Singapore - How is it different?

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Lucy
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Singapore - How is it different?

Unread post by Lucy »

Daisy wrote:Well, I honestly thought my DD would be able to do the Singapore 1B placement test. So that is what I gave her. I didn't grade it in front of her and I just let her do it when she felt like doing it. What BLEW my mind was that she had a melt down and told me she couldn't do the problems like this....

30-8=

She couldn't comprehend that they were just turned on their side! Our current math program presents problems the exact same way everyday, day in and day out. Because their point is memorizing the facts.

But I realize they haven't taught her to really "engage" her brain. She should have been able to do the above problem in her head. She would have been able to do if it had been written vertically. THAT is what worries me. That maybe I need to supplement with some kind of different math just so that she gets a greater variety of "types" of problems. Does that make sense? She has the knowledge but she wants to be told EXACTLY what they want from her and wants it to be predictable. Which of course is her very personality. :)
I have found that Singapore is teaching my kids to think about math and to think outside the box. Sometimes they do a problem and they think they have done it correctly but when I ask them to reread the problem and to really focus on the question being asked then I get the, "Oh, I see". I was also surprised at some of the problems my kids could not do. I realized some of it was just learning to "see" it differently.

I do not know very much about the younger levels since we started when my kids were older, but I have been pleased with the results of math thinking. In other words being able to apply what they have learned to a new problem. They still need help seeing those hard problems sometimes but this is teaching them to think through problems.

Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.
Julie in MN
Posts: 2909
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Falling behind?

Unread post by Julie in MN »

dascott wrote:I looked at the placement tests for Singapore and it really bothered me that we haven't touched on some of the things on the test 2B and just now have started with multiplication, no division yet. My daughter will be in 4th grade next year. She is very good in math and I feel she may be falling behind because we haven't learned a lot of the things on the test for level 2.
Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:08 am

Hi Dedra,
Lots of worries here. I think the main thing you need to hear is "don't worry"!

Your daughter may not be behind American students at all. Singapore would more be a measure of how she rates compared to world math students, who are sometimes ahead of the USA.

Also, Singapore school levels are not the same as USA school levels. My son works one level below his grade level in Singapore, and still tests very well on our required yearly standardized tests. I have chosen to spend any extra time on math facts rather than pushing ahead in Singapore.
dascott wrote:I haven't given her the test because she tends to get really stressed out if she hasn't gone over something and therefore doesn't know it.
If you have spent a year doing math with your child, you may not need to have her do the test because, as you say, you may know exactly where she would score. The Singapore placement tests are huge & if you can avoid them, I would (just my personal opinion & probably many would disagree!).
dascott wrote:I have been happy with our program, but she knows most everything we have done this year.
It's not unusual to do a lot of review in math each year. You may not notice it, but your child may still be advancing in those skills that she already was introduced to.
dascott wrote:Being a first year homeschooler, I didn't skip over whole lessons until recently. Looking back I should have done this all along and we could have gotten into some new concepts this year. So I am not sure what to do at this point.
I'm glad you've learned that skill. When we started Singapore at a lower level, we did skip a few sections such as money. However, I think in most cases it is worthwhile to just skim over Singapore sections & see the Singapore way of approaching problems from different angles.

You are doing fine!
Julie
cbollin

Why?

Unread post by cbollin »

doubleportion wrote:Could someone explain to me why my daughter needs to know that for example 8+6 is 10+4 rather than just learning 8+6 =14? I memorized those math facts and it feels like an unnecessary extra step to call it 10+4 rather than 14. Can someone explain to me the reasoning behind this?

Thanks
Edie
Both things are important (as far as I teach it with my kids.) So, yes, they need to learn 8+6 = 14. It is a commonly taught math trick (in several math programs, MFW 1st grade, MUS, Singapore, etc.) with adding by 8's to do it the other way to think about the problem a bit. It is easier to think in groups of 10's in our system.

Same thing with adding by 9's with that trick. 9+7 = 10+6.

It comes into play later when you have more than 2 numbers to add in a column and you can shuffle the order of those numbers around to add quicker.

