 2011-2012), ADV (2010-2011), ECC (2011-2012)
2012-2013: CtG [dd (5th), ds (3rd), dd (1st), ds (3), and ds (1) ]

cbollin

When to teach sight words?

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Apr 27, 2012 2:36 pm

Mom2theteam wrote:I'm really clueless on what needs to be taught when. I am finishing up K with my oldest. I follow the TM and do what it says and don't even think about what it doesn't say because I am ignorant of what that might be. :~ (when it comes to phonics especially. I do use other experiences as learning opportunities. ;) ) Therefore, my son does not know many sight words at all. He is picking up a few, but I haven't purposed to teach him any. Does MFW teach them and if so, when??

I see mention of sight words all over the place. Somewhere else people were saying that a k'er should know 50-100 sight words by the end. Umm....mine knows maybe 5. :~ The curriculum doesn't tell me to teach them, so I haven't. Am I missing something I should know and my child is suffering for it?? He does read CVC words fairly easily even though he still sounds them out first.

He is starting 1st soon. Maybe it is in there and I didn't see, but I didn't see it. LOL. Where can I find out what words he should learn as sight words. I feel so lost sometimes and I'm having a hard time not feeling like he is behind because of me. Help! :~
Yes.... sight words are taught in 1st grade when they are needed to help with the Bible reader selection.

Teacher to teacher here.... there are competing philosophies out there about "sight words" and how many, and when. One philosophy is hog wash toward them and says almost all of the standard 220 sight words are actually not sight words, but taught in phonograms.
While I don't agree with this article entirely when it comes to the fear mongering about sight words "causing" dyselxia, I do like the information in terms of spelling rules and what are some common sight words that your child might already know.
here...
http://www.thephonicspage.org/On%20Read ... words.html


There will be some sight words in MFW K in the last unit. You'll want to make sure your child in K can read his first and last name. :)

then,.. it's in first grade when you need it.

In other words... you haven't messed up :)
Mom2theteam wrote:Thanks Crystal! You are always so helpful to me. I'm definitely going to read that link later.

He can definitely read and write his name. ;)

I had picked up on different thoughts about sight words and I know there are several different philosophies regarding phonics and learning to read. I just never had time to really go in-depth and research them myself. I decided to trust MFW and so far it's been working beautifully. Seeing someone else ask about how a K'er should be reading and seeing several respond with 50-100 sight words got me worried. I need to stop second guessing myself and MFW. I'm hoping that is still going to come with time and I'll gain confidence as I get more years of Homeschooling behind me. I know that is how parenting is. I'm perfectly confident in my ability to parent (most of the time ;) ), but it took time to build that. I assume the same will be true of HS'ing. I hope. LOL!!

Also, for anyone coming behind me....I found this thread in the archives after I posted this question:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1209
nice link!

in terms of 50 sight words... in MFW, in Kindy, they work on short vowel controlled readers so that you don't have to introduce a lot of words that otherwise don't make sense.

and my guess? even those using that idea of teach sight in Kindy... may not all have the same 50 words either...
I'm doing a google search as I type.... the lists are all different.
here's a list of 32 that should put it in perspective.
http://www.education.com/magazine/artic ... ightwords/

I can remember when I was in Kindy. We took a field trip to the Natural Bridge Zoo in Virginia. It was all day Kindy trip.. road trip baby! anyway.... the teachers were thrilled that we all could read the road signs for ZOO
and that was the "advanced" class of readers. LOL

here.. this one is cute..... Mrs. somebody's Kindy class in some public school... check out the list of by the end of the year spelling words, scroll to bottom for the spelling list.. (but if your child needs to use the blend ladder or doesnt' know them it is ok)
http://schools.dcsdk12.org/education/co ... ilid=65625&

-crystal

BHelf
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Re: When to teach sight words?

Unread post by BHelf » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:12 pm

I definitely am going to check out that first link, Crystal. The thought of sight words contributing to dyslexia at first sounds sort of "conspiracy theory"-ish but you know...my daughter had no signs of dyslexia til after public school PreK and K where they didn't teach any phonics--just sight words. Something to think about, nonetheless. I had never thought the two could be linked, and honestly, they probably aren't, but it is interesting to ponder.

