Special needs - Adjusting 9th grade (or not)?

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Special needs - Adjusting 9th grade (or not)?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Apr 12, 2008 12:22 am

Late bloomer
perkins7nac wrote:What is MFW's recommendation for a 9th grade student who does NOT appear quite ready for the workload of the Ancient History program?

I LOVE the insights and spiritual focus of MFW ... and I want her to do this, but frankly, I think to force it at this time would put her in jeopardy of losing her new-found delight in learning.

She has always been a very "late bloomer." DD has struggled with writing (the physical act, not mental composition skills). She is just beginning to comprehend grammar, and to write better compositions -- although this is still work for her at this point. She's not a lazy student. She's a delightful and mature girl, otherwise, and very hardworking.

Advice, please, especially from those who have completed the Ancients program at the high school level.
Karen Perkins, mom to five
I haven't done the AHL yet, so I just have a few thoughts but no answers!

1. Are you considering extending her schooling another year, or are you just looking at making 9th grade part of "junior hi" and making her high school last only 3 years (10th-12th)?

2. Has your dd tried typing, if it's the physical act of writing that is hard? Even special needs kids in our public schools often use a typing machine to lighten that load.

3. What are you considering as an alternative to AHL? What segments of history have you already studied recently, if any? Has she mastered grammar yet?

4. What about the non-AHL classes -- will she still be at a high school level in math & science? If you scale down history and literature, will she be able to keep up with math & science at a high school level? Or vice versa?

5. Have you considered starting high school before you make your final decision? One thought is that MFW typically provides several alternatives and much guidance for different types and levels of learners, so I would expect this to continue in their high school program. In fact, David Hazell has told me that they have different levels of learners in their pilot programs, and they provide hints on how to introduce some of the tougher literature to those who need a boost. A call to the office, of course, might be better than my second-hand info :o)

Just some things to start the ball rolling...
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:12 am

Hi Karen,

Not in the been there, done that crowd, but trying to think out loud with you since I’ll be in that boat with my 2nd child when we get there.

I have a friend who is using MFW high school. He told me that he helps his son whenever his son needs help. Nothing wrong with that. They don’t just wait until the weekly conference time if their child needs help.

Long time ago I worked at a university. If students needed more help, they saw the professor during office hours before or after class. It sure made class time make sense. Even college age students are not all at the same academic level all the time but all in the same physics class together. The motivated ones knew when to ask for help. The professors who cared knew when and how to help (and that department had a lot of really good professors who cared). If a university physics department could do that to help a student, then it must be ok to help a 14 year old.

Anyway... If you think that your daughter is not ready for the grammar/composition aspects, then you might consider working on that over the summer and/or maybe delaying the start time of 9th grade year. MFW recommends that a 9th grader who is “weaker” or “behind” (or late bloomer) in composition skills complete Writing Strands Level 4. MFW recommends that a 9th grader who is “weaker” or “behind” (or late bloomer) in grammar should complete Applications of Grammar. You might want to call the MFW office for how/when that should be done as part of the school day. Depending on a number of factors, it might benefit some children to do those things as “summer school” between 8th and 9th grade with no other class work. I don’t know what MFW recommends about it. And I don’t have the personal experience to really know any of that.

One other option is to look into study helps such as those sold by Heads Up Now dot com

-crystal

Debbie M.
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu May 11, 2006 3:56 pm

Unread post by Debbie M. » Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:34 pm

Tami H wrote:I was just getting ready to post about this! My daughter is simply not ready for the high school course. There are several reasons that I'm not sure she's ready for MFW highschool. Her writing/composition skills are not where they need to be (which is going to take extra effort no matter what we do!), she doesn't have a solid foundation in world geography, and she is just starting to read and digest a variety of theological and spiritual books.

She has always been a very "surface" type of academic but I do think she has matured so much this year. She is beginning to go deeper academically but most importantly spiritually. Honestly, we're torn with what to do. We don't want to push her before she's ready but we don't want to let this opportunity pass by.

We also have a 16ds who will be 11th grade, almost 7yo twins who will be in 1st grade, and an almost 3yo who thinks he is almost 7yo (smile). (We also have 3 grown and married children with 3 grandsons, 1 granddaughter, and another grandson coming in May.)

We do not usually have our 14dd studying the same thing as our 16ds. Our son's passion is history (hers is not!) and she always ended up feeling defeated. She shines when she does her own thing. We thought a year of geography might be a better fit.

I'm wondering about using ECC with the BJU World Geography book as recommended for jr. high. I want to count it as high school so was wondering if anyone had suggestions to make it a high school course. My thoughts are simply to add additional reports, etc. Other things?
Tami

[ Editor's note: 2nd edition ECC no longer recommends the BJU Geography supplement, but the book might still be a resource in certain situations. ]
Tami,
When you mentioned beefing up non-high school materials to make a high school course, I thought I would share some thoughts.

