Combining siblings in the same hs level

[Julie in MN]

What to buy when teaching two .... or three

Both of my highschoolers will be using the Ancient History and Literature package (I'm surprised that they BOTH wanted to work together!). The catalog states that we need a copy of several of the books for each student. I understand the Bible portion, but is there a reason we would need an extra copy of the Iliad and an extra copy of the Odyssey? We already own the other books marked as such, so I'll get the additional copy in the package.

All of this can be resolved at the convention but I'd like an idea of the cost ahead of time. Thanks so much!
Tami

Tami,
I'm guessing that both teens may be reading the book to themselves at the same time... and you don't want one waiting a long time for the other to finish?
Julie

[DS4home]

Will high school be like the 5 year cycle where the younger children can join in w/ whatever year the older ones are doing? Or will each child need to complete year 1 of high school before moving on to year 2 and so on?

I realize this question may not have an answer yet, and I don't need an answer immediately, but I am just curious. :)

So far when I look at curriculum choices, MFW seems to have the best overall options for ALL my children, not just some.
Jennifer

To have 2 students using it at the same time, you would almost need to have 2 sets of books. I suppose you could create a staggered schedule to be able to share, but I'm thinking that could get a little nutty. There is a fair amount of reading daily and I have one fast reader and one slow - I don't think sharing would work (in our house anyway) :) I would go ahead and start each freshman in year 1 and work your way through. Kind of thinking out loud hear as I'll have two high schoolers after this year. So I need to plan this out too! :)

Dawn

[Lucy]

Hi,
As the time gets closer you may decide to keep your kids separate since this would give your 4th grader the opportunity to complete all of cycle before heading for high school and would allow your 2nd grader one more year to have a sibling to do the curriculum with together.

After having a high schooler in MFW for the first time last year I agree with Dawn that trying to share the readers would be difficult. I do not think that you would need to buy 2 complete high school curriculum's. MFW allows for the lesson plans to be copied for a 2nd student in the same family. They have also thought through which books, such as the readers, that a each child would need a copy of. So call the office again when you get there!

Lucy

[JenniferJ]

I see in the catalog that several of the readers/books are recommended one for each student. It's not too many!

Well the reason I considered keeping the middles together is because the older one is a boy w/ learning disabilities and the younger is a very motivated girl, so they are on a very similar level. And if I keep buying in Feb., she would be a second semester 8th grader when starting Ancients and a first semester 9th grader when finished.

But I will consider what you said. Maybe it would even be good for that ds to move on by himself! If I went w/ my plan, he would be somewhat behind...

One thing I have noticed about Mfw are the many viable options in long term planning! I don't have to have a plan set in stone, but I like being able to clearly see my options.

Thanks!

[gressman9]

I know I have permission to make copies of the Manual and the Lit. guide for siblings, but I was wondering how others approached this.

For the manual, I'm thinking I will just copy the weekly grids, put them in a binder for her, and instruct her not to write in the manual. For the Lit. guide, it seems the whole thing would need to be copied. Anyone know how much it would cost to have someone like Kinko's do this? I'm trying to decide if it would be easier just to buy a new Lit. guide for each child. Of course, if I copy it, then I will always have the original version intact. Then I would not have to worry about revisions and stuff.

Wondering what others have done.

I have been letting dd write her checkmarks in pencil on the schedule in the book. Any quizzes in the Lit supplement, I have copied. We did not copy the whole book. that seemed like too much work!
I was going to make all the copies as the books are expensive. I will not be using it again for 2 years, however, so if I do need to buy a new one it will at least have been a while.
Carylee
mom2seven

[Julie in MN]

I know there are not a lot of you who have used/using the high school..... but I was wondering if you could answer a question for me. I will be using the Ancients for two children next year. I will be in the US with my family in Michigan in September and bringing all my curriculum back to Australia. Only a few months later I will be taking all my curriculum with us to Indonesia..... Because of all the moving via an airplane and limited luggage, I am wondering what would be a MUST to order duplicates of for another child doing Ancients. There are several items on the website that say "may order another copy for additional child." I don't want to do a heap of photo copying either because that adds up too. I don't have a great printer either.

