Grammar - Help with specific questions

Copywork, Cursive, Dictation, Grammar, Handwriting, Letter Writing, Memory Work, Narration, Read-Alouds, Spelling, Vocabulary, & Writing (many of these topics apply to other subjects such as Bible, History, and Science)
Post Reply
cbollin

Grammar - Help with specific questions

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:01 pm

How to explain grammar rules?
Happy2BMotherof3 wrote:I was flipping through the book looking ahead. I noticed for some of the lessons like the is/are....to/two/too lessons it doesn't explain how they are used. It's like you have to already know which one to use.....Why is that?
Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 5:59 pm
*For is/are -- I think most teachers would know which word to use and most students will know from several years of proper speaking.

You are not expected to form complicated rules about subject verb agreement nor be able to recite the rules. Most of our children usually would say those sentences properly. We wouldn’t say Two squirrels is in the tree. But you aren’t expected to have them recite or memorize rules about it at this stage.

It is a more inductive style of teaching at this point due to the age/stage of the child. But if they really like to know --- you use "is" when it is just one, and "are" if it is more than one in the sentences in that lesson. That will be enough for that early part of 2nd grade.

*To.Too.Two -- I think it assumes the teacher would let the student look back at lesson 15 for examples to model. But again, you wouldn’t have to recite rules about it.

Example: lesson 16, if you look at #1, the student will know that's a number to fill in. And Lesson 15 #5 has a quick example to look up if needed to get the correct spelling. Problem 16, Q 2 -- look at lesson 15, Q2 for example.

I have noted Lesson 15 and 16: If you need a review of these lessons, you can check a dictionary for the definition and then simplify for your student.

* to: used for indicating directions, or positions (and some other uses right before an action word)
* too: it means also, as well, or is used to indicate excessive quantity like "too much"
* two: this is the number

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:19 pm
Later in the book (as you progress into the 3rd grade year when they are just a little older) you will get more in the lessons to help you and your child "think" through some of those kinds of lessons. Take a look at lesson 92 --- go, went, gone. You make observations about the sentences, and they give you the questions to ask for those observation (what word is used in sentence #3 before gone) and then you apply that to the sentences on the next page. Or lesson 107 is also a good example of thinking about the observations before applying the rule.

I could zip through the 2nd grade section, but I remembered those 3rd grade one quickly enough to type :) (edit to add: for some 2nd grade section examples: lesson 19, 45)

So -- it starts off with stuff they more likely know (is/are) and just let them start to write it in sentences without full rules, then later in the book you guide them through the thinking about the "rules" a bit but you still don't have to deal with fancy grammar vocabulary such as the various forms of past tense that I don't remember either :)

-crystal

Lainie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:33 am
Location: Tualatin, OR
Contact:

Re: How to explain grammar rules?

Unread post by Lainie » Mon Jan 05, 2009 10:02 pm

Posted: Fri Aug 01, 2008 6:07 pm
If I can't remember a rule I will sometimes go here for help
http://englishplus.com/grammar/gsdeluxe.htm

Also, the brilliant ladies on this board are VERY helpful when my brain locks up.

cbollin

Punctuation before quotation marks?

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Apr 19, 2011 1:24 pm

mamacastle2 wrote:I was always taught in school that punctuation marks come before quotation marks... always. In CTG week 30, the copy work is from Isaiah 40:27 and the end is written "... disregarded by my God"? Is that right? I re-wrote it and put it "... disregarded by my God?" but I wasn't sure.
The question mark belongs on the outside because the parts in quotes are not a question but the overall sentence is a question.
Why do you say, Israel,“My way is hidden from the LORD; my cause is disregarded by my God”?

It would be different it the quote were
Israel said "Is my way hidden from the Lord; is my cause disregarded by my God?"

make sense?