We know a family (refugees) whose oldest is now in 9th grade public school. There are a list of classes that have to be passed to obtain their High School degree. If you have trouble doing the work, the teachers/counselors make every effort to provide extra help before and after class. They even have the 1st hour on Wednesday mornings for the entire high school to go to the class they need the most help in to get more 1 on 1 help.

If however, the student still can not complete the work, the student does not pass the class. They may offer to help them by finding a class that could help them, but it does not count for High School credit.

The 3 items you feel she is weak in are definitely addressed in Year 1 MFW. I just received my Teacher's Manual, so I am not an expert, but it looks like the way these topics are covered is so "user friendly" that the student would be inspired to step up to the plate so to speak.

The notes in the Teacher's Manual on the very 1st day are very inspirational. There are helpful hints listed if you are feeling overwhelmed such as beginning math, science and foreign language in week 2 or 3. Also, starting High School one week earlier than the younger siblings to help focus on the high school student.

In 1850 to Modern, the writing assignments are a very helpful background in getting writing skills organized. First the student writes an outline of the material and then progresses to writing a paper from the outline. I just mention that since we are finishing that year, and it has helped my son immensely.

One option would be to jump in with both feet and take it one day at a time. Sometimes it helps to see what level of work is expected in a very structured, helpful way. Fridays look like they are light, giving time for service projects that would be of interest and/or extra help. I think you could slow down where needed, but I really hate to see her miss such exciting, inspirational, well-organized, to the point material.
Can you tell I'm looking forward to starting Year 1?!

Debbie M.

cbollin

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Apr 14, 2008 1:14 pm

Tami,
What a great crew you have!!! ((hugs)) to the soon to be grandma again.

Debbie gave you a great answer already.

The tiny bit I can add... One of the best pieces of advice I can give is to call the MFW office for high school help. They like to help customers think through a lot of this to make a good decision about the options. They might have to call you back, but they will call.

tagging on a tiny bit to Debbie's post about the writing. MFW recommends Writing Strands level 4 for students in 9th grade who need more composition practice. Maybe you could do that in the summer to work on writing skills. If you call MFW you might want to ask more details about that.


Just a note about the BJU Geography book
MFW recommends that book to be used as a reference resource for 7th or 8th graders to look up countries and areas they are studying, and then to record the information in a country summary sheet. However, it should be noted that MFW’s top recommendation for a resource for completing those summary sheets is actually the World Book Encyclopedia CD ROM. The BJU Geography student textbook is an alternate resource for those wishing to not use a computer, and MFW doesn’t have the child read through it start to finish or using the other materials from that resource. So ECC, even with that book, still isn’t high school credit level the way MFW is using it.

From the brief description you gave, she might be more ready for MFW’s high school program than it might seem. The high school program will have lots of Bible reading and other books for that spiritual growth. ECC does too, but you mentioned that she’s read some of those. It might be her way to shine to use the AHL program.

Again, be encouraged to call the MFW office for help with high school too.

-crystal

perkins7nac
Posts: 4
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2006 11:22 am

9th grade

Unread post by perkins7nac » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:07 pm

I've had more time to consider this over the weekend, and several things stood out for me.

Primarily, because of this very "late-blooming" issue, we re-started her school year all the way back in kindergarten -- and ever since then, our academic year has run from January to December!

In essence, my dd finished 7th grade in December and started 8th in January ... so she is only 3 months into her 8th grade year academically, and clearly (now that I am thinking a little more clearly, that is) it doesn't make sense to expect her to be ready for 9th grade RIGHT NOW ... LOL.

My stress was coming from a sense of urgency that I have to start her "high school" in August / September when public schools would start; rather than in January of 2009, when we ordinarily would start our school year.

Turns out, my Dh was doing that too!

In discussing this with DH and with my dd, DH said I might be selling my dd short to think she isn't ready; then we discussed ways an extra semester might be used (like foreign exchange studies, vocational education etc. Finally, my dd said it's okay with her if we simply continue on with the schedule we've established, graduating her in December rather than the typical May. Also, another thing we discussed is that if she is doing things dual-credit for both high school and college in those last few years, the whole issue may be less important anyway.

So, for the moment, I've decided to reschedule my whole "crisis" regarding this ... we'll see what the summer and fall bring! Thank you very, very much,

Karen Perkins

Tami H
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Apr 02, 2008 4:17 pm

Unread post by Tami H » Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:57 pm

After thinking about this a little more, I think she may be ready for this course. It might be challenging for her at times but I can certainly slow it down if needed. I do want to talk to MFW about it and they will be at our convention next week. Hmm, providential?

I can easily see having 16ds and 14dd together for the Bible portion and have ds doing something else for history. The problem (if you can call it that) will be that he will WANT to be involved in this and his own! This year he did all of his own history AND read all of hers as well....just because he was interested.

I'm feeling much more encouraged by all of this including 1st grade for my twins. In the past, I've done my own thing quite a bit but mostly have used Sonlight. The problem has been that I've had to edit/exit many things and end up re-writing it anyway. Honestly, I don't have the energy to reinvent the wheel anymore.

I purchased a few CDs by Mr. Hazell which have been wonderful! Dh and I have thoroughly enjoyed them and are finally able to put into words what we've felt in our hearts (and tried to do in our home) for years. What a blessing! The ironic thing is that I purchased the CDs to AVOID going to the conference (a time issue) but now I can hardly wait to get there!

Thank you so much for your help. I've been so blessed by this forum; so much information here! You are all wonderful!

Tami

Lucy
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Unread post by Lucy » Tue Apr 15, 2008 6:37 pm

Tami,

My daughter has done the Ancient Lit. and History this year and I too wondered how she would do. It has been challenging for her but doable. She just finished the Iliad which she did not care for(who talks like that and the war goes on forever, are her comments). Anyway, I think that your dd could do it. It is a lot of reading but I think that my daughter has definitely become a faster reader this year.

If possible I would just let your 2 do the same year or do 2 different years all together(that is an expensive option but your dd would use it eventually). The reason I suggest this is that the bible, history and literature are all united together. At least the first year(all we have done and seen) is very connected. I look forward to seeing the next year very soon.

The convention time will help a lot in answering questions that you still have too. Have fun!
Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

mgardenh
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:55 pm

Anyone using High School Level with an Aspie?

Unread post by mgardenh » Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:20 am

tjkluse wrote:I just spoke with Brett at the home office (Wow, you guys are so sweet - very patient. Thanks!) with some questions about my 15 year old son who is using the first high school level this year. I'm really pleased with the material he is covering and how well he is doing...BUT... (you knew there had to be a BUT, right?)....... it is taking him f-o-r-e-v-e-r to get through a day. SO, we were brainstorming to see if we could come up with any ideas to help him out.

Although he has never been diagnosed in an 'official' sense he has ALOT of symptoms of a typical Aspie kid. I really see it in his reading. He takes EVERYTHING so literally. Reading The Epic of Gilgamensh required a line-by-line translation of the poetry to common language before we could even begin to think about discussing it. He had absolutely no understanding of anything figurative.

I'm hoping some of you might have some advice on how to help an aspie or even just a very literal thinker handle literature. Any thoughts would be great.
I have an Aspie but we're not even close to high school. I did think of something I don't know if it would work. Could he watch a movie of the literature or listen to it on tape/cd? My aspie does whey better when it is a video or on the computer. Just a thought. Have you tried setting a timer? You have 15 minutes or whatever time might be appropriate to do this work. Or you could set a timer and say spend 15 minutes doing math, then the next subject and have him get done what he can and then pick up where he left off the last 15 or 30 or whatever time you set. I don't know if any of this will help since I don't have a highschooler but just thinking out loud.
Mike
DH to Laurel
SAHD (mostly) to
Julia - 10 years old, Explorations to 1850
Alexis-7 years old, Explorations to1850 see her story at
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/alexisg
Have used MFW, k, 1st, Adventures, and ECC, CTG, RtR

Julie in MN
Posts: 2928
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Anyone using High School Level with an Aspie?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Feb 21, 2009 1:25 am

Like Mike, I'm just thinking out loud until we hear from any experienced folks. But I have had a high schooler who struggled, and she is very concrete. Also wondering if Brett gave you some ideas?! My ideas are just my own and probably not what MFW would recommend!!!

Science - Has he finished the 8th grade science? It's not that unusual to finish that in 9th grade. Or, it may be okay to skip science this year, since high schoolers typically take 2-3 years of science (although this has been changing somewhat very recently). I would definitely want to fit in science by next year (10th grade), and I might have some thoughts about it at that point, but those can wait.

Foreign Language - You might give it a whirl & see if he has a knack for this. For these types of kids, languages and/or music sometimes go much more quickly than the other subjects (or... not?).

Bible - For me, this was the core of my daughter's education and I chose not to skimp on it. If you can't do everything, then one option is to title this "Old Testament History" or in some way slide it into the "social studies" slot, if need be. One of our local Christian colleges offers dual enrollment for high schoolers, and this is the type of course that they offer for "college level history."

History - Again, during the Bible years (ancients through the first hundred years A.D. or so), could you simplify some of the history happening alongside the Bible, and just give one credit for both? Or, use some alternate reading ideas, such as those you mentioned or mine below?

English - I was thinking that the MFW guides may offer some alternatives here? Audiobooks, as Mike mentioned, and videos too (not lecture videos, but dramatized stories such as learning about Julius Caesar through Shakespeare). Reading aloud and even answering many of the questions orally. Typing instead of writing. Someone recently mentioned reading an easier version of the Iliad? Also, does he take notes or answer questions as he goes along? Sometimes keeping everything straight in his mind could be too much, if he is trying to keep every detail perfectly lined up, so jotting things as he goes along may relieve him of some of that effort?


By the way, it sounds like you're doing a great job. Your example showing him how to work through these thinking processes, as well as the quality content of MFW high school, will surely take your son as far as he possibly can go!
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: Anyone using High School Level with an Aspie?

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Feb 21, 2009 6:32 am

I probably shouldn't say anything either. My autism life is PDD NOS for youngest, a space cadet for middle. Oldest is smart and has aspie tendencies (and don't forget the focus factor). and on top of that, I haven't taught high school. So, keep that in mind...... and read on.

6-7 hours a day, and you're covering History, Bible, English and getting math done. High 5's to your son! When I was in high school, I had 5 or 6 classes a day plus homework. echoing Julie's comment: you're doing a really good job!

Understanding language can be so tough for people on autism spectrum. Part of me is thinking in terms of how it would be handled on an IEP at high school. what goals and skills would the the most important skills to cover, and when do you move ahead to the next book?

I wonder if it is possible to drop selective parts of the English right now and just do history and Bible in order to play some catch up. I know when I was in high school even in AP English, we got behind and didn't finish every book on the list that the teacher thought we'd get to in the year. So, maybe it is ok to drop this book for a while, and use an easier version and try to move forward.

I don't know what Bret told you. He can read what we're saying and then you and Bret and talk together and see if it makes sense.

*to help your son understand his reading, can you get an audio version of the book? Is your schedule permitting that you (or someone else) could read it out loud and help get some visual understanding of what is going on? In other words, is it possible to act any of what is going on, or to otherwise present the readings in a visual format?
(I haven't done the MFW high school program, so I don't know the book. I believe it or not got through high school and college not reading it. imagine that?) But think of it like this: next year, when you do some Shakespeare, try to find a video of the play. Even if it means finding someone to come into your home for an hour to do English with him?

*is it possible to just do the science for summer school? That way you can take advantage of an aspie tendency of super focus. Science is concrete and more literal. Lots of Aspies I know in real life love science stuff. You can get the Apologia science textbooks on audio CD. MFW doesn't sell them, I don't think. But Apologia does. That might help with reading time and to get it done. He might be able to work ahead of schedule in that subject if it is the only thing going on?

*and, agreeing with Julie's idea about number of years and which courses in Science to take. MFW offers a very strong path. You know, it's ok if not all kids can do the strongest path. But try for 3 years of science by end of high school. Maybe summer sessions sound terrible, but he might be able to get through science course quicker if there is nothing else going on that day with abstract language stuff. Does computer science/programming count as "science"? In the state I live, the public kids need to take Biology, Chemistry or Physics, and then another approved science. So, plan in those terms. Would it make sense to do summer school style?

*where I live, colleges want to see 2-3 years of foreign language, so you might want to think in those terms. (the regular high school diploma path calls for 2 years, the honors path says 3-4) Rosetta Stone might be a really good choice for him (that's based only my daughters' experiences with it. But again, they are much younger and on the PDD NOS side of autism instead of Asperger's) Again, it is the timing issue. Think year round in smaller time frames for RS. You might still be able to get the credit in that way. (seriously, call back to the office and have Bret read through what we're saying and get his opinion on it. I don't know all that much about awarding credit.) But your son might be able to do RS year round in smaller spurts of school time (and on weekends for bit a longer). Due to the set up with RS, he might do ok with it. If you start sooner you'll get more in over the 3.5 years of high school that are left. So, it's ok if he hasn't got it started right away given all that he is struggling with. (my opinion of course. I could be wrong.)

I'd look into audio visual helps, or ways to perform the literature in order to help an Aspie. From my years of being around "nerds" "geeks" and those with Asperger's, I've noticed a trend: they understand it when they can act it. (think Sci fi conventions and Medieval re-enactments.) They need the tactile and audio visual stuff. (ok, now I'm singing Weird Al's parody song White and Nerdy. sigh.)

But they get into literature through acting it and being a part of it. So try to find ways to use that strength of audio visual learning that Aspies seem to have to help build up their weakness of not understanding language.

I'm not sure if any of that helps or not. Call back to the office and let Bret read through and filter our ideas and brainstorm some more with him. praying.

-crystal

tjkluse
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Mar 12, 2008 3:29 pm

Re: Anyone using High School Level with an Aspie?

Unread post by tjkluse » Sat Feb 21, 2009 7:48 pm

Thanks everyone,
You had some great ideas. The really neat thing is that last night the man-child (Jake) and I, and later my husband and I, were brainstorming to see if we could come up with some workable adjustments. It's really neat to see that several of your suggestions were also things we thought about. Great minds working alike, eh?

One thing we decided was that waiting until everything was 'on track' before starting science and language was actually making 'school' a day of nothing but the 'hard stuff'. So, we thought taking a break from all of the reading and doing a Rosetta Stone lesson on the computer would be a good change of pace. It was neat to see that idea suggested here, as well.

We also had similar thoughts about science. I also like the summer school approach to science. I may try doing science in blocks of a few weeks of concentrated study at a time along with lightning and stretching out the Bible/History during that time. We have Apologia on CD. Jkae had a really hard time with the speed of the narration. Too slow. But, DH showed him how to copy the files and adjust the speed using some software. Now, he can speed it up and adjust the pitch to his comfort level.

I did ask Bret about switching some of the literature texts for easier versions and he recommended against that because he felt that it could change the caliber of the course work and simplify it beneath a high school level. I understand his concern. BUT, after hearing some of your suggestions what I'm realizing is that I can do a combination of things. I can simplify and combine (Bible/History) and still have a ONE credit course which seems fair and above board and more do-able for him right now. Also, when he was in public school (several years ago) he had an IEP which allowed adaptions but still assessed him the same way his classmates were assessed. In other words, he had the adaptions he needed but he was still covering the same material as his classmates and still required to meet the same objectives. He just used adapted materials when necessary. So, if the public schools can do that, why not me?

I really appreciate the replies. You have been so helpful. I really like mfw and was looking for a way to make it work. Thaks for all of the great ideas.

Tammi

joy2BAMom
Posts: 13
Joined: Sat Jul 26, 2008 3:44 pm

Re: Anyone using High School Level with an Aspie?

Unread post by joy2BAMom » Mon Feb 23, 2009 8:29 am

I really should not be replying to this thread so take this with the grain of salt!!!

I was just thinking as I read, though, about something that had not been mentioned. Could you just stretch his high school years into 5 years instead of 4? Would that discourage him or make him feel like he failed? or would it relieve some pressure. I have a friend with an aspergers child she homeschools and even though he is really smart she chose to hold him back a year in elementary. He was young for his grade level anyway and she knew that at 18 he would not be ready to leave the nest. She is doing a pretty intensive high school program with her children (Cornerstone) and she is going to start him in it a year early and stretch it out.

I am not near the high school level yet so I don't know what that would mean for applying credits or how it would be perceived by colleges. I just always think in terms of how flexible homeschooling is and how we can adjust our programs to fit our child's needs. Just a thought.
Sherrie- wife to Jay for 10 years
Mom to 10 yo boy, 7 yo girl, 3 yo girl, and new baby on the way (due April Fool's Day 2011)

Wendy B.
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 pm

Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by Wendy B. » Fri Jun 29, 2012 3:26 pm

blessedwith4 wrote:I hope no one fainted. :-)

I am tentatively planning on using CtG with my 6th grader who has some learning issues. I will also have a 9th grader and an 11th grader and I have been wondering if I could use CtG with them, too, so we can all do history/Bible together.

My 11th grader is not doing college-prep work. He does not plan to go to a university, but is looking into cc instead. He struggles with academics, which I am finally coming to grips with the fact that that is ok. Not everyone is cut out for rigorous academics. He has other gifts and I know the Lord has a plan for him.

My 9th grader is my high achiever, perfectionist child. She is not a genius or anything, she's just more motivated than her brother and is capable of doing the work, whereas I not only believe my son (the 11th grader) lacks motivation, but he also truly seems to not be able to understand certain concepts. For example, he's never completed an Alg. I course. We've tried different things and he struggles so much. He also has Tourrette's Syndrome and ADD (no H) so that does contribute to some of his struggles.

In my "ideal", they would both do AHL. Oh, it just looks soooo good. But that is *my* ideal. We have been homeschooling for six years and every year I struggle with what I'd like to do versus what will really get done here. I would not want to purchase AHL then have it be way too much for them. The reading alone is a lot. We still need to get up to speed with their composition skills (writing essays and such).

So I thought we could all do CtG. It includes Streams of Civilizations, which is a high school level book so I could have them use that book completely along with our CtG stuff. I also have the New Answers book used in AHL, which I could incorporate into their work. I've also thought about purchasing a few more grade level resources from the AHL package for them to use alongside CtG.

The pros to this are:
1. We could do history and Bible as a family, which my husband and I would prefer.
2. I know nothing would be way over their heads. I think it would be easier for me to beef up rather than try to slow down the pace.
3. It's obviously more inexpensive to just go with CtG, knowing I can beef it up, rather than spending all that money for CtG AND AHL, not knowing if my children will even be able to do the work.

The cons are:
1. I'm not sure what I'd do for next year (for my high school children). I've heard you can't just hop into the 2nd year of MFW high school because it's gets harder and harder each year, skillwise.
2. That little voice in my head that keeps nagging me that I need to give my older kids things that are specifically *official high school stuff* and I am failing if I do otherwise.

Any thoughts for me? I'd really like your honest opinion. I need honesty, I need to figure this out already so I can start adding up how much our new school stuff will cost, I need someone to just make the decision for me already, I need...a smack upside the head. :-) Thanks!
I've graduated 2 kids. One of my older kids struggled more with school than the other. I am currently using CtG for a 10yo.

I would not consider CtG to be appropriate for highschool.

Specifically, one of my older children joined the Navy. I would not be able to explain why/how I used a program identified as 3-8 as a highschool program to the Educational Specialist. It would not be "approved" and he would not have been able to join the Navy under the homeschool waiver.

The point being that a highschool transcript will be looked at by admission officers, etc. It is easier to explain highschool credit for highschool level work when using a product that is identified as highschool level.

HTH
Wendy B.
Graduated ds '08 & dd '09
Homeschooling ds 11 & dd 8 using RtR
completed: MFW 1, ADV, ECC & CtG.

DS4home
Posts: 263
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:32 pm

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by DS4home » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:45 pm

I will 2nd Wendy B's thoughts on this. :)
I have graduated one kid and the next in line is a senior this year.
Your high achiever 9th grader sounds like she is ready and will do well in AHL. You don't want to hold her back from high school level work. It is designed to be done independently by the student with once a week discussion/check in time with parent. AHL also walks them through the process of how to write an essay. If she can put her thoughts on paper and write a paragraph, she can learn the rest in AHL. If the reading gets to be too much you can let them use audio books and they can follow along as someone else reads it. This helps speed reading time up for those slower readers.

So the picture in my head looks like this: You are spending your day teaching CTG to your 6th grader. 9th grader does her work independently, checking in with you weekly (or daily as we did it at our house ;) ). The only question is where does your oldest fit in here? In not knowing your son like you obviously do, I really hesitate to try to answer that for you. But I would think if he wants to go to a community college he will need some high school level work done before getting there. AHL will help him with writing. It is also quite an accomplishment to read all of the Old Testament during the year of AHL. Sometimes the literatue felt like a lot to us, but not all year long. AHL does have some built in breaks inbetween lit. books, letting you read a book of your choosing for a few weeks before tackeling another big one.

Hope this helps you process your options a bit more.

Dawn
Celebrating our 28th Anniversary <3
Amber(HS Grad, Married), Carmen(HS+Col Grad, Married), Nathan(HS Grad, College), & Bethany(9th).

2018: AHL for the 4th time!
Completed the MFW cycle: Pre K-yr.5, AHL(pilot), WHL, US Hist.1

Amy C.
Posts: 203
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2009 9:12 am

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by Amy C. » Fri Jun 29, 2012 5:34 pm

I would suggest that you call the MFW office and talk about your concerns for high school as it relates to your dc with them. They are very helpful and good at answering questions. I agree with Wendy that CTG is not high school level work. I think it would be too much work to beef it up to high school level, but I can't answer your questions about the high school years of MFW since we haven't gotten there yet. I know that the office would be most helpful in answering your questions and helping you with a plan for your specific situation.

Other thoughts...
Your dd sounds motivated. I would want to give her opportunities to grow, learn, and excel as a high schooler. I don't see CTG (written for grades 3-8) able to do that even with beefing.

I don't know your ds's specifics, but as an 11th grader who is looking at cc (assuming this means community college), he would need high school level work even if it is not at his grade level, which CTG is not.

Just some extra thoughts, but please do call the office.

Oh, I see Dawn posted. Good info and advice!

Amy C.

hsmomma
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 5:25 pm

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by hsmomma » Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:37 pm

I wanted to do the same thing for many of the same reasons and I talked to Dave himself and he advised against it. We all understand your thoughts behind it but it probably isnt the best idea. I decided to tailor my older sons education on his specific life goals. Technology, survival skills etc. That is what we have decided to do.

blessedwith4
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by blessedwith4 » Sat Jun 30, 2012 10:03 pm

Thanks for chiming in with your advice, ladies. I appreciate it. :)

After praying about it (for the hundredth time), I was able to make a list of proposed curricula for the new year that is workable for us. It won't be CtG, but I am hoping to go through the entire MFW cycle with my youngest when she's ready for school.

I am curious though..if anyone cares to weigh in. For my two children in high school, I was going to have them use Streams of Civilizations along with the tests while we also did CtG together as a family (well, the Bible and history portion..they are too old for the science). Why would that not be considered high school work, in your opinion, since SOC is a high school text? ??

Thank you for letting me talk this out a bit. Sometimes, it's just helpful for me to get it all out in writing, while getting other perspectives. :)

cbollin

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:59 am

blessedwith4 wrote:I am curious though..if anyone cares to weigh in. For my two children in high school, I was going to have them use Streams of Civilizations along with the tests while we also did CtG together as a family (well, the Bible and history portion..they are too old for the science). Why would that not be considered high school work, in your opinion, since SOC is a high school text
if you use Streams volume 1 for high school world history creation to reformation... you have to use the whole book, not just the half that CTG uses and then is finished in rtr.

also, it's not just read the chapter and do some test, but also do some of the chapter projects in Streams - that will bring it to high school credit level. check PM for a link to donnayoung lesson plans if you plan to use Streams for high school. If you stick with CTG for the base of your high school credit ancients... you'll have to add a lot or you will only have a semester of material. I'm not 100% sure on this, but it's going to be 1 chapter every 2 weeks with projects, tests and supplemental reading.

hope some of that information helps in your planning.

cbollin

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Jul 03, 2012 12:41 pm

kerby wrote:
Tue Jul 03, 2012 11:52 am
These comments are confusing to me. Streams of Civ IS a HS level text. Yes, it's spread out over 2 yrs. so the dc would have .5 credit for history for each yr. And, if you beef it up using some of the AHL books, why wouldn't it be enough - especially for dc who have LD's or are not headed to college. I have a ds who *could* go to college (and I'm preparing him for that) but also struggles w/ reading and writing (diagnosed LD's). He is also leaning toward more vocational training at this point - currently taking classes at the career ctr.

I want him to have the Biblical foundation that CtG *AND* AHL would provide, but the reality is that AHL is just going to overwhelm him. So, do I deny him that learning? NO! Therefore, I am going to use CTG - keeping my *family **together (which is overall more important than anything), teaching the Biblical foundation (much, much more important), and still preparing him for whichever option he chooses later.

Would I like to challenge him and have him do AHL? Of course. I would love that! But, that's not the reality here. And, isn't it about making it work for your family? I am still using MFW's materials and guides, just adapting it to fit us/our needs.

(If there is a need for 4 full yrs of History, then you can make that work in other ways, while still keeping your family together - using MFW.)
Kerby
hi! ((hugs))

in the end, it's each family's decision... but in case my attempt the other day is confusing everyone else....

1. if one uses Streams of Civ.. volume 1 and intends it to be high school credit.... one should makes sure to use the entire book, along with the chapter projects, and should probably get different timeline pieces than what is in CTG. therefore...... if one wants to use CTG in high school, then one should make sure he/she knows that in CTG, the Streams book is not used at high school level. If one just did CTG as written.. it would be hard to call it a high school world history .5 credit.

2. New Answers Book - is used in AHL for Bible and apologetics... not history.

3. if one uses AHL for high school and has LD's going on (and for those who don't know.. I have 2 of my 3 children with LD's.. so I'm sensitive to that issue).... it might be easier on student and mom teacher (in some cases, not all) to scale back AHL a little bit rather than to beef up CTG. assume in this part, I am not talking about "low IQ" issues, but struggles with reading, writing. Low IQ is not discussed in this post.

The Bible will be more at their life stage in AHL, than Bible in CTG... one can adapt with audio book, or not do as much writing of answers and have it as family stuff time. compared to CTG where not the entire OT is read, and not a lot of other books to process life questions or apologetics. (there are some apologetics, but the level of the books is for much younger children at different learning stage)

The Notgrass book - that's history that isn't going to be difficult for LD reader.

The English credit in AHL is what is scary for LD learners. audio books, and spark notes to help with comprehension. Writing - they might need a tutor to help one on one if mom or dad isn't available to go over the week 1 essay prep. I'm thinking 7th grade Essentials in Writing for just the paragraph and essay lessons could be a summer course for upcoming 9th grader who needs more time in writing.

a lot of it in my opinion comes down to which is easier on teacher and student? to add a lot of material to a 5th-8th grade program to make it a carneige unit? or to go old school Joyce Herzog and adapt high school materials for the struggling learner?

yes.. as I've already said... Streams is written as 7th-12th grade text and when used with the Streams timeline, projects, tests would be a high school course. however, in CTG, it is not used that way...

