Choosing homeschool vs. dual credit college courses

sewgirlie
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:31 pm

Re: Post Secondary Enrollment Options

Unread post by sewgirlie » Sun May 06, 2012 6:20 pm

Yes Julie, we're in MN. You and I are practically neighbors ;) !

My daughter and I are drooling over Northwestern's online (how cool is that? :-) ) PSEO.

We've only done ECC and will complete CTG and RTR before high school. Then she'll do Ancient History and
World History. These are the history and geography classes she can take for PSEO-

GEO1005 Introduction to Geography 4
GEO1015 World Geography 4
HIS1005 History of Western Civilization 4
HIS3115 Old Testament Archaeology 2
HIS3116 New Testament Archaeology 2
HIS3117 History of Ancient Israel 4
HIS3125 History of the Christian Church from Apostolic Times to the Present 4

Do you see the problem I'm having? On the bright side she'd know bible history very well... But she might not know how the US government works!

Does anyone have any ideas what to do?

cbollin

Re: Post Secondary Enrollment Options

Unread post by cbollin » Sun May 06, 2012 6:29 pm

hmm.. I'm remembering Lisa M had a quick chime in once
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 406#p80406

maybe something in there?

I know I don't have the 'free" option in our state like MN does... we can get grants for dual enrollment to reduce cost, but it's not free like y'all. (had to use that southern word on this thread). One of the things in my brain is to do non mfw style of courses (if we do any dual enrollment) instead of Bible or History stuff.

sewgirlie
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:31 pm

Re: Post Secondary Enrollment Options

Unread post by sewgirlie » Sun May 06, 2012 7:22 pm

Chystal- Yes, Lisa's post was very helpful, because her timing is very similar to ours.

We really would like to take advantage of as many free classes as possible. My dd doesn't plan (so far anyway...) of attending college other than this.

I wonder if there is anyway to do the 11th-12th grade content at a lower level?

Julie in MN
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Post Secondary Enrollment Options

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sun May 06, 2012 7:23 pm

I agree with the link Crystal gave, that there are more options than just the Social Studies ones you listed. I'm not sure what will be in place when your dd gets to 11th grade, but I know this year Northwestern still offers a couple of classes through Yeah Academy, too, and one of them is math.

There are also other colleges, including others that do online, as well as the nice option of going through Yeah, which is not online but all your student's classmates will be homeschoolers.

Even if you did just have those options that you listed, I think it's doable as an elective. My son has chosen to do math and electives through PSEO. So, you could drop the 1/4 geography credits in WHL and US2, and do the Northwestern geo course instead. The other courses, too, would not really be duplicates and would be great electives. The western civ might even reach modern history, and that would relate to US1 & US2 - there is always more to learn about our current times.

For now, I wouldn't panic. Enjoy the chance to read the entire Bible in AHL and WHL, and explore apologetics and the history of Christian denominations in your own home. Just make sure to leave room for electives in those last 2 years.

And yes, Crystal, I feel very blessed to have this taxpayer support of high school students in MN. Even the books are covered (although we may not be allowed to keep them). Apparently colleges are not paid as much, but are willing to fill empty slots (kind of like Priceline for airline seats).

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

sewgirlie
Posts: 17
Joined: Mon Jan 10, 2011 7:31 pm

Re: Post Secondary Enrollment Options

Unread post by sewgirlie » Sun May 06, 2012 7:54 pm

Thanks Julie and Crystal!

Yes, there are other options for classes (math, etc.). I was just looking at the history/geography portion.

I had this crazy thought that maybe we should do Ex-1850 and 1850-Mod the next 2 years, even though we've already purchased CTG :~ .

You're right, I probably shouldn't worry about it for a few years. Who knows what will be offered, if anything, by the time she gets there. I just really like to have a plan. Doesn't matter if we follow it (I'm relaxed that way), but I like to have one anyway :-) . Also by the time she gets there she could change her mind. I'm just scared we'll do something now that will block her later!
Julie in MN wrote:You know, if your dd is your youngest, it is possible to move forward in history next year, depending on what she has covered well in past years. Would that make a difference?
No, she's the oldest. That puts pressure on me because we'd like to use any resources we purchase 3 more times. But it also means I have 3 more tries to get it right :-) !

Julie in MN
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

dual enrollment

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Oct 30, 2012 7:14 pm

sandi wrote:What are your thoughts on this. Have any of your children done this while continuing to use mfw high school? I want him to be able to do the history and world view parts of mfw. Any thoughts on how you continued on while doing dual enrollment would be appreciated. Sorry, first high schooler. He is a junior working on WHL. He would enter dual enrollment in January. What are some of the classes they took. Sorry if this didnt' make sense. I'm in bed sick.ARGGGGHHH
Having alittle struggle concentrating. :~
Hi Sandi,
My son is an 11th grader and he's doing dual enrollment this semester. I hesitate to say a lot until the end of the semester, when the proof is in the pudding as they say, but I can tell you what's going on so far.

Reid has used MFW from 3rd grade and continues to use it now. He's also enrolled in precalculus (algebra 3?) and Latin 1 through Minnesota's PSEO this semester. Next semester he's signing up for precalculus (trig etc?) and psychology (we are applying for those this week already). He has an idea of going into medicine and made his choices based on that (the Latin wasn't my idea and scared me a lot!).

Minnesota has several advantages for 11th graders that made the difference for me. (1) First, it's free, and free is nice :) Even the textbooks are paid for, although you must return them. (Well, the taxpayer pays, but it's a low rate which the schools accept as space is available.) (2) Second, there is a somewhat "sheltered" program through a large homeschool co-op, where college profs come and teach classes of only homeschoolers. I imagine the reason they're willing to do this is because they are trying to get these students to attend their college once they graduate. Anyways, I wasn't sure about putting my 11th grader in a class of "adults," so this option was nice. Also, both of the colleges my son is enrolled through are Christian colleges (1 class through each). I am especially pleased with the Christian perspective that is offered in the psychology course he wants to take next.

He did have to visit one of the actual college campuses for a day of orientation and bookstore, so he got a little taste of a campus. It was a PSEO orientation for students in pubic and homeschool, whether their classes met on campus or not, so all students were talked to equally. They were told that they would not be treated any differently than older students.

In 12th grade, my son will have to go on-campus if he takes calculus, because it isn't offered by anyone off-campus. He is leaning towards continuing at a Christian college. There is a community college very near our house, but he says he may not be ready for secular schools :)

I looked into doing college courses online, too, but that seemed too isolating and too impersonal for my particular son. He actually does do almost all of his math course online, but I'm glad he has the professor there once a week to teach in person, as well as other students with the exact same assignments to motivate him.

I am pleased with my son's ability to rise to this level of work. He's asked both professors if they offer extra credit, and they have both told him that he doesn't need it, so that sounds like a good sign to me. I've also seen him go to class early to prep for a test, write out charts with a pencil which he rarely uses at home, and control his temper when he has to re-do a 3-hour math test because he ran out of time on the computer clock (they are allowed two chances on tests so far, with the second test being different than the first).

Time is the biggest difficulty. There is only so much time. My son is very social and is constantly involved in activities. And I consider rest and family to be very important for health. But starting in the spring with applications and into the summer with 3 orientations, time has been an issue. Some of the time issues we've wrestled with:

1. At the orientation, it seemed like a lot of the homeschooled kids were not doing a lot at home, or mostly do homeschool in January when college is on break. However, I am still expecting my son to do 4 other classes at home because we cannot drop Bible, English, History, or Science.

2. Some of the homeschoolers running the program encouraged me to allow one math course to suffice for the year of math, probably having him place in the higher math this semester and then stopping for the year. However, my son and I wanted him to start "college" in a comfortable place, rather than the highest course he tested into. We also want him to keep up with math all year because it's one of his strengths, and not take a whole semester off. And finally, his current math course is only 3 college credits, and I've decided not to give a full high school year's credit for college classes that are less than 4 credits (I'm giving 0.25 high school credit per 1 college credit), which is a personal decision I had to make.

3. I know from my older son's experience in public school, he didn't get to drop other subjects just because he was dual enrolled. However, sometimes by 12th grade, public schooled students aren't taking math or electives or sometimes other subject areas aren't specifically required to be taken all 4 years. So that will be something to look at when my son gets to 12th grade.

4. Applications are due EARLY. Sometimes you have to make decisions way before you really know how your student is doing or what your student is ready for. 1st semester apps were due starting in April, 2nd semester starting November 1st. Applications required quite a bit of mom-work at our house. For instance, I had to have the transcript fully graded, had to make sure he took the test required for admission, and had to find 2 non-family members to vouch for my son's academic abilities.

5. Here is the time that is "taken away" from our important homeschool subjects this semester, and you'll see it's a big chunk almost every day.
a. 2 hours of math class on Mondays, then a 2.5 hour gap where it's hard to come home, then 2 hours of Latin class.
b. Large Latin assignment due before class on Thursday (assignments are clocked and may not be 1 minute late, for any class). This is 4 credits - we're talking 2 chapters of Wheelock's Latin plus translations of like 20 sentences, every week.
c. Latin class for 2 hours on Thursday.
d. Large math assignment due on Friday by 6 p.m.
e. Other assignments and math tests may be due at other random times, even on Sundays (which could be done early, but of course I've never seen my son do anything early).


So as you see, I don't make these decisions lightly. In the end, at my house I'm glad my particular son is taking up this challenge. He has 2 men teachers whom he respects and obeys. However, I still don't want to let go of the important MFW courses that will build his character in meaningful ways, keep him in the Bible daily, teach important concepts in History and Government from my family's worldview, and work seriously on his ability to communicate his worldview in English. My particular background is that my oldest son was never homeschooled and he turned out to be a fine young man, but I treasure the chance to homeschool my younger 2 through high school, and even good Christian professors and passionate homeschool organizers are not the folks I really want to be in charge of my son's education while he is still "mine."

Wow, sorry so long.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: dual enrollment

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Oct 30, 2012 9:16 pm

loved reading Julie's thought process. thanks Julie :)

agreeing to disagree on something though.... 3 credits in a college with semester is typically perceived as one year high school credit. It may vary if the university is on quarter system. and other local policies may differ or go into the decision.
Here's the hslda faq on that......
http://www.hslda.org/highschool/academi ... enrollment

again... if they are on quarter system at the college.... it may vary. :)

-crystal
Last edited by cbollin on Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sandi
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:35 pm

Re: dual enrollment

Unread post by sandi » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:28 pm

Thanks so much to both of you for your thoughts on this. I was considering having him do english comp. for a high school and college credit.This means he would not do the mfw english part of the high school. I am not really certain how I feel about this. The main reason that I was considering dual enrollment is that his Chemistry arrived in the mail and I realized I can't teach this nor do I have the time to go through the book and relearn this stuff. I am working with a ninth grader in AHL and a 6th grader in ECC. The 6th grader is dyslexic and is very behind due to this. She is a very bright child just cant do school very well. Crystal, I know that you deal with a student that needs extra help. It requires alot of my time. The ninth grader is an average student and requires help in her subjects a pretty good bit too. She does have alot of drive and for that I am thankful. I also have a four year old in the mix. It has just gotten a bit overwhelming doing three different levels. I am not complaining here I know that I am called to do this, its just not very doable right now. Everyone needs me at the same time. My ninth grader is struggling with Physical science too. I thought well, maybe I should get the bju science dvds for chemistry and physcial science and that would help take some of the load off. But, that is 400 whoppers a class! I mean really, who can afford that? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. I am needing to do something soon. I don't want to fall any farther behind in science or anything else. Thanks for listening to all this confusion.
His Child,
Sandi

Julie in MN
Posts: 2929
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: dual enrollment

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Oct 31, 2012 12:34 pm

Sandi,
If you're using Apologia, then an answer to prayer for us was the (free) Virtual Homeschool Group online. Tammy on there is so very generous with her time, so easily accessible, and so knowledgeable about teaching high school science. Your student still needs to read the text and do the labs, but there is a bit of camaraderie with doing the class time together with others, especially when the test preps are games. At least that's how the Biology was set up.
HTH,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

8shininglights
Posts: 18
Joined: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:48 am
Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: dual enrollment

Unread post by 8shininglights » Wed Oct 31, 2012 7:26 pm

I, too, have done some dual enrollment with my daughter (grade 12 currently) in two different ways.

We had been living overseas, so last year, my daughter took two classes through Bryan. Those two classes (Psychology and Christian Worldview...I wanted her to take these while she was still at home, so we could talk about them) went very well. She did continue with History of Western Civilization in the summer, and that was a mistake. We ended up withdrawing because we were in the midst of a move to the US, and the teacher was not communicating well. My daughter had gone from A's in the first two classes to failing the first test! I know that part of it was our move, and part of it was the speed at what the class was going (the summer classes are accelerated to finish in 1/2 time). The first two classes that she took had some lectures that you watched on line. She found that very helpful. The history class was completely independent, and the teacher was not answering her emails and explaining "why" she received a particular grade on a paper/quiz, or what she needed to differently. She did not have guidance on what she was doing wrong. I did complain because I feel that having some interaction is necessary when doing an on-line class (meaning...just to know why she was graded a certain way on a paper and what needed to change). It was not as if she had not had "independent" work before. She did Apologia, Saxon, MFW high school, etc. COMPLETELY on her own and achieved A's. Well...anyways...

We have moved to MN for my husband to attend Bible school before we had back overseas. So, my daughter has been able to participate in the PSEO program that Julie referred to. I have been amazed at such a program!!!!! The cost I spent at Bryan vs. this program....well...amazing there aren't any fees for classes or books!!! She is actually taking 14 credit hours and doing fantastic! I think it has been a great way to prepare a student for college. She is learning to manage her time while living at home. Like Julie said, she had to go to the orientation day and learned that the teachers don't know that the students are PSEO (high school), so they are treated like everyone else. Well, she has seen how other college students do not take deadlines and assignments seriously! She has been blown away by their flippancy (especially when you think that those college students DID pay A LOT of money for their courses!!). So, we have been able to talk through these issues at home and help her to manage her time, time away from home, and "doing" college. I think it has been a great opportunity to have as a stepping stone to college. She is currently doing well in all of these classes!!

I do think it would vary from child to child on how much you have them do. You know your child on what they need help with, how they manage their time, how they do academically, and how they would cope with multiple deadlines (not coordinated by a curriculum). Each child is different on how they would cope....would this help them to thrive, or would this weigh heavy on them? If this could be difficult, it might be good to just do one class and then increase as time goes on so that when they do start college, they are ready!! Of course, you also have to keep in mind what credits they still need to fulfill high school requirements. I have a daugther that could begin next year (grade 11), but I know that we would take it slower with just one class to begin with because she has different strengths/weaknesses.

I also believe that "attending" a class is better than on line. My daughter cannot believe the difference from her two experiences!!!

Well, that was a lot longer than I had anticipated!!!

Lisa
Wife to my BEST Friend, Roger, for 22 years!
Blessed Mother of Victoria (20), David (19), Anna (16), Elisabeth (14), Rebecca (12), and Daniel (8)!!!!

sandi
Posts: 38
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:35 pm

Re: dual enrollment

Unread post by sandi » Wed Oct 31, 2012 8:25 pm

Thanks everyone for your help.
THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS THANKS for the Virtual homeschool group site. I am so very thankful to use this. I think this is just the help we have been needing for science. I can't believe this is free. That is alot better than paying a whopping 4oo a class!

We will continue to pray about the dual enrollment. I am thinking maybe a yes for Eng. Comp.
His Child,
Sandi

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest