AHL - User tips for hurdles that first week of high school

[cbollin]

The literature week 1 has us writing a paper. We have never read the literature that is mentioned in the questions nor heard of some of the authors. She was very discouraged because there was so much unfamiliar territory there.

Also, the Answers book she said is very hard to understand and we have done a lot of creation work before.

The only thing I have to encourage you is that the program was tested by about 40 or so families and plenty of them had 9th graders. And not all of them were super genius types either. It's possible that the first day is a bit tougher while getting back to school or something. I've heard out there that the first day was the one day that was not meant to be done independently or something???

Well, I'm sure those who piloted it last year must have some real help. Or even those who are just getting started this year. :)

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Like Crystal, I haven't done MFW high school yet but I want to encourage you while you're waiting for those experienced folks to chime in.

I tutor kids part-time and one thing I have to tell the older ones is that when you get to a level where you're reading words that your friends don't use, there is going to be a learning curve. You have to sort-of "immerse" yourself in that level of language and let it sink in. Kinda like going to a Shakespeare play. At first, it sounds like gobbledy-gook. But after about 15 minutes, you aren't even aware that they sounded funny at first.

Another change when you get to higher level work is that you won't always like every author you read. It's a change from just getting a kid to like reading -- reading anything they like -- to exposing a kid to the thoughts and ideas that will make a well read & deeper understanding citizen out of him or her. It's okay to not prefer certain authors that you have read -- that's a grown-up thing to do!

Well, just some thoughts as you spend a few days getting used to the program and wait for more experienced help. (Oh, and most of the folks at the office also have high schoolers -- so calling might be just the thing!)

[MJ in IL]

Well, we just finished Day2 with dd14...does that count? I am not familiar with all of the literature selections/authors used in the examples. I had her read a quick short story by EAPoe just so she knew he was real (she asked about him being real). I explained that the examples were there to illustrate a concept, not to have read all of those materials. We outlined the 4 points in a thesis statement (in her words).

Dd writes well but has been doing IEW for several years. This is a new format. We now have a topic and a thesis statement. I did have to guide through this. I don't have much other advice until we get a bit further. That's where we are though.

She likes the Answers book. From dd: The 1st chapter was really long and dragged on. Once you start getting farther into the book, it becomes more interesting.

I do have a friend whose dd just finished AHL (starting with the 2nd year!) They loved AHL & both felt it was a valuable year in learning and maturing. Her dd is a bit older, but adopted from another country so academics have not always come easily. HTH!

[Lucy]

Hi Bakermom,

My daughter used this program last year and by far the writing was the most challenging aspect of the program. Remember that you will be looking for progress throughout the year and that she will grow as a writer. Every time we came to an argumentative paper in the year we went back and reread the first 5 lessons and exercises. It is a hard medium for many to write in. We tried to keep it simple and not worry about length but that each point in her topic sentences were backed up.

O.K. I know that was not exactly what you asked but just wanted you to know that this is a struggle and it must be worked through and over come to prepare them for college. This by the way is the kind of writing that is used mostly in college and is the kind of 5 paragraph paper they have to write on ACT/SAT test. This is intended to be used for the first year of high school so that as they prepare for ACT/SAT they will have had that kind of writing already.

The first exercise in lesson 1, as Molly mentioned, is not assuming that you have read these selections. The goal is to be able to understand what a good topic would be for an argumentative paper. Remember from the paragraph before the exercise that a good topic must be somewhat narrowed. So for example computers is too broad but The value of computers is something that is narrow enough to make an argument around. So even if you have not read the Odyssey yet you can know that The plot of the Odyssey would be too broad where as The true meaning of life according to the Odyssey is something that you could base an argumentative paper on. So the idea is to learn what a good topic would be. It is o.k. to peak at a few of the answers to see what a good topic would be.

You do not have to use any of the ideas in lesson 1 for the paper that your daughter will write. My daughter's topic was: Driving with cell phones is dangerous. For this first paper let her choose something that she is interested in and will have some knowledge about. It does not have to be based on a book for this first one.

