Academics - Do we slow down if child is struggling?

[rebeccal2002]

Kindergarten to hard for my 6 year old

Hi all! For starters I was a teacher for many years before having kids. Then I became a stay at home mom and now I have home-schooled all 3 of our kids from the very beginning.

The problem is our youngest who is 6 years old. He is having a hard time with the kindergarten curriculum. The teacher in me knows he is at an early preschool level. He is starting to read but can't remember his letter sounds. He has a horrible time at writing and he only knows 1/2 the numbers from 1-10. I also know that boys can sometimes take longer than girls to learn these things.

So my question is.. should I reteach kindergarten next year using the same curriculum, slow down the 1st grade curriculum, or lastly, not move onto 1st grade and just work on the basics (letter recognition, reading, writing and numbers) till he gets that before moving on to 1st grade.

Perfect vision and we had eye-tracking checked.

I assume you're using MFW, K? I'm using it right now with my 5 1/2 year old. We're only on unit 10. He has trouble with his fine motor skills (writing), but is picking up most other things. It's only my 2nd time using MFWK. Having used MFW 1st twice before I definitely wouldn't start it until the basics of letter sounds is MASTERED. The phonics of that program just moves WAY too fast if they are still learning them. I actually had to use another reading program after 1st for my 2nd graders (AAR, level 1) to bring her up to speed. We have many dyslexic children, however, so reading comes a bit more difficult for us.

Not sure if this is helping, but I would say you know your child, trust yourself that he needs to slow down and master some skills still. Don't start a fast past reading program until he is ready.

Hugs,

Rebecca

[Julie in MN]

It's hard to say why some children are slow to catch on. My grandson is just getting reading this year, in 2nd grade. He had all-day public school plus afterschooling with grandma using MFW at a slow pace. Some of his was due to learning Spanish and English at the same time, and some probably due to disinterest, each kid is different. Don't despair, though. the Hazells had one who took a long time to get through K and he turned out to be way ahead of the norm in later years.

I guess I'm most concerned that your ds is only recognizing a few numbers, more than that reading is coming along slowly. To me, that means he needs to keep in the hands-on/tactile forms of learning for a while yet. Be sure to use the salt tray, the puzzle pieces, and lots of things around the house for him to connect the symbols (letters and numbers) physically in his body to the things he can touch and hold in his hand. If he truly isn't picking much up, I might even just do the physical interaction with the letters this year and do the short vowel words next year, if need be (and it may well go quickly, taking a semester). Here's a post I wrote once about my daughter, who had to be led by the hand through the transition to letters and numbers, physically touching things as she said the words. But then she learned quickly (public schooled).
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 325#p78602

I'd also call the office. They have experience with so many individual situations!
Julie

[Canoearoo]

don't get me wrong, he is coming a long way from when we started in the fall. He can read the basic 3 letter words in the curriculum. But some letters like the letter g he can not remember at all. But we only learned that one 2 weeks ago. He didn't really know any of his letter at the beginning of the year but now he knows almost all the ones he has learned up to E (the one we are on now). As for numbers I realized around Christmas that he needed a much more hands on approach to be visual and tactile. So I bought some more helps for that. Up until 3 weeks ago he could not write anything but his first name so I ordered hand writing without tears K to add to the curriculum and this is helping a lot. But we are still working on writing his last name.

I guess my main question was what to do next year. I have taught 1st grade mfw 2 times already. So I know how fast it moves and at this point in time I do not think he will do well with it. I'm thinking of doing Kindergarten again but maybe using a different curriculum so it won't be a repeat of this year.


When I was a teacher I would have suggested that he repeat Kindergarten.

[shaffer96]

I guess if this were my kid I would focus on the phonics, writing and math next year. You could choose a different phonics program if you wish or follow the MFW K and 1st phonics. My daughter struggled with learning to read so I chose a more intense phonics program and she has improved so much! She is now in third grade and reading on grade level, which is amazing if you knew where she was coming from! I used Abeka's phonics program with her and now I have used it with my two boys as well. They are reading well above grade level. This is just my experience. There are many great phonics programs out there, as I am sure you know.