I found this. check rule #2
http://www.grammarbook.com/punctuation/quotes.asp

what says the grammar gals over here :)

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Punctuation before quotation marks?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:18 pm

cbollin wrote:The question mark belongs on the outside because the parts in quotes are not a question but the overall sentence is a question.
I agree. And I like Crystal's examples.
Why do you say, Israel,“My way is hidden from the LORD; my cause is disregarded by my God”?
This would be like saying... Why do you say that?
The "main" or "overall" sentence is asking a question.
However, the "sentence inside the sentence" is NOT a question... My way is hidden.
Israel said, "Is my way hidden from the Lord; is my cause disregarded by my God?"
This would be like saying... Israel said something. Or, Israel asked a question.
The "main" or "overall" sentence isn't a question.
However, the "sentence inside the sentence" IS a question... Is my way hidden?

~~~~~~~~~
I guess you could say that
- when both of them are punctuated the same, then you drop the second one (keeping the one inside the quotes),
- and when both of them are punctuated differently, then you keep the question mark (wherever it belongs) and drop the period.
I've never thought of it that way, but it seems to be the pattern I see.
~~~~~~~~~
Just trying to help, but maybe muddying the waters even more?
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

mamacastle2
Posts: 54
Joined: Sat Feb 20, 2010 9:26 am

Re: Punctuation before quotation marks?

Unread post by mamacastle2 » Tue Apr 19, 2011 3:43 pm

Thanks. I honestly never knew that rule before. And who knew there was a grammarbook online? The things you learn. :-)
Jeanne
Wife to Brody
Mother to DD 10, DS 7, DD 5, DS 3, DD 1
MFW User Since 2007: MFW 1st, Adv., ECC, CTG
2011-2012 - RTR & MFWK

TriciaMR
Posts: 1001
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:43 am

Grammar - using commas in a list....

Unread post by TriciaMR » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:34 pm

asheslawson wrote:I have begun seeing lists using a comma before the 'and'; for example:
'We took a hula hoop, a ball, a bat, and a glove to the park.'

However, I really thought I learned it like this in school:
'We took a hula hoop, a ball, a bat and a glove to the park.'

I think I remember reading you can do it either way - but now I can't remember - maybe in ILL????? Maybe in Writing Strands????

My thought is that it should NOT be there - because I do not think it should be written like this:
'We took a bat, and a glove to the park.' I think it should be: 'We took a bat and a glove to the park.'

Maybe this is minor - but it really drives me bananas not knowing for sure - especially since I do not think a comma belongs before the 'and', however I keep seeing it in published writing (but not always)!!!! Any thoughts?
Isn't that confusing? If there are only 2 things in the list, you just use and "bat and glove". If there are 3 or more things, it is "ball, bat, and glove." There is a reason, and I'm trying to think of the funny example. It's called the "Oxford Comma." But, in some cases, if you don't have the comma before the and it gets confusing.

Here's an example from Wikipedia (which gives a pretty good explanation):
To my parents, John and God.
Now, does that mean "John and God" are my parents?

So, to get rid of the ambiguity,
To my parents, John, and God.

Either way is fine, just use the extra ", and" if there is ambiguity.'

Here's another example:
I had hash browns, eggs with cheese and ham for breakfast.
vs.
I had hash browns, eggs with cheese, and ham for breakfast.
See how it changed the meaning? In the first one, it seems like it was eggs with cheese and ham mixed together. The second one clearly indicates that the ham was separate from the eggs and cheese.

The wikipedia article goes on to give different ways to clear up the ambiguity issues - sometimes it is just a matter of changing the order of the items.

I've seen this in both PLL and ILL.

I personally like the "Oxford comma" or "Serial comma" myself :)

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
2015-2016 - WHL, RTR
2016-2017 - EXP1850, US1877
2017-2018 - DE, 1850MOD
2018-2019 - College, AHL
My blog

asheslawson
Posts: 213
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:37 am
Contact:

Re: Grammar - using commas in a list....

Unread post by asheslawson » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:25 pm

This makes sense!!! Thank you so much! Why do I never find these answers when I am trying to figure it all out? I do appreciate your help ;)
"So then, just as you received Christ Jesus as Lord, continue to live in Him" Colossians 2:6
dd-28, ds-25, ds-24, ds-22, ds-14, dd-10, student 13, granddaughter 3
MFW K, 1st, ECC, CTG, RTR, EX1850, 1850-MOD
http://texashomeschooler.blogspot.com/

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest