Encouragement Needed - Do all children like school?

[chatmom]

My 10 year old daughter has been homeschooled all except kindergarten. She doesn't want to go to "real" school, but she hates school. I know all kids do but I've always wished homeschool could be different. Any ideas?

Also, she hates creative writing the most. I literally can't get her to do it. She will sit there and cry losing all privileges and still refuse to do it.

Why must she do creative writing? It is not critical... is there another type of writing that she would do - an essay or report on a topic? Education is not optional, but tailoring it can be done so that neither ends the day in tears.

Perhaps a timer? She must stay on a given task for a short period of time. For example - if you are completely sold on the merits of creative writing and want her to do it - then she does it in short periods. It could also be overwhelming - and she can't find a way to begin.

Another possibility is to do it "one sentence at a time" - where you alternate adding sentences to the story. Kind of like the game where everyone contributes to the story.

[cbollin]

She's 10, so I would call "creative writing" by a new name: Tell me a story about.....

find a way to record it (audio, camera, whatever)
You type it when she is done.
If she wants to draw a picture with it, ok.

Do you have some kind of visual organizer to help her organize a beginning, middle and end to the story?

Have you done a lot of narrations from read alouds with her yet?
and what are you currently using for Language Arts?

you might want to google search on "narration cube", or search the archives over here for narration techniques. I think it is important for a child to be able to retell other people's stories first, before trying to make up their own stories out of the blue. Once they are more practiced at retelling favorite stories that they are hearing, it gets easier to create.

One other idea is to get a favorite short picture book of your child's.
Have her use the structure of that story and change things around. Give characters new names. Change some of the story so it is in a new place.

practice all of that out loud without much expectation of written work this year.
then, slowly as she sees you writing some of her "new"stories, she might be more interested in trying to write her own.

It's hard to come up with creative ideas, and it is very much ok to practice with other ideas as a learning tool.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

I totally agree with chatmom that creative writing isn't necessary.
And I totally like crystal's ideas for making it work, if you want to.

I have one child who couldn't make something up, ever. And I have one who makes up so much that I have to have him go back and rewrite his history summaries to be truthful. Same parents Both can be difficult, and homeschooling is great for both.

To me, personally, creative writing often felt like a waste of time. In college composition, I remember being annoyed about an assignment to write about "my favorite place" and so I wrote about the laundromat and still got a good grade. Helping her rework the assignment to her tastes might be another idea, and that could be useful in her future.

Here are some narration ideas that crystal mentioned:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=500

Here is some encouragement about not liking school. Sometimes a kid just isn't the academic sort, but we must go on. Page two talks about some motivation techniques.
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=3909

[Cyndi (AZ)]

And I have one who makes up so much that I have to have him go back and rewrite his history summaries to be truthful.

I can sooo relate to that. Sorry for the hi-jack, but thanks for the laugh!

Don't all kids at some point "hate" school? I couldn't resist a thread with that name. Sometimes my dd will have a "hates school" day and then I will find her teaching her dolls and stuffed animals in the afternoon! I've actually seen by eavesdropping on her school-sessions with her dolls how she likes to learn. It involves a LOT of writing on the white board, and a LOT of talking through a subject. I don't know if that applies to you - but I like what Julie said about reworking her assignments to her taste.

[Wendy B.]

I have one child who couldn't make something up, ever. And I have one who makes up so much that I have to have him go back and rewrite his history summaries to be truthful. Same parents Both can be difficult, and homeschooling is great for both.

I understand this completely!

I'm clearly in the not teaching creative writing camp. My oldest daughter writes creatively despite never being "taught" by mama.....unless you count the year I bought her the One Year Adventure Novel curriculum. She just wrote a 564 pg novel during her summer break which is actually pretty good. On the other hand, my oldest son will never write a creative line in his life if he can help it. His letters home from bootcamp were these pathetic 5 liners that he suffered through so mama would know that he was still alive.

Just so you know, they both can write a college level "A" essay. It takes my son about 1 hour and my daughter can spend a week on it. Both will get an "A". Creative writing isn't a battle I'd be willing to fight.

"Hates" school? Yikes. I've been hsing for 15+ years and although my kids would rather do many things besides schoolwork I would never say they hated school. What's going on to cause the conflict? Little tweaks can make a big difference!

Just to be perfectly clear......when I announce a "no-school" day my kids jump for joy! But they are also able to get through a full school day with minimal grumbling.

HTH

[TriciaMR]

My dd used to hate school... (She went to preschool, and has been homeschooled since.)

