Singapore 1B, Specific Lessons

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cbollin

Singapore 1B, Specific Lessons

Unread post by cbollin » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:45 pm

schelean wrote:My dd is about 1/4 of the way through 1B. She has 2 more workbook pages to complete before we move on to the section of Adding Three Numbers.

She is needing more practice with beginning of addition/subtraction with regrouping. She does understand the concept pretty well (not great) using manipulatives and is struggling more with the abstract (problems with no pictures) workbook pages. Should we spend some more time on the addition/subtraction with regrouping before moving into adding 3 numbers with multiplication/division to quickly follow?

I always learn so much from the board. I appreciate everyone's 2 cents. :)
She's in ADV , so I assume she's 2nd grade age.

For problems without pictures, either build the problem with some kind of manipulatives, or draw your own pictures and walk and talk through the problem together.

I don't think you have to have the regrouping completely there just yet in order to move along. Sometimes it helps when a child gets a break from something hard to work on something new.

don't work with the expectation that she has to do the regrouping mentally. Use blocks, and walk and talk her through the problems to really help her do them the right way.

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: Singapore 1B

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:38 pm

I can't comment on this particular skill, since I didn't teach Singapore at that level.

However, in general, my son did not always get concepts right away in the elementary years. What to do in that case? I don't think you can go wrong either way. Just go with your mother's intuition.

- Sometimes I decided to wait it out & spend some time in an area without moving ahead. We'd do a lot of games, do one hard problem, use something else I had around the house, etc.

- Sometimes I decided to just move on. Math has built-in review because one skill is needed in order to perform another skill. Singapore also has built-in variety. Sometimes we'd go to the measuring & fun (concrete) stuff, and come back to the abstract later.

My ds has made it all the way to 7th grade with my random approach :-)
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lyntley
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Re: Singapore 1B

Unread post by lyntley » Sun Mar 01, 2009 8:28 am

We're in the same place in 1B, having those same issues. I've been thinking We'll just continue on. As another poster mentioned, I think we need a break from it. And it seems there is a bit of overlap and continued review in the books to follow. I think my older DD had these same issues a few years back and has come along just fine.
Lynnette: Wife and Mother by the will of God.
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Singapore Math - Turns out to be Singapore 1B, Unit 8

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Jun 29, 2009 9:41 pm

ddwoods wrote:We used Singapore 1A and 1B last year and my poor daughter has started to freeze up everytime I even mention math. She could do the work, but she got frustrated. For a child to go from loving math to dreading it was quite a sign for me that something was not clicking. She grasped the concepts, etc., but just did not look forward to her math time at all.

Before we started Singapore she was eager to start. The math she used before was the MFW suggested, "The Complete Book of Math," for Grades 1 & 2. She loved it and had no problems. The MFW staff told me that she wasn't supposed to start Singapore until the 2nd grade so that is what we did. We also did the placement testing that they suggest.

darlene
Hi Darlene,
I'm sure you know all the usual suspects for math curriculum -- Math U See, ABeka, BJU, RightStart, Horizons, the list goes on... probably 50 different choices, whew! Are you asking which one worked well with MFW? I know there are folks using MFW with almost every math program out there and succeeding. Just be cautious about time commitment & high standards, that's all.

Or, are you asking which worked well with a child like yours? If so, I think it would be helpful to know more about your child & where she froze up. Surely she must have had some areas that went okay? How about the measuring in the B book, did she enjoy pouring water & such? Did she like measuring -- and did you let her get out a tape measure & try it herself? I haven't actually done Singapore 1A/B, but I'm figuring it's similar to level 2, which we started at? Lots of concrete mixed in with the abstract stuff. In fact, sometimes I'd go back & forth between the A & B books just to have lots of concrete mixed in.

Did you dd freeze up with the more abstract problem solving, rather than the more concrete measuring & such? That, I would think, is fairly normal at her age, no matter which program you are using. In fact, throughout their math "careers," there are going to be bumps now & again, when kids need to sit a while in a concept & let it sink in, especially when it's a "thinking problem." I would often use math games, stop to work on math facts, or even add a second math program in order to just stay in the same place for a while. But several weeks later he'd ask to go back to Singapore :o) These extras aren't needed by any means, but this is just to say that stopping a while didn't put ds behind, but just gave him a solid base. He's still ready for algebra in 8th grade.

Best wishes as you sort this one out,
Julie
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ddwoods
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Re: Singapore Math

Unread post by ddwoods » Mon Jun 29, 2009 10:30 pm

Julie,
Thanks so much for your response. To be quite honest I will have to get the books out and really study where she got frustrated at. Like I said, she can do the work, but didn't enjoy it as much as she had before. I like your idea of slowing down in the area she bogs in. Maybe that is what went wrong. I was such a stickler to finishing everything on schedule. That is probably the most likely culprit! Goodness, it was probably me pushing her too hard to finish on time vs. getting the concept down. It even says in the book not to go on unless that area was accomplished.

I have heard of mothers getting upset and it reflecting on their children's studies. I hope I didn't do that. I think I will pull the books out again and go over some things with her. That way I may be able to see where the problem is rooted. Wow. It's amazing how you uncover things when you write!

Pray it wasn't me, but hope it was me instead of her. Does that make sense?
Darlene, wife of Jack, mother of KJ (8) and BJ (28) as of 6-2009
Grade 1-My Father's World
Grade 2-Adventures in My Father's World
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Loving the life the Lord has given me.

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Re: Singapore Math

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:00 am

ddwoods wrote:Wow, I can see where KJ got frustrated now. It was the last few pages of 1B in Unit 8. It's Addition Within 100 and Subtraction Within 100. Like for the problem 54+3= they break the 54 down as 54 = 50+4 and so on. I've got the book back out. I'm going to do a review with her tomorrow and see where things stand.
If you find that she's not ready to face it again, then I'd back off. Find a fun section of the book & ask if she'd like to do that again, instead. Or play math games. Sometimes I'd do "one hard problem" a day, and sometimes I would do zero for a while. Even if we skipped a few of the hardest ones, Singapore would cycle back to the topic or build on it later, and it seemed to turn out okay. I also remember in levels 2 & 3 that there was sometimes an "extra challenging" problem. I didn't feel like that happened in levels 5 & 6.

At some point, she'll look at those problems & say they're easy, but that point may not be tomorrow! Good luck!
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
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ddwoods
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Re: Singapore Math

Unread post by ddwoods » Tue Jun 30, 2009 10:11 am

I agree that I need to back off if she gets frustrated and all. I will tread carefully and prayerfully. With God's direction we will prevail. I believe that. He loves her even more than I do.

God Bless Ya'll!
Darlene, wife of Jack, mother of KJ (8) and BJ (28) as of 6-2009
Grade 1-My Father's World
Grade 2-Adventures in My Father's World
Grade 3-Exploring Countries and Cultures-currently studying

Loving the life the Lord has given me.

Julie in MN
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math singapore 1b

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:10 am

karlafoisy wrote:We began math three weeks ago. All three of my 2nd graders tested into 1B. They are coming to the right ANSWERS, but the WAY they get there is not how Singapore authors want me to teach them.

For instance, it seems, from the pictures in the textbook, that when you look at 17 + 6, you should think, "10+7 is 17, so 7+6=13, and 10 +13=23. Does that makes sense? Instead of just counting up 6 from 17, they have them doing these advanced mathematical miracles in their heads, and I feel like that makes it so much more difficult. Also, with a problem like 8 + 4, the kids should be able to look at that, take note that 8+2 is 10, and then just add the remaining 2 to get to 12.

Maybe that would benefit them later on, but right now, I am having a really difficult time knowing how to explain these concepts to them. That is the most frustrating part of the textbook: It is just pictures, but does not "dictate" how we should explain it clearly to our kids. Any thoughts?
My attitude with Singapore was to teach the methods, and especially to make my child aware that there were different ways to approach a problem. Then when he did the workbook, I allowed him to use whatever method he preferred. Some of the Singapore methods aren't really "needed" in the early books, but they "will" be needed to solve some of the problems in later books, so at least having introduced them clearly beforehand will be a help.

Julie
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Cyndi (AZ)
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Re: math singapore 1b

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:45 am

I got out the cuisiannaire rods and used the singles (whites) and the tens (oranges). Counted out 8 ones and 6 ones, then took 2 ones over to the row of 8, showing that it was now the size of the 10, and there were 4 left. 10+4=14, so 8+6=14.

For 17+6, I would get out a ten with 7 ones right beside it, then 6 ones. Take 3 of the ones over to the other ones to make it the same size as the ten, and there were 3 ones left over. 10+10+3=23, so 17+6=23.

I don't know if that's very clear in words without showing it in blocks . . . it all seemed new and weird to me, but that's the way my dd does math in her head now.
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cbollin

Re: math singapore 1b

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Sep 10, 2011 6:16 am

not too much different from what Julie and Cyndi has said.

*the student doesn't have to do it one specific way.
*the thinking in 10's is all about foundation work not a "you must do it this way or else!" kind of thing

Use real objects (blocks are great).
Go back and re-read about the thought bubbles and how they play into the script a bit for the student. It is a minimal script to help give your students what to think about and what to say while using real objects to manipulate to see the answer. too much info and it goes over their heads and fools like me over teach.

I was glad to start with 1A with my middle gal to pick up those little "singapore way" things. It is a lot to toss at them to use commutative and associative properties along with the number bonds they are supposed to already know in 1B. But learning to "jump by groups of 10's" will really pay off down the road. I know with my middle gal it took several years before that process was in her head.

I'm thumbing through 1B trying to find about where you are? (what page in the text?) I'm looking at p. 37 of 1B textbook. Part of the idea with those is that you would actually build those necklaces (or use base ten blocks if you prefer) and have your child physically move the items together while talking out loud.

Example: p. 37, 1B, textbook problem 5A. 25 + 6
Build two groups of tens like shown and next to it build one loose nit group of 5
get ready to add a group of 6.
have child lift 5 of those 6 to place with the 25... now you have a 3rd group of 10 and one left over...
child can see 31

Don't get mislead into "mental math" meaning you do it all in your head. No no no no... That's not what Singapore is about. Mental Math in Singapore starts with the concrete - building those problems with real objects. Then, you move toward the "mental thought process". They also see the pictures, then you move to the abstract later as they are ready.

So, it's not all done in their heads at this stage. Singapore uses concrete at this stage. It is about building a mental process for math so that eventually doing a problem like 82-6 is something they can begin to picture in their head as 70 + (12-6).

But it takes some time to build that picture. To do that... build the picture from the book, move objects around. have student actually do the talking and touching and seeing.

ps... think of the singapore text book the way a lot of Lego instruction books are... picture based instructions.

-crystal

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Re: math singapore 1b

Unread post by Ruby » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:05 pm

my son did not want to learn another way of doing the problem. he would just take out his handy-dandy hundreds chart and figure out the answer himself.
do you have the home instructor's guide? it's invaluable for teaching the methods. it gives you instruction on how to teach the lesson and most times games or activities to reinforce understanding. i am a complete math doofus but that book made it so we didn't even need to use the textbook. i know it's expensive but if you're having a hard time, it may be worth the expense.
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the "mental math" aspect of singapore the optional worksheet masters in the back of the H.I.G. to help them memorize basic addition and subtraction? doesn't the pictoral and manipulatives stage taper off at the fourth level?

karlafoisy
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Re: math singapore 1b

Unread post by karlafoisy » Wed Sep 14, 2011 10:19 pm

hi ruby,
what is the home instructor's guide? do you mean the small booklet that came with the MFW math curriculum? I have that, but so far I thought it was just telling me the answers to the kids' math workbook problems. I also have the Singapore textbook. Are you talking about that?

Julie in MN
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Re: math singapore 1b

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Sep 14, 2011 11:41 pm

karlafoisy wrote:hi Ruby, what is the home instructor's guide? do you mean the small booklet that came with the MFW math curriculum?
Karla,
Home Instructor Guides are sort-of like teacher guides. The author, Jennifer Hoerst, put a lot of helps in them. She now helps answer questions on the Singapore Math website. But don't forget that folks around here like to answer questions, too, if you need help. Cheaper than buying two extra guides per year :)
Ruby wrote:do you have the home instructor's guide? it's invaluable for teaching the methods. it gives you instruction on how to teach the lesson and most times games or activities to reinforce understanding. i am a complete math doofus but that book made it so we didn't even need to use the textbook. i know it's expensive but if you're having a hard time, it may be worth the expense.
correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't the "mental math" aspect of singapore the optional worksheet masters in the back of the H.I.G. to help them memorize basic addition and subtraction? doesn't the pictoral and manipulatives stage taper off at the fourth level?
Ruby,
I always cringe when someone says they can skip the textbook. Yes, your child can do the workbook without doing the textbook at the early levels. However, they will be missing the things taught in the textbook, such as the fact that one problem can be done in many different ways. The workbook can be done in whatever way your child prefers, but eventually at the higher levels, the child will find that some of the other ways he has seen will work better and far easier. So having introduced those ideas earlier will pay off. Anyways, it's possible the HIG makes up for that somewhat, but I still think it's worth considering using the Singapore textbook for teaching Singapore.

And about the mental math, I've actually never totally known what that means, but my idea is that, yes, it has to do with knowing those math facts inside & out. But math facts are really done separately from Singapore. Mental math, I've always thought, has more to do with doing problems "horizontally" rather than "vertically." And the reason Singapore students can do that because they really *get* what they are doing with the problem and can see where they are going and do a lot of it in their head. So they don't need to write out vertically:
35
-8
but instead can figure it out horizontally
35-8
because they get that the 3 tens and 5 ones will have to shift over to 2 tens and 15 ones, then removing the 8. They don't have to follow any procedures with crossing off and writing numbers above, because they just get it. That's what I've thought, anyways. Wonder if anyone else has come to a different conclusion?
Ruby wrote:let me explain a little on my earlier post....
i have used the Home Instructor Guide, the textbook and the workbook with my 7yo DS since we started. since i didn't get the booklet that comes from MFW, i do not know what is in it or how it's set up. my experience is only with the HIG, text and work books themselves.
the guide itself explains the guide as the parents resource for teaching the concrete introduction to the lesson that is applied through the textbook which in turn, is practiced through the exercises in the workbook. the guide also gives ideas of how to present the concrete introduction using manipulatives to help the child see the mathematical concept being taught. as with any kind of learning, what tools you use to teach will vary. my son is able to catch on quick to the concepts but he has his own methods of understanding and applying the concepts. he gets it. so now in this family there's my way, my husband's way and my son's way of applying the concept. anyway, i really like that the guide explains the work to be done in the textbook, and for the help it gives us, i don't mind spending the extra $35 for the year.
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gratitude
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Re: math singapore 1b

Unread post by gratitude » Thu Sep 15, 2011 12:19 am

The reason I choose Singapore, before I found MFW, is for the 'mental math' and more 'advanced mathematical thinking' that showed up on the pre-tests for the very early levels. I wish I could explain that better, but I could see where they were coming from having studied 'advanced math' for my major in college. I could see what they were trying to drive home for later use.

Like the others said I would focus in 1B on introducing the concepts and then allow them to figure out the problems. Use the concrete objects as much or as little as needed (this so so depends on the student; some think abstractly much earlier or much later than others).

Also I find when I read some of the textbook that whoever wrote it drives towards a slightly different way to do 'mental math' than I, or my ds, do it naturally. But it is the same idea. I would never think of 8 + 6 as being 10 + 4. But for mental math above 70 and through the 100's, 200's, etc... etc.. etc.. I use that basic concept idea all the time. A little differently, since my natural use of numbers approaches the problems slightly different than the author; but the basic idea. I just tend to come at it from almost an opposite angel than the person that wrote Singapore, more up than down; still though based on some idea of knowing 5's and 10's so well that it allows very large numbers to be added and subtracted easily in ones head horizontally...rather than vertically... with a visual of the numbers. It might surprise you to realize how much this comes to use in day to day life; yet hardly needed for survival or faith or reading or any of the other very important things we need in life.

So in summary I am saying teach the basic concept and then your child will come to figure out their way of doing numbers, and it will be fine. The Singapore method though will help them have a grasp of mental math and numbers and how people who love numbers think about them.

I hope this was helpful, and not confusing.

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Singapore 1B: multiplication - exercises 35 +

Unread post by Poohbee » Mon Jan 13, 2014 3:17 pm

Yodergoat wrote:We've reached the point in Singapore 1B which introduces multiplication, and my daughter seems to be grasping it well, thankfully. She did Exercise 35 today. I see that there is an exercise 36 covering multiplication, then a lengthy review section, then... DIVISION! I'm afraid her eyes will glaze over at another new concept being introduced so quickly.

I don't have the MFW lesson plans because I ordered from another company. I did this because I had free credit there, now I wish I had not... I don't know what pacing we should have as we go through this section. Should we camp out a bit longer on multiplication? Practice some facts, maybe? Get her feeling confident with it before going on to division? She can do the multiplication, and totally grasps the concept, but is still a bit slow at it as she really has to think about each one.

I remember how beneficial it was for us to practice addition and subtraction facts to make those more automatic, and that helped so much in the more complicated addition and such. I feel like I should camp out and do the same with multiplication...

Any suggestions? Thanks!
Hi Shawna!
In 1B, it is just the idea and concepts of multiplication that are being introduced...that multiplication is adding equal groups and division is sharing equal groups. Your dd does not need to know or memorize any multiplication facts right now. In 2A, your dd will start to memorize and really learn the multiplication tables of 2 and 3. So, do not worry about knowing any multiplication or division facts right now. The point is for her to start to understand the idea behind multiplication and division.

For pacing, I just go with the pacing in the Singapore text. When the blue arrow appears that says it is time to do an exercise in the workbook, that is when we stop and do the workbook. Sometimes it seems that you only do a few problems in the text and maybe 1 page in the workbook. That is okay. At other times, you do a few pages in the text and they schedule several exercises. In that case, I often break that down and just do one exercise each day. Really, you can determine the pace based on how well your dd is grasping the material.

Since it is just the concepts of multiplication and division that are being introduced right now, I don't think you need to camp out there unless your dd is just not getting it. If she seems to be getting it, just keep moving forward. It seems like a really quick jump into division, but truly, division flows pretty naturally from multiplication. And, your dd will probably grasp division quite well. Think of how often we have to share things equally, whether it be pieces of candy or game pieces, in real life. So, division isn't much of a stretch for young kids. :-)

I'd say, to quote Dory the fish, "just keep swimming." :-)
Jen
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blessed by MFW since 2006
have used every year K-1850MOD
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Yodergoat
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Re: Singapore 1B: multiplication

Unread post by Yodergoat » Mon Jan 13, 2014 4:39 pm

Phew! I'm glad to hear that it is just the concept of multiplication and division being taught. What a relief to know that she doesn't have to know facts yet, but just grasp the idea of it. She gets it, so I guess we will move on to the division as it says in the book. I see they are linked, but I just didn't want to leap forward into it if she was supposed to be really delving deeper into multiplication right now.

I don't know the scope and sequence of the Singapore books (such as what's in 2A and so on), but I was already thinking, "Surely this can't be all they have for multiplication?"

I guess it's the same idea as doing American History in Adventures, and just being lightly introduced to the topics... and then studying them more in depth later in the cycle.

Thanks for the clarification!
I'm Shawna...
... a forgiven child of God since 1994 (age 16)
... happily wed to William since 1996
... mother of our long-awaited Gail (3/15/2006)
... missing 6 little ones (4 miscarriages, 2 ectopics)
... starting Rome to the Reformation this fall!

Julie in MN
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Re: Singapore 1B: multiplication

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Jan 14, 2014 5:04 pm

I think that's a good comparison - Adventures vs. later US History.

The other thing I think is going on is that Singapore wants to put in kids minds that multiplication/division aren't "something different" than adding/subtracting. As I explained to my 1st grade grandson last week, "timeses" are are just "fast pluses." So 3x12 is just 12+12+12. I thought it was good he made that connection now while he is solidifying addition, so in future years when he starts doing "multiplication problems," hopefully he'll just dive into a tool that makes things faster, rather than feeling like he's arrived on a new planet.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Julie in MN
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Little mistake in Singapore Daily Lesson Plans

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Nov 16, 2015 10:43 am

klewfor3 wrote:Just to let you know, we just finished Day 42 for book 1B. Workbook pages 124-125 were assigned. Workbook page 124 was already assigned on Day 41. ;)
Hi Kathy,
I contacted Lucy at the office to make sure she saw this. Lucy says it will be updated in the next printing and she wanted me to pass on her appreciation!
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

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