I want to encourage you by saying that if you will work through this with your daughter and struggle with it that you will see growth in her writing and in her understanding of how to write an argumentative paper. Finally by the last paper my daughter wrote, I felt she was understanding how to do this with a piece of literature,which is harder than just choosing your own topic. So it may get harder before it gets easier, but as Julie mentioned this learning curve will be well worth it. I felt is was better to have her struggle now than later during her freshman year in college.

It helped before she read a book to look at some of the possible topics suggested so that as she read she could remember or even write down some thoughts she may use from the book in her paper. It also helped her to make an outline with her topics and then the points that she would back her topic up with. I helped her do this the first time or 2 and then I let her struggle through it giving her help when she got stuck. I was only able to help her up to a certain point since I did not read all the books that she had to write papers on.

My daughter was not so wild about The New Answers book either. It is a hard book to read because it makes you think hard and the readings are long. This book is used heavily the first 2 weeks and sporadically up through about week 15.

I hope something in all of that helps you and encourages you that it is worth it.

Peace and grace,
Lucy

[cbollin]

This by the way is the kind of writing that is used mostly in college and is the kind of 5 paragraph paper they have to write on ACT/SAT test. This is intended to be used for the first year of high school so that as they prepare for ACT/SAT they will have had that kind of writing already.

not exactly on the same topic, but on my mind right now as we get ready to start Exercise 3 in Writing Strands book 5. I'm really glad that we are using Writing Strands right now because persuasive essays and argumentative writing is taught in WS book 5. In the MFW scope and sequence stuff --- that book can be used in 6th or 7th grade for students who come up through the series (assumes they have done book 3 and 4 when younger of course).

So, for those of us just following along on this thread and plan to come up through MFW years --- it's going to be covered. And as Lucy mentioned, for those who didn't necessarily use WS as a series of books, you'll be able to learn it along the way in 9th grade. So it's covered, but some kids might need more as they enter 9th grade.

-crystal

[gressman9]

We just finished week 1 with dd almost 14! YEAH!! Well.....actually she still has to finish that paper. She showed me her "finished" paper yesterday. I said, "I don't think so." She had done everything independently. Normally she is an excellent writer. But she has never written this kind of paper. I hope it isn't "cheating" but I went back over each step with her and explained it and gave her more examples. We basically wrote the paper together. She is going to finish the conclusion on her own. It just seemed like she needed some extra help with this being the first time.

She says she likes the Answers book. In fact the topic she chose for the paper was that the Earth is not Millions of years old.

Carylee
mom2seven
homeschoolblogger.com/drawandwritehistorymom

[MJ in IL]

We finished week 1 also. Dd completed her paper and I am looking forward to using the guidelines to grade it. Carylee-I helped too! I loved our "meeting" although it took longer than I expected, we got off on a lengthy discussion of the foreshadowing in Gen 3:15. (How cool is that?)

My dd needs guidance in the World history book to not just find the answer in the book and parrot it back. I would like to work on her interpreting and sharing what she learned, not just what the author says.

We reviewed some of the Answers book also. She has decided it is interesting, but she doesn't love it. We can work with that! She also said she occassionally gets distracted when she finds herself trying to read with an Australian accent!?!

We are only able to get in a partial week this upcoming week and will add in science. The following week math and electives will be added in with our co-op.

Overall, she has enjoyed the independence, the Old Testament book, and the writing most. I'm looking forward to seeing how she grows this year!

[Julie in MN]

Molly,
Thanks for taking the time to update us!

I would like to work on her interpreting and sharing what she learned, not just what the author says.

I find this is a big hurdle for some kids -- A kid like my son has lots to say on his own & has to be pulled back some! However, other kids (my daughter, as well as some of the kids I tutor) seem to think only the teacher or the textbook author knows the right answer.

I tell my tutoring students that the first step is to understand and report what you read, like an elementary book report or a narration. But to be a real author (even of a short paper), you have to add something little thing just from you -- some connection you made or an idea that was especially good/bad (with supporting reasons) or even just a good clarification of the main points or something...

Otherwise, the reader can just read the other person's work themselves -- you have to offer something more so they'll have a reason to read *your* piece!

