PP - Choosing guides? Match history/read-aloud?

Issues specific to teaching 6th to 8th graders, including the transition to Saxon math, Apologia science, Progeny Press guides, and grammar lessons

PP - Choosing guides? Match history/read-aloud?

Unread post by cbollin » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:05 pm


Posted: Mon Jul 24, 2006 7:00 am

PP carries a guide for The Bronze Bow, which is a RTR read aloud. It is a 7 unit study guide, so that will cover at least 7 weeks of lessons (maybe a bit more depending on how it goes).

And don't forget you'll also be using English from the Roots Up, so that counts as language too.

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1850-MOD - 8th grader

Unread post by Tina » Thu Aug 21, 2008 1:29 pm

Teresa in TX wrote:I'm planning to do the 2 progeny press guides for my 8th grade dd this year. What would be 2 good books to do? A couple of years ago I read "Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry" or something like that. It was a good look at the effects of slavery. I'm considering that. With the layout of the year 1850-Mod, what would be some good choices for the fall and the spring? My intention is to give her 2-3 books in the fall and 2-3 in the spring, with one of those books each semester having a pp guide. I realize there will be book suggestions in the TM, but I don't have it yet, and I'm wanting to plan a little. Does the tm have good suggestions for that age group? TIA
Hi. My daughter will be 8th grade next year in 1850-MOD. Right now she is 7th in Exploration-1850. She has already chosen for next year what PP she will do. We did get "Across Five Aprils" because it is a read aloud (she will probably do the guide too) She also picked "The Secret Garden" and "Anne of Green Gables". Those were her picks and I agreed.
Tina, homeschooling mother of Laura (1996), Jacob (1998) and Tucker (2003) In MO
"One of the greatest blessings of heaven is the appreciation of heaven on earth. He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose."--JIM ELLIOT

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Unread post by Lucy » Mon Aug 25, 2008 12:39 pm

I think whatever you agree on will be fine for your daughter. For my kids, I let them pick from a list of several that I had chosen.

The only thing that I would suggest is to stick with the middle school books. The goal of using PP guides is to help them to learn how to begin to analyze and study a piece of literature. The high school PP are longer and more in-depth. I learned this by experience last year when I let my son do the The Hobit. Great book and he loved it, but we just did not do as much of the study because it was too much.

wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

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Involving the student in making the choice

Unread post by kellybell » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:03 am

Posted: Thu May 17, 2007 4:43 pm
The literature this year didn't coordinate with history (RTR). My 7th grader did My Side of the Mountain (for a gentle start) and then King of the Wind (because she likes horses).

There is a website with descriptions of each study (recommended grades, story line, and whether the vocabulary, spelling, and what-not are easy, moderate, or challenging).

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:11 am
One nice thing you can do is go to the PP website and find a list of all their studies. They group them (oh, it's been nearly a year, so I might be wrong) both alphabetically by title (great if you want to see if a certain book is covered) and also by grade level. I printed out a list of books available for my dd based on her grade. I told her to pick her four favorites and I'd narrow it down to two or three.

Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 7:54 am
By the time they get to the middle school grades, I want them to have a little say in what they are doing. So, I got the PP catalog and highlighted the ones that (due to content and recommended age level) would be appropriate for the upcoming school year (you could do two different highlighter colors if you are dealing with two children, etc.).

Anyway, after highlighting a dozen or more appropriate study guides, I let my students take a few days to choose three studies for the upcoming year. They can read the blurb in the catalog or even try to find the book at the library to see if it would be a good read.

With this method, chances are that the chosen books won't line up with the MFW studies, but then again, for us it just wasn't that important to line up the stories with the history (although it would be really cool if they did).

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Unread post by Lucy » Tue Sep 23, 2008 1:14 am

Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:21 pm
You may want to wait and do Across Five Aprils next year when it is covered in 1850-Modern. It is one of the read alouds so you may even want to choose a different book all together. Just a thought.


Julie in MN
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Sharing the read-alouds?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:25 pm

momatpeace wrote:I'm going to use PP with 2 of the read aloud books from the RtR package next year. I'm thinking I'm being frugal -- kill 2 birds with one stone. Will we be in competition for the same book?

I've been nervous about "above grade school" level for a while... but I feel like MFW is holding my hand and helping get through this. THANK YOU! This message board and all it's archives are a great resource.
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:55 am
Hi Jennifer,
At convention this year, I asked David if it was suggested to not do PP guides on the read-alouds. He said it didn't matter either way. I didn't go with those, but I considered that as you are.

