Saxon - Placement

Issues specific to teaching 6th to 8th graders, including the transition to Saxon math, Apologia science, Progeny Press guides, and grammar lessons
Lucy
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Saxon - Placement

Unread post by Lucy » Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:14 pm

Under the math section for 7th-12th graders on the home page for MFW, there is a link for Saxon and their progression. Note this at the bottom of the page:
Math 87 covers a broad spectrum of topics that are required by the mathematical standards of many states. Considerable pre-algebra content is included, and students who complete the text successfully (80% or higher test scores) will be prepared to take Algebra 1 as their next mathematics course.
Algebra 1/2 focuses on developing skills that prepare students for algebra. The pre-algebra content is more extensive than the pre-algebra content of Math 87; however, the scope is narrower.


MFW recommends beginning with 8/7 in 7th grade without taking a pre-test. The scope and sequence is broader and will cover pre-algebra as well. If your student does not make at least 80% on the final 8/7 test or you do not think he has mastered the pre-algebra and needs more pre-algebra preparation, then moving into Algebra 1/2 is the next step we would recommend before moving onto Algebra 1.

Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

lisa062797
Posts: 27
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 8:46 pm

Unread post by lisa062797 » Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:01 pm

And here is the link from the MFW math page for Saxon placement tests:
http://www.mfwbooks.com/math712.htm
http://www.mfwbooks.com/mathplacement/s ... RC9=&CAP=2
Lisa in MN
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Mom to
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donutmom
Posts: 67
Joined: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:41 am

for what it's worth from someone with no experience!!

Unread post by donutmom » Wed Oct 03, 2007 1:06 pm

I was "scoping" out various math curriculum at our state convention this year, as I'll have to decide to what to switch to in 2 years. When I talked to the Saxon rep, I wanted to know about the sequence of courses--especially the 8/7, Algebra 1/2, & Alg. 1.

His recommendation was to do the 8/7 (for it is a broader scope of subjects--as Lucy said--and good course overall). He then said that if the child really struggles in the algebra sections of the 8/7 course, he'd suggest going to the Alg. 1/2 next to give him further preparation. If the child did well with those sections, though, he could go right into the Alg. 1 course and do fine.

Don't know if that helps, but that's my tidbit gleamed from a rep.
-Dee

cbollin

Saxon 8/7

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Mar 26, 2010 3:52 pm

Homeschooling6 wrote:Now for my question ;) Can he skip 1/2 Algebra and go straight into Algebra 1. I have read more than once that if a one completed 8/7 they can skip the half algebra but wanted to confirm with you all.
Yes, he can, but he might benefit from not doing so depending on where he is in math at that time. The traditional Saxon thinking is:
if they do 8/7, homeschool edition with pre algebra and clearly are getting 80% or higher consistently.... usually they can skip algebra 1/2 and go into Alg 1.
here's the thing --- some kids might need to do Alg 1/2 or parts of it inbetween 8/7 and Alg I. There are notes in the MFW saxon algebra I lesson plans that give several options and "path" and advice on whether they need to continue in Alg 1, or other stuff.

My daughter did fine going from 8/7 to Alg I. So we're good.

so.. if he starts in 10th grade Alg 1 (which might seem very late to start algebra in some places), there is still time to do Geometry and then Alg II before graduation. depending on various graduation requirements for high school AND entrance for college requirements -- it might work ok. I know that's not what you asked. :)

keep on keeping on as much as possible. good job having a plan for coming back in math. you might also consider calling MFW office and see if they have any ideas for your situation.
Homeschooling6 wrote:I'm wondering if with 5/4 we can skip some of the beginning lesson :~ I'd only do this of course it it's absolutely easy.

