Combining K & ADV - or should we all just do ADV?

[TurnOurHearts]

Combining K & ADV - or should we all just do ADV?

I am trying to decide if I should do the K program with my almost six year old ds this fall or just include him with ADV along with his older sisters.

I did the K program 2 years ago with my girls and they enjoyed it, but my son has such a short attention span. It's hard for me to imagine him actually doing the worksheets in the K program. He'll occasionally let me play learning games with him, but mostly just wants to play cars or swordfight :).

I plan on including him as much as possible in the bible, history and science in ADV. How much K should I try to add? Have any of you used K with a little boy who is only interested in fun and rough-housing? How did it work out for you? Thanks!

Hi Jennifer :)

Here are just a few thoughts to consider:

1 ~ your son would have to have some phonics/math on his own level
2 ~ MFWK has about one worksheet per day, sometimes two...
3 ~ you've already seen the precious nature of MFWK

IMHO, I would definitely do MFWK with your son. If his attention span is a short one, why not do 15 minutes of math here, 15 minutes of phonics there, and another 15 of science/bible somewhere else? It certainly doesn't have to be done all at one time. Make it work for YOU and YOUR CHILD. :)

I did ADV & MFWK at the same time, as you will be. My younger child participated in many of the activities with her older brother, but she needed a little something of her own. Go for it ~ you won't regret it!!

HTH :)

[Julie in MN]

I agree with Paige. I would at least give it a good try.

My oldest son was in constant motion up until he was 6 and started kindergarten. It was a public K, but the change in him was instant and amazing. I always said that his constant motion went from his body to his brain at that point.

Anyways, that is to say that children change from one year to the next, and I wouldn't limit him because of how he is during one period of his life.

I think it's great, though, that you're thinking about his nature and possibly adapting things for him.

[my3boys]

I am doing K with 3 boys ages 3, 4, and 6. My 4 and 6 yos are doing everything in the program, the 3yo does not do phonics. They are all enjoying the program (you can see my other post about that). We just finished another K phonics program that had workbooks and games - my boys hated it and didn't get as much out of it as I had hoped. Now with MFWK they are learning and remembering everything. The other program had so much busy work with less learning - MFWK has only one or two worksheets and an activity for every lesson and each lesson is focused on learning the letter sound and learning to write it. My boys struggle with the writing part and so I have them write two capitals and two lower case letters every lesson instead of making them do the whole handwriting page in one sitting. I have 2 2yos sitting in on the lessons and even they are getting a lot out of this program - they've learned the days of the week, counting to ten, and a lot about the science topics.

[momto6]

Jennifer,

Your son sounds just like mine and he did fine w/ MFWK. We did do it in smaller chunks depending on his attention span that day. Also, we took a full year to do it, with breaks here and there. It really worked well for us and now we are halfway through first.

HTH,
Becky

[shawnswife]

Thanks for all the encouragement and advice. My3boys, I really like your idea of having him do just a few letters each day instead of the whole worksheet at once! I'm so black and white, it's hard for me to adapt things sometimes. I tend to want to do it exactly as written or I get all tense. But I'm getting better :). I feel encouraged to try K with him. Thanks!

[TurnOurHearts]

am planning on doing Bible and Science with them both and then during DS's reading, writing, math time letting her play with the preschool puzzles. Would I do the same for 1st (keep them together for the Bible portion)? Then, what about when she gets to kindergarten and first? She would have already sat through the science and Bible, so just do it again with her or just do the reading, writing, and math for her level?

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:32 am

When we did ADV & MFWK together, we were able to do both Bible portions with no problem. My daughter got SO much out of my son's program and vice versa. We did one at breakfast & one at lunch.

I wouldn't worry about your daughter getting the Bible from K & 1st twice. She will be at a different place developmentally, spiritually, emotionally, etc., than she was the first go-round. She probably won't remember that much from when she was 3.

My advice: keep them together as much as you can. While it absolutely requires Mom to be flexible & will test your patience, overall it will benefit you in the end (and God will grow you in the process!). I have friends who have always done their children separately, and now that their children are older, they literally spend all day doing school to fit it all in.

[meagabby]

Should I teach the K curriculum to my 5-year old and do "Adventures in MFW" with my 2nd grader? It seems like it will be complicated to teach two different curricula at the same time (another reason I'm interested in MFW since they will be doing the cycles together along with their younger brother when he's old enough to start).

Hi Melanie,
I used K and Adventures together and wanted to share our experience. It was also our first year to teach two children together, so I understand your curiosity of how it all works.

The first thing I remember noticing is how well the first few weeks seemed to compliment each other and get us in a groove that was perfect for each child in their respective grades. It was very neat that both started with creation, so it didn't FEEL like I was teaching two different things to be overwhelmed with.

My Ker very much enjoyed the crafts we did with Adventures and sat in on some of the readings as well. The both like the reading in Pioneers and Patriots. We enjoyed many library books used during the state pages as well as the read alouds. I think we read Squanto three times, they liked it so much.


You have different needs, but I thought I'd share my experience with you.

[dhudson]

Hello Wise MFW Family!
I've done MFW-Kindergarten and am presently doing MFW 1st Grade. I have a 5.5, 4, 2.5 and 4 m/o. And my thought is this... I've got my hands super tied-up with all these little ones I'm doing minimum instruction with my 5 y/o right now, and she's hanging great! She loves doing MFW, and I have her doing extras. I did minimal teaching with her last year with MFW-Kinder and she did great too. She's a quick and easy learner. Probably reads at least at a 3rd grade level. I literally spend an average of less than 10 min one-on-one time with her for her lessons. I don't think this is going to last much longer and her up-and-coming 4-yr-old sister definitely needs much more one-on-one instruction.

I like the idea of teaching one thing and handing out assignments based on ability. (One of the great reasons I choose MFW was the ability to do that once we get into that 5-year cycle.... but we're talking pre-5year cycle here...)

So here's the question.... Do you (Wise HS Parents) think I could just teach MFW Kindy again next year to both of them and just supplement (my then 6.5 y/o) more challenging material to my older one? Or should I teach ADV and supplement for my younger? Or should I teach both (UGH!!) I've got all kinds of things I'm looking forward to supplement for my oldest next year like Rosetta Stone Spanish, Cursive, Math.... So you see, I've got a lot planned for her anyway.... it might just be good to have her sit in on Kindy again, rather than go with ADV. Thoughts, Please??

--Theresa

Hi!

I would use ADV as the main program for both and then use MFWK as the reading and math programs for the younger. The younger will do Bible, science, history and projects with the older in ADV and just do the reading and math basics separately. It is totally doable. I would not MFWK again with both - the older one will get bored.

Does that make sense?

[Julie in MN]

Hi Theresa,
My two thoughts are
(1) combining K or 1 with an older grade is really just doing math & reading at each child's level, and
(2) your oldest is awfully young to be starting 2nd grade.

Regarding the first thought, here is Marie's advice on how to combine:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=191 (scroll through all 3 years)

Or if you want to include your preschooler in the plan:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=642
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5222

And here are a couple of threads about combining K and ADV (or something similar):
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5634
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1312

Maybe something there will help it all sound do-able.
Julie

[HeyChelle]

I am planning on starting my (to be) 8 yo ds in ADV. I wondered about getting the Preschool Package for the (soon to be) 4 yo ds and some of the Kind. package for the (soon to be) 6 yo ds who is not reading yet, but knows most of the alphabet sounds. It looks like the Kind. has such a lot of fun activities, but I don't know if it would be too many levels and subjects to do with 3 in three different levels. What would you get?
Thanks,
Pam

Adventures for your 8 yo and Kindergarten for your 6 yo. Then I would buy an extra set of sheets so your 4 yo can work along side your 6 yo when they are interested. Otherwise they can color or play with the blocks while you work with your 6yo. I wouldn't get a whole separate curriculum for your 4 yo, unless the learning toys/tools look fun!

[Julie in MN]

The learning toys/tools *do* look fun!
If I got the extra set of sheets for the 4yo to work along side the 6 yo, would I get the Kind. sheets again the next year for him, too?