As far as sharing the book, it seems unlikely your student will work on the guide while you are doing the read-aloud?

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RTR... & Fun Books

Unread post by 4Truth » Tue Sep 30, 2008 10:26 pm

Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 10:37 am
The PP guides have a lot to chew on. If you're thinking of doing one with The Bronze Bow, I'd read through the whole book first and then go back and have your dd do the PP guide. Reason being, The Bronze Bow can get kinda' dry in places and you have stay alert to reach another climactic scene. We got a lot out of it just reading it aloud together.... even Leanna surprised us all by making an announcement at the end that told us she really "got it" and WAS listening even though she was moving the entire time!

Then your dd can go back through the PP guide and take it more slowly in order to concentrate on some of the finer points. There's quite a bit of Bible study that goes along with it (in the PP guide).

So, that's if you're going to do a guide that goes with your scheduled read-alouds. Otherwise, I'd choose a fun book totally unrelated to your history and Bible studies. RTR is pretty meaty all by itself (IMO).

Choosing a "Fun" Book
Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:25 pm
momatpeace wrote:I never though about PP being "fun". Maybe I could give her the list and let her pick books that she would really enjoy reading herself instead.
See, that's what we're doing... Kayla chose Anne of Green Gables to start over the summer for her first one.
momatpeace wrote:See -- that's why I ask questions. I have NOT arrived... as of yet. HA!
None of us have, dearie! I love that we keep learning new things along the way!


Recommendation on lit guides for 1850-mod

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Oct 07, 2008 6:24 pm

Teresa in TX wrote: I really want to cover the Civil War with historical fiction. If we werent' reading Across Five Aprils together, I might give her that lit guide...I may anyway. Anyone have input on Amos Fortune and if your dc liked it? What other Christian lit guides are there besides PP that might have more of an offering for this point in American History? Thanks!!
I'd suggest going ahead with PP for Across Five Aprils. No real reason it can't be used just because it is a read aloud. No reason that you have to take 6 weeks with a PP guide either. We ended up doing ours in less time because I adjusted other assignments. Not all of it was done independently either. I know too many people around me who use them in co-ops and for leading discussions. My oldest did certain sections on her own, then others were done out loud together as discussion. found it very flexible this year.

Also, you might like to just let her read historical fiction from book basket and pick one of PP titles as something else for purposed of lit analysis. Not everything in lit. analysis has to be historical fiction this year, or it can wait until the middle of the stuff in the 20th century too.


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Unread post by MJ in IL » Wed Oct 08, 2008 8:56 am

I have not used PP guides so can't repond re: those. However, dd14 did read Amos Fortune and did a TLP guide with it several years ago and really enjoyed it. I think using the Across 5 Aprils while you are reading aloud would be a great way to start with a lit guide.
dd14 enjoying AHL; ds12 & ds10 in RtR & dd5 working through K!
have done K (2X), 1 (2X), ECC, CtG, & 1850MT

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Unread post by Lucy » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:46 am

My daughter read and used the literature guide for The Witch of Blackbird Pond. This one would be earlier than 1850 but is an excellent American History book if she did not already read it. She both enjoyed the book and the guide.

Here are books that we have not done as guides but have read a loud over the years. They are all excellent books and give some picture of life in American/World History: (Some of these would fall into last year's time period but are very good books in my opinion)

*Carry On, Mr. Bowditch(1700's)
*Johnny Tremain(1776)
*Number the Stars(WW2)
*Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry(depression)
*The Sign of the Beaver(Earlier American)
*Island of the Blue Dolphins(CA history in particular)

You can get specifics about each book at the PP web site. We have read many of the other books on the list too which are excellent.

I agree with Crystal that the PP studies do not all have to be historical fiction. With my own kids I let them choose from the list one they wanted to read and then had them choose one from a list of historical fiction books.

Hope that helps,
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

Teresa in TX
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Unread post by Teresa in TX » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:29 am

Thanks for the responses, everyone. I talked to dd and decided to let her pick her first book to do. I had already decided to have her read Roll of Thunder Hear My Cry in the spring, so I'm just letting her pick her own for right now. Across Five Aprils is such good historical fiction, in my opinion, that I'll let her pick something non-historical. I think she decided on Tuck Everlasting.

For anyone interested, I found the free lit guide online for Across Five Aprils. I plan to use some of the questions and ideas, orally mostly, as we read the book. We just started it yesterday. It's not a Christian guide, but the questions are good and it has some good activity suggestions.

