Placement - 12th grader

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HSmommi2mine
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2006 5:59 pm

Placement - Are High School Courses Grade Specific?

Unread post by HSmommi2mine » Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:44 am

LA in Baltimore wrote:Just wanted to double check something...
I am planning on using MFW Ancient History & Lit. for my 12th grader next year. Would the work level be appropriate? I have found that most of the high school material I've used so far has been interchangeable grade-wise (except when a higher level math is needed ie, Chemistry), but just wanted to make sure.
The web site seems to indicate that it can be used for 9th - 12th but I wonder what current users say.
~Christina

Wife to my favorite guy
Mom to 3 great kids

Lucy
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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Unread post by Lucy » Wed Dec 03, 2008 12:39 pm

My daughter used it last year and I think that it could be used for any level of high school. I do not know if that will be true about the other years to follow though. Of course a Sr. would be able to take any year, but I am not sure that it would be recommended for a 9th grader say to take year 2 -4. I think those are the kinds of questions that get hammered out during the pilot year of a program. In the 2nd year they work on a long research paper and from our experience I do not think I would have a 9th grader jump into that their first year.

For your question though I definitely do not think it would be too easy for a 12th grader. Just the literature they read alone is pretty hefty. Anyway just my opinion.

Agreeing with the last poster too that the MFW catalog indicates that they recommended Ancients for all high school grades.
Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

LA in Baltimore
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:01 pm

Unread post by LA in Baltimore » Wed Dec 03, 2008 8:35 pm

I did see the 9-12th grade recommendation in the catalog, but wanted to hear feedback from current users or past field testers.
Thanks for the replies! :)

Lucy
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Unread post by Lucy » Thu Dec 04, 2008 10:02 am

Do you have some specific questions? My daughter did use it last year, as I mentioned above,and I think it is appropriate for all grades 9th -12th.

I think one of the aspects that stretched her the most were the writing assignments. It was not only the writing itself that was challenging, but also how it helped her to grow in her biblical world view. After reading 4 of the literature pieces, an argumentative paper is written comparing/analyzing an aspect of the literature with a biblical world view. The argumentative form is what is general asked for on college entrance exams and is one of the primary of most college papers. So, I would think that would be a great thing for a 12th grader to be learning or perfecting.

The year also included reading the whole Old Testament with a study guide to help with application. This was even a challenge for me! :)

I do not know how many responses you will receive since this is the first year that MFW has sold Ancient History and Literature. It was piloted the year before that. Hopefully some of them will chime in too.

Please ask any specific questions. I would be glad to try and answer them or at least give our experience.
Lucy
Last edited by Lucy on Thu Dec 04, 2008 11:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

LA in Baltimore
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:01 pm

Unread post by LA in Baltimore » Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:38 pm

Lucy,
Thanks for the additional feedback.
I was curious about the writing assignments. He is thinking about a Criminal Justice Degree (Police Science or Law School in the future). Essay writing would be a perfect match for his 12th grade year.
Also, he will be completing Thinking Like A Christian in the second semester this year. Knowing that he will continue to be presented with, and thinking about, a Biblical worldview next year is another great fit.
I had been considering a logic course, so when I saw The Fallacy Detective and The Thinking Toolbox on the website I went ahead and ordered them. He (and I) are enjoying it very much! He only has a few lessons left in Fallacy Detective and then he'll move on to The Thinking Toolbox.
Another question..
He will be studying Economics next year also. He has already done Civics. Knowing personally the history workload in AHL, do you think a 1/2 credit economics course would be feasible? He will not have foreign language or a science course next year, but he will probably take an English or Computer Science course at a local college, if that helps with your feedback.

Looking forward to hearing from you! :)
Only by His grace,
LA in Baltimore
Currently enjoying Rome to the Reformation
Graduated oldest May 2010, Three more to go!

Lucy
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Unread post by Lucy » Fri Dec 05, 2008 8:33 am

Here are my thoughts. The AHL will take about 3 hours a day so without a science or foreign language I think he will have time to do economics.

As far as the college classes, I would be careful about the English class since he will already be taking English and Composition through AHL. He could take a science or foreign language since he will not be taking a course at home this year. The computer class sounds good too. Just my thoughts on that. He may really love English and be able to handle the reading and writing from both AHL and a college class.


Let me know if you have other thoughts or questions. I will be glad to try and answer them.

Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

8shininglights
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Location: Victoria, Australia

Placement - 12th grader

Unread post by 8shininglights » Mon Aug 15, 2011 1:23 am

betancourt6 wrote:Hello families,
We will be new to MFW very soon and are having a bit of trouble finding the right curriculum for our 12th grade son. He has been in public school up until now, and will need about 8 more full credits in order to graduate next May/June. I see on the MFW website that curriculum "packages" can be purchased; however, is there a way to have access to this wonderful curriculum without the entire package? I ask this because my son has random classes to accomplish this school year, and they do not correlate with the packages offered. For example: he did not pass Eng 3 last year, so he must re-do that course as well as Eng 4 which is required senior year. He must also complete government/economics, then a variety of electives to make up the remainder of credits. If anyone can send some suggestions my way, I would be SO GRATEFUL! We had purchased AOP's Lifepacs a week ago, but in looking at them more closely, I am not sure we want to use them after all. I love MFW's biblical focus and would love to incorporate that in my son's schooling. Thanks a bunch!

Blessings,
Jackie Betancourt
Jackie,

Welcome! I know it can be difficult working out high school credits when they don't necessarily "fit" the set packages. The best thing would be to call the office to see if they can help you out more.

One thought I would have..........I used MFW for my son in year 12, and he also needed economics and government. We were new to MFW that year, so I chose to do the first in the high school cycle, Ancient History. Yes, it says it is for year 9, but I think it can work for someone in year 12. You may just expect a bit more in the English area (I mean more depth and polish). I chose to do Ancient History, Old Testament, and the English that is part of that package. I then added economics and government from another curriculum. You are now at 4 credits. You could then add your science or math depending on what is still needed.

You mentioned that you would need 2 years worth of English. I think there are a lot of options that you could use for your second year of English. (1 credit coming from the MFW package) I have done a bit of a mix because my daughter (year 11) enjoys English and wants more coverage in this area. There are options like Jenson's Punctuation, Stobough's Critical Literacy, Wordsmith writing, Grammar options, and even using the ACT/SAT prep towards English. I think if you look at your son and see what areas of English that he is weak in, then you can pool together good books that would fulfill a second credit of English. If you son is struggling with his writing, use a program like Wordsmith. If he is struggling with parts of speech, look at the grammar options. Or, maybe he needs more work in literature and analyzing good literature....then you have Critical Literacy. It is amazing how much Jenson's Punctuation can compliment your grammar study too. Vocabulary is another area that some students are weak in....there are lots of good options with that too.

Those are just some thoughts from me. I would suggest trying to come up with a subject in there that he REALLY enjoys. Make home schooling something that is new...but enjoyable because he is studying something he enjoys and wants to learn about. Yes, there are requirements, and you need to fulfill those, but if you can find an area he enjoys, it will make the whole process more enjoyable!!!

Lisa
Wife to my BEST Friend, Roger, for 22 years!
Blessed Mother of Victoria (20), David (19), Anna (16), Elisabeth (14), Rebecca (12), and Daniel (8)!!!!

cbollin

Re: Help for my 12th grader!!!

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Aug 15, 2011 6:37 am

welcome along! I agree the best route is to call MFW's office and talk with their senior level high school consultant and see what can be done to meet your individual needs. They enjoy personalized service to help. Some things are available as separate items, but they are scheduled in one planner in those years.

Like was said already, you might end up getting creative for some of this for the other English credit. Or might be able to use their English from the 4th year.
Yes, the Economics in a Box is available as a product away from the packages. yes, ".

and here are some other electives to think about.
http://www.mfwbooks.com/products/M50/50/25/0/1

they don't list their fine arts credit -- it's a build your own unit. You might want to ask them on the phone about that.

wow! starting homeschooling in 12th grade and needing 8 more credits toward graduation. Sounds like a big load to take on. So just a few hugs if you have to finish in the summer. I don't know if MFW is what will work best in your situation or not. But congratulations on deciding to homeschool to meet your child's needs.

-crystal

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Help for my 12th grader!!!

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Aug 15, 2011 8:54 am

Hi Jackie and welcome!
I don't know if I have a lot to add to the good thoughts already shared, but I'm gonna join in the conversation :-)

I brought home my middle dd after she failed 9th grade (and had been a good student previously). MFW didn't have high school yet, and I surely wish it had! When I found MFW, I knew Marie Hazell was trying to do everything I had been trying to do on my own.

So anyways, yes, I'd go for one of the MFW years. It will make your life easier, it will be good stuff, and it will teach your son to have control of his responsibilities each day. I like Lisa's idea of doing AHL, because one of my main goals with my dd was to take her through the entire Bible. WHL goes through the New Testament, so that would be good, too. But if your son has a huge load on his shoulders, then maybe AHL would be a tad less literature, not sure because we haven't started WHL yet! Part of it would also depend on whether he's had any American history already, or needs that?

I agree with Crystal that adding Economics now is easy since MFW has it available as a separate elective.

As for doing two English credits, that is a good place to spend extra time in high school. Fitting in a few extra pieces of literature and several extra essays shouldn't be too hard for a 12th grader. I personally would only add grammar if you see a need, and if you do then I might peek at the Easy Grammar review book MFW has in year 3. Or I like Lisa's idea of ACT/SAT prep for the "grammar and mechanics" part of English -- there is some good stuff in various prep books to help get a child to focus on what they are reading and understand how to answer questions, see where their vocab needs to be expanded, and learn to "edit" for errors.

Your standards for this English credit are up to you, but I'll just say that my oldest son's public high school used easy novels like Tuesdays With Morrie, and his grammar always annoyed him because he said they covered things like the 3 ways to spell to/too/two every year. Not the highest standards! Yet he did well in college and even wrote for the college newspaper on occasion. So anyways, I might choose one focus area to feel you "accomplish" something with this credit (e.g. maybe an in-depth study of Homer in AHL or Shakespeare in WHL, maybe a focus on vocabulary, etc.), but I don't think a child needs to sit and do similar grammar practice sentences two times each day :~

Julie
P.S. LA in Baltimore has experience doing AHL with a 12th grader: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 809#p59904
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Senior: switching MFW...prep?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:35 pm

classicalmom wrote:We are making the switch to MFW with all the kids. For this post I want to focus on my senior. He is ready for college already so I am not worried. He does need to finish his US history out so we will be doing 1877 to present since he finished Yr 3 of Tog which is Civil War Reconstruction was the ending of it. I know there will be an overlap between the Tog yr 3 and MFW 12th US history. My concern is what can he work on this summer in prep for MFW 12th grade level? He will be taking the SAT in June (this summer) and possibly start dual college credit this summer in July if he gets accepted to Early college Entrance program for gifted and highly academic students. We will not be using MFW science or math as I outsource math and do science on my own.

He hasn't done an argumentative paper yet so I need to get him up to par on that. He is a bit weak on Persuasive paper as TOG didn't do a good job (IMMHO) on teaching that. So can you recommend a resource for us to peruse this summer with him?

Anything else I need to prepare him for 12th US history MFW before he starts? Thanks!!
Holly
Okay, so you are wondering about prep for the 3 credits in US2? (i.e. not math, science, or electives)

Bible -- has he read the complete Bible, line-by-line, and has he had some worldview studies? I think the focus in 12th grade is preparing kids for their adult faith walk, and those are important foundations. Crystal described her new US2 set here: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 460#p85308

History -- sounds like he has that one covered. He could glance through the first half of the textbook which was done in US1, but it may all be ground he has covered already. Not sure if getting in the 1 semester of government (in US1) is an issue?

English -- I expect the reading level is fine, having used TOG. Writing is *always* a good focus area, in my book :) Some resources that MFW uses are the Literature Supplement in AHL, which teaches the argumentative essay in a portion of the book, and Writers Inc in WHL, which covers almost every kind of writing pretty well, maybe not in quite as much depth as the AHL argumentative essay. I am sure there are other writing resources out there. I am of the opinion that the only two *essential* components of a writing program are (1) the student must write, and (2) someone must be the reader and give the student feedback. But programs do give details like how to transition from paragraph to paragraph, or in other ways to lead your reader through the points that you are making.

Well, there's a start. Hopefully you'll hear from more families after this busy convention weekend is over! Off to put my feet up :)
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

classicalmom
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Senior: switching from TOG to MFW...prep?

Unread post by classicalmom » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:09 am

Julie: Yes just the 3 credits. Electives, Science and math are done either at home or online

He took an intensive Worldview course in Freshman. We dropped out after he finished, not wanting to go with the teacher anymore. (different beliefs -won't get into that here)

I was going to look at stonestreet Worldview for 12th grade at convention. When you get a chance let me know more about the worldview (after you rest up and take care of your family).