It was all about me... Okay, 95% about me... I was wanting every blank filled, every i dotted, every t crossed, every item in the T.M. checked off, every worksheet completed. My dh called me "military mom." Our relationship was awful. Not that she didn't love me, but I was letting school work come between us.

The 5% that was about my dd... writing is difficult for my dd. Not coming up with what to write or being creative. The physical act of writing was difficult. Still is. So, the first thing I did was let her dictate to me and I would write it out and she would copy it. (Less spelling and punctuation errors that way, too.) Second thing I did was do a lot of stuff orally. I also added in some Dianne Craft Brain Integration Therapy exercises to help with that. Not sure that it really did help, or if there was a maturity thing. My dd still can't spell that well, but we're working on it. Started reading more to her, snuggling on the couch for math instead of "this must be done at the desk," letting her do things slightly differently if it really didn't matter. (An example: there was a lesson in PLL where she was suppose to write a letter to someone asking him if he left his pocketknife at some party. We changed it to her best friend leaving a headband at dd's birthday party.)

Even after me working hard at not being so hard on her and some of the other things above, we still had attitude issues. I think she had gotten in the habit of having a bad attitude. So, we started a "chip cup" (this was probably about 2 months into the school year after I had backed off so much). If she displayed a bad attitude I would take a chip from her cup (she started with 20). If she got down to 15 there were no bad consequences, but no rewards either. If she got less than 15 then chores were added (I think we only went below 15 once). After a while (2 or 3 weeks), I also made it so she could earn chips back by having a good attitude or helping with chores with a good attitude. If at the end of the "school day" she had 20 chips, there was a reward. Less than 20, more than 15 no reward. 15 - 13 one extra chore, 12 - 10 2 extra chores, etc.

But really, my dd hating school was mostly about me being too hard on her. She mostly loves school now. There are subjects that she doesn't like much (math and spelling), but she does them without complaining and works hard on them. I give her lots of praise and love. And I am less worried about doing every single project, assignment, or worksheet that might be listed in the T.M.

Just one mom's story...

-Trish

[1974girl]

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[Wendy B.]

It was all about me... Okay, 95% about me...

Your story reminded me of part of mine.

A long time ago when my olders were under 10s, I was having a daily battle with a wiggly boy who just wouldn't sit still.

Their father --who was a successful CEO of a major hospital --spent a few weeks working from home and I noticed that he never sat in one place for longer than 1 hour. He would get up, move around, do something else productive before coming back to his desk. It worked for Dad so I made sitting down optional in our homeschool. That little tweak eliminated a majority of the conflict between my son and I. I thought he looked uncomfortable doing his math while standing at his desk and I still think reading while walking around the sofa is strange but it worked for him.

This rather unorthodox solution hasn't caused lasting damage to him. He just graduated Top in Class in his A-School for the Navy.

HTH

[cbollin]

Please tell me it will one day just click and he will LOVE it! We are in ECC this year and have book basket everyday. He doesn't complain at all but he just looks at pictures and it seems he never actually reads what the book says. He listens to the read aloud with out complaining but is never eager to read on or go to the next chapter even if the previous one ends in suspense. Will he ever like or love it? Are there people who never like to read? I feel like if our children love to read then they can and will learn anything! Thanks for any advice!

of course there are people who may never enjoy reading, or don't take it up as a hobby.

You're doing the right stuff to encourage him to engage with books at a level he is ready for. He's checking out captions on pictures and enjoying that.

My dad was never big into books. I think I remember him saying that he read one book in high school. The Old Man and the Sea. to my amazement, he was visiting us and we had book basket out and my dad picked up some of the books, flipped through, said "that's interesting" and then he paid attention while I did a chapter from a read aloud (Courage to Run) and then, of all things, he picked up the book and finished it on his own.

My dad will read lots of technical manuals to learn things. So, he still learns stuff. In his 40's he decided to become a pilot (private aircraft) and learned from reading and hands on stuff. Then he got into computer repair.

It's alright. He reads when he wants to. He's in his upper 60's. Still learning stuff, just not a big fiction reader.

-crystal

[TriciaMR]

I have a good friend who doesn't like reading. For me, it's a way of relaxing. She doesn't get into it at all. I get all wrapped up in the stories. So, I think for some people, it's never a thing they really enjoy.

-Trish

[Julie in MN]

Does he enjoy listening to nonfiction? Some folks are just nonfiction-ey types. My dh had never read a novel until he was about in his 30s when he really liked a movie so he read the book. He just felt there was so much "true" stuff out there that he didn't have time for it all, so why spend time reading fiction? Also, as a kid he was just too active and too into family to just read about someone else

My youngest is very similar to dh, but he LOVES when I read exciting stories aloud. He really got into the ECC recommendations for fairy tales when I would read them to him (Rapunzel, Hansel & Gretel, etc), since we hadn't read fairy tales when he was little.

I guess we're each unique. At least your son doesn't complain -- I'd say that shows good character

He does like non-fiction. In fact, he would prefer to LOOK at non-fiction only (science, weather, animals, places type books). When he does ask me to read to him (which is not very often) it is from non-fiction.
Honestly though, I think about MFW HS and even upper elementary actually even now with ECC with all of the great literature and I just don't want it to be a struggle or something he dreads. I want it to be something that he enjoys and looks forward to. Maybe that will come in time and maybe it won't (which makes me nervous). I often think, how can one get by without enjoying to read if it is such a large part of a good education. Well now I'm rambling. You're right Julie. At least he is not complaining

I was right there with you on the worrying about high school reading with my son. He likes to listen but has never read a book by choice. You'll have to follow his progress in high school

So far in AHL, he's doing fine. I get a lot of audiobooks. And he does love the Bible, so that "large book" is no problem for him. Maybe your son will like the opportunity to read the whole thing too 'cause it's nonfiction

Also a response to prayer was a book club for boys that another mom invited my son to join in around 6th grade. He's still a member and it's helped him voluntarily read fiction "because we're supposed to read 3 chapters this week." The boys discuss and some stories have drawn him in. Then they go do phy ed after, which is part of the draw

Julie

[1974girl]

My husband read a full book LAST YEAR and was excited he read a book. I have one who loves to read and one who doesn't. It is a necessary evil during school times and I loved to read as a child. But one of mine hates it, too. SO if you come up with the answer....let me know.

[sixtimemom]

I can't promise your child will LOVE to read but he is still young so keep reading to him and offering him good books.

I have three boys and all three were what I call delayed readers. Reading didn't click with them till later...like 10-12 years old. My oldest son graduated last year and he read Animal Farm and The Jungle and enjoyed both of them. He reads his Bible and likes to get on the internet and read up on how things work. I also see a few Tom Clancy novels in his room. He is not someone who LOVES to read.

My husband does not LOVE to read at all....

My middle son didn't really start enjoy reading till he was around 11, he is now 13. He probably wouldn't just pick up a book to read [unless it's about super heroes] but he does read the books I assign him. The youngest son is finally at a place where reading is starting to click and he just turned 11. He likes to read but doesn't read well yet....but it's improving.

Not sure this encourages you but just wanted to let you know you are not alone in regards to having a child who does NOT love to read.

And lest I forget I have one daughter who just started MFW High School who is NOT a reader....does not love to read....and is doing just fine. I got some books on tape but she didn't like how slow they read so she is preferring to read the books on her own...she is currently reading The Iliad.

All my children do enjoy my reading out loud to them but they don't clamor for me to read more very often....even if I left off at a suspenseful spot. I always felt a bit envious of those families that talk about how much their children LOVE to read. Of six children only ONE of my children love to read....sigh

So in answer to your question....no....not everyone loves to read. But when my children want to know something they have no problem looking it up and reading more about it.

[NCJessieRN]

Thank you Debbie! YES this is encouraging!

[TriciaMR]

Moms, I am really having a hard day. We are ending our first year of homeschool. I have loved our year, although it has been a turbulent one. We had a layoff, another job change, and some circumstances that required us to move 4 times our first year.

The little ones (5 and 7 yrs old) are fine. My 9 year old, however, has been in various school settings since he was three - public, Christian & charter. He misses being in a big class with lots of kids his own age. He misses his friends. I think he misses the structure of a classroom. He misses institutional school and although I try to have thick skin -- in hurts my feelings that my baby would rather be away from me all day! He is a sensitive little dude and knows this about me. So, he usually doesn't come right out and say "I hate homeschool, send me back". But every chance he gets, he'll bring up "regular school" and how it would benefit either him or me, or comments that a situation would not have happened if I would let him go to regular school. Or I'll say something about a part time job and he'll ask if they'll go back to school - in a VERY hopeful voice. He asks about high school all the time, and I just say we'll decide what is best when the time comes. His cousins, whom he is very close to, go to a charter school and I feel like they are working against me. It seems after they hang out (which is often) he has a new enthusiasm of being sent off to school again.

Big - giant - sigh. Does anyone have kids that don't want to be home? Any advice? Thanks letting me get it off my chest

{hugs}

While I have no first hand experience with this, one of my friends has...

Her son was ALWAYS homeschooled. But, he is a very outgoing, friendly, leader-type boy. He has been begging to go to "regular school" for a long, long, long time because all the neighbor kids go to regular school. They found a homeschool-school here that he will attend for high school (it is only for high school kids). It meets 2 days a week, and then they have to do a lot of homework. But, it is missions oriented, very academic, etc, specifically for homeschool high school.

They have also been involved in tons of "outside" stuff to help him with his outgoing side. They've done martial arts, 4-H, and other things where he has leadership opportunities.

So, my suggestion is, hold the course. Talk to your dh about it. Does he agree with the homeschool decision? Then dad needs to put his foot down and tell him to stop. (That's what my friends husband did. Basically, he was NOT allowed to discuss it with mom - only dad, because dad is the final arbiter.) Tell him that dad and mom will re-evaluate every year and look at what options are there, but you are the ones deciding. What outside activities can you add where he can get that social interaction? AWANA Bible Club, 4-H, Sports, Dance, volunteering, etc.

Again, {hugs}.

-Trish

[mamakathy]

Thanks for the hugs and encouragement

They have also been involved in tons of "outside" stuff to help him with his outgoing side. They've done martial arts, 4-H, and other things where he has leadership opportunities.

So, my suggestion is, hold the course. Talk to your dh about it. Does he agree with the homeschool decision?

Yes, hubby is super supportive. I do need to involve my hubs more. Excellent advice, thank you for that.
We are involved in martial arts and once we finally got settled from the last move, we joined bible study home group where he has recently made a good friend. We are signed up for a homeschool enrichment program in the fall where he'll attend with other 4th grader homeschoolers and get to do art, computers, PE etc. I have considered either AWANA or scouts also for the fall but am trying not to over-commit our evenings so still undecided on that. Thanks again. {hugs}
Kathy

[momonthemove]

My oldest was in public school through K-almost all of 4th grade. We began homeschooling when we moved. The move had its own challenges. But, we are very involved in our homeschool co=op for elementary kids. We are involved in church. My boys play soccer.

In regards to being asked about returning to school, we nipped that in the bud from the beginning. Our sons questions were about "high school". We told him we are being led by God and will continue to follow His lead. We told him that his educational path was our choice, not his. We said while we would listen to his thoughts, it was our decision in the end that he would abide by.

We don't have those discussions anymore. He may occasionally mention school, but not in a longing way to go back. He has realized the freedoms he has homeschooling. (And, we are quick to point those out often.)

For us it worked being very hard lined and direct up front about it. And, he didn't always like it, but he knew we were the authority, not him.

good luck.
Deb

[Julie in MN]

My heart goes out to you. I have had a very similar situation over the years, and I know your pain as his mother.

Every so often, this topic comes up and I usually chime in because of my situation. Here is a post where I said pretty much what Deb said - we have the duty to be the parents here: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 909#p54169

Here's where I shared about my son saying he "missed" the school bus -- showing that what a child thinks he remembers (or what he thinks it would be like, in your case) is not always even close to reality: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 828#p75828

My only comfort for you is that the whole thing peaked in 7-8th grade and is far less of a strain in 10th grade, at least at my house. It's still there, but these days my son is more interested in taking PSEO classes at a college now, than he is in pressing to go to a public high school, since many of his friends are in 11th grade this year and starting to really head in different directions. It was the same with my Girl Scout troop in the past - middle school years were the height of wanting to do whatever "everyone" was doing, and in high school most of the gals started coming into their own and being their own person.

<hugs> as you parent against the stream,
Julie

[mamakathy]

Deb, thanks. I have explained to Gavin many of the same things so it helps to hear that I am on the right path. Julie, thank you. I will take some time and go through the threads you provided.

I am not doing this to make little homeschool fans, but in obedience. So whether they like it or not we will be obedient to the Lord and make what we know to be the best education choice over what he would prefer (we don't serve cake for dinner either, which I am sure he would also prefer). But I just really want him to love it as much as I do!! I want him to be a fan! I know I can't make him love it. So I guess I am just venting mostly But I will continue with the firm choices and pray he, like your kiddos, will come to appreciate the freedom and benefits of being schooled at home and that time & maturity might help as well. Hugs back at ya! Thank you, your support means so much.

[kerby]

This sounds a lot like my oldest. He was at private school, then 1 yr of ps before coming home in 5th. He was here for 3 yrs, then went to the ps in 8th and 9th. He is back home now in 10th. It's been a loooong yr, and we are still working through things. It's been harder to do this time around. He is very "institutionalized" (for lack of a better word) and I've realized that I'm "re-training" him in regards to the differences.

I agree w/ the pp, stick w/ the direction God is leading and that you and dh WILL obey, even when it's tough or not necessarily what you always "want" to do. (Life is full of those things.) We all want them to love it and realize that it is the better option in several ways - freedom being the biggest. But, also don't forget that he just may not. I have tried over the last 6 yrs to find/use materials so that they will enjoy school - to no avail. Thankfully, this is a bit easier to do w/ the youngers who haven't been in ps.

It has been hard at times, but finding a group to connect w/ and make some friends has been good for all of them. It helps them feel like their part of the group and "normal" somehow. We have only had our group for a little over a yr. So, yes, getting him involved will be part of it. I agree, though, in that you want to be careful not to overdo it, or get him into so much that your life is crazy just keeping him content. There will be a transition time, more for the older ones usually.

You're doing great! {{hugs}}

[deltagal]

My only comfort for you is that the whole thing peaked in 7-8th grade and is far less of a strain in 10th grade, at least at my house. It's still there, but these days my son is more interested in taking PSEO classes at a college now, than he is in pressing to go to a public high school, since many of his friends are in 11th grade this year and starting to really head in different directions.

Just chiming in to say that this has been our experience, as well!

[Julie in MN]

Hello everyone. We are having a great year so far with RTR, but my 6th grade daughter has approached me again about going to school. She says she just wants to know what it is like and see what they do in school. I have been praying about whether or not keeping her home is some sort of idol I'm holding. My other three children (10, 8, 5) have no desire to go to school. I am considering enrolling her in the public school for the rest of the year. I'm not at all worried about her academically or emotionally. This is a very strong-willed child and I'm afraid if I ignore her curiosity that it will be negative for her. But if I do allow her to go I feel like I've somehow failed. Just trying to gain some godly wisdom and insight from anyone who may have been in a similar position with a similar type of child.

Thanks for being a great community of moms here!
Blessings,
Stephanie

Hi Stephanie,
I'll start the conversation and then hopefully you'll be bumped up for more replies.

First, I'll say that I know your pain to some extent. I'm not in an area where homeschooling is common and my kids didn't want to homeschool because that was different than the herd. The resistance was worst around 7th grade, when even their friends tried to "advise me" against homeschooling.

That said, only you know each of your kids. God gave them to you because you were His best choice to guide them. It's great you're reaching out for some opinions, but in the end don't be intimated by others' experiences. You probably know that, but just saying it out loud before I share...

So, I sent one of my daughters back to school for one class and I look back and it wasn't a good idea for her. She wouldn't say that, but I have a different perspective than she does. I remember posting this as an example of how a parent may see the bigger picture -- my youngest looking back wistfully at the schoolbus when in actuality he hated every minute on the bus: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 909#p53895
That thread has some more encouragement that might at least let you know you aren't alone in this decision.
And here's a thread about making the often "final" decision to homeschool high school: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=9769
This thread has some conversations about social kids: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=10018

I am avoiding giving my opinion because deep down, I guess I think homeschooling is the very best way for all of us to educate our children, especially when the Bible is in it, but I also think that we are not ideal people in an ideal world and sometimes we have to do something else. I trust God will be alongside us either way.

<more hugs>
Julie

[TriciaMR]

{hugs}

This has been something on my mind for a while with my own kids. Most families in our church homeschool through middle school, and then put their kids in PS in 9th grade. With Common Core and all the data gathering and mining, I personally am against putting my kids in public school. But, I understand that homeschooling isn't for every parent or every child. However, if one of my kids really wants to go... well, we might let them. I'd be praying like crazy over them all day, though.

Are there other options? Could she shadow a student at a private school for a day? Could she shadow a student at the public school for a day? Is there a homeschool co-op you could go to - it's usually more school-like. (It is something we are doing this year for my dd's biology labs, and my boys are taking an art class. Not the same as going to PS, but more classroom structure than they have at home.)

If you do allow her to go, make sure you opt out of all standardized testing and surveys (the standardized testing is all the common core data gathering, and the surveys are very invasive). You can probably find a nice letter to use for that. Also, make sure you stay connected with her - stay involved and talking to her about what is going on in school. Perhaps help her look for serving opportunities at school, and opportunities for sharing Jesus's love with the other students. Are there other kids from church that go to the same school? That was one thing that was very hard for me in jr high and high school - I was the only one from my church that went to my high school (lots of high schools in my rather large city). It made it tough - and understanding why Jesus sent out disciples in pairs. It would have been nice to have a friend that way and I often felt left out at church because I didn't know what everyone else had been doing in school all week.