I hope some of that helps clear up what I'm trying to contribute about using Streams for a high school course compared to using CTG as high school course.

-crystal

kerby
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:28 pm

Re: Using CtG...in high school?

Unread post by kerby » Tue Jul 03, 2012 1:30 pm

Thanks, Crystal. What you wrote out is more what I was thinking. Using Streams w/ its materials, not simply as CtG uses it. That's what I talked about by "beefing it up." I probably wasn't as clear either. ;) And, yes, as you talked about, it's more what will be easier for the family to adapt to make it work. One way for some, and another way for others. :)



ps - thanks for the support. ;)
In HIS hands,
K

4 Blessings - 2 graduated
K, 1rst, Adv, ECC, CtG, RtR, AHL

cbollin

AHL and Dyslexia

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:36 am

eduparent wrote:We are set to start school next week, but I keep coming back to MFW AHL! We finished 1850s-Modern this spring. My dc will be in 8th and 9th grades. The 9th grader has severe dyslexia and dysgraphia. To this point, I have always read most assignments aloud and let him answer questions and give reports orally. AHL seems to be set up so the student is more independent, which I would love, but I don't think he could handle it. Has anyone successfully used AHL with a special needs child? What did you do?

Also, we have always done school together. I have no doubt that my 8th grade dd can do any work her older brother can do, but will that mess up her high school rotation/transcript?

Should we just wait a year to start AHL? If so, what to do in the meantime?

Thanks for any ideas!
hmm... I toss around some ideas....

*audio books with the book in front of him.
*hmm.. on the oral reports, can he type his words and have someone help him edit? I'm sitting here thinking, well.. my friend Adam is totally blind, but can type and is a computer geek (systems admin).. so there has to be some kind of adaptive technology to help in your situation for what your child will need as an adult in the workforce?

things to think about for combining them?
*if 8th grader does AHL.. around here where I live, my umbrella school would not count the English done in 8th grade toward high school credit, unless student is a 9th grader. Some things in jr. high can count, but not everything.
I have other ideas, but don't seem to be able to word them correctly while typing. I know what I'd say in a conversation..but hmmm.

Anyway... in addition to any ideas anyone ventures to share, you might consider calling MFW's office and asking to speak to one of their senior level high school consultants
-crystal

jasntas
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: AHL and Dyslexia

Unread post by jasntas » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:27 pm

My ds is moderately dyslexic and has dysgraphia as well. He is starting 6th grade this year but I have already been planning on how we will deal with high school. I plan on having him use a lot of audio books. If your ds has an official dyslexia diagnosis you can use a program called Learning Ally for most, if not all of his textbooks on audio for a yearly fee. (It used to be free but still worth it). I also plan to have my ds use a program like Dragon Naturally Speaking for reports and stuff. The student speaks and the program types it up. Those are some of the accommodations I plan to implement. HTH
Tammie - Wife to James for 27 years
Mom to Justin (15) and Carissa (12)
ADV & K 2009-2010 . . . RTR (again) & WHL 2016-2017
http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/
The days of a mother are long but the years are short.

cbollin

Re: AHL and Dyslexia

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Aug 08, 2012 10:10 am

just some general encouragement here..... I was just listening to K Love radio..... Tim Tebow (ooh.. famous homeschooled person) apparently has dyslexia. The radio news spot was talking about how he makes flash cards to learn the play books, and then does hands on learning for really understanding it.....and even one of the coaches on his new team has dyslexia.

just wanted to encourage with that.. I heard it and thought about this thread.

-crystal

LSH in MS
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:26 am

Re: AHL and Dyslexia

Unread post by LSH in MS » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:28 am

I would also recommend audio books, particularly for the long Bible readings. I found an abridged version of the Iliad read by Derek Jacobi. It's a great recording! WIth my dyslexic son, I will probably have him use that recording and follow along in the book, but just do the abridged version. I will also adapt the writing assignments if needed.

For Epic of Gilgamesh I will probably have to help him understand that one, perhaps take turns reading it aloud and discussing it.

I think that he won't be able to be as independent with AHL as his older brothers, but he still can do the work.
Lori

wife to Clifford, mother to ds (17), ds (16), ds (15, ds (13), ds (8), and ds (3)
MFW user for 10 years

cbollin

Re: AHL and Dyslexia

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Aug 08, 2012 11:42 am

here's archive thread on audio in AHL.
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 99&#p65599

including Lori's recommendation with Jacobi reading.

Another option to look at, might be Lit2Go

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