Hi Pam and welcome,
I'm thinking another option would be:
- ADV
- Extra ADV student sheets if your K child would enjoy them
- K
- MFW Preschool Package, with the preschooler listening in on ADV more than K (so K will be fresher for him next year)
- You might want to pick & choose from the deluxe portions of K & ADV, by doing only one music or art program, but the hands-on activities such as the ant farm and magnet set would probably be fun for all the kids, if you are able. If not, I might choose the ADV deluxe this year, and the next year when your preschooler is in K you could enjoy the K deluxe items to make it fresh?

Here are some more conversations:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3419 (ADV & K, plus links to related topics)
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=642 (K & pre-K)

[gratitude]

Well here is another possibility. I hope the different answers don't leave you confused!

My children are 7,5, & 4 & 2.

The 7 year old is doing ADV.
The 5 year old has recently moved on to 1st grade work, but started the year with K. He participates in much of ADV, but not the sheets.
The 4 year old has the Lauri toys (we do some) and the Pre-school books from Rod & Staff (she Loves workbooks; my boys would not have liked these at 4, but she loves it).

I would suggest ADV, K, and if you want to have some time with your four year old the Lauri toys (your older children will probably enjoy them from time to time too)

Blessings!

[Buttercup78]

My children were 4, 5, 7 at the beginning of this school year. We are doing Adventures. My 5yo is doing Adv. with her own math & LA of course. It's going great. She does all the student sheets. For summaries, she tells me a short summary, I write it and she copies it. They both love Pioneers & Patriots and the read-alouds; it's their favorite part of school. My 4yo is not interested in school at all and I just recently started him on a preschool workbook. We will move on to Rod & Staff ABC Series in the fall with him. I think it really depends on your kids. Everyone has given a lot of good ideas!

[Mexmarr]

If you did/are doing Adventures with a kiddo the recommended age (2nd-ish) and have a Kindy (or youngster) tagging along, what did you buy for the kindy? I see that one might need the US placemat/map, art book/marker cards, student sheets, anything else?

My youngster that would tag-along is very much interested in what older sister is doing and will certainly, without a doubt, want to do what sissy is doing. Plus, I love the idea of learning together as a family.

However... I haven't completely decided if little sister will begin MFW K as her own or if I will just sort of roll her in with big sissy in Adventures, she would then do her own LA/math from other resources. Decisions, decisions. So, I guess I am looking for recommendations, as well, as far as what to do with kindy girl... roll her into Adventures (skip over MFW K) with big sissy and buy her the second student resources for that, or place her in MFW K as her own program and not worry too much about combining her into Adventures. I guess it boils down to trying to pretty much "combine" them in Adv. now, as a 2nd grader and a Ker, or place Ker in MFW K as her own thing and casually include her in Adventures?

Of course, time is always an issue. I feel like I constantly struggle with balancing our homeschool commitments with life in general. I feel like together-time works best overall yet, I want to meet the individual needs of my kiddos as well. What did you do, or what would you do? I stay awake at night thinking about this stuff : ) Thanks very much.

Definitely combine!

I just combined a Ker and 2nd grader in Adventures. Adventures is a very fun year. My Ker did everything except the writing aspects. You do need the student sheets for her. She will be able to use most of them to some degree or another. My Ker followed along and pretty much learned everything her big sister did.

However, don't skip K entirely. She still needs the phonics. You need a good foundation in learning to read. We omitted the K science, Bible and stuff, and just did the phonics. So, we basically did just the yellow pages, Day 1-6.

That will end up looking like Adventures - together
2nd grader, own math and LA
Ker, own math and phonics

This is very very doable and a very productive year for all involved.

An example of the writing changes I made for Adventures. When big sister had to color and write about a historical person, little sis colored and copied his name. Other than little things like that, little sister did and loved everything.


Rereading your post and your comment about time. The way I mentioned about is definitely more time productive than doing them separate, even though you are using the K curriculum. The phonics takes about 15-20ish minutes a day. Very essential, imo, but not time consuming. It is all the science and activities that use the bulk of the time. That is what I would replace with Adv.

I LOVE the together time. It really promotes family bonding and sisterly love to work together. I loved it.

[cbollin]

I'm not sure I have anything of value to add in as my situation with my youngest with autism doesn't always fit most situations..

My most recent time I had a K child, she was in MFW and the other 2 were in ECC. My kindy kid was doing a relaxed version of K. We did the math, and phonics. She'd go and play. I'd work with other kids. We'd invite her to join us in anything fun we were doing - music, crafts, food, flag sheet to look at..... we'd get back to her Kindy lessons with activities later in the day on most days. so we were together, but we weren't only using one manual. I had to do what was right for my youngest with special ed stuff too.

I like what Misty is saying. Combine what you can! use MFW K for the 3 r's kind of stuff. so listen to her.

I think there's a note in the ADV manual about combining them..... I think it suggests that Kindy children do their phonics and math from MFW K, combine with olders in ADV, then, as time/energy permits, do some of the Kindy activities if you are able and have time. Just invite the youngers to join in the food, fun, crafts, stickers, whatever. If all a 5 year young child got was MFW K for phonics and math, and exposure to older sibling in ADV, that's enough. Anything else would be icing on the cake as the saying goes. That's pretty much what Misty said.

I am so looking forward to hearing from those who are with younger families. I love hearing all of those tweaks and little ways that it works for others.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Just some more conversations to help you sleep at night

Combining Adventures and K - Scheduling? http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3419
Combining K alongside an OLDER program http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=1312
Student sheets -- Useful for younger siblings? http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=10088

Julie

[Bandy]

Misty, thank you! I really appreciate hearing how you approached things when combining. Combining makes a lot of sense here especially as I juggle other things. I don't know how larger families do it!
I could see us working it out how you mentioned and being successful. Did you do the "I Can Do All Things" art with your second grader? If so, did your younger one join with that as well? I am wondering about possibly needing to get my younger one the art book/marker cards as well.

Crystal, thanks! I appreciate hearing how you worked with your Ker back then along with the other two. I would be fine with having my little one do some math and LA and then come and go with Adventures if she wanted to. Just certainly want her to have an open invitation to join us and actually have something for her to do with us that promotes that family learning.

Julie, you are the bomb with providing helpful links all the time, thank you! Much to consider with this but I think I will try and combine and see how it goes.
How complicated can it be, right!

Thank you, all for taking the time out to advise me, I certainly appreciate it.

[Mexmarr]

Misty, Did you do the "I Can Do All Things" art with your second grader? If so, did your younger one join with that as well? I am wondering about possibly needing to get my younger one the art book/marker cards as well.

I actually got a 2nd set of the Art - a whole 2nd book. And no regrets! I can't imagine a Ker not being thrilled to do the art. If you only have one book, you will be making a LOT of copies. ANd in the end, one will have a book of completed art, while the other has a random stack of papers, assuming they didn't get lost. If you can swing it, I'd get a 2nd set, but it is definitely not essential, just a nice thing to have.

[Caryn]

I totally agree with what the ladies here have said My second was actually 1st grade, but it's the same principle.

I also found some of the inexpensive "State" coloring books, and let the 1st grader color while we read. There was no way he was going to just sit while we read. So he colored. Otherwise you can get a second set of the state sheets and let your k'er color the flower, bird etc along with your Adventurer!

It really worked well for both, as long as my 1st grader was "doing" and not just listening.

[Bandy]

Fantastic, thank you, all!
I feel like I have some direction with this.

[gratitude]

I will have a 2nd and 3rd grader doing ADV this fall. I was planning on having my k'er tag along in ADV. Now I am having second thoughts. I own a phonics program I like and was planning on [buying a math] set and an extra set of ADV student sheets, paint cards and place mats. By the time I spend the $86+, I might as well buy MFW K basic (I already have many of the deluxe items). Plus, the fact that it is a new edition with a grid and updated books, I am kinda excited. I know K would be the perfect level for him because I haven't taught him any letters yet. &) And I feel like I have neglected his education because of how much I work with the others (to be 3rd grader is dyslexic and takes a lot of my time).

But, I am worried how long K will take me and that it is a 5 day a week schedule (we only school 4 days a week). I also worry what my k'er will do when both his other siblings are doing school. So....what would you choose? What do you think would be best?

