Okay, I don't want to monopolize the thread, so I hope others do chime in!!! But I'm feeling awfully chatty today and avoiding my work cleaning the basement
So here goes more...
dstj wrote:So I also think it is fine to use as one more learning tool - it is good if she has to look back in the book - maybe that will help her learn it better than even if it was oral and I had to just give her the answer.
cbollin wrote: we do similar stuff with an oldest and youngest? no no no.. this is all wrong. giggle snort (laughing at you and me over the years.. giggle) Part of what my oldest does is stop along the way, discuss, yells back at the book or whatever, keeps going. it's processing.
I notice that we seem to do similar things (and as Crystal said, when her oldest dd and my way youngest ds do things the same, that's saying a lot!). We let our kids "digest" the info along the way. And I started to remember back to a big adjustment I had to make in using the SOTW outlining method.
The thing is, the outlining in the SOTW Activity Book is not simply a natural progression from narration to some kind of "organized narration in outline form." That's where I had trouble, I think. I thought it would be the same thing, and I probably *wanted* it to be the same thing. I thought it would be thinking over the whole picture and organizing the main points in your mind. It took me a little while to realize that wasn't what SWB was doing in that particular outlining exercise. I actually can copy-paste something I posted back when I was in your shoes:
What I "thought'" a SOTW narration/outline would look like:
1. Intro about wars between rich & poor (first 2 paragraphs)
2. Quing dynasty info (next 2 paragraphs)
3. Changes in the country of China causing a very poor class (next 3 paragraphs)
4. The emergence of Hong & his beliefs (next 4 paragraphs)
5. The early actions of the God Worshippers (next 3)
6. The politics of the Taipings (next 3)
7. Conquering Nanjing & Shanghai (next 5)
and so on
What the Activity Guide outline for the same chapter starts with:
1. China faced 3 problems (found in paragraphs 5-7)
2. The Taiping army did 3 things as it marched north (found in paragraph 18)
and so on
Okay, so the first thing for me was to realize that the SOTW outlining was "not" the kind of overview that we were used to with narration & notebooking. Instead it was (1) yes, learning to outline & organize info, but (2) maybe learning to do a different type of thing with a text, which is finding the details
One time when this really clicked in my brain was when I tutored a young man in order to prep for the ACT test. In the reading section of the ACT, students read a dense piece of text (4 different types of writing, so one of them is likely to be a stickler for your child). Then they have questions about the text, but the questions are not all the same.
A lot of the ACT questions will expect your student to know the "big picture" - what is the author trying to say? What is her main point and major reasons or examples? Can you infer from that what the author would say about this other thing that isn't in there? Those are the kinds of questions I like! These are things we've been doing all along with narration and notebooking.
But then the ACT has "detail" questions. And the thing I really tried to get across to my young tutoring student was NOT to try to memorize all those details as he read. When he did that, and I asked what he had read, he was throwing out all these random details that he was trying to keep in his brain, with no organization to them. So, I made him *first* understand what each paragraph was "about" - use only one or two words. That way, he could answer those "big picture" questions, but *also* he knew right where to go back and look to answer the detail questions.
Therefore, if our students *do* get the big picture in the SOTW chapters, then they should be able to know where to go back and locate the details for those outlines... maybe?
Not sure every kid would benefit from that method, but it made me think about "overview work" as separate from "detail work" -- maybe there is a benefit to learning to look at the overview, and then spending some time learning to look for details in a text? Sadly, my tendency is to love teaching the overview and hate worrying about the details
Somewhere in 2nd semester, we switched back to notebooking instead of some of the outlining. But I have had to admit that what we did probably is helping my ds with high school