-crystal
apayne
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Aug 15, 2008 12:47 pm

Unread post by apayne »

Singapore's strength is their mental math component. Learning to regroup single-digit problems is preparing for regrouping (mentally) double+ digit problems.

And I also agree with your statement - they do need to know that 8+6=14. Singapore just teaches different angles also, not instead.

Anne
tiffany
Posts: 159
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 9:56 am

Is it really good for every student?

Unread post by tiffany »

4littlehearts wrote:I am doing Adventures this year and am not satisfied with the math program my 2nd grade ds is doing. It is moving very fast. Would I have the same problem with Singapore? Do you find it to be hard for your children?
It has worked for all 3 of my older kids, with differing math aptitudes and learning styles. My 2nd grader has just started with Level 1 and loves it so far. I would think it would work for most children.

Singapore was a huge improvement over our previous math program. All the kids liked it better and my math challenged student really improved. I think the diagrams and the mental math helped her. Also, Singapore has a very attractive layout for the student.

Of course, it helps if Mom likes the math program too. I much prefer it over our previous program and will most likely continue to use it for all my elementary age kids.
Tiffany
Wife to Tim ('88)
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tabby
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:29 pm

Unread post by tabby »

This is our first year with Singapore. My 2nd grade, 7yr old dd is doing well. She placed in the 1B book but we decided to begin in 1A for good review and a solid foundation for the following concepts. It has been a good confidence booster for her. She even said Math was one of her favorite subjects this year! It only takes about 15 minutes each day (including when I review addition facts with flashcards) All of that to say I am glad we started in 1A first and am pleased with the material.

I am learning not to get hung up on the level numbers. I am just looking at the materials and finding that it compares to 2nd grade work.
Tabatha :)
2011-2012: RTR - dd 10, ds 7
Enjoying our 6th year with MFW
warriormom
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:22 am

singapore math

Unread post by warriormom »

4littlehearts wrote:Thank you ladies. You have been such a big help in my understanding of the levels of Singapore not necessarily corresponding to a certain grade. Now I do not feel terrible if I have to start my son in Book 1A. Could you tell me how many lessons are covered in each lesson and if there are any tests?
I have used Singapore math K,1,2 and now 3 with my two boys. I love it and so do they, well, most of the time. I have improved in my mathmatical ability as well, because I look at the "simple things" differently. Generally, there are 2 (sometimes 1, sometimes 3) pages in each lesson, and no tests.
Hope that helps!
Melanie in SC
tabby
Posts: 34
Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2007 2:29 pm

Unread post by tabby »

We are currently in 1A and they do have some Review sections (at least 3 so far) built into the textbook. They are not "tests" but you can definitely see if your child is retaining the knowledge.
Tabatha :)
2011-2012: RTR - dd 10, ds 7
Enjoying our 6th year with MFW
705emily
Posts: 92
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:52 pm

Singapore Boo-Boo

Unread post by 705emily »

canidothis wrote: I am coming from a spiral learning math program and SIngapore's methods are like..whew! Hence my user id...Can I do this?

If the ds already knows his facts and understand vertical math? Must I teach those topics the Singapore way? I gues what I am trying to really get at is SIngapore has its approach to math. He has learned Abeka. Am I reinventing the wheel here?

Thansk a bunch....LB
It might be a challenge to learn the horizontal method as opposed to the vertical which you say he knows--but I think (IMHO) that it would be worth giving it a shot. The "horizontal" approach to addition makes certain that a child understands place value, not just addition facts. When you add 37 + 23 the child has to add the tens and then the units. (They can do it by adding the units first, but either way--it ensures that they know their place value.)
Rather than adding
37
+23
When they add vertically, it's easy for them to add the 7+3 and then 3+2, rather than 30 + 20. It is also good for the child to learn to manipulate numbers in his/her head--adding the tens first, then the units. When I first starting teaching the horizontal addition method--I was so frustrated, as I never learned this way--and my dd had a lot of trouble at first. She would add the tens to the units, or drop a number. I was tempted to just let her learn the vertical way--but I stuck with it, as I could see that it was forcing her to think about what she was doing. Now she doesn't just respond to the numbers--but understands the concept behind it. Just my .02! :)
Irmi Gaut
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Julie in MN
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Re: Singapore Boo-Boo

Unread post by Julie in MN »

I totally agree with Irmi that learning the other method helps kids understand rather than just do.

I also believe that Singapore teaches *many* methods to solve a problem, and that in itself is a lesson. I never made my ds *use* a particular method, but I did make him listen to the ideas showing that there *are* different methods. When they are doing early math, it may be logical and smart to do a problem in the way they are used to. But there will come a time when it may seem logical and smart to do a problem in a different way -- and it's going to help a lot if they've already been introduced to some of those other methods.

Julie
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Cyndi (AZ)
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Re: Singapore Boo-Boo

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) »

Julie in MN wrote:When they are doing early math, it may be logical and smart to do a problem in the way they are used to. But there will come a time when it may seem logical and smart to do a problem in a different way -- and it's going to help a lot if they've already been introduced to some of those other methods.
I really like the Singapore method - it definitely teaches a child to think. Just yesterday, I asked my dd to explain how she arrived at an answer, and she went into this crazy explanation of setting aside the hundreds first and using the leftover, and yada yada yada, and I just answered, "OK, great." I wouldn't have done it that way, but I figured as long as she was doing mental math and using place values to solve it, I wasn't going to argue. :)

The cool thing about it is that a child who knows how to do "horizontal math" can easily look at a "vertical problem" and solve it. Not so much the other way around. And word problems are fun games when you can solve them in your head.
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL
extrafor6
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:36 pm

s/o: Is Singapore Math Ahead of Grade?

Unread post by extrafor6 »

This is a continuation of the discussion from the 1st grade Math post...

I have a degree in math, so I'm sort of a crazy person when it comes to math :)

Anyhow, I don't think SM is really "ahead" or "behind" . There are some topics that aren't covered until later than in a more traditional approach, but they are eventually covered. It's just the way the scope and sequence of the programs are laid out.

Where Singapore is way ahead, in my opinion and limited experience, is in the way they teach the student to process and problem solve. Memorizing the algorithm isn't the primary goal of SM. They learn why! I love that they learn to carry numbers by regrouping mentally before they are introduced to vertical addition with carrying numbers. In comparing the word problems in SM and CLE, there is no comparison...SM requires the student to THINK and use multiple steps to find the answer and is superior in my opinion.

Anyhow, sorry to ramble, but I am passionate about a solid math foundation for our children.
Oh, and I decided to use MFW recommendation for 1st grade math so I bought the math book...but I also bought Singapore 1A and 1B for my own peace of mind :)

Be blessed today!
Stephanie
Julie in MN
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Still working on finding the right math....struggling 11

Unread post by Julie in MN »

secondchance wrote:I'm still trying to find the appropriate math curriculum for my struggling math kiddo, 11yo ds. We are taking him out of public school where he struggled greatly in many ways, math being one of those ways.

I've looked at Rod & Staff (5th gr), Singapore, Saxon. Not sure what would help him the most. Rod & Staff looks nice because I think he wouldn't be distracted by too many pictures. Not sure if he will understand all the pictures in Singapore. He did fine (mostly) with Saxon when we hs'ed him a few years ago.

I think we need to go back and review a lot, but should I leave that up to the built in review in the curriculum? Or should I take him back a year to catch up? He is not a self-starter with school, I'm not sure we could do 2 years of math in one school year.

Does anyone have any advice to give me? My brain is about fried looking at math curriculums online and trying to decide.
Any help at all is appreciated!
Thanks,
Debbie
<hugs> on the math worries.

As you can see from the posts, there are lots of math programs that folks use. I'm just going to chime in with your questions about Singapore, because that's the program recommended by MFW. So you can add this one to the mix and hopefully it won't fry your brain even more %|

- If you choose Singapore, you do a placement test, so no worries about whether to put him "back." The Singapore levels don't need to match the US grade level at all. If he's placed way, way back, MFW has recommendations about how to go a little more quickly, and there are a few moms on the boards who have shared good experiences with that.

- Also, if you have any trouble along the way using Singapore, you will get tons of help here and on other online support venues, so that's an extra benefit these days with using Singapore, vs. using some of the other maths.

- Singapore Math is not a US math program, and has become popular here because Singapore students have scored much higher than US math students. I'd say it's not a matter of learning how to "get through" the math faster, but learning how to "think mathematically" that accounts for the difference.

- The "pictures" in Singapore are not like some US math books where they put all the math problems in a rocket ship in order to make them look fun. The pictures in Singapore math books are "concrete" math, which is where Singapore Elementary always starts -- "see" what we are doing here with the amounts, then slowly take away the visual and realize what we are doing with the symbolic numbers -- yes, numerals are a code and you can learn to follow certain steps to decode them, but really they represent "things" and moving them around.

- Teaching Singapore is probably best done by learning alongside your child as you go through the text, since it isn't the way we learned math.

HTH,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
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Julie in MN
Posts: 2909
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Brand-new homeschooler with Q's

Unread post by Julie in MN »

yvonneh wrote:I'm willing to try Singapore Math. My girls are currently in a Christian school which uses A Beka for math, but my oldest transferred there from public school halfway through 2nd grade. She has done okay in it, especially this year with times tables, but can't seem to do any word problems on her own, which is the application part of math. Does Singapore stress application of math facts vs. just drilling them? I've heard Singapore math is confusing? Incomplete ?

I've seen some other posts and heard a fellow homeschool mom here say Singapore doesn't drill the facts enough. And, we did work pretty hard to get her used to A Beka Arithmetic when she switched over from public school to private in 2nd grade, so maybe we will just stick with that.

Thoughts on all these would be helpful. Hoping to be able to actually see a textbook at our are expo before ordering...
Well, I'll chime in about Singapore success. I have a son in precalculus (through a college) and he was raised on Singapore. He is pretty fast and more than that, he understands what he's doing. Today we just bought our first calculator that cost more than $2 (woah, a lot more!), because he just hasn't needed one, he does most computation and conception quickly and easily, often in his head.

The thing is that Singapore is not an American program, but we "teachers" were raised on American math. My experience in public schools is that math facts were in the textbook, but the curriculum couldn't possibly predict the point of each student's mastery. I suppose some kids learn just as the American textbook outlines (I was probably one of those, maybe gratitude's child is as well), maybe just because they slogged thru 50 problems a day and eventually a bunch of them were memorized, except maybe the hard ones. Some didn't learn a thing by staring at workbook pages. Typically, teachers also sent math facts home to parents to practice for a year or 2, and then the class moved on. Some learned math facts at home (all my kids did) and despised math because of the monotony (this was the kind of kid my youngest was, he would have learned them at home and been bored).

In Singapore, as in most Asian countries, students excel at math. They test far above Americans, both in computation speed and in math understanding, typically evaluated by the TIMSS test (Wikipedia charts yearly national rankings, if you'd like to see the national comparisons). That impressive record is why Singapore Primary Math became popular in America. But success doesn't come simply from textbooks. I've tutored Asian kids and, depending on the country, their children start learning math facts at 3-5 years old, usually through math centers which expect the children to spend 20 minutes on math at home or in their center, 7 days a week, outside of their regular schoolwork. I've heard that Singapore classroom teachers also review with chants and such, but really there is not so much of a need to spend classroom time on math facts that the students already know. I'm not a big fan of starting math facts at ages 3-5, but I do think they need to be a focus at some point.

Anyways... My point is that Singapore parents almost ALL do math facts on their own, and American parents who switch to Singapore Math might not realize that part of the lack of success in EITHER program (their disappointment with American math as well as their trouble transitioning to Singapore math) can be neglecting math facts. In Singapore, parents feel it is their responsibility. In American, often parents feel it is the teacher's or the textbook's responsibility. And I've seen LOTS of American children never master their math facts using 13 years of American math, homeschooled or not, so really it isn't unique to Singapore math users.

As far as Singapore seeming to need extra materials... When we tried Saxon 3rd grade early on, our teacher's manual was hundreds and hundreds of pages, there were extra teaching materials, student books, a manipulatives kit and I think flashcards were in there, too. So not that different than Singapore in terms of amounts of extra materials *available to you* within the program. And my experience in public school was that ps teachers use lots of extra teaching materials *outside* the program - many extra worksheets, manipulative "centers," and most importantly they send letters home instructing parents to teach math facts at home, how to make your own flashcards, etc. I just had a public school teacher purchase math games from me for her public school classroom. So not all that different than Singapore in terms of using materials beyond the publisher's program to teach math facts and give extra reinforcement.

I've sometimes thought that MFW ought to lay out a specific plan for doing math facts. I mean, I like the new flashcards they've produced and the lesson plans and especially the ECC grid slots for drill, but it's easy to slip out of mind. On the other hand, I've used a ton of different math facts materials and I think each child responds differently, learns differently, enjoys different things, goes at different rates. So come to think of it, I actually probably wouldn't use a planned-out math facts program LOL, because I would tailor it to my child. But I do think that learning math facts is something that needs to be more of a focus than it sometimes is, both in our public schools and our homeschools. I was glad it was on the grid when we started MFW (with ECC), and maybe because of that, I continued to put it on my math box in later years, through 7th or 8th grade. I used a ton of different things, from workbooks to games. There are some good ideas posted on the board: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1141 and more http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8429

Just another thought to add to your poor spinning brain,
Julie
Last edited by Julie in MN on Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:07 am, edited 7 times in total.
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs
yvonneh
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Re: Brand-new homeschooler with Q's

Unread post by yvonneh »

Even with using A Beka Arithmetic, my daughter is supposed to drill math facts at home for 15 minutes a night for homework. I'm not as diligent with that as I could be, but like I said in a previous post, she's doing REALLY well with multiplication and times tables. My experience when she was in public school was that they did speed drills, but then told them they could draw marks to help them count or count on their fingers (in 2nd grade!!). Their current school is very insistent on memorizing and drilling math facts.

I think I have two major concerns now:

1) She struggles so much with word problems (reminds me of someone I know in school :)). I think she just mentally shuts down when she sees a word problem, like she just assumes she can't do it before she even gets to it. I'm drawn to Singapore because I think it will help her have the confidence to approach word problems (and maybe higher level math) with more confidence.

2) The '"losing ground" issue. Because she was in ps for 2.5 years, I feel like she was already behind. We worked extra hard during her 2nd semester of 2nd grade getting her caught up with math, then had her do one-on-one tutoring once a week over the summer to keep her skills. I'm not sure at this point if it is worth losing the ground to switch to Singapore or not.

Whatever I decide on, though, I'll do for everybody. I'm not going to teach two different math programs. So, like I said in a previous post, if we stick with A Beka Arithmetic, I will probably do that 1st grade book with the 1st grader to keep her in the flow. If we switch to Singapore, though, she can just go to Singapore 1A when she starts 2nd grade.

Another question I had about Singapore -- where do you get the manipulatives from? I looked through the Singapore TM, and you need some small counters, a hundreds board, etc.

Thanks again for all the imput. :)
Yvonne
wife to Pete since 2002
born again believer since 2005
mom to 3 dd:
--elizabeth, 9
--abigail, 6
--faith, 3
ECC 2013-2014
Learning God's Story (1st) 2013-2014
extrafor6
Posts: 22
Joined: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:36 pm

Re: Brand-new homeschooler with Q's

Unread post by extrafor6 »

As for math, we do use Singapore Math and really love it. However, I can see that it might be difficult to transition your 4th grader into it. I agree it's light in drills. It has lots of word problems, and my 8 often cries about them :) I think just having your daughter at home with the comfort of knowing you are there if she gets stuck will help her make some improvements.

For some reason, it's less painful for all of my girls to do their math at the kitchen counter while I'm working on something. I think they just feel more "math secure" that way. I'm not sure :) I was also going to suggest that you could always stay with Abeka math and purchase an Evan Moor Daily Word Problems workbook. We use the Daily Math review and really like that.
I'm excited for you as you begin this journey! It really does take a little time to figure our what works for your family and to get the kinks worked out, so don't be discouraged!
Stephanie
MFW-Lucy

Re: Brand-new homeschooler with Q's

Unread post by MFW-Lucy »

Comparing math programs when looking at a traditional program like Abeka and one that is not traditional like Singapore is like comparing apples and oranges. These programs simply approach math differently. If you or I were living in Asia (China, Russia, Japan, Singapore) we would have learned math differently. As Julie mentioned Singapore is Asian math and the thinking and approach is different from American math. American math generally moves kids to a workbook approach to math very early with very little concrete activities to help solidify concepts.

The author's experience with her own children and feedback from other families has helped My Father's World to develop a program in the early years (PreK-1st grade) that is hands-on, real life math. Working with addition and subtraction with different hands-on activities over a long period of time helps kids to begin learning the facts in a concrete way so that when they are ready to begin drill often they have already learned many facts from playing games. We do not encourage learning facts BEFORE the concept is understood well. Rote memory of any math facts can actually make it harder in math since if a step in the process is forgotten you are lost, but if you know the concept you can usually figure it out. So we are better late than early when it comes to learning facts. The addition/subtraction flashcards that have been added recently to the 1st grade are not used for drill, but to help make connection between the blocks and the written expression. They can be used for drill once a child is ready. Some kids will be ready to start math drill in 1st and others not until 2nd grade. In the Singapore 1B lesson plan guide it will note when to begin using flashcards to drill. As mentioned above there are many ways to drill (online games, drill sheets, games, etc.). In my experience a mix of these will help to reinforce the facts to help put them into long term memory.

I moved my kids to Singapore from a more traditional program late (4th and 6th grade). It had nothing to do with drill, because I think no matter what program you use you have to drill. With Singapore they just don't provide worksheets for you or cute songs. There are plenty of those to be found without them being part of the program. I moved them for different reasons since one finds math naturally easy and the other does not. They both flourished. The program is strong in teaching how to break down numbers to be able to do mental math. With this foundation kids begin to learn how to add and subtract larger numbers using paper. The program is also strong in teaching application of math to real life problems (better know as the dreaded word problems). Even I learn so much about using pictures and the famous bar diagrams to solve problems instead of algebra (upper books by the way). It also teaches other important areas of math as well such as time, measurement, etc.

Another reason MFW chose to use Singapore is the age appropriate amount of time expected to work on math each day. A 2nd or 3rd grader will spend about 30-40 minutes on math each day.

Also it is easy to use maniplatives with Singapore for children who need to "do it" to understand it. Singapore is pictorial and so it is simple to replicate the pictures with blocks or whatever you have at home. Most of the teaching is primarily done from the textbook with the child. The Lesson Plan Guides for the earlier books will give a few suggestions for activities to reinforce a lesson using blocks.

If you decide to switch, you do not have to wait until the next school year. You can switch at any time by having your child take the placement test. Expect to test several levels back from the current grade level. These levels are NOT grades, but levels to progress through. Many children will progress through the 1st book more quickly, especially an older student. Once they are "caught" up to complete 5B by 6th grade you can complete one day at a time from the Daily Lesson Plan Guide. See our website for more information about progressing through the books at a faster pace in order to be "caught up"

I know it is hard to make decisions about whether to change to something different. I used another program for 5 years and if I had it to do over I would start with Singapore and I would switch again, but it was a bit agonizing to make the decision. I switched in the spring and worked through the summer (that was the only subject we did).

If you have more questions, please do not hesitate to give our office a call at 573-202-2000 and of course you can keep asking questions here too.

Lucy
yvonneh
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Feb 25, 2013 4:54 pm

Re: Brand-new homeschooler with Q's

Unread post by yvonneh »

Thank you, Lucy. I appreciate your feed back. I am seeing maybe some of the "cons" of having so much flexibility with curriculum. Sometimes i wish someone would just TELL me what to use so I can stop going through the mental gymnastics of it all.
Yvonne
wife to Pete since 2002
born again believer since 2005
mom to 3 dd:
--elizabeth, 9
--abigail, 6
--faith, 3
ECC 2013-2014
Learning God's Story (1st) 2013-2014
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