Placement - Can the 3 credits be separated out, doing parts?

Julie in MN
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Placement - Can the 3 credits be separated out, doing parts?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu Jan 06, 2011 2:17 pm

High School question - Using only part of a High School year
Mommy23 wrote:I would like to do AHL with my 9th grade ds next year. He has the opportunity to take a Language Arts class with our umbrella school. Would the curriculum be worth it if he is not able to complete all the Literature assignments?
Thank you!
Jenny
Hi Jenny,
Well the first option you'd have is just to count the outside class as an elective and do all of AHL. Of course, I wouldn't call it "English" and "English" but probably you could call one "ancient literature" or "the Bible as literature" or something like that.

But if you just want to sub, it would be worth it to me, in order to have my child read the entire OT alongside of history. The first thing I'd do would be to cross off all the optional "reading" boxes. Then I'd go thru the rest of the "English" boxes and decide what I'd totally skip and what I'd try to do. It wouldn't be that bad -- only 36 pages :) You'll probably want to keep any of the Bible readings from English in there (Job, Psalms, etc). Maybe you won't do the "study" parts, although you'd have the manual to skim over and see if there were some important points to bring up in your weekly meeting.

Well, that's a long way of saying that I think the "English" part of the grid is clearly marked and easy to review in order to decide what you could skip. To me, none of the literature studies are quite as important as reading the entire Bible alongside the history.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: High School question

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Jan 06, 2011 3:10 pm

Yes, the curriculum would be worth it.

feeding off some cool stuff that Julie said, I have some thinking out loud to help you design a bit...

What is being covered in "language arts" at the outside class? If it is general reading, then that can be used in the AHL "extra reading" time.
How much time is expected in the outside class (both attendance, frequency and homework expectations)

I'd leaning in same direction as Julie -- call it an elective.

-crystal

Mommy23
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Re: High School question

Unread post by Mommy23 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 12:05 pm

Thank you! I was so excited to see AHL, but I know my ds needs someone else to help him with Language Arts (I am a math person ;) )

Missy OH
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High School Question - Not History

Unread post by Missy OH » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:12 am

leeandrea wrote:Hello. I'm new here. I will be using K and most likely ECC this upcoming year. I have 6 children, 14, 12, 10, 7, 5 and almost 3. Up until now, we have done history together using TQ.

My 14yo is wanting something much more independent, and I think she needs something with more writing, something stepped-up a notch from what she's been doing. I also think my younger guys need something more geared to them since they have just sort of been tagging along in history/science up until now. This past year for history we covered ancient Egypt and Greece and did an indepth study of Genesis and Exodus. We also did a separate study of the Tabernacle. So, I don't want to start with the first HS year. I really like the look of the literature and Bible portions of the World History Year 2, but don't want to cover all the rest of world history that quickly since we have been going chronologically so far.

What I'm considering doing is getting the World History year, but only doing the Lit and Bible and not purchasing the history books. I'll use what we have been using for history for her, only I'll have to make up an independent reading schedule, and go through the Reformation, and then go with the American History years if we like how this year with HS MFW goes. What I want to know is, would it be doable to just use parts of the the package or is it too integrated?

Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated! :)
Lee
One thing to consider about skipping AHL is if your child can write essays. They are taught this thoroughly in AHL, and I believe they move on to writing research papers in WHL.

cbollin

Re: High School Question

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Jun 03, 2011 11:54 am

Hi, oldest did MFW's CTG in 8th and then AHL in 9th. It gave her more time to work on writing and geometry, and student leadership group. She did not feel like it wasted her time for school.

We were fine with some limited repeat in history and Egypt and Greece. The programs are that much different. It was nice to do the entire Old Testament and to really pull it all together at the rhetoric stage with developing worldview. AHL is so much more than beyond the facts and history....

