EFRU - Help with specific instructions

[cbollin]

Definitions - when to write them, when to look them up

My confusion is this: when the student writes the derivatives underneath the definition on Monday, does he also write the definition? On Tuesday's plan which indicates to look up the definition of the derivation in the dictionary (there's some alliteration for ya!), it only says to discuss it, not write it out. If he's already written the definition on Monday, what would be his motivation to look up the definition in the dictionary on Tuesday? If anyone can enlighten this confused mom, I'd appreciate it.

Also to clarify, the definition is underlined in red and the derivatives are underlined in blue, right? The book says that, but doesn't show it on the root word pages.
Diana in IL

Here's what I did. Not sure if this was the intention, but did it anyway.

On Mondays, we wrote on our note card one or two derivatives and their definitions.

We used the dictionary time on Tuesday to have practice using a dictionary to learn about all the little parts of a dictionary (pronunciation guide, looking up parts of speech, word origins, etc.). I would choose one or two different words to look up than what was already on our note card.

And on the color guide lines: we put the root word on the blank side of the note card. On the lined side of the notecard, on the top line (which our cards were pre printed in red) we put the definition. On the other lines of the notecard we just wrote the derivations and a small definition.

hope that helps a bit.
--crystal

[Julie in MN]

Diana,
I agree with Crystal. On Monday you make the full card. You can just create it according to the Roots Up example. Main root on the front, definition at the top red line on the back, and words/definitions under that.

For my 4th grader, I selected the most common words and omitted the more obscure examples. Usually he wrote 4, although occasionally 2 or 3. Occasionally I used a word not in the Roots Up book.

And yes, I admit, I wrote the definition out for him (severe pencil allergy, he claims LOL!).

On Tuesday, I considered dictionary work a separate skill, needing attention at some point in school, so this was a great time to do it. Alphabetizing taken to the full extent, not just according to the initial letter. And as a bonus, we were reviewing our Roots Up vocabulary while doing it. The words have only recently been learned, after all, and need more discussion than just one day, IMHO. Often ds & I would read from different dictionaries -- the intermediate dictionary had simpler definitions, and the full dictionary confirmed the word origins. By the way, dictionary day is only in CTG and by RTR the skill has probably been mastered.

If you were *only* doing Roots Up (without MFW), you would just make the cards and hope that your students would spontaneously look up related words (according to the description in Roots Up). It was much less effective when I did it that way with my older dd. The MFW additions have made it a true vocabulary program for us!

Julie
P.S. Don't overlook the game suggestions in the CTG manual at about week 17 -- my ds adores the continuing story game :o)

[mdfriederich]

Thank you Crystal and Julie!
Your posts helped; I understand it better now. So much I'm trying to process as I'm planning for the start of CtG in a few weeks!

Wondering if anyone had experience doing this with multiple children? I have a 7.5 dd, 9.5ds, 11.5dd whom I will be using the program with and deciding how to schedule this into their morning, as group or individual time. We've been having some trouble with group time due to resistance issues in the 9.5ds, and just curious if any with multiples in the program want to share their experiences.

Thanks,
Diana in IL

[kellybell]

Well, we do all three big kids at once. Maybe you could do that and make sure that you take a few seconds to check. If 9 yo doesn't do the work, save it for when dad gets home from work.

[Amy in NC]

Am I understanding this right? The child looks up EACH word in the dictionary that is listed in the box for that particular root word? For example...BIBLIO......all the words in the box will be looked up in the dictionary? Will any dictionary have all those words in it?
Deb

Deb,
I'm not sure if it's the right way or not, but I do have my girls look up the words (at least several) and we have not found all the words in our dictionary. I have been helping them find where the word would be if it were there. For example, the first week we found bibliophile but not bibliophobia. We talked about how -phobia would come after -phile. I'm trying to focus on the skill of using the dictionary and not just finding a particular word.
HTH

[MJ in IL]

Hi Deb!

I think we did it similar to Amy just mentioned. What we did was to get out 3 dictionaries at differing levels. Each child would look up the root to see how many words began with that root. Then the youngest, with the children's dictionary, would read a word and def. and we would rotate through several, depending on our time for the day.

I used it more as a dictionary skills day than "find all the 'biblio' words." Later, I also had dd, in particular, think up and then look up other words that might have the root in it, although not at the beginning.

We had fun with this book, learned a lot, but didn't get too bogged down on any of the days.

[Julie in MN]

Hi Deb,
Agreeing with the others that it was dictionary skills being learned more than word definitions. I was very glad to see this, since finding dictionary keywords is on our MN standardized tests :o) and dictionary use in general comes in handy!