[DS4home]

I'll jump in here with another thought. It seems that you already know the answer, in that he is not going to be ready for 1st grade in the fall. Have you thought about slowing the pace of Kind down now? Start taking 2 weeks for every unit. Introducing a new letter every 2 weeks instead of every week, and really work on mastering those learned so far. Are you interested in schooling through the summer with him? If not just pick up where you left off in the fall. Maybe by then he will be ready to finish Kind at the original pace? Then start 1st mid-year whenever he is at that spot.
I just thought I'd throw that idea out there to think about. He may just not be ready for school yet, but give him time to grow and mature and when he is ready he will take off and be just fine!

Dawn

[Canoearoo]

Great idea. I will slow way down and do a lesson in 2 weeks instead of 1. I may go back and repeat some lessons as well

[Missy OH]

I think that is a good decision. A couple of my kids have needed to go slower through MFWK and 1st. I don't hold them back a grade. At some point my kids have just taken off and then they cover ground quickly you would never know they struggled in K or 1st program. You may find that after taking K more slowly for a month or two he will be ready to go back to the normal pace or maybe it will happen next year.

[wbbeachbum]

We are going through K with my 5yo right now, working on Unit 9, Octopus. The pace has seemed to work out fine up to this point. But, he's struggling with the blend ladder. It seems to be really taxing for him to put the sounds together. We did part 2 of the blend ladder yesterday, where there are 6 three-letter words to sound out. He did really well and tried so hard on the first three, but by the time we got to the fourth, he was frustrated from working so hard, poor little guy. We stopped and finished day 4 today, which went fine. He's just taking a little longer to get it than my older two did at that age. I'm not worried, just don't want to push him and frustrate him further.

So, pace wise, what are your suggestions? I thought about just stretching out each day into two, but he really doesn't need that every day. Maybe I could do a little of the blend ladder each day instead of just the two days out of 6 that it's scheduled? Thoughts? Anyone with a similar experience?

Thanks in advance!

Stretching out the blend ladder sounds and stopping each day before he gets frustrated sounds like a great plan.

FYI, trouble with the blend ladder in K was our first sign of dyslexia for 2 of our kids. Susan Barton's website has an abundance of information, including specific signs in a kindergarten age child of dyslexia.

[Julie in MN]

Just another thought.

When I did K with my grandson, sounding out words and blending the sounds together was hard for him also, especially at the stage where every single word needs to go through all the steps. I'd say that it eventually eased up around the end of K or even into 1st (his 7th birthday was early in 1st). At that point, he recognized some of the words with "fluency" -- which I think means he remembered/understood what he had done before -- so he mostly focused on blending skills for new words. But I figured he had plodded through them as many times as he needed to, in order to get to the point of both remembering and understanding. I tend to think a kid knows how long he needs to hover on something before he fully absorbs it and wants to move on.

I didn't make my grandson do every word when it was still hard and wore him out (partly because we were afterschooling, as he was going to K in Spanish). We kept going a lot of the time skipping some things, others I broke into two parts, carrying some over to his 1st grade year (I'd especially consider that with a child who is 5 for most of K).

There's a classic post by David Hazell where he talks about that with one of their kids, who I think did K at least twice. David is talking about 1st, but I think it would apply to parts of K as well. Basically, MFW-K gives kids an entire year (September to September) to absorb blending. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 618#p15618

Also, there are some misc. blending issues discussed in this K thread - not sure if one of them will match your experience: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3488

HTH,
Julie
Added later: This grandson was not a good reader until 4th grade, but after that he had a book with him almost all of the time!

[kw4blessings]

Thank you Julie!
I was hoping you'd give me some good suggestions and links! Both of those links were encouraging and helpful.

I think we'll just slow down for now and maybe go back and review the letter sounds he has learned so far so that those are solidified in his mind. I am fine with slowing both K and 1st down if we need to, just going at his pace. (As long as I work to quiet the boxer checker inside of me!) Lol.

[wbbeachbum]

Wow, I'll admit that dyslexia never even occurred to me. I did check out Susan Barton's website. He does have 3 of the symptoms mentioned on the list for recognizing dyslexia in preschoolers and kindergarteners. Can you advise me on what to do next? The test she recommends costs over $300, so I can't see doing that at this point. But, I do see the value in recognizing it early to best help him as he continues to learn. Thanks!

Reading through Julie's links and there is a comment from me about my now 10yo and waiting for her to click with blending with MFW K when she was 5. Yep, she didn't. At age 8, we did dyslexia testing through Scottish Rite (free) and started using an Orton-Gillingham reading program, which we are still working through. She can read at grade level but the spelling still has much room for improvement. It would have been much easier at 5 than at 8+, but live and learn....