Teresa, Mom of 5: 15yo dd, 12yo ds, 7yo ds, 5yo ds, and 1yo ds

4th year with MFW
MFW 1st w/ 7yo ds
MFW RtR w/ 7th grade ds
MFW World History with 10th grade dd
So far we have used: ECC, 1850-Present, CTG, RtR, High School Ancients and MFW K


EX-1850 & 1850-MOD

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:11 am

DanaCO wrote:EX-1850...an obvious choice is Amos Fortune, Free Man. I'm wondering what other book & guide would be a good choice for this study. I was quickly overwhelmed by the choice of over 100 guides! I figured before I spent tons of time searching, I'd ask some of you who've BTDT.
Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 4:16 pm
It doesn't *have* to be related to what you are studying. So if there is something on the list that your child really really likes, and the guide is for their grade level, it's ok to use it.

However, some of the PP titles that are related to EX1850:
Amos Fortune (it's a read aloud in EX1850)
Sign of the Beaver (study guides says for grades 5-7)
Witch of Blackbird Pond (study guides says grade 5-7)
Johnny Tremain (grades 6-8 on the study)
Carry On Mr. Bowditch (study guide grades 5-7)
Tom Sawyer was set in the 1840's right???

Posted Sat Aug 23, 2008 5:52 pm by cbollin

I haven't read everything on PP's list. But it is nice that they give the setting on their descriptions of the guide, so that might help too. I'm thinking out loud....

The Hiding Place might be ok, except that I think it will be studied in MFW High School year 2. So it might not work.

Bridge to Terabithia might be ok. I let my 7th grader read it. set in early-mid 1970's. I'll give a tiny warning that you might want to preview it to make sure you don't mind the book. It had the "d word" in it one time (and I don't mean Dallas). The study guide for it was fine for us. I just know that if I'm going to mention that book, I should mention that one part. I don't remember it being loaded with negative language.

maybe that would help narrow it down????? maybe not. I haven't used any of those to tell you how it went ;)

Julie in MN
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Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:15 am

Posted: Mon Jul 14, 2008 10:41 pm
I don't know that I've BTDT except that I've been at the PP booth and looked at their 100 guides right there with ya!

We had a discussion a while ago about whether to let the kids choose. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=5460 And I think Lucy pointed out here http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=3761 that by high school, they won't get to choose much of their reading, so this is a last chance to do that. Of course, these won't be the only 2 books to read all year.

My ds told me to choose. I picked one that looked like a "very easy read" so that he could spend more time on the analysis and less on the reading (Maniac Magee, which is actually set more in 1850-MOD). Even with this book, the PP guide still includes some great thinking questions about the characters' choices as well as connections to Bible stories. The vocabulary is words he will actually run into soon (opening it up to p. 28, I see: mosey, frayed, robust, repertoire, blarney, & grouse), rather than obscure words he doesn't need yet in 7th grade. Several lit analysis topics are covered: hyperbole, metaphor, conflict/complications/resolution.

For the second guide, I got Carry on Mr. Bowditch (1700s).

At the end of the year, we should ALL post our reviews of how it went!

Julie in MN
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PP - Choosing guides? Match read-aloud?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:49 pm

cbollin wrote:One of the things about the Progeny Press guides that I've noticed is that the grade levels on the guides are more about the level of the guide and not necessarily the books themselves. So, even advanced and strong readers might not be ready for going too far above their age/grade level with the analysis questions in some of them.
Posted Wed Aug 06, 2008 10:26 pm by Julie in MN
I agree, Crystal.

I got what looked like an "easy read" for ds's first study -- Maniac Magee. It says grades 5-7 on the front (book level?) and 6-8 on the back, so it didn't look to hard for a 7th grader who's a strong reader (even if he doesn't like to read because he's so social).

You do a lot of looking up verses in the Bible and comparing them to the characters' actions. Sometimes you are looking up 4-5 verses just for one question.

There are a lot of questions about relationships, things under the surface, and change over time (as well as looking at these things from God's perspective). Younger kids can answer these questions, but older kids will have more maturity and life experience by this time.

And finally, I think some of the themes may be mature, even if the student is an advanced reader. For instance, Maniac addresses the issue of divorce (including looking it up in the Bible), and maybe that doesn't need to be dug into too early in life?!

So I guess I'm just agreeing to pick from your child's "age" not their "reading level."

Oh, and Progeny offers this list that separates their guides by genres such as history & Christian authors:
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs


Progeny Press Guides, 7th grade

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Sep 23, 2009 1:52 pm

baileymom wrote:My DD has read most of MFW's recommended literature choices for the PP Guides. I thought I would choose some she hasn't read, and have googled and regoogled for "living book" choices for our Science this year (astronomy...human body just doesn't seem to have any :).