At first I thought I would just not order the extra books and sent an email to the office asking that question..... yet..... I am now wondering about the actual manual. Do I need two of those? What about the Literature supplement? I am a bit confused what each child will need! If I put sheet protectors over the pages and each child wrote on something different.... would that work???????? Because I have not physically "seen" the curriculum yet, I am a little in the dark.

Thanks for your help!
Lisa

Lisa,
I have "seen" high school but never "used" it, so take this with a grain of salt. But in your situation I see 3 things to decide on:

(1) For lesson plans, which they use daily to guide their work, will they be able to share & say check off things in different colored ink or something? How good are they at dealing with siblings having the materials they need at the moment?!

(2) For literature, will they be able to share vs. take turns on long books that they are reading over weeks?

(3) For the Bible study, I think I'd get two. I'm guessing it's a write-in-the-book kinda thing, and I'd hate to cramp their style on Bible.

(4) For the timeline book, I'd also get two. It's likely an important piece of their learning. As for the timeline figures themselves, I'd check to see if copies need to be made before you leave the country.

(5) For science and math, again I'd look at my particular kids. Do they need to highlight & mark up their books in order to learn well? Are they okay with doing these at different times of the day, or somehow taking turns reading to each other? And of course, are there science supplies you need to pick up in the US.

Best wishes. We all would like to have your courage (at my house, anyways!).
Julie

[DS4home]

Hi, We used Ancients 3 yrs ago and getting ready to use it again this year. I'm agreeing with all the things Julie mentioned. You can easily use one manual and just use two colors for marking work done, colored pencils might work nicely. *Editing to add that there is a little bit of copying you'll need to do out of the manual (handwiting pages for learning the Greek alphabet, and a couple of graph pages that keep track of all the kings), but it's not a lot.

Bible: OT Challenge is meant to be done in a spiral
PDL is mostly reading, they encourage you to respond as you read by writing in the margins and such (your choice), also make memory index cards.
Daniel study - they will each need their own

English: I think the Lit. supplement could be done in spirals, keeping the original clean. It is some reading, then some fill in the blanks, then a checklist of things to include in your writing assignment.

History: Spirals are needed for Notgrass, they have daily questions to answer, and quizes if you want to use them.
They will definately want to make their own timeline book.
Map Activities book - they need their own, but could share the Atlas

You would just need to make a rotating schedule for all of it to be shared, but certainly doable I hope this helps in your planning.

Dawn

[LA in Baltimore]

Dawn -
Just a question about the Map Activities Book...
I did my photocopies for the Map Activities book this week and we only needed about 8 or so pages copied for Ancients. I believe Lisa is going to use it with older high schoolers (might not be needing the book again for WHL, etc), so would she need more than one copy of Map Activities Book or just make photocopies as needed?
I'll be curious to see your answer because maybe I didn't make all the copies I needed to?!

LA

[DS4home]

You are right, the Map Activities book could also be photocopied. I guess I was thinking about sharing vs. separate. They would need separate map pages, either another book or copies. If you are planning on doing MFW's second year of high school, it will be used again.
I am curious, when you made your copies did you copy both the map and the assignment page? I remember that the assignment page has a few fill in the blank questions at the end. I suppose they could be done orally, if you didn't forget

Does that answer your question?

- Dawn

[LA in Baltimore]

Thanks for the feedback.
I did photocopy the assignment pages.

[gressman9]

we just used it this last year. I think you could even have them work on the timeline book together. This would save a lot of copying. And it would keep you from having to buy one less odd shaped book! My dd struggled a little with the timeline...I think she would have enjoyed a partner helping with it. It just depends on your children...if they like to work together or not.

Carylee
crazily busy, but blessed mom2seven

[8shininglights]

You have all been very helpful!!!

My children are not the same age (grade), so they won't be sharing their other subjects (science, math, electives).....I was thinking that one of them could be doing their math or science while the other was using the literature book. For those of you who have done Ancients, how long does it take to go through the Bible, English, and history? I realise it might be a different from day to day, but on average, how long would you say it takes? Do you think it would be equivalent to 1/2 their day when you look at science, math, and one elective?

When it comes to the Bible part, if it would help for them to have their own, I want to make studying their Bible as easy as possible. Do you write at all in the Taking the Old Testament Challenge? If it would help to have their own of that, I will do it.

In the Literature Supplement....is there a lot of things to write "in that book," or is it just lesson plans???????

I will slowly get this!!

Lisa

[gressman9]

My dd used a notebook for the Old Testament challenge book. The Lit supplement does have some pages where they have to fix sentences or chose the best answer...if I remember right. Still, my dd did NOT write in that book either. It was just too expensive of a book to be consumable in my opinion. She wrote her answers in a notebook.

Carylee

[DS4home]

Ditto what Carylee said. We used a notebook for OT and Lit, mostly because I knew we would use it 3 more times and didn't want to buy it again
The OT Challenge has no room for writing in it. It is just a list of questions right after another with no writing room. It's a smaller sized book.
Lit. Supplement is largely a worktext, designed to write in and be consumable. I just had her write all her answers in a notebook instead for reusability. I do that with a lot of books, planning on letting my last child get to write in the book and we will finally "consume" it

Dawn

[DS4home]

One more question for those who have used AHL. I am thinking that my kids would like to do their own timeline book. The recommendation is to each have their own book. It does say to order timeline figures for each child. Wouldn't they each need to have their own set of those too? Or, are there only a few pages that would need to be photocopied and cheaper to do it that way?

Thanks!
Lisa

The timeline figures they use are from HomeSchool in the Woods. It is a packet of 26 cardstock pages, with each page having 10 or so figures on it. They do give reproducible privileges within the family. So I guess you could go either way on this one. I am guessing MFW was maybe thinking families could copy them for less than $19.95? Either way, it is still the same amount of paper you will be packing and moving around.
Here it is August already, September will be here before you know it Hope you have a nice time back in Michigan.
Any more questions, please keep asking We enjoy helping.

Dawn

[DS4home]

Which of the books in this course are consumable, and therefore NEED a second book for another student studying it at the same time? I am trying to see what I need to order, and I am thinking maybe one copy of each thing is enough?

The Daniel Bible Study is consumable. They write and make markings all over it so you will need one per student.

Each student will need their own timeline book also.

The rest of it could be shared by writing answers in a spiral notebook, and having a creative schedule between the two

The Map Activities book. They will color and label the maps right in the book. Ok, it does say you can photo copy the pages. So you can go either way on that, I just got a new one for our 2nd child doing it.

HTH,
Dawn

[MFW-Lucy]

There are also grammar exercises in the Literature Supplement that could be written down in a spiral notebook, but would be easier to do in the book itself. I let my first child consume it and bought another one for my second child when it was time for him to do the program.

Lucy

[cbollin]

We will be doing the first three levels of highschool next year. I only have experience w/ AHL. I have 4th and 2nd grader doing CTG, a K"er, and I'm expecting #7 in Jan. If you were me, would you try to combine the hs'ers in year 3 (my oldest needs this)? I know the levels build on themselves, but I don't know if I can really pull this off. I have had all three levels for about a month now and I have looked at them a bit.

I'm just not for sure if it will work either way .

Blessings,
Missy

Missy,
standard disclaimers here..... call MFW office, ask to speak to one of their high school specialists.
and my oldest only just finished AHL last night... so what do I know?

with that out of the way:

No. I wouldn't try to make a 9th grader do the 11th grade program.

Am I reading this correctly:
next year you'll have
11th grader
10th grader
9th grader

4th and 2nd inCTG
a Ker'

and a new blessing due in January.

What has the 11th grader done in 9th and 10th.
what has the 10th grader done in 9th?
in other words, who has done AHL already, and who did WHL. (or maybe that's in your siggy line and I forgot to look)

not sure I have any ideas (in fact, I'm positive I"m clueless).. but at least willing to brainstorm out loud a bit...

-crystal

[DS4home]

I would agree on not combining the high schoolers. With the nature of high school being so independent anyway, I would just let them each be in their own level.