While reviewing sounds it good, being able to hear the separate sounds in the words can be difficult especially the vowels and blends. Working on phonemic awareness was a big piece of the puzzle. Can he rhyme? Can he identify the number of syllables in a word? Can he tell you how many sounds are in the word "cat" and "block". Not how many letters, just how many sounds.

There are phonemic awareness games you could play prior to reading the words on the blending ladder if you find that he is missing one of these skills.

Wendy

Thanks Wendy,
I'm definitely going to keep my eye on the dyslexia warning signs with this little guy. If that is what we are dealing with I'd like to know sooner than later. I've heard of the Orton-Gillingham program before.

[kw4blessings]

Hi ladies,
I need some more help here. I just broke down to my husband about all of this...really emotional. I'm having a really hard time dealing with it. We are no strangers to learning issues. I have a child with a big delay in math and we are now learning about stealth dyslexia as a possibility as well for that one. My heart just rips apart for my little guy who sees his big brother and sister reading so much (so easily) and he's starting to think he can't. Like ever. He's always been the one of ours who has more self-esteem trouble and little words and comparisons hurt him so much. And he is trying SO hard. Why does he have to be the one who is struggling with this? How can I show him that his importance and self-worth are in our amazing Creator and not in any of his abilities or disabilities? How do you impress that on a 5 year old? This tears me apart. Sorry to pour all of that out. Just needed to vent my feelings. Through my tears...

He is trying SO hard. It's just not clicking. He did do better with the blend ladder today...putting one consonant with one vowel. He needed a little help with the first two, but then he got them! He was so excited! He still overemphasizes each letter sometimes. For example, I've taught him that "D" says "d", and not "duh". But when he's blending, it'll more often than not come out that way, at least at first: For "du" today, he said, "duh-uh" several times until I said "duh" and he followed my example. The cut and paste page was what brought me to tears (later). One word was "mom". We tried revealing only one letter at a time "m-o-m" and sounding out each sound. That went well. But when he went to put it all together, he looked at me and said, "om-ah!" He often tries to say the vowel sound first. He did get one or two of the words on his own, but I'm pretty sure he looked at the pictures as clues.

For you mamas who mentioned your children showing signs of dyslexia at this point....how long do we wait? Does the description above give you the obvious, "Don't wait!" feeling, that we should have him tested now? I would love for him to grow out of it and be like the Hazell's one son who is mentioned in Julie's link. But there's no guarantee there. My bigger concern is for his success long term and his self-esteem right now. If he is dyslexic, will the O-G method programs make him feel more successful? Would I stop using MFW (phonics portion) and use a program geared more for his learning style? So many questions.

I called our local Scottish-Rite today and they don't test for dyslexia, but were very kind and gave me a few contact numbers to try.

[gratitude]

My heart is going out to you Kelly. I have seen your posts on here for years, and can hear your tears in this post.

I am going to come from a very different perspective here, so please bear with me. I realize where today's culture is with diagnosis, early school, 4 year old start or younger, etc. I am not very on board with all of that, so this post is just a different perspective to give something to discard or think about. (My youngest has Down syndrome so I am familiar with learning at a slow pace.)

A few questions to think over:
*Is there a reason your son has to start at age 5?
*Is he wanting to read at age 5 because he thinks he is supposed to or because he really wants to?
*Does he seem like he is doing well over all if you step back from this issue? In other words, is he talking well, running, jumping, playing, active, able to sit through you reading a book, and seem like he is doing well.

I realize this goes against the advice you have so far. I am not trying to go against it though. I am only trying to give a different perspective that I have partly due to my age and how K was done in the 1970s and partly due to a historic understanding of education. I started reading at age 4, but I was so far ahead of my peers until 4th or 5th grade that is was more of a disadvantage then an advantage in a public school America that taught reading at ages 6 & 7. School in my state is still legally ages 8 - 18. Historically plenty of children throughout many generations didn't start any education until ages 9 or 10. Is there a reason you want your son to do K right now at age 5?