Well, just relating to what you said!

[Lucy]

I hope it isn't "cheating" but I went back over each step with her and explained it and gave her more examples. We basically wrote the paper together. She is going to finish the conclusion on her own. It just seemed like she needed some extra help with this being the first time.

Carylee,

This is not cheating. You have to be the parent and the teacher. Imagine that your 9th grader comes home with this assignment. Would you give her no help as she is learning this new process? It is hard to write in this form and especially in this first paper she needed lots of guidance. Expect to help her again when she has to do it using only the literature to support her argument. As I said earlier, each time we wrote last year, I basically went back over those first 5 lessons to remind her how to set up her paper and then we would talk through an outline. As the year progressed she was able to do more of this process on her own.

So glad you made it through that first week.:)

Lucy

[Julie in MN]

I did what the guide suggested and just started my dd13. My other dc will start next week. Good thing. Dd spent the entire morning complaining. Also dd accidentally did the first lesson of the Epic of Gilgamesh instead of the Composition lesson. That brought on a flood of tears of frustration. So, I told her to just do it tomorrow. Next, she starts her math (her idea) and immediately the tears begin to flow again...not b/c it is too hard but b/c it is too easy! HAH! I didn't even make her do all 30 problems (she is in Saxon Alg. 1)! We haven't even added science, Spanish or Logic yet! I can't figure out if this is just too tough for her (she is a young 9th grader...won't turn 14 until end of Nov.) or just 1st day "jitters". Please help! Any advice/encouragement would be so appreciated! I had such high hopes for this year, especially since this child WANTED to come back home to homeschool the high school years. I think PS spoiled her last year with the easy and light workload. She didn't have to "think".

Sue,
<<hugs>> I'm sure I'll be right there in the trenches in a couple of weeks.

First, I'm wondering about your child's age. My 9th grader will turn *15* in November, so he was doing 8th grade work at your dd's age. Did she skip ahead a grade? Is she ready for high school, do you think?

If you think she's ready, then just keep in mind that this is a transition. 9th wasn't even high school when I was a kid. I imagine that my ds will need me to model almost everything that first week, so he can be drawn into the subject matter and see how the tasks can be accomplished.

Second, about math. Algebra was a BIG transition for my ds, partly because of doing so many problems each day. It took probably 2/3 of the year for him to get used to that. It really helped when another mom told him that if he wasn't spending at least an hour on math at his age, then the math he was doing was too easy for him!

However, I did let my ds skip some early Algebra problems. A few times, he skipped LOTS of problems. At first I worried about that, but then I realized that different students will have slightly different needs. I always told him that if I began to see errors, then those problems would still be sitting there waiting to be done I'd guess that after about 1/3 of the year, my son was no longer skipping anything except in rare cases. (We didn't use Saxon, because I already had something from my older dd, but I'd think most Algebra programs are similar.)

And finally, turn it over to God. He knows what to do.
Julie

[dhudson]

Haven't done high school yet but I would give it a week or two before you start making big changes. The first day is always difficult. Do you have any incentives in place for work done well, diligently with no whining or complaining? They could be extra computer time, a special treat, more time with friends, a later bedtime, or a week with no whining, going to watch(or renting) a movie, getting a new book...etc.

At my house diligence gets rewarded but whining and complaining gets you more work (another page or math, clean a toilet, pick weeds) and privileges taken away. Of course, my kids and many of their friends are sure that I am the meanest Mom in the world so take that into account.

[cbollin]

My oldest has some ideas to share on this. I'll let her chime in later. (she's mfwstudent on the board)

That first day/week in AHL, "mfwstudent" and I worked together in the program side by side and we worked together most of the first week to try establishing some ideas to help her study in her room, and when to ask for help and when to just "come and whine for a minute". This meant we did some clock watching to walk through the first week's lessons. She struggled a lot with the first writing assignment.

No, it doesn't have to stay like this all year. Day 1 is a bit hard. You might have her in a program too early for her age. Or she might be needing to shake off the cobwebs of summer.

-crystal

[Sue G in PA]

I'm sure there are some summer "cobwebs" to shake off. Dd and I did talk about her first day a bit ago and she couldn't pinpoint exactly what her issue was. Seems she was a bit overwhelmed with the transition from middle school work to high school work AND that ps was very easy on her last year. As to her age...she started K at age 4 when the state cut-off was Dec. 1 for K (so she turned 5 in Nov. of her K year). It has always been fine as she was academically and socially mature enough to handle the work. Up until very recently, we've not had any issues. Even after 4 years at home, ps 8th gr. was a piece of cake for her last year. However, I do know that AHL is challenging and so perhaps she is a bit "young". But, according to the state, she is in 9th gr. and should be accumulating her credits for graduation starting this year, kwim? I'm going to give it this week. If her attitude doesn't improve, dh and I shall re-evaluate and go from there. I am very interested to hear from your dd, Crystal. Thank you!

[LA in Baltimore]

I'd definitely give it a week or two before making any changes. (JMHO )
I made sure I was available that first week we did AHL, if my son had any questions.
Some of the work (literature supplement) we walked through together.
The whole concept of working independently most of the day can be a bit overwhelming for some.
AHL definitely falls into a nice pattern after a while, but like anything "new" you have to find your way in it at the beginning.

[mfwstudent]

((hugs)) to you both. It’s her first day of high school with a program like MFW. It’ll get better as time goes on. And if the work continues to be too long, then she can do some of the next day’s lessons at night. I don’t always get it done in 6 hours straight. I’m in week 7.

New Answers Book has some long chapters. I usually do it as the last thing in the day, even though it is scheduled earlier.

Also dd accidentally did the first lesson of the Epic of Gilgamesh instead of the Composition lesson. That brought on a flood of tears of frustration. So, I told her to just do it tomorrow.

It’s divided into several parts. But each part continues on the page numbering from the last part. The manual say what page number the lesson is on. Example: I have the lit. and comp. guide schedule. It says “p.x sample topic” I go to page x and find the heading “sample topic” and do that day’s lesson. Just know that this week is an introduction to the Argumentative Essay, so she’ll probably be pulling her hair out by the end of it. (I know I did.) It gets easier. I got over it. Expect to work with her on this and help a lot. My parents did it with me several times to help me out. I hate writing!!!

Next, she starts her math (her idea) and immediately the tears begin to flow again...not b/c it is too hard but b/c it is too easy! HAH! I didn't even make her do all 30 problems (she is in Saxon Alg. 1)!

The first few lessons in Algebra 1 are review of stuff covered in 8/7 and Alg. ½. That’s common in Math textbooks to start out with a week or two of review to shake off the cobwebs of summer. It gets to be more new stuff and less review as the year goes on. With the MFW plans that Mr. Smith wrote, the load gets lighter as the year goes on. It turns from “1-30 all” every day to more often “2-30 even” or “1-29 odd” or smaller portions. It will pick up.

We haven't even added science, Spanish or Logic yet! I can't figure out if this is just too tough for her (she is a young 9th grader...won't turn 14 until end of Nov.) or just 1st day "jitters". Please help!

Logic shouldn’t be such a big deal. It should only add half an hour or less. But you could wait until 2nd semester if you needed to.
What are you using for Spanish and Science?

And also, Mom and I have called the MFW office a lot for teaching/learning tips on using this program. You might consider calling and asking for Mr. Bret or Ms. Lucy. or one of the other high school consultants.

PS: Hey, mom, since you're always on here and read everything.... Can I count this as English today?

[4Truth]

Umm, she's 13. Think that might account for some of it? My dd was *very* emotional when she was 13. Rough year. I mean EVERYTHING upset her. I found her crying in the closet one time, and I was clueless.

But we both recovered.