Also, just because I am excited--my son (age 6) is now able to read some CVC words. We've only used MFWK stuff with him. We have been taking it V-E-R-Y slowly with him (we just finished up g-g-goat...I can't even remember what lesson that is) and I was beginning to wonder if he would ever catch on. Super exciting!! I was getting all anxious about the fact that he should be starting 1st in the fall and we won't be nearly done with K and how that looks to my family and friends who aren't sold on HSing. But, he is finally catching on and I'm not going to push him at all. ;)

Okay, sorry, just had to share.

Brooke
Wife to DH for almost 13 years
Mommy to Eileen-9, Merrick-6, Adalynn-5 and Karis--19 months
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Julie in MN
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Re: When to teach sight words?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:41 pm

BHelf wrote:they didn't teach any phonics--just sight words.
Yes, I think of phonics and sight words as being opposite philosophies. If someone asks about sight words, I might just say, "I'm using a phonics program." In other words, a different philosophy of teaching reading.

I mean, MFW does teach "the" as a sight word in kindy, but really I think a solid phonics program would rarely teach more than a handful of sight words, and some serious, heavy-duty phonics programs teach that there should not be a single one. Of course, like Crystal mentioned, some words just become memorized, and kids are good little memorizers. But speaking for my youngest who taught himself to read by memorizing, I don't feel it's the best way or the furthest reaching method.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
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TriciaMR
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Re: When to teach sight words?

Unread post by TriciaMR » Sat Apr 28, 2012 8:16 pm

I think many of those who say, "They can read 50 to 100 sight words" means they have memorized 50 to 100 words. So, don't worry about it. I like the way MFW teaches reading. I've done Abeka and MFW, and while different approaches, neither teach a lot of sight words. Some "sight words" are really due to how we pronounce them. Commonly taught words: a, the, was (because we pronounce it wuz), of (because it's pronounce uv), because, and sometime "they" is taught (but /ey/ can say long-a or long-e, so it follows a phonics rule) just so they can read more books. Abeka would often do that, teach a word as a sight word just so they could read a certain story, and then later on that year, you would learn the phonics rule.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
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kewkew34
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Re: When to teach sight words?

Unread post by kewkew34 » Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:44 am

I've been meaning to chime in to this thread but have never had time to log on. I spend most of my time reading the boards on my phone, but I don't like posting from there because it takes forever to type.

Anyhow, I have such a aversion to sight words. Especially those lovely lists of sight words. My older children who went to public school have such trouble reading and I attribute some of that to the reading program which was whole word approach. My 15 year old still has trouble sounding out words.

I agree that most of the "sight words" are words they can learn phonetically if we just wait and don't push. That said, I just reviewed a DVD from Rock 'N Learn called Sight Words (for my blog). It was actually quite fun to watch. I don't expect my girls to really learn the words, but if they catch on to some, I thought okay. Then for the fun of it I looked up the Dolch sight word list on line. I had my Tabitha (who turned 5 in January) try reading the Pre-Primary words. She read every single one of them without hesitation. This is the girl who is going to be starting Kindergarten toward the end of summer. Definitely going to be doing some tweaking.
Karen-Wife to Harold for 7 yrs
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Steven-21 grad of PS, Floyd-19 working on GED, Krystal-16 lives with her dad and in PS
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Mom2theteam
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Re: When to teach sight words?

Unread post by Mom2theteam » Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:05 am

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the input. You all reminded me exactly why I chose a PHONICS program and not a sight word program. I admit, I didn't do a ton of research on the styles of teaching reading. I didn't feel like i needed to. I don't remember, but I don't think I was taught to read everything phonically. I can certainly read. (hence being part of a forum. ;) ), but I have trouble sounding out words that I'm not familiar with seeing on paper and I'm a horrible speller as some of you may have already noticed. (though, I'm a master at using spell check. :-) ) I decided on a phonics program hoping to avoid these issues with my children. When I decided on this, in my mind, a lot of sight words did not fit into my idea of phonics because that doesn't teach you to read phonically or sound things out. I guess I forgot that. :~ Thank you all very much for reminding me! I'm going to stick with what we've been doing and not worry about the sight words. :-)
Heather
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Mom to 6, ages 10, 7, 7, 5, 5, 3
Zack, 10 CtG
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