Honestly, my assessment as a teacher would be that he isn't ready to read. This has nothing to do with intelligence or ability or how he will be long term. He is a boy, he is very young, and to me from your description he is clearly not ready. Learning to read through tears I think will lose more ground for you long term then gain ground. If you call the office they may be able to tell which of David Hazel's CDs talk about their son that read later and ended up doing fabulous academically (at least that is the way I remember it). My second born, now 10, scores in the 99th percentile on standardized tests and didn't learn to read until age 8. I kept trying every 6 months, and at 8 it clicked. He then jumped up a grade level in reading every couple of months. He now reads around a 6th / 7th grade level in 4th grade. I have a very relaxed approach to these things though. I partly homeschooled so my children could go at their own paces. I have found some years they go very fast and some years very slow, and that both end up being fine in the end.

I would drop K at least for 6 months, and try again later when he is ready. He is only 5. I would let him play awhile longer. Most likely he will catch up and go quickly when he is ready.

You know your son best though, and that is most important of all since you will best know what he needs.

It is just a different perspective, and I hope it is helpful. it sounds like your day has already been difficult, so I hope my thoughts were helpful and not upsetting.

Blessings,

[kw4blessings]

Not upsetting at all! Your words were a balm to my soul today. I needed to hear this and was hoping for a response like this. Like Julie always says, I tend to lean towards "better late than early" myself. I am completely fine with taking a break from K for a while. I guess what was/is bothering me here is that my other two picked up reading much more quickly and they were even a bit younger. I needed this reminder that all children are different, even within the same family! I think my 5yo would be happy to play more and "do school" less. I consider myself pretty laid back as far as homeschooling is concerned, but maybe I need to be more so.

He has really enjoyed K so far, especially the one on one time with me. It is only within the past two weeks that he hasn't been excited about it. When I told him it was time to start his school this morning, he moaned and groaned. I asked him why he wasn't excited about school today and he said, "Because now it's HARD!" I knew that's what he was going to say. I think I'll just read to him for a while everyday. I've been wanting to do more of this with him and my 3 yo anyway. Maybe do some math, because he likes it! (I took a break from writing this to ask him his opinion on putting "school" off for a while and reading, playing math games, etc, instead. His eyes lit up!)

Wendy, I so appreciate your responses as well. It is good to be aware of dyslexia and the warning signs. I am going to keep all of that in mind. I loved your mention of phonetic awareness games...rhyming, syllables, etc. Do you have any good resources for ideas on this? I can be playing these games with him as we take our break!

[gratitude]

I am so glad it was helpful! I am more better late then early too, and especially with some children. My second born was my better late then early kid.

It can be very different in one family. My oldest ds, age 12, started reading at ages 3/4. My second born, ds age 10, started reading at 8. He could read a little before 8, but it wasn't much. He is quite intelligent, and definitely better late then early. My third born dd age 9, started reading a little at 4, 5, 6, & 7, didn't take a strong interest in it until 8; then she took off like a rocket with it. My youngest with DS knows some alphabet at 7. So yes, it can be very different in the same family. My second was too busy playing and using his hands to bother with reading. I kept reading out loud a lot to him, and I know that helped him when he was ready. He is doing great at age 10. He gives fabulous oral narrations and remembers very well what he reads. He is also enjoying reading at this point, so it came when it was time.

Blessings,

Thanks so much for your encouragement!

[kw4blessings]

The benefits for us for testing were many. The most important is that my child realized that he wasn't stupid. He really thought this prior to testing. Testing showed him that he had a normal IQ and just had a brain that wasn't going to process language in a certain way. What a relief! Once he had a name for it, he was able to embrace it and learn to live with it. I learned the best way to teach my children to read, write, and spell. We were also able to start the use of appropriate accommodations to keep the learning age appropriate and timely. For us, testing was a win-win.

Thanks, Wendy. I have been thinking that testing would not be a bad idea, whatever I decide to do right now. I am definitely going to look into this.

Dyslexia is not to be feared. A dyslexic brain is a wonderfully, creative brain with an abundance to offer the Kingdom. If these kids are able to keep their self-esteem intact, they can be very successful.

So I wrote all that before reading your post that you decided to postpone K. Phonemic awareness games are part of OG programs, Pre-AAR (all about reading) includes these as well. Sally Shaywitz's book "Overcoming Dyslexia includes information regarding early reading interventions. Her website that is associated with Yale's Center of Dyslexia and Creativity will have some information as well. I'm sure that a google search for phonemic awareness will yield an abundance of information.