Science, though, would maybe be a subject they could do together? What have the older ones used for science? Would it be possible to let a couple of them do something like Biology together? Just a thought, without knowing any more details yet

Dawn

[Missy OH]

Hee hee! I left some of the details out because I can't figure out a way to say it all without confusing myself.

In a nutshell: our older dc started school late because of speech and language issues and have asked if we would consider moving them up a level because they would be 19 when they graduated and we agreed. My oldest did Ahl for 1/2 a year and then we switched to Abeka because we thought we would be putting them in private school, but we will not be. He will finish doing the Notgrass world history book over the summer to complete his world history credit and he earned a geography credit using Abeka. All three of my oldest learned how to write essays this year. I am hesitant about putting my will be 9th grader in the 11th grade curriculum, but I'm afraid I'm going to sink next year. Maybe I'm just over thinking this because I'm newly pregnant and well you know how that is.

Yes I could probably combine two of them in Biology but science is one thing I know they can complete w/out me. I've already been through two of the courses so it's just Chemistry that will be new for me. I'm glad you brought it up, because I didn't even consider it. I do have two doing geometry together because we chose to do it out of order for my oldest. He did AL1 and AL2 in a row.

I think what is bothering me is I like to read the books the dc are reading and be able to discuss it with them and I don't think I can read all the books to keep up with them in three levels. I know the highschool levels are independent but I don't want my dc working all day without school interaction w/ me. I don't know if I'm explaining myself right, but my boys like to discuss what they are learning with me when it comes to Bible/history/lit and we enjoy it. We are a talkative family.

Please keep thinking with me ladies. I appreciate it. It really helps for me to "talk" it out.

At least this is my 2nd time through CTG, and I've done MFWK and MFW1 so many times I basically I have it memorized. LOL>

[DS4home]

I know it looks like a lot on paper. Maybe you could look at it this way, the oldest 3 are taking themselves through high school (ie: very independently), while you are teaching the youngers CTG and K. Most of your time will be actually teaching the youngers.

Once you get the olders set up they should cruise right along, with you checking in on them on Fridays. This works in well because Fridays are scheduled to be light days in CTG, so you will have more time to be able to switch gears and focus the day more on your high schoolers. It might be a good idea to start the older ones on their work a couple of weeks before the others to help them get up and running for the year.

Ok, as I am typing I am thinking, "there's no way I could actually wait till Fri to talk every week ", but the Friday parent conference is scheduled into the curriculum. I hear what you're saying.

Last year I had two in high school, one ds plus a friend that I taught yr.5 to, and my youngest in Kind. It was an interesting year I had to give on some things. I relied on the Hazell's experience and selections much more heavily than before. In other words, I no longer read the high school books. But they still like to tell me about what they read, and I enjoy hearing them share from the perspective of not knowing it already. Some of those discussions can easily happen over the dinner table or evenings, after your other teaching obligations are done for the day. As I'm sure you are well aware, some of this is simply scheduling issues. I like to do our group learning first, then get them going on individual work, as I go around the room and help where needed. My high schoolers were often in the room with us, so yes, I was still there to ask a question or make a comment about something interesting they just read. So I guess I'm trying to say that it still felt like they were a part of the family, even if I didn't know the details of everything they were reading and studying every day.

It has definately been a learning curve. Learning what letting go kind of feels like, before they actually head out the door someday. Still learning that. My oldest graduated from our hs and is still living with us this year. There has been a lot of letting go even though she is still here; and I'm so glad that she is still here and I get to influence her in her independence. We have had some really sweet talk times late in the evenings... but I digress, We were talking about your school for next year weren't we?

What other questions or thoughts do you have? It is fun to think outloud a bit.

Dawn

[Missy OH]

Dawn,

Thank you for your last post. Thank you for sharing how it was schooling two highschoolers and for sharing about your daughter. You are so right. I don't need to read every book they do, and they can still share what they are learning. They do that now, and I certainly don't read every book they do. I could just read some of them. Maybe I can talk my dh in keeping up with one of their bible studies for me. He could keep up the Bible w/ the oldest. I have gotten 1/2 way through AHL Bible and I could finish it over the summer, and that just leaves keeping up w/ world history bible. Thank you, I really needed to talk about this and Dawn you knew just what I needed to hear.