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: High School Question

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:42 pm

Hi Lee,
Oh, boy, you are in a hard place. If I were to imagine being you, yet knowing what I do after having done AHL and having WHL in my hands now, what would be the pros & cons in my eyes?

AHL lit & Bible:
She'd get the whole Bible, not just the beginning. I do think the beginning is the most important, but I also think reading the whole thing in high school is a major goal at my house. It's a foundation of sorts, for knowing your faith roots. It's also apologetics, in terms of being able to respond when someone says, "Oh, all those old myths are just the same," and instead respond, "No, actually the Old Testament and Greek mythology are quite different..."

She'd get a whole year studying essays, not overwhelmingly but consistently. Organizing thoughts & backing them up with evidence is probably my major goal for my kids in the writing dept.

She'd get some more apologetics, comparing the Bible to science (and to archaeology if she did a bit of the history portion).

But... she'd get lots of Egypt & Greece again. I think it would be easy enough to skim past Genesis & Exodus, but you couldn't really take Greek literature out of the literature part.

WHL lit & Bible:
She'd still be getting the whole Bible -- New Testament this time. Maybe she could go back & do the whole OT later. She'd also read uplifting books like The Hiding Place.

She'd get lots of world lit that seems like it would be where she's at, in terms of interest and understanding. The lit study doesn't seem too heavy-duty for a 9th grader, and has many gems. Some of the books are available on audiobook if needed.

She'd get in lots of writing practice in many formats, going through the Writers Inc lessons plus doing the research project.

But, she'd be racing along a bit faster in the writing area (unless you are fine with tweaking on your own). And she'd be reading a lot, which looks do-able for my upcoming 10th grader but would have been a shock to him as he started 9th.


I guess I don't think separating out the history credit would be hard. If you look at the sample, you can see how the assignments are set apart. (page 15: http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... sample.pdf ) The history and Bible are the most closely related, but I think it's pretty easy to parse out. You would miss some of the interconnectedness of things. Maybe if you have those books on hand, then your child could look at them as they had an interest in a topic being studied. Or maybe you'll find some other interconnections :)

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Julie in MN
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High School Questions - Not History

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Jun 21, 2011 8:59 am

leeandrea wrote:Can anyone tell me if U.S. History is done for 1/2 a year and Government done for 1/2 a year in Year 3, or do they both run 36 weeks.
My understanding is that the two 0.5 credits are blended in year 3, when the topics of government and the development of our own nation go very well together. I think the econ in year 4 is more of a separate credit. I thought someone from the office had confirmed that but I can't find such a thread, so ask to be sure.
leeandrea wrote:I asked this before about the Year 2 program, but now I'm going to ask about Year 1. Would it be possible to separate the Literature and the Bible from the History and just use the Lit/Bible portions. We just covered Creation through Ancient Greece this past year as a family. I've been considering using the Lit/Bible from year 2 and continuing on with our current history plan (which I really like). But there is also a lot from Year 1 that I'd hate to miss...I just don't want to cover the history portion again because this particular DD has done this time period to death.
I remember chatting about that [above]. It's okay to need to chat some more. But I still think that it's possible to separate out the history -- if you are used to doing your own planning. Because it will take a bit of planning. For instance, there will be a few times when you will want to do something in the history part of the grid -- maybe it's a chapter from The New Answers book or I think I recall the book of Esther was a history assignment one day (rather than on the schedule for Bible), things like that. There is a lot of apologetics mixed in the history with AHL. You might decide to skip the Notgrass text (AHL uses most of the first half) and the Usborne encyclopedia (AHL uses almost all of this) and possibly the Pharaohs book (although there's a lot of great apologetics in there), but there are some Biblical and apologetics type things in there that you might keep an eye on for including. 9th grade was a perfect age for my son to start delving into his faith, realizing at a new level that the rest of the world might not be on the same page, and why.

And Crystal made an interesting point, that if you do the mapping from AHL history, you could build on that towards a geography credit. WHL uses the same mapping materials from AHL and does even more mapping, which adds up to a quarter credit in itself.

