Placement - Are High School Courses Grade Specific? Switch?

Sue G in PA
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:51 pm

Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by Sue G in PA » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:21 pm

And that would be my preferred order as well. However, ds14 hasn't had any American History except bits and pieces up until now and the rest of his 6 siblings are studying that time period next year. My options were: put him in AHL anyway even though he would be "left out", include him in with my youngers and the program we are doing with them and beef it up or have him try US1 and see how he does. I know this isn't the preferred sequence and wouldn't recommend it to other families. I trust MFW just isn't working out for OUR family and for this child. Lucy, do you think AHL and WHL are enough for 11th and 12th? That was another of my concerns. Thanks for chiming in again. :)


Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Jul 12, 2012 2:49 pm

I'm looking forward to hearing Lucy's answer.

I have some thoughts on the AHL in 11th, WHL in 12th.. will it be "enough" for older students...

Bible will be fine.

1. you'll expect more from those essays. I would be making sure there is a lot in the writing and no extensions on due dates.

2. WHL is "world literature" with a big emphasis on British Literature. Where I live... for some reason... you are "supposed" to have British Lit in English 12th grade.

3. Is the history "enough?" content... ok. It's going to be world history with world geography. it is high school level.

If the real question that isn't being asked is "will my upperclassman have too light of a schedule in 12th grade and seem to have slacked off"...... It will depend a lot on what the student is also doing those years. It's like asking a group fitness instructor... can I use that light/medium song on the front side or back side of the aerobic curve? WEll.... it depends on what else you are doing that day :) LOL. (guess who is struggling where to put a certain song today before next class?) giggle...

One crazy option to consider for this upcoming 9th grader with limited American history if you feel like starting 9th with AHL is better for long run? stick with me here...... you've done AHL.... remember how part of the English credit was to read something, anything... for X number of minutes each day? Couldn't he read the All American History book during that free reading time instead of free reading from "ancients" then he'd feel like he was in on that part of the family life and something to talk with older sib, or youngers... I don't know how long that book takes each day with younger crowd... but if that could be part of his "free reading from English time"? then the pressure is off for it being beefed up to high school.... or using US 1 too early and challenging the wrong ways..... he sounds motivated to do history with y'all....but it's just one course in the day, versus whole package?

it's just a crazy idea, I know... but..... I know my oldest daughter during AHL and WHL for that matter, did her free reading as "free reading" and not ancients. It wasn't even "academic" reading... either... We're talking a series of books that are in fantasy genre and non academic. ;)

I don't want to say it wouldn't work to do it out of sequence.... I'd just hate for the 14 y.o to miss skills in the program and foundations in the program, just over something like being connected via one history book. if he could read it and join in for a few minutes on things you do in the book with others... maybe that's the best of all worlds? I know my oldest still wandered out of her room to join us in stuff the last two years....while staying in the program she needed to be in.

Last edited by cbollin on Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sue G in PA
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Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 10:51 pm

Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by Sue G in PA » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:29 pm

Crystal, that is an idea. It wouldn't take much time for him to sit in on the weekly AAH reading and I could assign other American History type books for his "free reading" in addition to the AHL books and some key Ancient books I'd like him to read. That would give him a "basic" overview of American History (at least through 1850s) and I could even get a copy of AAH2 and have him read those chapters on his own. Hmmmm..... I'm pondering. Ponder, ponder, ponder... :-)


Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:46 pm

always glad to help with BPCD :-) 8[]



Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Jul 12, 2012 3:56 pm

Lucy Robertson wrote:(My daughter graduated this year! Yea!!!)
I shouldn't ... but I wanna... I know you're the moderator and all of that.. but but but... some things deserve a big out loud
Congratulations! insert party balloons here!

homeschooled the whole way through! and your family was one of those pilot families before you went to work there... and

happy dancing for you and your family!

oops..... giggle sorry for the hijack.. oops... giggle..



Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by MFW-Lucy » Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:35 pm


Older children can use previous years of of the high school with no problem , but as I mentioned yesterday it is much more difficult for a younger student to jump a head two years. It is not just about the history content. As I mentioned yesterday it is also about about the thinking skills that are developed over the 2 years before they reach US1. Thinking Like A Christian and all of the other material for Bible this year will be better suited for an older more mature child both in his growing critical thinking skills as well as his spiritual and emotional maturity. At this point (US1) the resources used for teaching writing during the first 2 years will be used as resources as for assignments write. There will not continue to be lots of writing instruction. The thought is that the last 2 years are now preparation for the next stage of education for those who will choose to move onto college. Just like there is preparation in 7th and 8th grade for high school independence, 9th and 10th grade are preparing for even more independence and practicing what has been learned in the last 2 years of high school. Because the high school program is independent study, using completely different books(and more in-depth) and Bible reading from the family cycle for grades 2-8, there are not any real advantages to having your high school student studying the same time period.

Just as Crystal suggested we do recommend some light reading of historical fiction and joining the family for nightly read-alouds is also another great option. Be careful not to add too much to your high school student's list of "to dos" as each credit is about an hour each day. I would not be concerned about any world history as he will catch that the following year and he will have a thorough study of American history in a couple of years.

As I said in my first post yesterday, in the end you will have to decide the best option for your family. The information above is only to help you as you think through the options for your family.


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Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by momxnine » Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:29 pm

All of my sons really love history, so I was telling them about this thread and asked what they would recommend from the things they've done over the years that would give someone a quick, fun overall review of Am. History. They both immediately said, "The history CD's." What they're talking about are these: ... c1578.aspx We've had them for years and my boys absolutely love them! The CD's are almost worn out because the boys will listen to them over and over and over. There is even a sale right now on the digital downloads, so they don't cost much at all. One of my sons also suggested the Landmark books. Those are harder to find, but they're really good. Both of these things are historical fiction, but the "real" parts are true facts and it's easy to tell what's truth and what the fiction parts are.

Hope that helps a little!
Vicki in SW MO.

Mom to 9, ages 10 - 31, Grammy to 4
Married 32 years, homeschooled for 25 years; 6 graduated, 3 to go

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Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by donutmom » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:35 am

Oh, I must say thank you, thank you, thank you to all who posted here. It has helped me tremendously. My oldest (going into 9th) hasn't had much in US history either. I would like him to have parts of the ancients this year, but also think about the US history. So I've been waffling--I, too, have BPCD! Well, my hubby would just say it's "perfectionism"--that I don't want to make any mistakes. I sure don't want to "screw up" the oldest!! That's a legitimate reason for BPCD, right?!

ANYWAY, reading this has been so helpful. Oldest loves the fact that he will have his own checklist and can get to his work and not have to wait for mom. He likes to get up and get right to what needs to be done (now, so you know don't go thinking "how lucky that lady is", know that the next kid in line is totally opposite of him! Opposite times 2 really!! Oh, God's sense of humor!!!). So he really doesn't care too much what he studies--just so he can go at it. It's me who cares. . . and wants to be not have any holes or make mistakes.

I had already thought of having him sit in when we do Exp-1850 readings, since it really doesn't take that long. And he needs a break somewhere in his day, right?! I mentioned it to him, and once I said he would NOT have to write summaries for those readings, he was cool with it! But I still was thinking that he wouldn't be reading the book basket books, etc. When I read what Crystal or someone mentioned regarding the using reading time to read US history--that really helped me in my decision. He'd be getting some details, which would make me happy, and be reading it for fun, which is more enjoyable for him (than having to do writing assignments, etc. for it).

So now it's settled in my mind. Thank you, Sue, for asking the same questions, and thank you to the rest who responded. So in this corner of PA, we're going to do the ancients next year! And I'm excited about it all now! No needing to adjust the curriculum down to his level, no worrying about what he was missing not doing the ancients (essay writing, etc.), not trying to figure out what blanks I need to fill in, so he could do work, . . . . . Yeah!!! I feel a big weight lifted off.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!! Any my hubby will thank you, too (he will be so glad to not have to listen to me go round and round anymore!!!! :-) )

Now what book/books should I have available for him to be reading during reading time. . . . . Oh, I can feel the BPCD rearing. . . %|



Re: Reverse order for high school? (US1/2 THEN AHL, WHL)

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:48 am

I wanted to mention this out loud...... My 13 y.o (just finished 7th grade) was able to read SOTW volume 4 over about 4 days this summer to herself. So for those who are worried that a child finishing 8th grade can't handle it in summer..... don't worry. She got "just enough" to skim and enjoy. and the funny thing is... we're doing 1850MOD with her in 8th... she just had time on her hands and wanted to read the book... and she really got into it and read it over a week or so. Is she an expert in history? no..... I would let the 9th grader read it on their own

just an opinion.


Julie in MN
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Location: Minnesota

MFW WHL before MFW AHL? ok to switch order?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sun Jul 29, 2012 2:20 pm

JOYFULFARMGIRL wrote:It looks like our family may need to change plans and do MFW WHL before AHL.

I have seen the earlier post by someone about switching 9th and 10th with 11th and 12th grade level programs and the moderator and several ladies had input. I still think this is a different question b/c we are seeking not as big of a jump, but just to do 10th grade level one year early.

What's more, this is what she is almost begging me to do...!
DD is excited about beginning 9th with WHL, and I know MFW schedules the Ancients for 9th and WHL FOR 10TH (yes I know Rome is included in that). Is there any problem with doing this out of order and either reversing AHL and WHL, or putting off AHL to an even later high school year?

She is a very bright and motivated learner. with strong comprehension and writing skills, if fact, she publishes her own history magazine. :)

Please share your thoughts!
It is consuming all of our time here! :~ !!

Thank you,
Aw, gotta feel for you when the decisions are consuming all your time there. There are just some times that are particularly agonizing, aren't there?

I guess you get that most of us will say "do AHL first," because it just works better that way. But if, for whatever reasons, you do decide to do WHL first, what to look out for? I'll start with just some random thoughts and see where they lead.

1. It will end up being more work for you to adapt a 10th grade program to a 9th grader, not only because you do less in 9th but because there are some "prerequisites" assumed. Some of us have time and energy to do adapting, and some don't. Starting with Marie's work will help a lot, so it's not like you're creating something from scratch. Just make sure you don't get sucked into giving up too much family time or marriage time on it.

2. It could end up more work when it comes time to give actual grades. Again, I am one who does adapt some things, so I know this first-hand. This year when I had to produce actual grades for a college app, and it was definitely more work to give grades for the things I'd adapted, but it wasn't as horrible as when I was creating grades for my older dd with no MFW guidance at all.

1. If you don't start with the beginning of the Bible (CTG or AHL), I might spend a day or two with my child going over the beginning of history. Just as a serious reminder that the whole reason the world is messed up is because of the beginning of history. The whole reason for the New Testament is in the Old Testament. And every Bible verse quoted by Jesus is from the Old Testament, of course, so you might stop and talk about that when it comes up, as a prep for making those connections when you get to AHL next year.

2. The Bible in AHL is pretty focused on going through the entire OT in chronological order, which is long but is pretty much a single track you are moving along. The Bible in WHL is much broader, taking in not only the NT but the history of the Christian church, so maybe a tiny bit more complex. I know I decided to read the church history book to my son because there is so much significant info in there that my particular son might totally miss. A 9th grader maybe even more so? Not that a high schooler has to understand every last bit, and just reading through the entire Bible as one book is indeed an important accomplishment.

1. The Notgrass portion of history is more textbook-ish in WHL, with more readings each week. The grade for history includes all the testing on those readings, so this is something new. The textook portion of AHL is a smaller supplement to the Biblical history of reading the OT, and the tests are just skipped and some short essays are used for grading, instead. (There are still questions to answer about each of the history readings in both years.) For a 9th grader who isn't used to tests, you could count the tests for less of the total grade, or have the student write summaries or essays instead? You could also just mentor her through the tests for a while, if she struggles at first. I was advised by other moms to really go over the questions from the history readings before the tests, as a sort of classroom test prep, and that did help at our house.

2. The timeline portion of WHL is about twice as much as AHL. I've heard of folks skipping it, I suppose, but it functioned at our house as a sort-of "review," since the student isn't doing a lot of paper-and-pencil review type things. It did help at our house to have the timeline figures already cut out and grouped together for each assignment, preferably the summer before. I imagine a younger high schooler could even place their timeline figures together with a parent or other kids, in some fashion.

3. The mapping portion of WHL is an extra 1/4 credit, so it's enough extra that it doesn't even fit in the history credit. I suppose you could skip the extra mapping credit portion for a 9th grader, but I think it does add to the understanding of history, by putting an emphasis on certain events.

4. In general, all of the above is just due to the fact that there is more history in WHL. Yes, AHL covers more years, but they are ancient years and less is known about them. What we know about the last 2,000 years dwarfs all the prior years in comparison. You might want to stick a little closer to your 9th grader and make sure she is following the general flow of history. I did this sometimes by opening the DK-type book and saying the title, and asking what he'd learned about that topic.

Literature & Composition
1. I've posted recently about the difference in literature depth in the 2 years by comparing Iliad and Animal Farm: ... 046#p89675
You will be at a great advantage if you have a reader, because she may be proceeding towards more depth in literature at a much faster pace than my son.

2. Composition in AHL "feels" big with learning the whole argumentative essay, and getting real grades for it. However, if you allow room for growth over the year, you'll find that it's really just a few headaches at the beginning and end of the year, and a break in the middle.

In contrast, composition in WHL is much broader. There are 8 weeks spent on an in-depth research paper, and then there is a different type of writing assignment about every-other-week, from writing a play to a speech to a letter to the editor. I tend to obsess on writing, so all of these involved much discussion and editing. I felt it helped to be past the basic headaches of bringing my student up to high school level - he knew what I expected in high school writing now, in terms of organization, having a focused thesis, etc. Otherwise I'd fear my student would produce elementary-school assignments in all of these. You may have a much different student on your hands, or a different focus at your house - I know each of my children has been a very different writer, even in the same family. If I were doing WHL with *my* 9th grade youngest child, I might sub out the research paper of WHL with the argumentative essay lessons in AHL, and then somehow do the reverse the next year (or just add in the research paper with the other assignments already in the next year because my student was ready for more), but you know your student best.

Well, do those wandering thoughts help at all?
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

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Re: MFW WHL before MFW AHL? ok to switch order?

Unread post by JOYFULFARMGIRL » Sun Jul 29, 2012 7:33 pm


Wonderful, wonderful thoughts here....
I am trying to get dinner going for everybody and farmchores, so I will try to send you an email when all is quiet on the western front.
Thank you!

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Thoughts on US to 1877....

Unread post by ilovemy4kids » Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:47 pm

Just thought I'd pop in and update how it's going. We finally got going. We are on week 2 of US to 1877 with both of our children now. We opted to combine them so our DD 14 is doing US to 1877 first instead of AHL. Her older brother has done AHL and WHL.

Well, on week two, we are so far, so good. Happy with the decision. Our DD is really enjoying the Literature and worldview. History...not her favorite subject.

We have gotten into a flow that works... History - we see what the days assignment is, read the section quiz questions first, then everyone reads on their own and answers the question and does the workbook if there is an assignment. Then we gather, I read extra notes from the BJU TM (purchased from BJU) about the section, we discuss their answers. It works. I do not like the Chapter Review and tests on the same day, so we are adjusting the schedule accordingly. They would rather do history on a Saturday so that the Chapter Review is the day before a test.

Literature - all together. We read it aloud and discuss some assignments orally, others they write out as instructed. Really enjoying the lit portion thus far.

Thinking like a Christian... Dad is teaching this. We decided to do Friday's as instructed, but do the Teaching Textbook portions on Saturday's instead of Monday. It just makes our day too long on Monday's. I have my own copy of the student journal and am doing the work too. We are doing the Student journals on our own, seperately without discussion.

All in all we are happy.

Our days are a bit long, but we have lots going on. IEW (writing in addition to MFW), cross country, football, American Heritage Girls, Boy Scouts, Honor Society, Online Science classes and Online French class. UGH! Can't wait for the fall sports to end.


Julie in MN
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Location: Minnesota

WHL for 9th grader?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sun Nov 03, 2013 12:48 pm

ElaineTX wrote:My ds studied Ancient history last year using Mystery of History Volume 1 in 8th grade. Is there any reason we shouldn't move straight to WHL with him for 9th? (Yes, this school year. What we have doesn't seem to be a good fit, and I've always had MFW in the back of my mind for high school.)
Hi Elaine,
I think she could do WHL, but here are some things I'd think thru first.

1. One advantage of doing AHL in your situation is that you could take out things she's already done and still end 9th grade at the usual time, whereas starting WHL might stretch her year out?

2. Is she solid in essay-writing? To me, AHL helps the student "grow up" from elementary writing to high school writing. WHL just has students write lots of things. The writing in WHL has instruction and such, but somehow I'd fear it could turn out to be elementary-level if the student hadn't been pushed out of her comfort zone and into high school level expectations during AHL?

3. Has she read the entire Old Testament? I know MOH "suggests" reading the real Bible along with the lessons, but many folks just read the lessons, which are retellings and of course shortened (the Old Testament is long!). Reading the entire Bible for himself at the "rhetoric" level was a main goal for my children.

4. How is she in Apologetics? AHL is a good year for 9th graders to explore what they're starting to hear and understand in the wider world, outside of their insular Christian homeschool world. I didn't want my son to be fearful if a college classmate told him that the Old Testament supernatural events were the same as those in Greek mythology, for instance. During AHL, he read them side-by-side, so he knows they are not the same. The Pharaohs book and the New Answers book and other materials add to this.

5. Is she a solid reader? My ds does NOT like to read, sadly. Therefore, the challenge of 3 or 4 difficult books in AHL helped him work toward the more extensive reading list in WHL and even tackling the early American language of our founders in US1.

6. I have also heard discussion about MFW high school reaping more spiritually when the maturity level is there. I mostly hear this discussion about trying to use MFW high school with 8th graders, but it could also apply to fairly young 9th graders.

I just like to think through everything before I make a decision :)
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:46 pm

Re: WHL for 9th grader?

Unread post by dhudson » Sun Nov 03, 2013 3:53 pm

Did they use MOH with something else to make it an appropriate level for high school?
God Bless,
blessed Mom of three - 16, 13 & 13
happy user of MFW since 2002

Julie in MN
Posts: 2915
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

US history to 1877

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:47 pm

godbless wrote:Hi, I have been researching US history for highschool. MFW looks great but I want it for 10th grade. I see it is strongly discouraged lower then 11th. I don't understand why. It really looks very doable for a 10th grader. Could someone please explain this to me? He really wants to do US history and he would do WHL in 12th. Did anyone do US history to 1877 in 10th with success? Thank you, Stacey
Hi Stacey,
Well, of course anything is possible. I haven't tried your particular plan, but I'm not in your family, either.

However, I'll just say why it would be tough from my perspective of having done those years at the usual ages.

1. Notgrass is the main history text in WHL, and it is a textbook with large print and plenty of white space, very unthreatening for those getting used to textbook learning. There are quizzes to get used to in WHL, but they are fairly short and at the end of the year, only 60% of the grade. The added materials in WHL are an extensive timeline and an extensive DK-type book giving details about living in the times (plus the geography credit, but that's really an extra).

The BJU textbook has small print, pages are very full, and it is written by a more heavy-duty textbook curriculum, labeled as an 11th grade textbook. The tests are more extensive and total 70% of the grade. The added materials in US1 are a very short timeline book and a more extensive amount of worksheet type activities to reinforce the textbook details.

2. The Bible in AHL/WHL takes the student through reading the entire Bible for himself, before heading into the Worldview study in 11th grade. I wouldn't necessarily say the worldview study is "more difficult," but just that it might bear more fruit after a student has taken in the entire Bible for himself and has begun to look at his own views on faith (rather than mom & pop views of younger years).

3. The English in US1 is very focused on early American documents, with many original sources and a certain amount of worldview examination. I wouldn't say the work is more difficult than WHL, but it's more intense maybe? Instead of reading a piece of world literature over a couple of weeks in WHL, the student will be reading through several documents and articles every day in US1.

I suppose your son could try it and if it got too difficult, he could save the US1 year for later? Or maybe you can find a way for him to look at samples of the two history textbooks to compare?

Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 11:51 am

Re: US history to 1877

Unread post by godbless » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:06 pm

Than you for explaining this and it does make sense to do it in order. I emailed MFW and their response was the same. I will continue to pray about it.

Julie in MN
Posts: 2915
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

US to 1877 for 9th grader?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu Apr 24, 2014 10:41 pm

JoyfulDancer wrote:I'm really struggling about what to do with my 9th grader for next year. We've used MFW since the beginning, but my oldest (10th this yr) and I just pieced things together for this year, which was hard for me not having a nicely planned out schedule from MFW to rely on. She will be taking dual enrollment at our community college next year.

My issue for next year is my rising 9th grader. She is even less of a reader than her sister, and I know she will be lost with AHL. My oldest will be taking US History I, my 7th will be doing Ex-1850 and our co-op High School group will be doing Early American History (considering BJU and Notgrass for the text). It would make so much more sense to me to have my 9th grader also do US1 for history. I see that MFW's is for 11th and 12th, which I understand, but can I work it for a 9th grader, or is it going to be too much? Maybe I should just get the Notgrass and use that apart from MFW. I know, this is the MFW message board, but I'd love some realistic feedback. Thanks!!!
Okay, so next year you'll have an 11th grader using MFW's 11th grade program, US1, and you're wondering if the 9th grader can join in? Plus the co-op might use BJU, which would match US1, did I get that right (assuming they'd use the BJU 11th grade text that MFW uses, rather than the BJU junior high text)?

Well, I'm one who believes anything is possible. But like you mentioned, it surely is nice having Marie hand us an already-planned-out-and-tested curriculum for our student's grade level.

Here is a comparison I tried to write about US1 vs. the 9-10th grade years: ... 500#p97500
I guess to summarize, I'd say:

1. The Bible in US1 isn't necessarily difficult for a 9th grader. I do think there would be more fruit after having read the entire Bible, as well as being a little older, but I don't think it would need adjustment, necessarily.

2. The history (1 semester) basically uses the BJU set. It's a full-on 11th grade textbook. Could she do it? Or would you be okay expecting less from her, such as maybe notebooking what she learned or something?

3. The government (1 semester) doesn't seem too hard for a 9th grader.

4. The English credit will have a lot more to absorb, in my opinion, than the 3 book studies (& 3 casually read books) in AHL, and she won't have the writing prep from AHL. But maybe she wouldn't get so lost if there were many short books and short essays rather than a few long ones?

I am not sure the whole picture of your students. Whatever you use, it's almost always a pain (in my opinion) to bring kids up to high school level (still working on that some days with my 12th grader), but it's nice as homeschoolers we can adapt here and there (we used audiobooks, reading aloud if able, subbing on occasion).

Hope that something in there is helpful,
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

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