Like Crystal, I worked very closely with my dd during that first week of AHL, then a little bit less the next week, and so on. It really does get better as she adapts to the new workload. Give it some time... and prayer! ((HUGS))

[Sue G in PA]

Thanks everyone. I'm sure there are some summer "cobwebs" to shake off. Dd and I did talk about her first day a bit ago and she couldn't pinpoint exactly what her issue was. Seems she was a bit overwhelmed with the transition from middle school work to high school work AND that ps was very easy on her last year. As to her age...she started K at age 4 when the state cut-off was Dec. 1 for K (so she turned 5 in Nov. of her K year). According to the state, she is in 9th gr. and should be accumulating her credits for graduation starting this year, kwim? It has always been fine as she was academically and socially mature enough to handle the work. I'm going to give it this week. If her attitude doesn't improve, dh and I shall re-evaluate and go from there.

And thank you mfwstudent! I let my dd read your post and it re-assured her that she wasn't "stupid" (not that she will believe me, but...). She also hates writing. It will get better, I know. It just wasn't the sort of first day that I had hoped for, kwim? And I have next week with all 6 (plus the toddler) so I was sort of hoping she would just "take off" with the manual. She has been independent in her schoolwork since we began homeschooling her in 4th grade. I do plan to stick close to her this week, as I did today. Hopefully, tomorrow will be a less emotional day. HAH!

[hsmom3]

The first week was tough for us as well. We've homeschooled from the beginning but the high school material had a different feel. We're now in week 6 and he's doing fine. It is challenging for him as I guess it should be. I sat with him the first week or two just to get him started. Now he works on his own pretty much.

I wish you the best. I know it can be frustrating but I think if you stick with it, it will be better.

Blessings,
Susan

[cbollin]

Second week of AHL with dd13. After getting into a rhythm last week, she has set off on her own, except for the occasional math question. So far, she is only doing English, History, Bible, Math, Science (Apologia Physical) (and we haven't done a lab yet. Still haven't figured out how to fit those in while teaching my other 6. Anyway, dd13 is typically finished most of her work by lunchtime..starting at 9am. That just doesn't seem to jive. She saves her Answers book reading and other reading until bedtime (about an hour of reading total). Mind you, I haven't checked her work for quality and thoughtfulness yet. What are we/I doing wrong? Spanish starts in September when the books come and Latin will start in October so that will add to her time but it sure seems like a short day. Her younger brothers are complaining that their sister, a 9th grader, is finished before them every day! Help!

thinking out loud:
she's doing
Bible
English
History
Science -- she needs to do the labs on her own at this point since she doesn't have the time constraints
Math

that's 5 subjects, she's taking 4 daytime hours (9-1) and one hour in the evening. That sounds ok for now for overall time with that number of subjects with an efficient worker.

Things to look for:
when she is done with academics at 1, what are her other responsibilities and activities?
Can she set aside some work at 12:30 and be the lunch maker for everyone and then finish up school?
Can she be assigned an elective to do after lunch, or teach youngest kids or something? How about science lab after lunch (she can read and set it up) and do lab reports.
I would take a 10-15 minute check in on daily work when she says she is done and during that time she can call out math drills for younger kids, or make her bed.
And make sure on the readings that don't have writing assignments (New Answers book), that she at least narrates something back to you from the chapter.

any of those ideas seem useful?

-crystal

[Missy OH]

Yes, I agree she should be doing labs by herself. I think it's awesome she can do her work so quickly as long as she is taking the time to understand what she is reading. Let's just say we can't come close to that here. You will be doing more in a couple of weeks.

Blessings,
Missy

[Sue G in PA]

Crystal, your ideas are always helpful. Thanks to both of you. I checked over her work last night and asked her this morning to put a bit more thought into her BIble journal questions and answers. Seemed she was rushing through. Typical. I'll speak to her about labs b/c I agree she should be able to do them on her own. AND, once Spanish starts, she'll have more to do. Any ideas for electives? We are going to do Logic second semester...after Christmas break.

[Julie in MN]

You know, if she's schooling 9-1 (before lunch, so no lunch break) and then adds an hour at bedtime, that's already 5 hours. Then when you add Spanish, Latin, and maybe another elective, she will be very busy. Some of those things will ramp up as you go, too, such as reading the Iliad and learning more complex foreign language details.

I'd just tell the other kids that she's starting slowly, don't worry, she'll pass you up

And about the labs, I'm sure she *could* do them on her own, but doing them with someone else isn't a big deal, either, and can be kinda fun. She might do them on weekends with dad or find a friend who'd like to do labs with her, too.

Julie

[cbollin]

I just received my order of AHL yesterday - very overwhelming!! Wondering if my 14 yr old Daughter will manage it. We have done Sonlight for years just wasn't too keen on their high school cores. We always finished the books in all the cores, so not a problem, this just looks so indepth - I mean how is a 14-15 year old supposed to grasp the Iliad and the Odyssey??? Has anyone had any problems with it - I love the indepthness (??) I certainly didn't get any of this in my education, and my son will be a Junior at a Christian school and his curriculum pales in comparison, so I am excited about it, my daughter is not however. But I don't think she'd be excited about anything related to school unfortunately. Anyway I guess what I'm wondering is can I do this???

Welcome along!

My oldest just finished AHL a few weeks ago. She's 15, just did 9th grade.

Iliad and Odyssey are done one chapter a day and there are questions along the way in the lit/comp supplement. MFW has notes in the AHL daily lessons plans for using audio books, or things like spark notes, cliff notes.. to help when needed. They don't start those books until later in the year after having plenty of time to study Old Testament. There are even notes that if Iliad gets to be too much how to drop it and get the story from other sources. It's all a little at a time.

Take it a little at a time. Some days the reading in Odyssey was long. My oldest didn't like parts of it. That's ok. No one expects every student to like every part of every part in school.

I think you can do it. One of my real life friends didn't start homeschooling until his 3rd child was in middle of 10th grade and pulled from public school. They did find as newbie homeschoolers using MFW and just following the plans.

-crystal

[hsmom3]

Like you, I felt unsure last year when I purchased AHL. I have a son that's not a big reader so I wasn't sure if he could handle it. Well we just finished a couple of weeks ago and I'm very pleased with the results. One thing that helped is that I purchased The Illiad book on CD on the bargain table at Borders and I listened with him. Then I read The Odyssey aloud because it had been a long time since I'd read it. My son learns well by listening so I did whatever I could to help. All the other reading he did on his own. Now my daughter will begin AHL in a couple of weeks and I feel much better having just gone through it with my son.

I hope you find peace about what to do. I know it can be overwhelming making high school curriculum choices.

Blessings,
Susan

[Julie in MN]

If it's the Iliad & Odyssey that are scaring you, then put those in the basement and don't think about them now Just get ready for the rest of the year, go along as planned, and when it gets to about week 19 (2nd semester), then get them out & look at them again. If they still seem scary, post over here for ideas. At that point, you'll have a better idea of what she is capable of, and what she needs to finish for her high school credits.

For my ds, a good reader but one who does not like to read, we used a lot of audiobooks this year, including the abridged Iliad that is recommended in the manual. It doesn't change any of the words, it just takes out some chunks (you listen to one battle in detail, not every one, etc.).

Also, the Iliad study is very gentle. Marie gives questions in the manual to think about as you read -- things that have to do with Biblical ways vs. Greek ways. In fact the manual says that the Iliad is somewhat optional, anyways. So don't worry yourself about the Iliad, since you can skip it if need be.

The Odyssey is studied in depth at the end of the year, and by then my ds had grown a lot and was able to handle more. However, we did switch up some things for him, so that's always a possibility. I won't fill your head with those ideas yet, though, because you may well be fine, but there are Teaching Company lectures and Sparknotes and other helps out there, too, if you still are worried when you get there.

When I started AHL, David Hazell told me that if I've used MFW all these years, I should trust that they will have suggestions for different learners, will have a mix of easy and hard, and will have thought through all my concerns. He was correct, of course. I'll also add that I trust MFW programs to make it easy for me to educate my child well and prepare him for his future. I know those few advanced books pressed him forward to a higher level, prepared him for his future high school & college studies. And most of all, by the end of the year I knew that no one in college could tell my ds that the Old Testament was the same as any other mythology -- they aren't, and he knows it. He knows it in detail now. That was worth any pain and suffering with my non-reader in the challenge parts of AHL

Julie