I understand the feeling of neglecting a third born's education a little bit. I feel the same way with my dd who recently turned 5. &)

I can tell you what I am doing.
*I started the Lauri cards about 3 weeks ago, and they are fun. What a great 15 minutes a day to help prepare her for MFWK.
*My ds8 is currently doing ADV. I did not buy the student sheets at first for her or ds6, but I ended up buying them after the first few days because they wanted to color too. It is also a great way to give them something to do while I read the ADV lessons. I also know they will love the state sheets and stickers. They both did the Drawing book for MFW1 already so they are doing I CAN DO ART with ds8. (My five year old though is advanced in drawing for age 5; my boys would not have done well with I CAN DO ART at 5).
*I am planning on doing MFWK with her next year fall 2012 Sept. My boys will switch to ECC around Thanksgiving or Christmas. She needs the phonics and the phonics base for MFW1. I would like to do the whole program of MFWK with her if I can. If I can not manage it I will at a minimum do the character lessons/Bible verses/math/phonics. I have no idea if I will order ECC sheets for the same reason I ended up buying the ADV. It seems to me though that if she is doing MFWK it would be too much for her to do the ECC sheets too. I could be wrong though; she likes to draw and color and may want to do some. I will continue with I CAN DO ART with her with MFWK.

I hope this helps.

[Poohbee]

I've gone through K twice, with each of my older two, and I LOVE MFW K! It only takes about 1 hour to do each day. The units are arranged to be 6 day units. It works just fine to just do the next day on the next day you have school. You don't need to try to squeeze each 6-day unit into 4 days. Just do the next day scheduled for K on your next day of school. I'm probably not being very clear. I hope this makes sense. So, K does not require a huge time investment, but the kids get so much from that hour of instruction each day.

At that age (and even now still for my 1st grader), my K student still loved to play. So, after her hour of Kindergarten, she was free to go and play. Both this year, doing both CtG and 1st, and last year, doing ECC and K, we started our day together doing the Bible from the upper program. Then, I had a folder of independent work for my older dd to do so that I could work with my younger dd. Some of my oldest's independent subjects are silent reading; handwriting; typing, foreign language, and math drill (on the computer); etc. My oldest works through her independent work while I work with my youngest. Then, my youngest is free to go and play while I work with my oldest.

It is definitely do-able for you to do K along with ADV.

[far above rubies]

I've used K twice--the first time with my oldest and now with ECC.

When we did ADV last year, my then K4er did very well tagging along with her older siblings.

I understand what you mean about using what you already have vs. buying something new. I've used MFW and another curriculum together and it worked well, but I've found that as our family grows, the different components really do work well together. I know that I'm going to be DONE with school after 3 hours (maybe 4, if we do everything on the page) and sometimes sooner. That's a big plus to me. From what I understand, all of the programs have been written so that everything fits in nicely.

We do K during Book Basket time. My children have 20 minutes of book basket and that's usually all it takes for us to do the lesson in K, but we've got it down to a routine now and know what to expect.

My dd does ask all morning, "Is it time for my school yet"?

Sometimes we've done her school first, while the other children do their independent work, but it usually works out best to do it when the others are having book basket, that way I can work with the older children without interruption.

And of course I'd use any excuse to get the new manual.

[tabrett]

Thanks all.
If you are doing k with another MFW program, are you doing all of k, or are you doing k phonics and math only?

Should I do all of MFW k and try to have him tag along in ADV?

I am starting to think the only thing he might really want to do is the state sheets and stickers.

[gratitude]

Should I do all of MFW k and try to have him tag along in ADV?

Right now my dd5/Pre-K is tagging along in ADV by coloring ADV student sheets (it helps keep her involved) and doing the art & hands on and science that she can do.

Once she starts MFWK in the fall I don't plan on having her do the student sheets from ADV any longer, or with ECC when we switch next fall sometime. I am sure she will still join in on some of the hands on and science experiments and art. MFWK though, by itself, will have enough to do without ADV or ECC sheets. Now will I end up being wrong, and will she end up doing both?

Blessings for your decision.