Both Carry On, Mr. Bowditch and A Wrinkle In Time are CM-style books from what I can gather. I was just wondering about anyone's thoughts on these 2 book selections (they are both in the middle grade group). I think the PP Guides are pretty pricey, so I want to make good choices.

Hi Kathi,

I know we ended up using some PP guides that my oldest had already read the books. It was ok to re-read it and then study the book. It made it easier in some ways to do the study because she had an overview of the book. So, that's an option to consider.

And especially with Witch of Blackbird Pond-- we just did that one in PP and couldn't believe some of the discussions that we had and just how that went. kind of interesting to talk about courtship, obeying authorities, politics, hard work, fights b/n various Christians, etc. She had read that book or parts of it when we did EX1850 a few years back, so it was fun to revisit. But you might plan to do that next year depending what history program she's in next year. I just meant it as a example. just one of those days where I'm rambling and not making sense.....

anyway.... just a heads up on Wrinkle in Time -- some families will not be comfortable to use it due to the content with a science fiction/imaginative fantasy theme and bizarreness of the book and maybe even the magic stuff in it. My family would be fine using it with oldest, but I know my middle kid would be confused by it. But I recognize that I don't know preferences of everyone else.


Julie in MN
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Re: Progeny Press Guides, 7th grade

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:55 pm

Hi Kathi,
My son loved the Bowditch book but did not like the PP guide at all. I wrote about the guides we used [above]. Maybe someone else will chime in who loved that guide?!

Have you looked in the MFW book basket lists for living books for science? I remember at least a few listed for each science topic, though I don't know if they'd fit your needs. I do personally think A Wrinkle in Time is enough of a "classic" (i.e. referenced in other books, articles, speeches, etc.) that it would be worth my time to have my student read it, but of course I don't know how the PP guide would be.

It sounds like you're doing RTR, so you've probably already considered the Bronze Bow guide? I'm not sure why some of the other PP guides wouldn't be called CM literature. Are you just meaning that you want them to correlate with history? How about Crispin or Island of the Blue Dolphins? (Again, I haven't used the guides, sorry.)

Like Crystal, just chatting :)
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
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Re: Progeny Press Guides, 7th grade

Unread post by hsmomof5 » Thu Sep 24, 2009 2:52 am

You've had some great heads up on those titles but here's a site that I love. It gives the content regarding foul language, adult situations, etc.
ds 19 (college freshman), ds 12, ds 12, and ds 10 (ECC '08) (CTG '09), dd 3 (Preschool)

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Re: Progeny Press Guides, 7th grade

Unread post by baileymom » Thu Sep 24, 2009 6:40 am

Thanks for your replies, I like to chat, so they were perfect. I did consider The Bronze Bow, but the stinker went and read it over the summer, so I was hesitating. But I think after what Crystal said, I may go ahead and order it, hoping she will get more out of it. Also, thank you for the heads up on Wrinkle in Time. I will talk it over with DH, but I really think it will be the best choice for the second half of the school year (she is in 7th, and rather mature for her age, so I think she will be able to handle it).

I will read over your previous link as I get time today Julie.

Crystal - I don't know when Edie and I will throw our next party (you know, since I am having a baby in 12 days), but we'd love you to join us...maybe we could meet in the middle, sound fun?

Kysha - Thank you for the link, maybe it will prove to be my "pluggedinonline" for books...don't know how you stay so on top of things lady! You're an inspiration.
Kathi - graduated 1, homeschooling 6, preschooling 2, growing 1

Julie in MN
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Read Alouds 1850Mod

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat May 29, 2010 2:00 am

JenD wrote:I am full of questions lately! :)
I know that Across Five Aprils is a Read Aloud in 1850Mod; I just read that Progeny Press has a study for the book. What do you all think about
1. DS13 reading it and doing the guide
2. I read it aloud to both boys & DS13 does the study guide.
Would I then add another book for him to read if I use it as a read aloud?
In full planning mode these days, can't u tell?
I'd for sure read the book as a family, first of all. It really adds to your study of the Civil War, and I just like having the opportunity to do discuss that part of history as a family.

Then if your ds wants to use that book for his PP guide, that works out just fine. I know MFW recommends a guide for a read-aloud in RTR: http://www.mfwbooks.com/progenypress/index.htm

I haven't used the Across 5 Aprils guide, myself. I do think the guides differ a little from one to another, since they are written by different authors & are just each unique to some extent, so hopefully someone will chime in who's used this one.

Meanwhile, your kids each have their independent reading time daily. I've always expected about a chapter a day, with the chapters getting longer as they get older. Although by 8th grade, I sometimes increased that, or added an extra chapter for the weekend. As far as what book I chose, that varied over time based on things like (1) his interests, (2) ideas from the book basket list in the manual, (3) books we had on our shelves, (4) the list of classics in the back of the manual, (4) a book club he belonged to, (5) etc.

Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
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Re: Read Alouds 1850Mod

Unread post by dhudson » Sat May 29, 2010 11:40 pm

We used the Across Five Aprils Guide while reading it aloud with our 7th grader and it worked well. He would just take the book and re-read it or use it for deeper study during his school time. It helped to have me reading it aloud for the first time he did a Progeny Guide because I could help. I thought it worked great and it was a nice intro to the the guides which made the second guide he did go smoother.
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7th grade L.A. question: Progeny Press Guides?

Unread post by TriciaMR » Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:47 pm

rebeccal2002 wrote:I have a 7th grade girl, we're going be doing RTR next. I'm supposed to get 2 Progeny Press guides along with all the other stuff for LA. The website suggests Bronze Bow and Eagle of the Ninth to go along with RTR. I think Bronze Bow is included as one of the 4 read alouds. How does that work? Is this supposed to be for independent reading? Do I order the Eagle of the Ninth separately? This is my first time having to add the extra things for a 7th grader, can you tell? :)

Thanks for the help.
We did Bronze Bow a couple of years ago when we did RTR, so this year my dd is doing it as one of her PP books. Read alouds are meant to be read aloud. If you are doing it as a PP guide, too, then you could let your dd read it on her own, or schedule to do the PP guide after you've done it as a read aloud. I had my dd read the whole book first, and now we're doing a page to a page and a half a day in the PP guide. Some of it she does on her own (crossword puzzles, dictionary work). For the discussion questions we do them together - I don't require her to write the answers down.

Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
2015-2016 - WHL, RTR
2016-2017 - EXP1850, US1877
2017-2018 - DE, 1850MOD
2018-2019 - College, AHL
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Re: 7th grade L.A. question: Progeny Press Guides?

Unread post by Bret Welshymer » Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:42 pm

Bronze Bow is scheduled as a read aloud for your family. Your 7th grader will also complete the Progeny Press literature study guide for Bronze Bow. You can include your 7th grader in the read aloud time for Bronze Bow or you can excuse her, having her read the book independently. Either way your 7th grader will need to spend extra time referring to the book to complete the PP study guide.

You will purchase the Progeny Press study guide for both Bronze Bow and Eagle of the Ninth. You may also purchase the book Eagle of the Ninth. These are all available from My Father's World.

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Re: 7th grade L.A. question: Progeny Press Guides?

Unread post by rebeccal2002 » Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:27 pm

Ok, that helps. Study guides for both and then just order the Eagle of the Ninth book. Thank you!
HS'ing since 2006, MFW since 01/2011 :)
2015/16: ECC (2nd time around w/ 3rd, 6th and 8.5 grader), WHL (10th). Also 2nd half of K and 1st for 6 year old.

Finished K, 1st, ECC, CTG, RTR, Exp-1850, 1850-MOD, AHL

and 4 year old helping!

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Re: 7th grade L.A. question: Progeny Press Guides?

Unread post by donutmom » Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:59 pm

Just wanted to add. . .

We did the Progeny Press Bronze Bow study guide here (which was liked). We didn't own the Eagle of the Ninth at the time, so son picked another book for which he wanted to do the other PP study (per our approval). It had nothing to do with the time period of RTR.

So though the guides do go along with the study for the year, you aren't committed to those particular suggestions. Progeny Press has a plethora of choices.


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Re: 7th grade L.A. question: Progeny Press Guides?

Unread post by rebeccal2002 » Fri Aug 31, 2012 10:27 am

Thanks, Dee. I let her look at the PP website and she wants to do The Indian in the Cupboard. So I'm going to order that set for her instead of the Eagle of the Ninth.

HS'ing since 2006, MFW since 01/2011 :)
2015/16: ECC (2nd time around w/ 3rd, 6th and 8.5 grader), WHL (10th). Also 2nd half of K and 1st for 6 year old.

Finished K, 1st, ECC, CTG, RTR, Exp-1850, 1850-MOD, AHL

and 4 year old helping!

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