What I had ds do is look up the words that he had chosen to write on the back of his card. Ds was in 4th grade during CTG and I just glanced through his cards. I had him choose 4 words for the majority of them, sometimes more and sometimes less. For "biblos" he only has 2 -- I think I only had him write words that I felt he might actually run into by 12th grade! The rest were just for fun, seeing the range of words out there for specialized situations.

Julie

[Toni@homezcool4us]

This is not my understanding. They are not to look up all the words that are in the box (unless you have an older student and prefer them to learn all the derivatives, per week 1 Monday's vocabulary notes). Rather, they look up only those derivatives that you selected for your particular student to copy and study. Refer to week 1, Tuesday's notes for clarification.

So, example:
My student is a 9yo "4th" grader. For biblos, I scanned the list of derivatives and decided that three words were a) enough and b) practical (meaning she is likely to come across them at some time).

The words she worked on were bible, bibliography and bibliophile. So those are the words she looked up in the dictionary and not the entire list of derivatives.

[Lucy]

This is not my understanding. They are not to look up all the words that are in the box (unless you have an older student and prefer them to learn all the derivatives, per week 1 Monday's vocabulary notes). Rather, they look up only those derivatives that you selected for your particular student to copy and study. Refer to week 1, Tuesday's notes for clarification.

So, example:
My student is a 9yo "4th" grader. For biblos, I scanned the list of derivatives and decided that three words were a) enough and b) practical (meaning she is likely to come across them at some time).

The words she worked on were bible, bibliography and bibliophile. So those are the words she looked up in the dictionary and not the entire list of derivatives.

This how we did it as well. One thing I always remembered from those notes is that the main goal is to learn the meaning of the root and that the secondary goal(and less important ) is to learn the meaning of the words copied on the card. You will find this in the Teaching tips that Toni mentioned.

So feel very free to adjust the amount of words on the card for your child. We did do the dictionary skills because like Julie this was an important skill for my kids to learn and this is when MFW had written it in for my kids to learn this skill.

Hope that helps,
Lucy

[cbollin]

When having your child write the sentences on day 3 of EFTRU, I need to clarify that I understand what the week is supposed to look like.

Day 1 each week - introduce the new vocabulary word(s) and create the new cards.

Day 2 - use dictionary to look up new words and variations of that word.

Day 3 - write sentences using the new vocabulary "root" word or the variations that are on the blue lines of the new card?

We did a lot of these sentences out loud.

We used the derivatives instead of the root. So, I remember trying to help them learn this skill and would offer suggestions. "Our friend Jan is a bibliophile, because she LOVES her books and loves to share her huge collection with us."

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Annie,
My ds does most of his "writing" on the computer so I have all his old stuff right here. Here are the first three roots in his 4th grade folder. You can see that he did it all different ways.

• 09/12/05 Biblos
  *Last week I read a good BIBLOS.
  *I checked the BIBLIOGRAPHY to find the part of the BIBLOS I wanted to read more about.
  *A BIBLE is a Jewish/Christian special book that tells about God, Jesus, and the holy spirit.
  
  09/19/05 Sauros
  *There are TONS of DINOSAURS such as ALLOSAURUS, BRONTOSAURUS, and TYRANNOSAURUS.
  
  09/20/05 Photos
  *(jack) hey bill! (bill) hey jack! (jack) wanna draw a picture with light!? (bill) what?!?! (jack) yeah! U just take a photograph of something and there ya go! (bill) SWEET!!…
  *Plants use photosynthesis to get food!
  *Scientist like me (Professor showoff) use a word called photon for measurement!
  *Telephoto is a lens that could take a picture of someone on a top of a mountain!

Also remember that your child is young and only one or two words based on the root would be needed, unless you have an interest in doing more. Here are some ways that other folks used EFRU:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1928

[cbollin]

Hi, we've just started CtoG. I have a question regarding the vocab cards for the Greek root words. Are we supposed to be learning all of the root words that are to go on the back of the card as well as the main root? For instance, do we just learn biblos = book? Or are we supposed to learn that plus, (listed with the derivative definitions) graph=write, klastos=broken, klepto=steal, etc.? We were just focusing on biblos, but then in the tm, it told us to review all our "roots" (plural) today. Hmm.

Thanks for any answers and advice on this (English from the Roots Up). The author is so enthusiastic and it all seems a bit intimidating to me.

Rebecca

I'm sure doing it either way is fine. some children will be in 8th grade and can handle more...
you'll be fine either way.

[Cyndi (AZ)]

We only study the root that is listed on the front of the card.

Then, when we did "thesis" - my dd put together "photo," "syn" and "thesis" and we did a happy dance that it all made sense. She said, "Wow, those greeks were really smart!"

[Joyhomeschool]

I just review all the roots we've learned so far. We dont even go over the words we write on the back of the card. Just the root and its meaning.

[MelissaB]

What should I expect from. 8 yo (9 in October) when it comes to "sentence day" with the Greek words? Should she just make up sentences for the simpler, easy to understand words? She already copies all of the complicated words on day one.
Erna

Hi, Erna -

We did Greek last year and are doing Latin now. If it were me, I think I would have the 8 (or 9:) yr. old say simple sentences verbally, using one or two words from the list. The goal being to memorize the meaning of the root, a few sentences using that root would probably help them achieve that goal without making Greek a drudgery.

I can still remember our dd at the end of last year sitting on the kitchen counter creating "new" words by combining the Greek words she'd learned that year, and giggling uncontrollably. What a fun year!- Enjoy!

Melissa B.

[asheslawson]

Hard to say for sure - mine was 11 doing this last year - but my 2nd grader who will be 8 in September starts this next week for RTR - so I will be trying to figure out what works best for a younger child. However - my 11 year old wanted to make SUPER simple sentences instead of trying harder...such as, "That is a photometer," or, "He is a bishop." I struggled with this as I knew he could write a sentence that would help someone who didn't know the meaning of the word know what it meant. I encouraged him to try harder, such as, "The scientist used a photometer to measure light," or, "The bishop quietly lit the candles as the service began."

To do this - I offered 'spruce up points' for exceptional sentences or other writing assignments. I did this for both of them - when I saw they had put extra effort into their school work. These spruce up points, which I did not give out lightly, earned them the privilege of staying up a few minutes later to play in their room before bed or extra video game time (whatever works for your family). My magic number was 15 spruce up points.

[Erna]

Thank you for the suggestions. I decided to do the sentences orally. We just had fun making up sentences for the more complicated ones together. It was more light-hearted and enjoyable. I think we will continue to do it this way. She will accomplish the goal even if it is not written down.

[Julie in MN]

That's a good idea, Erna. I think chatting and making those sentences will help insure she understands how to use them in a sentence, but there won't be any pressure and everyone can contribute.

My son was about 4th grade, but he liked to do silly things. He'd try to put as many words as possible into one sentence. Or here are some other silly things he did:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 875#p65875
(last paragraph - oooh "paragraph" is another "para") http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 7484#p7484

Also, after several weeks there will be some games in the manual, and they involve inventing sentences and such.
Julie

[MelissaB]

Thank you for the suggestions. I decided to do the sentences orally. We just had fun making up sentences for the more complicated ones together. It was more light-hearted and enjoyable. I think we will continue to do it this way. She will accomplish the goal even if it is not written down.

That sounds perfect!

[Buttercup78]

I have a 2nd-grader, and a 4th-grader with writing issues, so I have them each do one sentence using their choice of word from the list.

[Julie in MN]

What is the purpose of looking up the words in the dictionary when you have already copied the definition from the book?

Hi Missy,
My first thought was "dictionary skills." I've seen whole workbooks on that skill, but Marie managed to fold it into EFRU. Alongside that, the student may be seeing whole groups of words related to the word they are studying, nearby in the dictionary.

Since it's been a while for me, I looked around to see if I was on the right track there. I found a post when it all was fresher in my mind:

On Tuesday, I considered dictionary work a separate skill, needing attention at some point in school, so this was a great time to do it. Alphabetizing taken to the full extent, not just according to the initial letter. And as a bonus, we were reviewing our Roots Up vocabulary while doing it. The words have only recently been learned, after all, and need more discussion than just one day, IMHO. Often ds & I would read from different dictionaries -- the intermediate dictionary had simpler definitions, and the full dictionary confirmed the word origins. By the way, dictionary day is only in CTG and by RTR the skill has probably been mastered.

If you were *only* doing Roots Up (without MFW), you would just make the cards and hope that your students would spontaneously look up related words (according to the description in Roots Up). It was much less effective when I did it that way with my older dd. The MFW additions have made it a true vocabulary program for us!
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 928#p10300

Thanks! So I'm thinking this is something I can leave out without affecting things too much if my student doesn't need practice. With 7 kids to deal with I just want to make sure I'm getting the best bang for my time. yk?

Yes, I think it could be easily left out if your student didn't need practice on (a) the word or (b ) the dictionary, alphabetizing, etc. In fact, it is left out of RTR (there are almost twice as many Latin roots, though).

Julie