Wisdom. I admit the thought of dyslexia scares me. It's hard enough to homeschool four kids, but add in different learning issues, and WOW! But, self-esteem is huge with this little guy. Like more huge than should be the case for a 5 yo. This is part of my emotional turmoil with all of this. I didn't know AAR had a "pre" program. I'll look into that. I was able to google a ton of phonetic awareness activities that will be a good starting place for us. And fun! Thanks again.

[MFW-Lucy]

Dear Kelly,

You have had some great help and words of wisdom from moms with varied experiences. What I share is similar to gratitude, but does not discount the possibility that you may need to seek testing and find a different way to teach. Gratitude gave you some great ideas and I agree with Mbbeachbum that continued work on phonemic awareness is great. I also wrote this last night, but did not post it. So some of it is prior to your decision today to stop K, but I wanted to still encourage you from my experiences.

I know this is hard for and you and your son and I am sorry you are struggling right now. It sounds like to me that he may just not be ready to blend yet. If he is crying and getting frustrated I would recommend not trying to push on. When we get upset our brains shut down and no matter how badly we try or want to do something we generally are not able to (this is at any age:) ). My daughter could not blend at age 5, but at age 6 she was able to do it with a lot less trouble and stress. I had no clue about this until about half way into the year, when she broke down in tears. She had been trying so hard. She progressed slowly with her reading even after we completed learning all of the phonics, but really took off during her 4th grade year. So my first thought is to put K away and come back to it next year when he is more ready. Not all kids are ready to learn to read at age 5. I like to think of it like a kids physical maturity. Some kids have the coordination early on to learn to ride a bike where as some do not learn until they are older. With this said if there is a reading issue then that will have to be addressed, but I wanted to share my experience and that of so many I have talked with that sometimes it's just a matter of readiness.

If you continue or when you start again, you may find a little more modeling and practice will be helpful. For some blending clicks right away and for others it comes more slowly. You may also find that it will help to stop even for a week or two and just practice with the words and letters you have learned so far. Some kids need a lot of modeling to learn how to blend. Hearing it modeled correctly over and over can help it click in their brain. It is o.k. to show him how to do it and have him repeat it right after you. I think we are afraid we will "help" them too much, but in this case it may be the very thing that will help them to "get it". Some kids do not start blending until later in the K year.

We are here too in the office, if you would like to talk with someone about what you are experiencing with your son. You can give me a call at 573-202-2004 and I would be happy to talk with you.

His joy and peace to you,
Lucy

[TriciaMR]

{Hugs} - having 2 out of 3 (most likely) dyslexic kids... I can tell you, it's not *that* scary I find my dyslexic kids just need more drilling and repetition than my non-dyslexic. I have to model things way more for them, over and over, before it clicks.

Yes, we adjust and accommodate, but MFW is perfect for all of that. I scribe a lot for my dyslexics.

At 5, I wouldn't worry. I know they talk about "early intervention" - but, I really didn't figure out my dd was (most likely - I've not had her formally tested) dyslexic until 3rd grade. Then I started All About Spelling (All About Reading wasn't around then) with her. Guess what? By 5th grade, she was comprehending at a 12th grade level, and reading grade level just fine. (Susan Barton's website has a list of symptoms, broken down by age. My daughter did a few of the preschool ones and lots of the elementary ones. She wasn't a late talker (was talking in paragraphs by 18 months), could rhyme, etc. So her's was a bit trickier to get. She is right-brained, but Dianne Craft's right-brained stuff didn't help her at all.)

My younger son, I started seeing a lot of the same things she struggled with in K. So, I added All About Spelling after we finished the phonics in 1st. He is reading fine. His test scores are off the charts (better than his non-dyslexic twin brother ).

Personally, I would [read to him], play games, read to him. Keep the special one-on-one time with him. Then one day, he will start to blend.

Thanks for your encouragement, Tricia! Blessings.

[MelissaB]

Was so happy to read Gratitude's and others' responses. !

For so many children, reading just doesn't "click" until age 8 or 9.

May the Lord bless you as you encourage your little Man.

[manyblessings]

Very true-all my children read at different ages. My oldest son at age 3 began to teach himself. My next daughter was ready to start at about 5 and a half, the next one at 8 and a half, the fourth at 6. My youngest is 3 and a half and we will see