At the moment I'm feeling much better.

Blessings,
Missy

[cbollin]

I know what you mean on trying to keep on some of the high school reading a bit to have a clue about discussion time. I know my oldest didn't wait until conference time. She would often come out and tell me stuff. or we all ended up reading sections together from parts that made us go "what?"

I had these plans to listen on audio books to Fagles translations of Homer... but never did. still haven't. I guess in some ways we had some trusting of Marie's decisions/selections. but having been customer for so oooooooooo long.. that wasn't hard to do. I knew there would be stuff to discuss, harder topics that were important.. and my kid never shuts up anyway...

one thing in my mind is that since they learned more about essay writing, that might mean that they need less one on one instruction time from you in the writing portion in ahl. that would be nice.

it's going to be fine after you get it all started and going. you might even see about starting them (high schoolers) several weeks well ahead of the elementary age children.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Hello! My 9th grade son is working through AHL this year. Next fall he will move on to World History and Lit. Meanwhile, my 8th grade son is competing ECC (along with our 6th, 4th, 2nd and 1st graders). Do you recommend our 8th grader jump in with WHL so that he and his brother are in the same time period of study?

Also, we were previously working with a different classical curric. in which all of our kids completed the medieval year. After we complete ECC, may we jump in with Exploration to 1850 (for some review, some cross-over with WHL, and some new info as we transition to the MFW track)? I suppose the main question here is: How do MFW families keep everyone in the same era for study once the high school years roll around?

Thanks so much for your insight!
Molly

Hi Molly,
You could always call the office and get their wisdom. And hopefully some families with 2 high schoolers will have time to join in the conversation.

But I think the usual recommendation will be to have the 9th grader to 9th grade, and the 10th grader do 10th. The progression of skills flows better that way, first doing ancient history and Old Testament and basic essays, before progressing to WHL.

I've also talked to teens at convention and it seems like working together in high school can often end up holding one or the other student back.

That said, you know your family's needs best. Doing WHL won't be a huge jump for a 9th grader the way US1 and US2 would be. I'm sure an experienced homeschooler like yourself could tone down some assignments in WHL this next year, and beef some up the following year when he does AHL in 10th.

About your other kids, yes, after ECC then families move into the time period where they are at, especially if the oldest in that group is in 6th-8th grade and you've laid a good foundation in your previous school years.

I wouldn't expect, though, to keep all subjects together with the high schoolers. Yes, there are some overlaps in topics, but the pace will be all off. Elementary kids may stop and spend a few weeks on something like the 10 commandments, and high schoolers may stop and spend a semester on something like government during the time of the forming of our nation, and neither might be appropriate for the other age group. It's kind of like math - yes, everyone might be using some addition in their math class, but it's just really not going to meet everyone's needs to do it together, especially when you get to earning credits for a high school transcript.

The family can do things together, though. Everyone can enjoy a project or a recipe. Everyone might gather to watch high school science labs. Essays and notebook pages can be read aloud to the family. Maybe there will be an elective that the whole family can enjoy together, such as the classical music or God & The History of Art, both of which can be part of a high school Fine Arts credit.

HTH,
Julie

[marmiemama]

Hi Molly,
I'm new to MFW this year, (14th year hs'ing, though) with only our youngest doing MFW K this year. Next year, I will have one graduated, one in 11th (probably will do World History and Lit), and two middle ones. I've tossed around my options for these two middles: one will be in 8th, the other in 7th. The younger of the two is adopted from China, only 4 months younger, but we have her in one grade younger (birthdays fell that way anyway).

I can only speak for my two, as they have a unique situation, but my older of the two would really like to have her "own" program; to really feel like she is a year older. I will most likely be doing them both in ECC next year, but then they will separate. Older dd will move on through the high school cores. The following year, depending on the maturity/reading comprehension level of the younger of the two, I will either begin her in the first of the high school years, or actually hold her in the Investigate years for one more year. So, I think that Julie's advice is sound, that there is a need to be working at a very distinct pace in those high school years. All the best in your choices!