In regards to writing: I can have my 12th grade look at the 9th grader writing portion and learn from that? correct?

Gov't: He already had exposure to it with TOG yr 3. However I stopped that after 1/2 way through unit 3. The econ portion is exactly what I planned to use (economics in a box....so excited to see MFW using this).

Thanks!! Holly

cbollin

Re: Senior: switching from TOG to MFW...prep?

Unread post by cbollin » Sun Apr 15, 2012 7:38 am

Holly, I have a few scattered thoughts.
First, please call the MFW office on Monday or Tuesday. They will be heading to the same convention in Cincy as you are going. So please get the office feedback and thoughts before you head out. tell Bret and David that crystal and Julie say hi.

Next set of thoughts has to do with using MFW’s US2 with a senior who is new to MFW. Ok, plan out this senior year in terms of what needs to be finished for transcript. Sounds like US 2 really fits this bill well.

Bible: I think US2 has good stuff. Julie linked to my scattered thoughts on that already. worldview stuff... I think you'll be happy with the Bible in US2. It's tools to use versus "you must think this".

Social Studies: did you get enough credit in Gov't to put on transcript?
econ - covered in US2.... rest of history stuff... you're good there.

English: What to do in summer? Study for that SAT. maybe do some of the AHL composition section. It's the first 70 pages of the lit/comp guide to do a lot of structure of essay, and how to edit and improve via grammar points. the thing will be "topics" to write about. pick a book that you've read recently.... find the spark notes online and look for essay prompts. use those for practicing the structure of essay. one or two in the summer to get the structure should be fine as summer.

If you do US2 from MFW with your 12th grader, and you see the need that argumentative writing was not covered, that will be fairly easy to add into the English time in US2.

The English credit in US2 for first semester consists of
*Optional Research Paper
*Reading about 9 novels related to history topics. There is a short list to pick and choose. The list is about 18-20somethign and student picks close to 9. The manual describes this easier than I’m doing. It’s not an overwhelming list at all. Minimal plan time on that.
*As the student reads, there is a “high school book review” sheet that is written. I hesitate to call it a high school level book report because that sounds so lame, doesn’t it? In the full scope and sequence of MFW English and writing however, students are encouraged by end of 11th grade to take the Composition CLEP test. So, 12th grade, it’s a very different feel in 12th grade with the summary analysis sheets.

2nd semester English is speech credit.

So, if you see the need for adding in a certain style of writing that was not covered in what you used previously, you will add that in first semester. You might try to study the structure of the essay, and then practice some essays with some prompt out there that relates to the history you are studying. Don't over do it. He will have a research paper in there too. So, schedule an essay the summer... do another one in weeks without the research paper...

Where to get that? Well… if you use AHL with the 2nd child… you have the structure and rubric. Then have the student do a search for some prompts.

Assign a few of those in the first semester even if it means not doing 9 of those novel analysis summaries. For example, if you elect to read Great Gatsby, you can use the Spark Notes essay prompts
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/gatsby/study.html

You might consider thinking of an occasional worldview tie in for your essays as well. For example on that link there, in question #2, you might change it to be compare/contrast American Dream of wealth with what does Jesus say about Finances.

In other words, if you haven’t done a personal finance course yet… you could use MFW’s finance course and there you have something tied in a bit. And it all fits, doesn’t it?

If you don’t use AHL, check this for free resource for guidelines on structure of essays
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/resource/685/1/

I know it sounds like a lot of planning. I do think there is some student led planning in the English credit in US2. It doesn't look overwhelming to implement.

whaddya think?
-crystal

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Senior: switching from TOG to MFW...prep?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:32 am

classicalmom wrote:When you get a chance let me know more about the worldview (after you rest up and take care of your family).
No worries, I had a good night's sleep. My husband needed dialysis this morning, so I usually have half-hour breaks between things I need to do, and I'm still revved up from talking with so many moms at convention. I have a tradition of working at the MFW booth every year, and family and friends help make sure things are taken care of at home for my big event every year :)

You know, after meeting Bret for the first time at the MN convention this weekend (he's the high school "consultant" from the office), I think he is an awesome resource on this topic. Not sure what his schedule will be after the convention weekend (he said MFW was at 4 conventions this weekend and will be at 5 next weekend, and I know everything has to be driven back, unpacked, and repacked), but you can probably leave a message for him to call you before next weekend's convention? Bret is so inspirational when he talks about how there is no comparison between the worldview understanding of his older 2 kids who were public schooled plus trained as best they could at home of course (he was even a pastor and probably better than most at it) vs. his younger 2 who were homeschooled with MFW high school. He was really able to observe from an unbiased perspective how the MFW materials reached his children where they were at. I think you would be inspired by talking to him, and he really seems to enjoy a good question :)
classicalmom wrote:In regards to writing: I can have my 12th grade look at the 9th grader writing portion and learn from that? correct?
Crystal's idea on that was great. I would think that as you are teaching some of the AHL lessons or correcting those essays, you will realize what parts your 12th grader would benefit from. And I don't think it would be hard to expect more from a 12th grader on each essay than you did from your 9th grader.
classicalmom wrote:Gov't: He already had exposure to it with TOG yr 3. However I stopped that after 1/2 way through unit 3 and decided I will use SWB recs for Government.
I think one semester of gov. is the norm, so it doesn't sound like much to make up. The coming elections will be a perfect time to add to it. C-SPAN Classroom also has a lot of helpful teacher resources for evaluating campaign ads and debates and such.
cbollin wrote:What to do in summer? Study for that SAT.
I forgot about that part. Yes, I'd agree that might be the primary focus for now. Each student has different needs in that regard. My experience with my youngest son and with a boy I tutored for the ACT is that boys need the most training in how to read a lengthy passage and get the main points quickly (fortunately, tests use good writers with usually one topic per paragraph), so they aren't trying to memorize dozens of details spinning in their heads, and they realize exactly where to go back and find any details. Those test prep books also have lots of good details so the student doesn't have to spend time on testing day understanding the instructions, how much time he has per question, which types of questions are best to skip and come back to, etc.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

classicalmom
Posts: 6
Joined: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:07 pm

Re: Senior: switching from TOG to MFW...prep?

Unread post by classicalmom » Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:36 pm

Thanks guys. You guys rock!! :)

Rainbow Resource from what I am seeing do not have all of the required text for BJU 3rd ed. I just bought the 3rd ed te and student text. Just grabbed them and for a great price too.

The activity pack and test pack RRC has but not the others unless I am not looking at it right....

Holly

cbollin

Re: Senior: switching from TOG to MFW...prep?

Unread post by cbollin » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:25 pm

Julie in MN wrote:I'm still revved up from talking with so many moms at convention.
I'm revved up too! got me some chocolate milk and the dishes are done! wahoo! no.. I did not drink the chocolate syrup straight from the bottle. LOL. who said that?

I'm jealous of Bret in the MFW office. He got to met Julie in MN in real life. I wanna meet Julie...


In US2.. (aka US 1877 to present)

U.S. History
Required materials (sold in U.S. History to 1877 package) but not included in US 1877 to present packages...

1. these things from BJU (and Rainbow or MFW does have extra student stuff... with MFW you have to call on that. ... but they have them in stock..)

BJU United States History Student Text (3rd edition),
Student Activities (one per student),
Student Activities Teacher's Edition,
Tests (one per student),
and Tests Answer Key

and
2.These things from MFW
*U.S. History Timeline Book - mfw publication. no time line pieces... they do it differently.

*Answer Key for U.S. History to 1877 (which matches the BJU 3rd edition) - this specific book is a MFW published answer key not for the tests in BJU, but for the questions in the Text. (one letter and it all gets confusing, doesn't it?) This MFW answer key book is used for 3 "things" in US 1:
1. BJU Text review, section reviews, chapter questions, and "application" questions in the text. first 15 chapters in US 1 and the rest of the book in US2

and 2 and 3. answer key for other resources in US1 that are completed in US1.



so with all of this help from Julie and me, I still encourage you to call MFW office and pick Bret's brain as your oldest is in a unique situation starting MFW in 12th grade. Sometimes with unique situations... he will have more insights that will be caught in real time phone than we will catch over here. He is top high school consultant (after David of course). For this unique starting point, please do call and ask for him. Like Julie said..... it's the crazy busy time of year and this week especially is nutsy.... but ask for David or Bret and let them know... you're going to Cincy convention and have lots of questions before getting there for your starting point. tell me Julie said to call. LOL LOL. they might (giggle) hang up if you name drop me. LOL LOL LOL I'm kidding...

and keep asking... I have more chocolate syrup... :)

-crystal

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