I'm all for letting someone figure out as much as possible (thanks, Marie!) and taking it from there. Gives you more time with your family.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Bret Welshymer

Re: High School Questions

Unread post by Bret Welshymer » Tue Jun 21, 2011 10:25 am

One of the benefits of using the HS program as written is that all the lesson planning is completed and provides complete credits needed for high school graduation and college entrance requirements. Using the lesson plans as written allows your student to work independently developing independent study skills needed for college.

In Ancient History and Literature we take advantage of the student's developing critical thinking, analytical, and logic skills to study this time period at a more advanced level developing a student's Biblical worldview at a more mature level. The way the program approaches literature, composition, Bible, and history make it different from programs used in the elementary years. My Father's World believes Ancient History and Literature is critical to a Biblical scope and sequence for high school. This program provides high school students with a solid foundation in Bible that includes reading the entire Old Testament. Integrating Old Testament readings with the study of ancient cultures and literature meets the greater goal of educating children with solid Christian beliefs, while achieving strong academic goals. Students will be faced with many thought-provoking life issues including, "Will I live for my pleasure, or will I live for God's glory?" Ancient History and Literature is important for all high school students, even those who have recently studied this time period.

A credit of World History covering the time period of Rome to present is often recommended for graduation from high school and as a college entrance requirement. Year 2, World History and Literature, provides this credit of of World History.

Year 3, US History to 1877, includes one semester of US History and one semester of US government. Each is covered for about 18 weeks. History is studied until government if formed. Then we stop using BJU US History and study government for about 18 weeks. Then we return to BJU US History for the remainder of the year.

Economics in a Box is a one semester course with its own lesson plans separate from the lesson plans for US History 1877 to Present. This program is best completed in 11th or 12th grade. It fits well with MFW's 4 year plan for high school in 12th grade. It is still in a pilot version with a goal of completion by August 15. Please pray for the process of finalizing this program. The feedback from pilot families has been very positive.

If you would like to talk more specifically about your questions, please call our office (573-426-4600).

cbollin

Writing in AHL - Switching out the history essays

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:18 pm

LSH in MS wrote:My son is weak in writing skills. He is doing the English writing assignments in AHL but not the history ones. I am having him do Writing with Skill the weeks he doesn't have an English writing assignment. So far this is working very well. I may have him do some of the history essays later on, but for now this is working.

My concern is his history credit. It now seems that he has extra English (Writing with Skill) and not enough history. He needs WWS though. I am just wondering if I should add in some extra history readings, videos etc. He loves history and does a lot of reading on his own. It's not a question of knowledge, but more of a technical issue of how to allocate those 30 points if he is not doing all of the history essays.
I just grabbed my dd's AHL manual. The Notgrass essays that are part of history grade are only 30 points total. 5 points per essay. Could you just assign it as out loud discussion for those 6 times? then do your grading rubric on
Presentation/speaking skills with you
content of discussion
ready on time

to come up with out of 5 points for those 6 items? or did the grading sheet for history change this year? Last year the Notgrass history "essay" or writing assignment from Notgrass - 6 of them, 5 pts each.
I'd just make it easy and do those as part of weekly conference.

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: Writing in AHL

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Oct 11, 2011 10:04 pm

I also think there is a lot of overlap in the English essays with the history topics. So, if your other English program has your child writing extra English essays, then some of the AHL English essays might count towards history essays.

I'm not sure that made sense the way I wrote it :~

I was thinking if they were longer essays, they could be 10 points instead of 5, too.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: Writing in AHL

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:27 am

LSH in MS wrote:Crystal, that's a great suggestion. Thanks

Julie, that's true. Thanks for your help! Most of the source material is already chosen in WWS but the final 2 assignments have them write on any topic of their choosing. I could have ds choose something from ancient history so those assignments could count for history as well
that works. that's 2 of 6.

You can do a variety of things... make those count for more points like Julie said. You can also reallocate the whole history grading thing and make the timeline worth more, you could have him do some hands on project, or a tri fold poster display. and do that for a few points here and there.

-crystal

cbollin

AHL Literature Question - Omitting Literature?

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:04 pm

ckgreen wrote:I had a question about AHL. Is it possible to omit the Literature Supplement and just use the History and Bible? I only ask because my son and I have been planning to do Literary Lessons from Lord of the Rings next year.
I guess it's your school and all of that.... (in other words, standard disclaimer.. you can design as you wish)

If you omit the Literature and Composition Supplement, do you have something in mind to replace for learning the argumentative essay?
I don't know the content of LLfLoTR. My guess from having done AHL, is that I'd use that during "free reading" time in the English credit and not as a sub for all of the Biblical worldview critical thinking training in the ancients program and the argumentative essay instruction. The Lit Guide is for about 5 argumentative essays and for in depth study of 3 of the novels covered in AHL.

In addition to the assigned readings in the package books, there is amble time for "free reading". So you can read LoTR then. (My daughter is saying yeah yeah yeah....... ) and depending how much you want to study them... it could be fun extra.

I don't know if that helps any. keep asking ?
ckgreen wrote:Thanks Crystal,
I am concerned he may not be ready for the writing in AHL. We've only recently found out he is mildly dyslexic and moderately dysgraphic (which explains years of frustration). That is also my reason for wondering if we could omit the Literature supplement. I really want to put him in AHL but I don't want him to be more frustrated. I taught middle school writing and literature several years ago (before homeschooling) and so plan to keep working with him on composition. I am thinking I need something to highly motivate him with writing.
hmmm..

I'm clueless.

but I was just looking at the table of contents for the Lit. Lesson from LoTR

it would work a lot better in WHL.

don't know if that's helpful or not. but some of the Brit Lit in WHL is referenced in those units.
ckgreen wrote:Thanks Crystal. Lots to think about. Just need to make a decision before the prices go up on the curriculum packages.
praying for your decision.

and hoping someone is out there who has subbed out the English credit completely and how it went for them...

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: AHL Literature Question

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:24 pm

I remember chatting with someone else about using LLOTR for English, so I think it's a frequent thought. My reply isn't based on subbing out the whole English credit for something else, but we did sub some things for the reading my son does in his book club.

There's already room in AHL to add your own outside reading. There is a check-box for that on the grid each day. My ds is in a boys' book club, so he reads those books for the additional reading box. You could do LOTR reading there, and when you come to an actual assigned piece of literature in AHL, you can evaluate whether to set aside time for it or whether to keep going with LOTR (e.g. the Iliad is somewhat optional in AHL so that would be an easy sub, but maybe you decide to read the Odyssey, or maybe it'll even work with a LOTR assignment to readother books?).

Then when you get to an English assignment you could evaluate whether to add the extra AHL assignment because it's an important skill or an important comparison, or whether to skip the AHL assignment. I think it's possible also to just sub all of the LOTR assignments for all of the AHL writing, but I'd personally want to be looking thru the manual for some key essay topics and either fit them into LOTR or fit them into the History/Bible credit (you could do your subbing there, maybe swap the essay on Gilgamesh/Bible for one of the Notgrass essays in the history credit).

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

ckgreen
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Location: North Carolina

Re: AHL Literature Question

Unread post by ckgreen » Thu Feb 02, 2012 2:28 pm

Thanks Julie for the advice. I probably could find a way to mix the two together. The good thing is that I have a friend who is using this curriculum with her boys this year. She is going to let me look through the TM. This will more than likely help me make the final decision.
Cindy
Wife to Paul 12/94
ds 12/97 (8th)
ds 4/04 (2nd)
Homeschooling since 2004
New to MFW

cbollin

MFW 9th gr. question - Omitting English?

Unread post by cbollin » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:09 pm

awannamomof2 wrote:I bought the SICC B from IEW before I thought about MFW for my son. Can I omit the writing in the English portion of MFW for IEW? Or will it not flow well if I do? Thanks!
Michelle
You know... if it were me trying to do this... I might use parts of the SICC B in summer session to build some skills in writing. Then put it away.. do the AHL with the writing in there. then, sell off the IEW. hold great value that way. probably in reality, my kid would kick and scream and it wouldn't get done, but it sounds nice :)

but yeah... if you start to leave out all of the connected writing in AHL and learning the argumentative essay, it starts to lose some feel. On the other hand, I've heard on a rigor classical forum that some of those rigor preference homeschoolers do more writing in AHL.

I wouldn't leave out the writing in AHL. If you think your son needs more writing practice before starting high school... consider starting it now.. doing a few lessons out of the units on basic essays, and maybe a few other things in the sicc. Use some. see how it goes in AHL. add if needed, resell if not needed. I'm guessing you've done SWI with him, right?

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: MFW 9th gr. question

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Mar 26, 2012 10:37 am

I think it's possible to weave it in, if you see a particular need. But I agree that you'll want to look over the writing assignments in AHL and really give some thought to how you would include the argumentative essay, which is so very important in high school, and the important topics where different materials are compared and evaluated.

Maybe it would work better with the less formal history essays, as far as adding some writing instruction there? I don't know, I've used IEW in a couple of settings, but it's such a big program to learn before you really get to the essay level that I might wait and see if it's really necessary?

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Julie in MN
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Is it possible to do MFW AHL and WHL and not do the lite

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:02 pm

Meg wrote:Hi. This is my first post, so I'll introduce myself first. I have 4dc and have been homeschooling for 12 years. My oldest went to public school but I'd like to keep my other kids (now in 8th, 4th, and 2nd) home through high school.

I had been planning on using MFW for high school, but dh sees how overwhelmed I have been lately and wants me to simplify for ds's high school so I'll only have to worry about the two youngest. I'm thinking about going with a 'box curriculum' so ds wouldn't be accountable to me for his high school work, but it isn't a rigorous program, and I'd like to pad it out a bit. It doesn't have any Bible component in it, nor does it have ancient history or world history.

I know that MFW is pretty self-taught for the student for Bible, history and literature, but then I'd still have to fill in all the other subjects. The other program is a correspondence school that would cover a basic education in all areas - English, math, history, science, and electives - and provide a transcript, which dh finds very attractive. If I went with MFW, I'd have to teach science and math and figure out other sources for the electives. That's what I was planning on doing and had even made some decisions about which science and math to go with, but dh feels strongly that we should do the box curriculum that will give a transcript. So I'm just trying to figure out how I can still sneak some MFW in with it. I can't use MFW's 11th and 12th grade courses because it would be too repetitive with the US history and government that box curriculum teaches, but I could at least use the AHL and WHL. And it would be pretty much the only thing that I would need to be involved with (along with Bible the other years).

So, would it be possible to do AHL and WHL (separate years, not at once) without doing the literature assignments (because literature is already included in the other program)? I'd probably have him read most of the books, but just not do any of the writing assignments. Would this work?
Hmmm... Sneaking in some MFW :) I'll join in thinking this thru. I guess just looking at the first year, anyways.

I'm thinking the most important thing in AHL will be to do the Bible, itself. You could even try to do it as a family, as we did. Well, we did the history portions, and ds finished the psalms and prophets and such on his own. We used an audio version. The most important thing I think would be the manual. Then you could think through the Bible support books (Journey Thru the Bible, OT Challenge, Daniel study, Tabernacle pamphlet, Purpose Driven). Those are woven in and out of the Bible studies throughout the year. I do think it's hard to retain much if you don't do "something" with what you just read/listened to, so family discussion or writing up a couple sentences or using the support books would all be options to help with that. And the way the manual has it scheduled keeps it chronologic but also makes sense with the history being studied alongside.

Next is history, or history/apologetics as I think of AHL. These are good because they have your student looking at how the Bible compares to science (New Answers Book), archaeology (Pharaohs book), and what's going on at the same time in secular history (Encyclopedia, Nograss set, timeline, mapping). I think you might whittle down the history portion if he's already doing history in his other program. Maybe skip the Notgrass textbook (although you'd need to buy it for WHL anyways, because it's pretty central that year) and maybe the timeline? I'm sure each family will be different on what means the most to them, but I though the Encyclopedia added more facts and Notgrass in AHL was more a reinforcement of Bible and secular facts.

Finally the literature, that's what you want to skip, right? Well, it does interact with the other pieces. If he doesn't need writing instruction and doesn't need a ton of experiences of ancient culture, then I might still try to focus on the apologetics side of things. Personally, I might have him read Gilgamesh or at least look up some info on it, so he can see another ancient flood story. And I'd definitely have him read a couple of stories from the Bulfinch book, because the real myths just really aren't the sweet myths you hear about in D'Aulaire and such, and it's going to be important for him to defend the OT against other ancient texts like this. After reading some of Bulfinch and getting through the OT, your son should clearly be able to say that the Bible is not the same as all other ancient literature. Some exposure to the Iliad/Odyssey/Homerian epics might be good, but maybe not necessarily the whole books unless he likes to read :) Our culture today makes many references to these Greek stories and it's good to understand the references, and understand them even better than those who are talking about them. :)

Just my random thoughts to add to the bunch,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Meg
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Re: Is it possible to do MFW AHL and WHL and not do the lite

Unread post by Meg » Wed Apr 04, 2012 4:59 pm

Thanks so much for your responses. I was trying to resist the urge to write out my entire 4-year plan. I've found in the past that if I make a post too long, it doesn't get responses, so I try to keep things to the point.

I'd actually be having him do MFW's 9th and 10th grade work in 11th and 12th grade when the AS workload is lighter and he'll have already finished Spanish as well. 9th Bible and logic with me. 10th Bible/worldview with me.

I'd like to have him read at least some of the literature books because the AS lit courses are not heavy on reading. He's a good reader and could get through a lot of them. But I wouldn't have him do a lot of writing about the literature selections, and I wouldn't count it as a literature credit on my transcript.

Anyway, thanks for all your thoughts. They've been very helpful. Feel free to share any other ideas now that you can see the complete 4 year plan. :)

cbollin

Re: Is it possible to do MFW AHL and WHL and not do the lite

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:08 pm

your plan looks fine to me. maybe when he is 11th grade, it'll be more clear how much/little to do from mfw..

-crystal

Julie in MN
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writing and ancients - Plus a writing elective?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu May 10, 2012 1:45 am

donutmom wrote:I'm wondering if taking a separate writing course aside from the writing in the Ancient History & Lit. would be too much writing.

We've been thinking and desiring for my son taking a "tutor"-type class. He is interested in becoming a writer as an adult, and we want to foster that. It, meaning MFW, has been such a blessing for us in the past 2 years of craziness that life has brought--so nice to just pick up the TM after time off serving the needs of extended family and step right back into whatever time period we had left off. I didn't have to think. Well, you know what I mean. . . right??!!!

Anyway, I digress. . . .so we are thinking of this class, but I can't get a good feel about how much writing the ancients require. I know they are teaching the argumentative essay, and I know many kids struggle with that at first and require parental help. So would adding other writing (which would be of different forms than the arg. essay) be just too much? He does a great job writing, but I don't want to scare him away from it forever! KWIM! I would use the course as an elective, so it would be expected to be more work above the "normal" English. But again, I don't want to overload.

Maybe there's another other year of high school with less writing that would be better suited for an extra composition class???

Yippee, our convention is this weekend, so I'll get to see the high school curriculum in hand!! But there's not always been someone who has done the high school--thus, I ask my question here!! (Guess I should've asked earlier so there was time to respond. . . . :~ )

Thanks for any guidance you can give.
Dee
Hi Dee,
I'm awake but feeling lazy tonight so I'm going to quote from some similar conversations, in case they help. I'm sure you'll get more fresh answers soon :)

Here's a thread I participated in about how I pick and choose what to sub:
Julie in MN wrote:Finally the literature, that's what you want to skip, right? Well, it does interact with the other pieces. If he doesn't need writing instruction and doesn't need a ton of experiences of ancient culture, then I might still try to focus on the apologetics side of things. Personally, I might have him read Gilgamesh or at least look up some info on it, so he can see another ancient flood story. And I'd definitely have him read a couple of stories from the Bulfinch book, because the real myths just really aren't the sweet myths you hear about in D'Aulaire and such, and it's going to be important for him to defend the OT against other ancient texts like this. After reading some of Bulfinch and getting through the OT, your son should clearly be able to say that the Bible is not the same as all other ancient literature. Some exposure to the Iliad/Odyssey/Homerian epics might be good, but maybe not necessarily the whole books unless he likes to read :) Our culture today makes many references to these Greek stories and it's good to understand the references, and understand them even better than those who are talking about them. :)
And here's something else I posted about subbing some of the English at our house:
Julie in MN wrote:My son is part of a boys' book club. He really, really thrives when he has others to talk to about what he's reading, so we keep on keeping on. Some of the books they read are just fluffy types or easy, anyways, and I don't have to accommodate. Once in a great while, we are blessed and the books wonderfully overlap with what we are reading in MFW (like Julius Caesar this year). But there have been some big books that caused me to make some choices about MFW lit vs. book club lit. For instance, they are reading To Kill A Mockingbird right now, so my son did not read Pride & Prejudice.

What I do is look at the MFW assignment and evaluate whether he's learned the material in his book club (they did a character analysis with Treasure Island earlier this year, and he's getting the reading in with Mockingbird, plus I am okay right now with the whole marriage discussion since he has adult siblings and cousins whose lives we discuss ;) - so I felt okay skippping the Pride & Prej.) Anyways... MFW can be adapted, but I would definitely look over the MFW assignments because some of them I definitely do not want to skip. We got a lot of mileage out of the research paper this year, as well as learning to write a letter to the editor, a speech about the French Revolution, and other assignments.

Hope that helps and isn't more confusing!
I think basically, it's easier to sub out the shorter "history" writing assignments than the "English/apologetics" assignments. But I also think that all things are possible... )
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: writing and ancients

Unread post by cbollin » Thu May 10, 2012 5:39 am

Treat it as an elective, which means it is separate from AHL stuff.

sounds like it is a career based goal elective. how much time will that class require each week and how many assignments?

try for doing both, adjust as you go. but keep in mind that in real high schools (you know.. not homeschool) that students have to write in most classes. When I took an English elective one year, the teacher didn't adjust it just because Mr M. also assigned a paper. ;)

donutmom
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:41 am

Re: writing and ancients

Unread post by donutmom » Tue May 15, 2012 9:49 pm

Thank you, ladies, for your comments.

I was able to look over the Ancients curriculum at the convention this past weekend. There are some great looking assignments that I would not want to cut--can't wait to see what son writes for some of them! And I like that the assignments relate to what they're studying. The writing course would give him some totally different things to write on, which may be a nice contrast. He likes to write (usually %| ), so it's not a chore to him. This is a child who would rather take the time to write narrations than tell them! (you know, opposite of the other son!!!)

Our initial thoughts were to do it as an elective, so looking at how much time it would take each week was a great idea, Crystal. That put things in better perspective. It requires 2-4 hours a week, depending on assignment, so it seems reasonable to add without overdoing. True, too, that we wrote lots of different things in school, for none of the teachers collaborated for our sake! Also, we found out we have the option to do just a semester long writing course, so we may just wait until the second half of the year. That way he could settle into Ancients, and we'd have a better idea of how much is involved.

I'm so thankful for the Lord's confirmation at the convention to continue MFW next year. It was funny. . . as I looked around at curriculum, MFW was my meter stick. I didn't try it. Just things kept coming to mind as I looked at things. My son was with me, and he voted for MFW, too, despite looking at numerous things! :-)

Thanks again for your insights and suggestions. Always appreciate it!
Dee

ilovemy4kids
Posts: 60
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 8:08 pm

anyone use IEW with the high school programs?

Unread post by ilovemy4kids » Wed Oct 31, 2012 9:11 am

Keer wrote:My oldest will be starting AHL soon. He has been using IEW for writing, and it's really been helping a lot. I hate to switch since he's been doing so well with it, but I also don't want things to be totally crazy for him when he starts AHL, since it contains its own writing program. Does anyone use IEW instead of the writing in the high school programs? How do you adjust? I CAN just having him use the writing in AHL, but I'm reluctant to do so since IEW is working so well for him. Suggestions?
We are in the 3rd year, US to 1877, and previously did not use IEW. This year we are using IEW SWI-C and the Elegant Essay. We are still doing the US1 assignments, but with reduced page requirements or word requirements. For us, it was needed, however, ONLY because of our own fault. I did not follow the directions and guide my child very well during the first two years! IF you follow the MFW as you are supposed to, it should work out fine.

That said, we really are enjoying IEW and I wish we had done this years ago!

Blessings
Sandra

Julie in MN
Posts: 2927
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: anyone use IEW with the high school programs?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:42 am

There are some conversations about subbing out a part of high school here. Some of them are about subbing out writing, I think:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 322#p80322

Anyways, I'm one who has tried IEW in the past (older dd, and an accidental class for ds) and have some definite precautions about it. I never suggest it across-the-board, but only for particular needs, and after trying a MFW program as written. My biggest precaution is that while IEW has some convenient checklists for students and parents, it doesn't necessarily guarantee the result is good writing, and I would hate for someone to spend so much time learning the "method" and still not be a good writer. However, since you've already put in the sweat of learning that program, and you see it working for your student, that makes all the difference. And I would think that you would be able to apply it to other writing, because that's the point of it, correct?

Best wishes as you think this thru.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

DS4home
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:32 pm

High school Bible

Unread post by DS4home » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:56 am

GLPerky wrote:Happy Monday,

My 15 yo DS won't be doing the last two years of MFW High School because he has already had American History.

Are any of the Bible books in those two years "stand alones" and not to be missed?

Ger
The Daniel Bible study and the Purpose Driven Life are stand alone books you could do at any time if you weren't going to use AHL.

Experiencing God and reading More than a Carpenter are good choices if you aren't going to use WHL.

I think most everything from the last two years Bible can stand alone. Thinking Like a Christian is a semester long course. Assumptions That Affect our Lives and Growing Up Christian are simply books to read through and can be done whenever. Christian Character is an 8 week Bible study. Doing those four things from the HS year 3 would cover a whole year's worth of study for one credit.

I have only done parts of the last year's Bible with my dd. My Heart Christ's Home is a small little booklet, good read though. The Hour that Changes the World is a book about how to spend an hour praying every day, different things/ways to approach that hour. She is reading Loving God right now and is enjoying it. She plans to be a missionary to Africa so I had her read Kisses from Katie this year also.

All good choices !!

Dawn
Celebrating our 29th Anniversary <3
Amber(HS Grad, Married), Carmen(HS+Col Grad, Married), Nathan(HS Grad, College), & Bethany(10th).

2019: WHL for the 3rd time!
Completed the MFW cycle: Pre K-yr.5, AHL(pilot), WHL, US Hist.1

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