8th Grader - When to start high school?

8shininglights
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:48 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: AHL with a 14yr. old 8th Grader

Unread post by 8shininglights » Sat Oct 22, 2011 3:42 pm

I am not sure I can be helpful....but, I did AHL with my daughter who happened to turn 14 in September (for grade 9). I think it depends on each child on whether they are ready for AHL or not at that age. It would also depend on what kind of writing instruction they have had up until that point. Since you have done BJU, you may have already done some preparation for that....or maybe not. At that time for us, we had done quite a bit of A Beka, (we had not discovered MFW at that time), and my daughter had no problems with AHL. I don't really think that anyone could tell you whether your daughter is ready for AHL or not unless they personally know you and your child. We may know what is required in AHL, but you know how much preparation your child has had with writing, reading comprehension, and even her spiritual maturity to take in the depth of the OT.

I don't think there is enough in AHL to spread over two years though. You would either have to add a lot to the three subjects to make it a full credit once you get to grade 9, or you would need to complete it in the first semester, and then add something else during the second semester of grade 9. Meaning.......maybe you do the first half of AHL in grade 8 and keep it slow. Then, when your child starts grade 9 you only have the second half of AHL left. To do right by credits, you would then need to complete the second half of AHL in the first semester of grade 9. Then, you would need to do something else in the second semester of grade 9. Does that make sense? I know it would be easy to supplement and add to the English, but I am not sure how easy it would be to add to the history. Of course, if you know that history well, you could think of other books to add and assignments to complete the hours needed to make a full credit. With the Bible portion, I guess you could add other assignments and books that are on the Old Testatment. I think you could do it, but it would take a lot of effort and research on your part.

I hope I have not confused you! :)

Lisa
Wife to my BEST Friend, Roger, for 22 years!
Blessed Mother of Victoria (20), David (19), Anna (16), Elisabeth (14), Rebecca (12), and Daniel (8)!!!!

Homeschooling6
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:49 pm

Re: AHL with a 14yr. old 8th Grader

Unread post by Homeschooling6 » Sat Oct 22, 2011 4:21 pm

Okay, after rereading some of the post I see I'll have to find something for the second half of 9th grade ;) I guess I can use part of BJ to make up the second half ?? I know I seem to make things so difficult. I just don't want to start AHL during her 9th grade year only to find out it won't work (with this textbookish mama :~ ). But I really, really, like MFW high school.

I understand that all children are different maturity wise. I'm glad I asked though because I would have thought we could add some of her 8th grade to the 9th. I have heard others doing that on another forum, so thought it was something we could do. I guess I should start looking into that stuff.

Maybe I should have asked how I can prepare my dd for AHL if she isn't currently using MFW? Next year she will use BJ 7 Distance Learning.

I appreciate all you chiming in. MFW AHL looks to be a heavy course and I want dd to be prepared just in case she gets the chance to use it.

Blessings,
Linda<><
Linda Mom to
Joshua 5/98, Annette 9/99, Caleb 9/00, Brent 10/01, Ethan 1/03, Lance 8/04
Currently using texbooks.


Our Blog http://training6hearts4him.blogspot.com

cbollin

Re: AHL with a 14yr. old 8th Grader

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Oct 22, 2011 5:12 pm

Homeschooling6 wrote:Okay, after rereading some of the post I see I'll have to find something for the second half of 9th grade ;) I guess I can use part of BJ to make up the second half ??
Linda<><
how about BJU Geography for a semester?
You can do build a semester of English with grammar, writing, literature.
Bible: can be read, and do service projects, and read some books.


You might want to check if there are any specifics in your location about doing high school courses in 8th grade. I know the umbrella school where I live, would not really let English 1 (aka 9th grade English) be done in 8th grade. But it will all vary, right?

what to do for a child who isn't in mfw in jr. high, but starting mfw for high school..... hmm... You might want to call MFW's office next week and get the opinions/experiences of one of their senior consultants, Bret Welshymer. His son didn't start homeschooling until middle of 10th grade. I'm sure Bret would have some insights on the whole thing to help out.

-crystal

cbollin

Need Advice Re: AHL

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:20 pm

Mallorie wrote:I am in my 2nd year homeschooling, first with MFW, and am doing ECC with a 2nd, 5th and 8th grader. It's going fine, except for with my 8th grader. Here's where we're at:

He is really bored with ECC. The school he was at before we hs'ed did a really good job of teaching him geography, he's smart, always been an avid reader, loves science and just is not learning many new things in ECC. He knows where almost all of the countries of the world are. Every morning, it's "what do I need to do, Mom?". He finishes, "what's next, Mom?" He wants his stack of work to do so he can go and do it on his own and get it done. He is motivated, and does well independently.

I am re-evaluating Math. He's done Saxon through Algebra 1/2 and most of CLE Math 7. Long story here, but we have been filling the gaps that school left. He's doing well in Math. He is working through Applications of Grammar. This is his weak spot. He hates this book and hates grammar. He can write fairly well, he actually enjoys writing. He just hates analyzing grammar. Would I need to stay with Applications of Grammar? Would not completing that be a hindrance to him? I have to say, I don't think he's understanding much of it, anyway.

I am thinking of ordering AHL and allowing him to start it in January. This is where I could use the advice- deciding if this is a good idea. I wanted to wait, but I am losing him right now, he's so bored in ECC. He wants to study the Greeks and Romans. I would love to hear thoughts/advice about switching him. If it matters, he will be 14 years old in a couple of weeks. Also, he's sailing through Apologia Physical Science. I would keep him on track there.

I would like to nudge/encourage you to call MFW office and ask to speak with one of their high school specialist such as Bret who posts over here from time to time.

Without knowing a lot of things about the child in particular, I have a hard time encouraging you to start MFW high school a semester early. The academic part of it isn't the issue. There's a heart change aspect of it that I deep down think in most cases is just better to wait a bit on starting the program. If your son is closer to age 15 next semester, well... maybe.......

Applications of Grammar - I'm not a huge "grammar grammar grammar" pusher. but yes, I think he needs to do some of it. It will have a lot of help with thinking and logic skills and editing.

Ideas for next semester:
Copy the ECC grid for him.
Have him work ahead as he can. Dont' worry if he is "ahead" of the others.
Make him meet deadlines in the Country Summary Sheets. Is he writing those each week?
and the continent reports -- how is that coming along?
Go ahead and let him get started on the "big" country report - let him research and write on that. I'm sure the other schools did a fine job with geography. That means it should be easier for him to go do some independent research and write a report. My oldest did a 10 page report that year.

So, he'll get ahead in "social studies". ok. That's fine. It's ok if he works ahead of the others in ECC... I don't think that means go ahead into AHL. I think it means -- add service projects and electives! You'll never get these years back without the transcript pressure and all of that.

Go ahead and instead of getting AHL, get him the Logic Book elective set.

Perhaps his daily schedule could be
join us for Bible time
work your social studies for 30 minutes including research
Work on English - do your grammar,
Writing time
Reading Skills -- is he doing several Progeny Press guides this year and writing out all of the answers?
Math
Science
Foreign Language - go ahead and get that started at high school credit level.
Electives: Music? A formal Art instruction at high school level? Logic. Computer Programming? Build a robot?

I think a lot of it can be "get your lessons done" -- now what do you want to study or do or help others? Get him thinking --- can I go to church and help the office staff there? Can I go tutor or be a helper to someone?

If he loves to read -- go get the Stobaugh SAT prep book (the new one that's due out in january) and use the reading list.
If he loves to do art - get something like God and History of ARt and just start it... or ARtistic Pursuits or something on the market.
Music - anything there?

Chores... he can take on more responsibilities

Computer programming....

Current Events?

Take some time with him to ask him to plan and take charge of his day with what he would like to learn and let him have some say in those "electives" and "productive but unstructured afternoons."

just one opinion... I know others will say just do AHL. But I have a friend who started it too young with his youngest.... she was academically ready, but....... well.. in the dad's words "it didn't touch her heart the way it touched her older sisters who were just a little bit older when they did the program."

-crystal

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Need Advice Re: AHL

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:36 pm

Hi Mallorie,
I'll throw out my thoughts and hopefully you'll get more thoughts and somewhere in there find a plan.

- About the grammar, when my son is melting from something, I usually explain what I need him to learn and offer him the option of creating another way to learn that body of knowledge; then I evaluate whether I think it will work. I've allowed my son to type up a daily summary of what he has read, with perhaps examples, rather than doing an assignment, or allowed him to use other materials such as a lecture or online video for each item I want him to learn. Personally, I think a solid exposure is the goal in 8th, rather than complete mastery, of the harder concepts of grammar. Basically, developing a vocabulary so that when you see errors in his high school grammar, you'll have some ways of discussing those errors.

- Agreeing with Crystal that his age is important. But his independence seems to be towards the more mature end. I think starting AHL for 2nd semester might be do-able for him. It would be more work for you, though, in that you'd have to figure out what to do for 2nd semester next year in Bible, history, and literature. If you go this route, I wouldn't make any plans about next year til you've tried a semester this year, and at that point you might decide to stretch out Greece a bit, start WHL and stretch out Rome; or, you might move forward as written and wait to add something else when you get to the end of 12th grade.

Before I would start AHL, I agree with Crystal about calling the office. The Hazells had a couple of kids who moved at a faster speed, with different results I think. I also think you should look carefully at whether it's just the geography that he feels is too easy, or whether he could handle more work in all 3 credits -- Bible, English, and Social Studies.

- Since I'm biased and think there's a LOT to learn in ECC, I wonder if he's willing to consider some more self-driven expansion on the ECC topics. I know my son likes spoon-feeding so he can get done, but really it's a higher level of learning to delve deeper on your own. If he's already doing the country reports, can he do more on those? Make sure he's already doing the Properties of Ecosystems and other ecosystem assignments as part of his 8th grade geography credit; if so, can he explore ecosystems more? My son did ECC in 8th and I put some of the extra materials we looked at on the Ideas board, such as these posts:
Africa http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 594#p62594
India http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 589#p62589
Saudi Arabia http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 309#p61309

Just some more ideas,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Mallorie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: Need Advice Re: AHL

Unread post by Mallorie » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:26 pm

Thanks for the ideas. I will see what I can do to beef up some things, as well as call the office. I figured I would call and talk to them, just stopped here in case there were any glaring reasons not to consider moving ahead.

He does do his country reports, reads Top story and is active in youth group that gives him great exposure to missionaries and social issues. His teacher offered for the students who are interested to lead the studies some nights, so he has been working on writing up curriculum for that.

He was in Scouts, but switched to 4H and has been doing Lego Mindstorms, next semester he heads into Robotics programming that is more advanced as the mindstorms was too easy for him. He has been working with his grandfather in his machine shop and on the forge metalworking, when possible.

As we are in 4H (ds#2 still in Scouts) and active in church, we are good on community service, he does help with chores.

Foreign language is something we will be starting soon, I waiting on that until I got to a point where I felt good about teaching the basics in homeschooling before adding that.

He did Fallacy Detective last year, was "meh" with studying logic, not really his thing, but he did have a really good grasp.

He does love art, can pencil sketch like a dream.

He has an adversity to music that we are working on. LOL

Just wanted to give you a bigger picture of the kind of kid I've got. When he started to read, he skipped chapter books and went for the children's encyclopedias. He's quite mature for his age.

When I get some time to sit down tonite, I will re-read your suggestions and see what I can come up with to make this beefier for him. I did want to hold him off until next fall, so all three would be working on the same time period. I just worry if it's a disadvantage to him, kwim?

cbollin

Re: Need Advice Re: AHL

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:38 pm

He sounds like he has so much fun stuff going on.
I know my oldest does a lot of student leader stuff at church too. At least she doesn't have to write curriculum for it though. ;) but she better start on those cookies for the party tonight if they are going to get done......

It might be "ok" in his case to start it early, but with the Robotics programming next semester, and other activities... maybe he just needs more "permission" to work on those things. Let him read whatever interests him -even if it is Greek and Roman information and all of that. I know my oldest did CTG in 8th and then AHL in 9th.... so if you get some ancient history readings now, it can still work out. She didn't mind being done quickly in Notgrass book... gave more time to do her writing and go read stuff she was interested in and even learn some basics in Alice 2.0 language.

I hear you on you want to wait... and I guess I'm in the leanings that, I don't think it will harm him or hold him back to wait. I do not regret having my oldest wait until she was in fall of 9th grade to start 9th grade even though she did CTG in 8th. She had to "get school done" then she could go do other stuff. She even got into Archery. and now in middle of 10th grade, she still doesn't know what she wants to do after high school, so if she were a semester or year closer to finishing... it wouldn't mean much.

hugs and prayers.

-crystal

Mallorie
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 8:08 pm

Re: Need Advice Re: AHL

Unread post by Mallorie » Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:51 am

So, as of this morning, I am leaning heavily toward waiting for next year. I think I was having another "freak out" moment, wondering if i'm doing enough. The new hs'er anxiety still hits once in a while. ;)

I will be looking for more things for him to dive into, outside of school time, and adding in that foreign language as soon as we can figure out which one we want to go with.

Thanks for all of the help~aka~talking me down. I'm going to try to relax and just enjoy this time. :-)

4Truth
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Need Advice Re: AHL

Unread post by 4Truth » Sun Dec 18, 2011 7:16 pm

Hey Mallorie, just now seeing this post and.... I wanted to chime in with the others and encourage you to wait, as well. I know how tempting it is to start a bored 8th grader with high school work early.

I had one of those, and we did start AHL in early February of that year. I wouldn't say it was a "big" mistake, but it was a mistake. She could've used the extra time focusing more on math and English skills (especially math which is her weakest subject), personal self-discipline, and a few things like that. And *I* could've used the extra time for more prayer before officially having the responsibility of a high schooler under my wing. :~

Don't get me wrong... it's not like anything "bad" happened by her starting early. But the extra time would've been better. ;)

Make the most of this last year before high school while he has the chance to do "extras" without worrying about requirements that can't be put off. :)
Donna, with two MFW graduates and the "baby" in 9th grade! %| Using MFW since 2004.

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

middle schooler using high school curriculum.

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:16 am

oliverw wrote:Our family may be homeschooling for the first time in two years (with God's mighty grace!!) when our oldest dd will be in 9th grade. Our other dd, will then be in 7th grade. Since this is our first year hsing I wanted to use the same core/history curriculum for both or I will probably not survive. I wanted to use a high school level for both children to accommodate my oldest best. I have read posts that younger children do not get the full spiritual benefit from AHL and WHL, and this would certainly be the case for my youngest (she's at grade level, but a "young" 5th grader...which personally I love her naive mind). She is spending a little more time reading as her level is maturing, but she is no where the writer than my oldest daughter was at her age.

So I thought of two things: (1) maybe I could start with the American History high school levels first and then do AHL and WHL when my girls would be in 11/12th grade and 9/10th grade. Would my 7/8th grader be able to handle the high school level american history?
or (2) if I do start the 9th grader in AHL, my 7th grader could do the ECC, I think it's called..the geography class. But then what would I do when she's in 8th grade? I wouldn't want to have her in a different history time frame than the oldest. and the dates between the american history classes for middlers and high school don't match up (one goes to 1850 and the other 1877, or something close).
and actually (3) I would love for both of them to start in the geography curriculum because they have not had any good teaching on this from public or private school. But then my high schooler would not get through the 4 years of history that she needs.
Sorry for the long post. I'm just swimming in too many choices and even more questions.
Rachel
I like idea #2. And maybe you can set aside time on Friday for them both to do some world cultures together, such as cooking projects or read-alouds? That way your 7th grader can hone those pre-high school basic skills like writing and increased reading, while the high schooler can delve into the apologetics and "rhetoric" that come with growing up.

I do like the idea of them doing something as a family. It's possible you could do the AHL Bible as a family instead of ECC's Bible, or do science together such as using Physical Science for both, but sometimes trying to do that will hold your high schooler back and frustrate your middle schooler. Maybe doing service projects as a family is your best bet? Or starting with an ECC prayer focus and a hymn each morning?

After ECC, your youngest can do whatever year you like in the history cycle. She might want to do RTR while oldest is doing World History. There will be a little cross-over at the beginning of the year, so they could have a Roman feast on one Friday or something :)

Just adding to the brainstorming,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: middle schooler using high school curriculum.

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:26 am

oliverw wrote:So I thought of two things: (1) maybe I could start with the American History high school levels first and then do AHL and WHL when my girls would be in 11/12th grade and 9/10th grade. Would my 7/8th grader be able to handle the high school level american history?
Welcome along!

NO! NO ! NO ! and NO! do not put the 7th grader in high school US1. NO! I just got my US1 package yesterday and it is 11th and 12th grade material. no no no. strike that plan!
oliverw wrote:or (2) if I do start the 9th grader in AHL, my 7th grader could do the ECC, I think it's called..the geography class. But then what would I do when she's in 8th grade? I wouldn't want to have her in a different history time frame than the oldest. and the dates between the american history classes for middlers and high school don't match up (one goes to 1850 and the other 1877, or something close).
((hugs)) I'd recommend that you not get too worried about them all being in the same history together. The way MFW sets up the programs - there is an easier way on mom to juggle different learning stages. I know lots of homeschoolers talk about "ooh.. it's so much fun to have them on same history" or other subject.... But what we really mean is that we need to juggle less and that's one subject to do. But it's not the only way to do it. Some programs try to have all kinds of learning levels mixed in, but it doesn't have to work that way.

The high school programs are easy on parent. The guides are written to the student to begin to take more responsibility on their own. Then, we can work more with younger crowd that needs more help. It really frees us up as parents that way. I have a 10th grader in WHL, a 7th grader in EX1850. and an autistic child in a mix of things for her special needs. It really isn't that bad to mix/match history with the mfw manuals because they pre trim it all and it's doable.

I have a crazy idea for you to consider. But before that, please know that in addition to any ideas we have, I'd encourage to call MFW's office and talk with them for planning in your family.

this is my idea...(although I really like what Julie in MN wrote)
If you want to have the family connected in history time frame....
what if you went a little off the standard path and did it this way:
AHL and CTG - invite the 9th grader to have some fun on the Old Testament feasts. Or invite to join on building the model tabernacle. Things will not line up perfectly and that is ok! review and preview are ok.

then in 10th and 8th: WHL and ECC. My oldest is in WHL this year and she and I are finding that she is remembering a lot of things from her ECC year with missions and mapping. This week is one of those odd examples -- in the history book, there was mention of George Muller. His biography is used in ECC.

The website recommendations for using parts of ECC in high school toward part of the Geography Credit are:
additional work:
1. Read one missionary biography per quarter (four total) and write a one-page personal reaction to each book. Suggested biographies are Bruchko, The Narrow Road, Peace Child, and I Dared to Call Him Father (available from My Father’s World in the Exploring Countries and Cultures 7th and 8th Grade Supplement).
2. Take a pre-test for identifying the locations and names of countries, major rivers, etc. Then set a goal with your parent/teacher for memorizing a certain number of them. Work on your goal until achieved. (The Geography Game in Exploring Countries and Cultures may be used.)
3. Read/study general geography books found at your library. Another option: BJU has a year-long course with multiple components. Consider reading through just the textbook, Cultural Geography for Christian Schools.
so, now for the first two years of homeschooling, you have the children thematically connected in history/geography and everyone is more in their needs and such. And you never know..... you could use the opportunity for research paper in WHL to do an extensive research paper on one of the countries in ECC or another country.

The year after that,
you'd have the oldest in US1 as 11th grade
youngest in AHL - don't worry that ancients was done in 7th, it's that different. My oldest did CTG and AHL back to back..
Although they do not look like they will be connected, you might find that they will be connected in Bible themes that year. I can't fully explain it yet. But from looking extensively at the US1 Bible last night, I can see how it could connect. There is the "worldview" connections. The living life on purpose and intent connections. Then, in US1, students are encouraged to develop their own Bible reading plan -- well, both of them could do the reading plan in AHL.

then in oldest's senior year.... US2 and the youngest in 10th.... you'll be a veteran homeschooler by then and it'll just flow.,
oliverw wrote:(3) I would love for both of them to start in the geography curriculum because they have not had any good teaching on this from public or private school. But then my high schooler would not get through the 4 years of history that she needs.
Sorry for the long post. I'm just swimming in too many choices and even more questions.
Rachel
I have crazy ideas on that part of it...... What if you starting homeschooling when oldest is in 8th grade instead of 9th?

MFW does have recommendations on how to use selections of ECC in high school toward building part of a geography credit. It doesn't mean you do ECC as a full program, but select parts of it. So you could set aside some time in the day to do that.


You asked if you do ECC in 7th, what about 8th? Well, you can do any of the 5 year programs.

keep asking but , do not use the high school US1 with 7th grader. You will be a very frustrated homeschooling mom that way. I think the way MFW sets it up you can "survive" that first year in 2 programs even if the history topics do not line up. I'd encourage you to call MFW's office and speak in person with one of their high school consultants. I know at least one of them started homeschooling when his son was mid way through 10th grade and next child was 7th grade. They were in different programs and things really worked out well.

-crystal

oliverw
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 9:41 am

Re: middle schooler using high school curriculum.

Unread post by oliverw » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:15 pm

thank you for the suggestions.
We started looking into homeschool because the school only goes up to 8th grade. We started off in public school and when we left the oldest was in 2nd grade and we said we would never go back.
my oldest child wants a hands-on teacher because that's what she is used to (at least for the first year). But I like having a light friday schedule for a family get-together and sharing what you learned for the week. I didn't know that there was an option for high schoolers to learn a part of the geography class. I will have to look at that.

I would like to eventually combine some of the history. I guess I'm stuck on that mentality right now. you make it sound so simple!
Part of my anxiety problem is not wanting to waste money on a curriculum that doesn't work for our family. I originally was thinking about SL and WP. Catalogs can be so intoxicating that I want it all. So I start having doubts about MFW when other curriculum do accommodate multiple levels. However, I love that MFW has Christ at the core, and not just a glazing. I know I will need to trust that I am being led by God on my decision.

I went back and read course descriptions again and the high school levels seem like they would be too intense for my youngest. I realize she will be older then, but she has more of a simple, laid back approach to school, so she probably won't be mentally or educationally ready. And I am sure that my oldest child will get impatient waiting for slow-poke little sis to finish her assignment so she can move on.

I could combine their science (younger one loves hands-on science learning) and foreign language. Oldest will only have one quarter of spanish in her school in 8th grade, so they certainly could start rosetta stone together. And I love that they could sit and tell each other about their week on Friday. They talk about their school day now, but probably not as much as they will when we hs.

I'm getting excited just typing about it.

Wendy B.
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: High school questions - BTDT moms? dual credits

Unread post by Wendy B. » Wed Apr 17, 2013 9:09 am

my3sons wrote:My oldest will be 13 this summer and starting 7th grade in the fall. Age-wise he could be an 8th grader, we chose to hold him back and start kindy at 6. He is a very smart boy, but lacks motivation in school unless it is something he is interested in.

My question-- I went to a talk last night about how to make a plan homeschool high school. I love MFW and had planned to just go through and use those four years, without deviation. So here is what I learned, her recommendation, and finally, my question. We live in TX where there are no state requirements for high school graduation from home school- it is all determined by the parents. Of course, we will have to be aware of college requirements.

Her recommendation is to take the first dual credit class the summer after 10th grade year, 2-3 classes the fall of the 11th grade and by spring of 11th, all the academics would be dual credit. This sounds great- an inexpensive way for my son to earn college credits while still under our watch so that we can help guide him.

My question is this- Would it be a good idea to skip repeating ECC with his 8th grade year and start him on AHL? Of course math we would not change what level he is on and perhaps science we would do MFW's recommendation of Physical Science rather than moving on to a high school science. Basically, I want him to have MFW bible and history. I want him to be firmly grounded in thinking biblically and love MFW in that regard.

My two concerns with this plan are 1. his maturity level. It might push him a bit into something he is not ready for. 2-- we would not get the final year of MFW completed.

This is long, but if you read it and have thoughts, I am very grateful for them. There is so much to pray and think about!!
If your child plans on attending university in the state of Texas, then you should be aware of the Texas Uniform Admission Policy for 4 year Public Institutions. Of course, if you plan on a private university or a Community College then there could be slightly different expectations. Although there is technically no requirements for graduations from a homeschool in Texas, if you want a 4 year Public University to remain an option, you should understand what it means to have graduated with a recommended or distinguished diploma from a public school.

It sounds to me that you already had a viable plan for highschool that meets your family goals using MFW without deviation. My non-legal opinion is that you can create a transcript using MFW highschool that is equivalent to a recommended or distinguished diploma from a public school in Texas. Please do the research and come to your own conclusions.

Please do not allow an outsiders perceptions of plan for their family derail the plan for yours.
Wendy B.
Graduated ds '08 & dd '09
Homeschooling ds 11 & dd 8 using RtR
completed: MFW 1, ADV, ECC & CtG.

Bret Welshymer

Re: High school questions - BTDT moms?

Unread post by Bret Welshymer » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:07 am

As we talk with MFW families using our high school program, we have come to believe that students who wait until they are 14 to begin Ancient History and Literature for 9th grade will get a lot more out of the program. Developmentally most students are not ready for the critical thinking and analysis expected in the high school program until they are 14 years old.

Dual enrollment is a great way to save time and money. In my personal experience with our two children who graduated using MFW high school, I would not have wanted them to miss any of the Bible, history, and English in the four years of the MFW high school program. The way the Bible, history, and English are integrated helps students understand a Biblical worldview at a more mature level and teaches skills for processing culture day in and day our from the perspective of God's word. My kids did some dual enrollment in other subject areas, but not history or English. I believe my younger children who used MFW high school were better prepared to manage the culture they have experienced at college and in the work place than my older children who did not have the same opportunity.

I hope these perspectives help you in your decisions for your family.

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: High school questions - BTDT moms?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Apr 17, 2013 10:40 am

.
Just joining in on the conversation.
Wendy B. wrote: Please do not allow an outsiders perceptions of plan for their family derail the plan for yours.
I really like that reminder.
Bret Welshymer wrote:Developmentally most students are not ready for the critical thinking and analysis expected in the high school program until they are 14 years old.
This was really true for my son. In 8th, my son was also 14 for most of the year but still more like an elementary kid than a high schooler. His 9th grade year was a big transition (including lots of groans for both of us), but it really was the year that AHL became relevant. He was no longer able to just cast off what other folks said as just wrong, but wanted to know more about how their ideas meshed, such as in the New Answers Book (science topics). He didn't even verbalize this, but it came out while he was studying in AHL, with the comments he made and the essays he wrote. It was just so developmentally appropriate for him, and it wouldn't have had that impact a year before. I think for *most* boys, the transition to the "rhetoric" stage of learning cannot be hurried.

As for dual credits, this year (11th grade) my son has done 2 college classes each semester of 11th grade, and that has been plenty for us. He takes math and an elective outside, and at home he has the 3 credits of US1 and science. It's a full load, since college courses require more work, but the US1 worldview emphasis has been valuable for us, and it's been good to take the time to really make sure he gets it, since he often *thinks* he does and really he needs more guidance (we're doing the parent-led option). The English is also really immersing him in our Founders and early documents with a worldview focus, and forcing him to take a step up in reading and understanding. The history credit of US1 would be a bit easier to sub for a college course, since it's more separated out in US1 than it was in AHL or WHL, although spreading out American History over 2 years with MFW vs. doing it all in one college semester for dual credit might be quite a shock :) , especially if you want to get in the government and economics semesters, too.

Also, I just recently got the 4th year, US2, and notice it has a lot more of a feel of "letting go" and allowing more personal direction, so I'm taking into consideration my son's desire to increase his dual credits in 12th grade. We're working on laying out both our goals, and I think we can mesh them.

I think a plan can emerge as you work with your son each year and see him develop. Your son is on the older side since he will be 14 in all of 8th grade, so you might have more wiggle room to start even a semester early or something, but I'd give strong consideration towards his maturity level, which you mentioned - just to get maximal spiritual benefit out of the few years you have left with him at home.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

my3sons
Posts: 32
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:52 pm

Re: High school questions - BTDT moms?

Unread post by my3sons » Wed Apr 17, 2013 1:22 pm

The speaker I heard last night is an educational consultant and is very knowledgable about homeschooling and what colleges look for. It was a lot of great information, but I will prayerfully consider how that applies to our family. I really appreciate the warnings to slow down as well as the great information. It helps so much to hear the experiences of those who are a bit ahead of us.

We are definitely not rushing into anything and we do have a year to pray, research, and see how our son matures. As great as having 30 college credits at high school graduation would be, ultimately we want him prepared for college and life- spiritually and emotionally. Academics are important, but are a distant third. We do want him to have the experience of going to class and having a teacher other than mom before he leaves our home, but how many classes that will be does not have to be determined now. I am so thankful we have the privilege of praying and guiding him through whatever path he is to take that is right for him.

One question- If we feel led that moving him ahead into AHL his 8th grade year is what is right for him, the only problem I foresee just in the planning of classes is what to do with science. He is gifted in that subject, but he may not be ready for algebra in his 8th grade year. Thoughts on that?

Thanks again.
Mom to all boys, ages 15, 13, 11, 5 and 1


2014-2015 - ECC
Previously completed K - 1850 to Modern Times

Wendy B.
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: High school questions - BTDT moms?

Unread post by Wendy B. » Wed Apr 17, 2013 3:44 pm

Higher level science courses will have a math prerequisite requirement. For example, Chemistry 1 will have a prerequisite of Algebra 1. If he is not ready to move on to Algebra 1 then he will not be ready to advance his science sequence.

HTH
Wendy B.
Graduated ds '08 & dd '09
Homeschooling ds 11 & dd 8 using RtR
completed: MFW 1, ADV, ECC & CtG.

Smoakhouse
Posts: 34
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:47 pm

Re: High school questions - BTDT moms?

Unread post by Smoakhouse » Wed Apr 17, 2013 8:39 pm

I did not use MFW with my oldest (now a Junior at the University of Tennessee) but we did do some dual enrollment. She was very mature and although we considered dual enrollment as a junior, at the recommendation of a educational consultant, we decided that she was not ready for community college until she was a senior. We are very happy with that decision. Our next daughter will also take dual enrollment classes only as a senior.

You have to consider your student along with the location and content of the classes that would be taking.

Good luck with your decision.
Cheri in TN
Mom to girls 23 & 20 and boy 10
Homeschooling for 18 years and counting!!
MFW ECC (2016-17)
MFW Adventures (2013-14)
MFW 1st (2012-13)
MFW K (2011-12)
MFW Health (fall 2011)
Pinterest http://www.pinterest.com/cdsmoak

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

"1850 to Modern Times" or High School?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri May 31, 2013 9:36 pm

HannahE90 wrote:My son is 13, he will turn 14 on June 23rd. So here is my quandary: Samuel has always wanted to complete the cycle through to “1850 to Modern Times”. We are using “Exploration to 1850” this year. I do not know whether to skip “1850 to Modern Times” and go into High School or to allow him another year before High School so that he may complete the cycle, as he desires.

We did not do the Apologia Sciences yet (and I would like to) and he is still doing Math at 6th to 7th grade level. What is your opinion?
Hi Lorri,
So let me see if I'm reading this correctly. Your son was considered an 8thg grader this year and did EX1850? So typically he would start high school next year?

If that's correct, then of course he could go ahead into high school. However, if he really wants to do 1850MOD (which was a great year for my son, by the way), these are the questions I'd ask him:

1. My boys were 15 or almost 15 when starting 9th grade, so it isn't "really late" to wait and start high school after another year. But how does he feel about that? Will he be okay doing 12th grade at age 18, even though he started K at age 5?

2. If he's not okay with extending his schooling into his 18th year, then does he want to squeeze in some of 1850MOD now/over the summer (which some kids do by reading the Encyclopedia of American History etc,), or is he thinking he wants to try to make it work for 9th grade?

Making it work for 9th grade will mean 2 things, (a) extra effort on your and your son's part to make full credits in the 3 MFW high school areas that Marie has all planned out (Bible, History, English), and (b) possibly needing to double up on "social studies" credits in 12th grade so he gets in both semesters of US history plus Economics and Government -- assuming he wouldn't want to skip the entire Old Testament in ancients, if he's a kid who appreciates MFW.

Does that give you some things to start thinking about?
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

HannahE90
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:25 pm

Re: "1850 to Modern Times" or High School?

Unread post by HannahE90 » Fri May 31, 2013 10:32 pm

Julie in MN wrote:Hi Lorri,
So let me see if I'm reading this correctly. Your son was considered an 8thg grader this year and did EX1850? So typically he would start high school next year?
We school year round. We finish one year of MFW then start the next. We take breaks as needed throughout the year. So to answer this... yes, I suppose he would have qualified as an 8th grader.
If that's correct, then of course he could go ahead into high school. However, if he really wants to do 1850MOD (which was a great year for my son, by the way), these are the questions I'd ask him:

1. My boys were 15 or near 15 when starting 9th grade, so it isn't "really late" to wait and start high school after another year. But how does he feel about that? Will he be okay doing 12th grade at age 18?
I just read your post to him. His response was that he really wants to complete 1850MOD, as in a full school year. He said he didn't want to short change it. =)
2. If he's not okay with extending his schooling into his 18th year, then does he want to squeeze in some of 1850MOD now/over the summer (which some kids do by reading the Encyclopedia of American History etc,), or is he thinking he wants to try to make it work for 9th grade?
I asked him these questions. He said that he would rather just "do 8th grade" this coming year. We had not put emphasis on grade level for a while so it has been odd for us preparing for high school. Actually, maybe it is us that is odd. LOL
Making it work for 9th grade will mean 2 things, (a) extra effort on your and your son's part to make full credits in the 3 MFW high school areas that Marie has all planned out (Bible, History, English), and (b) possibly needing to double up on "social studies" credits in 12th grade so he gets in both semesters of US history plus Economics and Government -- assuming he wouldn't want to skip the entire Old Testament in ancients, if he's a kid who appreciates MFW.
Now this was what I was wondering about. I didn't know how it would work to try to use 1850MOD for 9th grade (or if I even wanted to).
Does that give you some things to start thinking about?
Yes! Thank you, Julie! I was afraid I was going to mess my son up! LOL. I still have the Public School influence of the possible stigma associated with "holding back" a child (which it really isn't) but Samuel just knows that learning is a continual process. He is already such a big guy (mistaken for 17 at times) he said it doesn't matter what others think. =)
Lorri

gratitude
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Re: "1850 to Modern Times" or High School?

Unread post by gratitude » Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:21 pm

MelissaB wrote:That sounds like a mature young man.
Very mature.

If it helps any with the 'public school thinking' I started my oldest just after his 6th Birthday. So he will turn 14 on July 8th right before his 8th grade year and 15 right before he starts high school. If we continue this track through high school he will graduate 3 weeks before his 19th Birthday. I have never regretted that decision thus far! :-)

If it helps any, one of my students that I had for years before I quit teaching piano is graduating next week. He will be 19 in August and has matured into a mature thoughtful young man ready for engineering college; I really can not imagine him having graduated last year. It reaffirmed my decision for me.

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: "1850 to Modern Times" or High School?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Jun 01, 2013 3:34 pm

HannahE90 wrote:I still have the Public School influence of the possible stigma associated with "holding back" a child (which it really isn't) but Samuel just knows that learning is a continual process. He is already such a big guy (mistaken for 17 at times) he said it doesn't matter what others think. =)
Wonderful boy you have there!

If it helps any, my youngest has recently done college applications (for dual credit courses), and I don't recall any need to mention when my son actually began kindergarten. I just needed to provide a high school transcript with dates regarding high school.

Not that a longer high school scenario would be impossible (my dd was registered as a high school homeschooler until she was 21), but just that it likely won't even come up in his case.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

4Truth
Posts: 332
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:59 am

Re: "1850 to Modern Times" or High School?

Unread post by 4Truth » Mon Jun 03, 2013 1:09 pm

Hi, HannahE90! You know me from elsewhere. :)

All three of my girls have fall birthdays, and will therefore be 18-1/2 when they graduate. I'm happy with that because it gives them a bit more time to mature emotionally before jumping ship (whatever "jumping ship" looks like at that point). My oldest in particular could've graduated a year sooner if I'd been on the ball just a *bit* more; in fact, right now she only has one more credit to complete next year in order to meet all our state requirements for graduation. (You know we're in the same state here.) She ended up doing nearly four years' worth of work in just over three years because of our year-round schooling (like yours), even though we didn't plan it that way. Now I understand why she felt so overwhelmed at different times! %| She was doing a LOT more work simultaneously each year than she really needed to. She'll have way more than the required 24 credits to graduate.

So what I'm saying is that even if Samuel does 9th grade at age 15, he may still graduate "on time" (according to the "typical" school age system) if he's motivated and you keep schooling year-round. Just beware of overload and make sure he takes the needed breaks.

That said, I don't think it hurts to graduate them a year later than "typical". I've seen way too many 19yo's out in the world that simply do NOT have the maturity and common sense to be out there. Personally, I think that's part of the reason some colleges/college kids have so many problems, kwim? It does sound like Samuel is a very mature young man, but.... you'll be surprised how much he continues to mature over the next 3-4 years, too. ;)

One more thought.... I would especially have him do 1850MOD as an 8th grader next year because he seems to want to, but also, and even more importantly, because he's still doing 6th/7th grade math right now. My oldest was always behind in math (her worst subject since the day she was born, with two parents who couldn't help her much, LOL), so she ended up doing Pre-Algebra as a high schooler. That makes it harder to move into any of the higher maths, and it also makes some areas of science harder. Now this isn't a big deal if he isn't going to need a lot of higher math and science for his long term goals, but it's definitely something you should consider. I would try to make sure he at LEAST gets through 8th grade math by the end of 8th grade. Pre-Algebra would be even better, but I suppose it depends partly on what you're using for math and their scope & sequence, as for some publishers, 8th grade math *IS* Pre-Algebra.

As for the people who ask what grade he's in next year and may or may not comment on his turning 15 before he starts high school.... I would just (honestly) say that you wanted to take more time for him to pursue some special areas of interest. This is true, since he really DOES want to complete 1850MOD before starting high school! But as a homeschooler, we have a few freedoms and flexibilities that public schools don't have, so this is a perfectly legitimate reason to take an extra year. :)

(P.S. In our area, I know of several homeschooled boys who purposely took an extra year for high school so that they could continue to play on the homeschool basketball team an extra year. See what I mean? :) )
Donna, with two MFW graduates and the "baby" in 9th grade! %| Using MFW since 2004.

HannahE90
Posts: 2
Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:25 pm

Re: "1850 to Modern Times" or High School?

Unread post by HannahE90 » Mon Jun 03, 2013 2:23 pm

Thank you, Donna!! I hoped you would chime in! ;)

This is all very helpful! I am going to have my husband read these, too.
Lorri

Joyhomeschool
Posts: 138
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2009 9:11 am

higschool in 8th

Unread post by Joyhomeschool » Sat Jul 20, 2013 5:32 pm

Joyhomeschool wrote:Oh! And what do u think of an advanced student starting AHL in 8th grade? Or in my sons case he will repeat ECC and his memory is so good, I think he may need something different that year...
The problem with doing AHL before 9th grade is just this topic - apologetics. I think the Hazells even tried it with a very advanced child and felt she didn't receive the spiritual benefits the others did -- you could ask at the office for a more certain answer on that.

8th grade is a great time to put history on the back burner, and allow more time for algebra, science textbook & labs, writing (especially editing), and maybe even an elective or two that you won't have time for in high school. My son did a shop class with dad in 8th, he read some classics I thought he should be familiar with but wouldn't necessarily spend time on in high school, he tried a couple of science things to see what he liked, etc. It also gave him time to mature and allowed new questions to rise to the surface. Here is some more reading on 8th graders: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=10520
Vicki
Homeschooling my 7,
2018/2019 1st, EXP, AHL, US 2

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