Dh and I would like him to go to college (that's our academic goal anyway) but my dh and I think he might not be college material (and I'm saying that with a loving mom heart). Here is how he answered one of the questions on the Saxon placement test.
There was a number-line and it had an arrow pointing down. The question was asking to what number is the arrow pointing to. My son Josh answered "down' %|
Josh is bright, he just thinks differently. With lots of prayer we are able to cater his school to his needs.
the lesson plans are written for average to above average learners, and therefore you don't have to do ALL of the problems in each problem set. So, MFW schedules the most important ones. Sometimes you are doing all of the problem, but other times it might be 20 out of 30 of them.

but..if you aren't getting whatever percentage when you don't do all of the problems, then it tells you to go back, review, and do all of the problems. look at the solutions..

then in the algebra plans, again it is in the intro section: if you keep struggling and aren't grasping the ideas.... either 1. slow down the pace and do all of the problem. or 2. or go back to 1/2 if you skipped it.

basically if they do the mfw plans with not all of the problems and score less than 80% on tests, slow down and do all of the problems. There are other notes in the plans -- but in terms of placement and pacing... that's it.

-crystal

Amy in NC
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2005 10:51 pm

Re: Saxon 8/7

Unread post by Amy in NC » Fri Mar 26, 2010 5:39 pm

Linda, That is what MFW says. I think it's something like If they complete 8/7 with a score of 80 or above they can go straight to Alg I. I guess the emphasis is on IF.

ETA, Crystal & I were typing at the same time , So I guess that's it.

I have a question to add on to yours. I know MFW says that if you finish Singapore 5B by the end of 6th grade then go straight to 8/7, without doing the placement tests. Well, my dd will finish 5B soon and I glanced at the placement tests. I know that there are a couple of the concepts in the 7/6 section that she has not been taught or has not learned it very well. We casually went over the 6/5 and 7/6 sections and she placed in 7/6. So do I ignore the placement test and expect that the stuff she has seen before will come back to her or do I back up and do 7/6? Or should Linda & I look for a different curric for our struggling learners to get caught up before starting in 8/7? :-) I had to tie it back to Linda or she might not like me hijacking her thread! &) :-)
cbollin wrote:What age will she be when she starts 7th grade and turning what about when -- I'm not looking for actual b-day... just -- you know.. she's in 6th now and turns 12 in the summer/fall. winter... whatever.

my guess is that in 7th grade, some of those 7/6 topics will be covered again in 8/7 as part of how Saxon does it.
I would go over the concepts and stuff again in singapore from the things you see on the placement test in 7/6.

also... if you want.. which problems on the placement test are you seeing -- maybe I can dig out Saxon 8/7 book and see if they are covered again.

I think all you'd have to do is practice some more in Singapore then start in 8/7 in fall of 7th grade. but you know.... you might do some review on those topics and start 8/7 in October instead of August.

-crystal
crystal,

DD has a Sept B-day. When we started in K the cutoff was Oct...She is a young 6th grader.

These are the problems on the placement test that I'm pretty sure we have not seen yet in Singapore.

Math 7/6
45. What is the total price of a $45.79 item when 7% sales tax is added?
57. 26.9 + 12 + w = 49.25 Find w.
58. If d = rt, and if r = 60 and t = 4, what does d equal?
52. dividing by fractions
53. square roots and exponents
49. multiplying by 2 decimals, ie where to put the decimal

Then there are the ones I know she's been taught, but couldn't solve without a hint. She does a good job when we learn a concept, but then can't transfer that to mixed problem type situations. She always struggles on the Singapore practice sets and reviews. But I have noticed that each time we cycle back to a topic that she grasps the previous knowledge and then struggles with the new stuff until we cycle around again. Like it takes a long while for it to sink in. Does that make sense. What do you think.

Amy
Married to ♥
Rob♥ for 18 yrs
dd(11.5), dd(10), dd(6), and ds(3.5)
Completed Kx2, 1st, Adv, ECC, CTG, & RTR

cbollin

Re: Saxon 8/7

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Mar 26, 2010 7:41 pm

I do have some ideas. ...so she's barely "not"placing into 8/7 based on missing 6 questions when it says max of 4 to miss on that section...

ok... I would go into 8/7 based on what you've shared. Many of the little things that aren't in Primary Math (singapore 1A-5B) are taught in 8/7 so it is as if 8/7 is the next sequence to do. Placement tests aren't perfect, but based on the ones she is missing.... I say go with MFW's general recommendation to go from 5B to 8/7. the missing pieces will be taught in 8/7, not merely reviewed. you can consider to go out and get something like Key To Fractions or Key to Decimal --- inexpensive workbooks and practice a bit more on her specific needs.

specifics....

#45 -- rate and ratios are covered in Singapore..... some "sales tax"... so when you get to the sales tax new units in 8/7, she'll learn a few new ways to do those problems. I remember my oldest saying "hey.. .we did this with ratio boxes in Singapore and didn't know it" so it's going to be ok I think....

#49 -- I know Singapore doesn't really cover multiplying decimal by decimal... but it does really introduce a lot of this. So the transition to it should be quick. So.. when you reach lesson 35 in 8/7 it is called a New Concept when multiplying decimal by decimal is taught. so again, it's not assumed you have to know it to start 8/7.

#52 -- don't worry about that one....it'll be taught in 8/7. I can't remember if #52 was covered in singapore. It will be taught (not merely reviewed but taught) in 8/7

#53 -- come on... I don't even think my oldest got that one right on the test. sq. roots/exponents.... again that will be taught in 8/7. A child can miss up to 4 problems on a placement survey test.... don't worry about that problem on the test. my oldest would have missed it.

#58 does not really concern me -- b/c Singapore hasn't dealt with the algebra idea of RT just means R times T. I would ignore the placement test idea that says you can't give any help on that part --- that's just a translation issue between programs. Can she do the problem if she gets a translation that d= rt just meant D (like in distance) = R times T...... what happens then?
if she gets it.. great.. .if not...it will be covered early in 8/7.... and now she might remember -- oh yeah..... in math that might mean times...

#57 -- that one raises a tiny yellow flag with me because this is covered in Singapore a lot. Would she know what to do if it were 38 + w = 49? Would she be saying all of that "I know the whole thing, and I know one part... so I subtract to find the missing part). if not.... ask for ideas to review from singapore 2A and more.... if the light bulb goes on..... see if she can do 26 + 12 + w = 49.25 Does she make the connection with all of the times in Singapore when there are 3 friends and we know how much 2 of them paid and we know how much it costs total, and we want to know how much the 3rd one paid....

yes, this will be taught in 8/7.

I'm way too ramblings... all of that to say --- if you aren't sure of her skills in fractions and decimals and need more practice, consider not expensive workbooks on that topic for extra practice. The other things (exp. sq roots, more complication sales tax problems..... those get taught in 8/7 as well.


and definitely call the MFW office after you have finished 5B and see how she does with the placement test and let them know. they need that feedback.

-crystal

Homeschooling6
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:49 pm

Re: Saxon 8/7

Unread post by Homeschooling6 » Fri Mar 26, 2010 8:19 pm

Crystal, you are too kind. Amy, glad to hear your dd isn't really far behind.

I did notice on the MFW site that if your 6th dc is behind (I think my ds fits the bill) then have them spend 75 minutes doing math. Yup, that's going to be us. Although they are talking about Singapore math.

Well, at least we are fixing the problem.
Angela&Boys wrote:Well, Linda. You've encouraged me! I don't feel so alone. :)

Our 12yo ds (13 in May) is currently working through CLE 6. I've have heard him continually say that he feels stupid (when doing his math work), and it breaks my heart. My dh and I both encourage him, telling him that a) he's not! and b) that we all have strengths and weaknesses. Like you, we really hope he will go on to college and know that he must get through math to do so.

In my heart and after prayer I have heard that still small voice say slow and steady wins the race. He eventually gets it, it just takes a little longer than some. I'd much rather him be behind the norm and get it, than constantly struggling to stay afloat. Kwim?

It just doesn't help when you visit some homeschool boards where their 5th graders are doing Algebra 1! I always giggle when I see that, mainly because math never came easy to me. I fared well, but I had to work hard).

Anyway, I'm anxious to see how he does at the end of spring. I plan on giving him the Saxon placement test sometime in May.
Thank you Angela for taking the time to share. I know what you mean about about visiting forums.

Our boys are a year apart. My ds will be 12 in May! I would be happy if by the middle of 9th grade he can start Algebra.

Yes, I would much rather him 'get' it even if he is considered 'behind'. Than not get it and suffer for it as an adult.
Linda Mom to
Joshua 5/98, Annette 9/99, Caleb 9/00, Brent 10/01, Ethan 1/03, Lance 8/04
Currently using texbooks.


Our Blog http://training6hearts4him.blogspot.com

Homeschooling6
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2006 3:49 pm

Re: Saxon 8/7

Unread post by Homeschooling6 » Mon Mar 29, 2010 10:30 am

Angela&Boys wrote:Well, Linda. You've encouraged me! I don't feel so alone. :)

Our 12yo ds (13 in May) is currently working through CLE 6. Prior to that it sounds very similar to what your ds used. He has used MUS Alpha through Zeta (not quite to the end of Zeta), and we supplemented with some Math Mammoth. I've have heard him continually say that he feels stupid (when doing his math work), and it breaks my heart. My dh and I both encourage him, telling him that a) he's not! and b) that we all have strengths and weaknesses. Like you, we really hope he will go on to college and know that he must get through math to do so.

In my heart and after prayer I have heard that still small voice say slow and steady wins the race. He eventually gets it, it just takes a little longer than some. I'd much rather him be behind the norm and get it, than constantly struggling to stay afloat. Kwim?

It just doesn't help when you visit some homeschool boards where their 5th graders are doing Algebra 1! I always giggle when I see that, mainly because math never came easy to me. I faired well, but I had to work hard).

Anyway, I'm anxious to see how he does at the end of spring. I plan on giving him the Saxon placement test sometime in May.
Thank you Angela for taking the time to share. I know what you mean about about visiting forums.

Our boys are a year apart. My ds will be 12 in May! I'm praying he'll 'get' it and be able to skip Saxon 1/2 . As it is we are trying to fit 5/4, 6/5, 7/6 and 8/7 in two years including summers :~ Uh, no pressure, right? LOL. I would be happy if by the middle of 9th grade he can start Algebra.

Yes, I would much rather him 'get' it even if he is considered 'behind'. Than not get it and suffer for it as an adult.
Linda Mom to
Joshua 5/98, Annette 9/99, Caleb 9/00, Brent 10/01, Ethan 1/03, Lance 8/04
Currently using texbooks.


Our Blog http://training6hearts4him.blogspot.com

cbollin

Saxon - Placement lower than 8/7

Unread post by cbollin » Sun May 30, 2010 12:57 pm

ElizabethC wrote:Okay I need some advice here. My DD {who is going into the 8th grade} took the placement test for Saxon today. She didn't do too well on it at all. Math is a struggle for her. While in PS she was using an online program as an aid.

I honestly don't think she is ready for 8/7 math and the placement test shows that. So now I am not sure where to start. Since she didn't fair too well on the Saxon test at all would I switch to the Singapore to bring her up to speed? Or is there a Saxon with a lower grade level? Will this be hard to have her "catch" up? Any help or advice?
My advice would be to call the MFW office and talk with them on this for your situation. They do have a career math teacher on their staff to tap his brain for these kinds of things. I'm sure you're not the first person to call them with this kind of question for when a student is in 8th grade and placed below Saxon 8/7.

Singapore Primary Math is designed for up to 6th grade. Can it get used for incoming 8th grade to bring them up to speed? I don't know?! maybe?

MFW recommends Saxon starting in 7th grade. But if your daughter isn't ready for Saxon 8/7 and is in 8th grade, I would talk with MFW office for placement and advice and some longer term planning over the next couple of years.

Did she end up on the placement test in 7/6 like you were thinking she might? or was it lower?

-crystal
ElizabethC wrote:I will call them, I didn't think of that! :)

I thought to show how she did and maybe I didn't understand it? Before I jump to any conclusions, which is easy to do when I am not too sure what I am doing!

Questions 1-40 she got 32 right and 8 wrong.
Questions 41-60 she got 12 right and 8 wrong.
Questions 61- 80 she got 8 right and 12 wrong.
Questions 81-90 she got 4 right and 16 wrong.

I can see an obvious switch starting with questions 41, so maybe it wasn't as bad as I thought? The way I "think" I'm looking at it today is that she is 7/6?
I also interpret that score as she would use book 7/6. I could be wrong too.

I would consider doing math course even in summer. I don't know if that means Saxon 7/6 and keep working through, or if some other program would work better since she is probably in the middle of the topics in Saxon 7/6

Looking forward to hearing other opinions and advice.

-crystal

sarajoy
Posts: 37
Joined: Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:08 pm

Re: Math. Math. Math

Unread post by sarajoy » Sun May 30, 2010 3:50 pm

I agree with Crystal. I would recommend just stepping back a grade level...although I haven't seen this exact curriculum, yet. As a math teacher-by-degree, I would prefer a student have a better foundation and be "behind" according to some magic pie-in-the-sky grade level number than be forced to be at grade level and struggling. If they don't have a solid foundation in computation skills and general math skills high school math will be overwhelming. If she doesn't have her computation skills down, just focus on building those in first...without that the rest is painfully difficult.

Of course, I still highly recommend talking to MFW. They are wonderful at helping out with this kind of stuff. They never make you feel silly for calling. It is totally worth getting their take on this.

ElizabethC
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:23 pm

It's come back to... Math - Saxon lower levels vs Singapore

Unread post by ElizabethC » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:18 pm

Here we are again with math issues/questions/concerns.

I called the office. They were helpful. In fact, David called me himself and talked me through a couple of options. I am praying as to which way to go, however I thought I'd voice it on here to and see what suggestions anyone had as well!

With our situation it's unique in the fact that our DD is going into the 8th grade {I explained this on another thread as well} and didn't fair very well with the Saxon placement test. David suggested 2 options. The first being that she could do a lower Saxon math. The other is radical and life altering in SO many ways! He suggested testing her in Singapore, seeing where she is in that and starting where she is. Doing math 90+ minutes a day to get her basically in my own words, "unschooled" in the way that she knows and was taught math. David explained Singapore in depth with me and also shared that this was going to be a hard year for DD in math due to it all being a new way of everything within math. {by the way I am paraphrasing our conversation and what he stated as well as I am thankful that he called and talked to me about this, please don't think I am not grateful that he called!} but to get her up to speed and help her like math and learn in a whole new way, this was the way to go. It sounded so good!

But.. It made me truly think of our DD. I decided to do what David suggested as well, and ask her how she felt about her choices. She listened to both choices and said to me that it would be overwhelming for her now to learn a new way of thinking with math. Deep down I knew that. In fact, I envisioned horrible times trying to re-teach her {not that I don't agree with Singapore, I liked it from reading up on it}, however he said that she had to be committed as much as we were. Flat out, she said she couldn't handle it. She knows she struggles in math, we know she struggles in math. However with that being said, she loves to learn and knows that math is a necessary part of our journey and her learning. But she just isn't up for it at 13 going into the 8th grade.

So my issue is what to do? What math program do we do that will meet the needs of our family and still "teach" her the things she needs to know. She wants to go to college and knows that she will have to work extra hard in math to get there. But I want this year, since it is our very first year homeschooling, to be fun for her! I think learning can be fun!

But what does that mean? I feel like I am at the start of finding curriculum all over again and am stressed out! I love MFW and want to use their curriculum but with math I am not so sure where to go. Where to start, etc. The only thing I do know is that she doesn't want to commit to Singapore and she doesn't want to sit in front of a computer and learn math that way either.

I know that any of you cannot "fix" this or give me the correct answer either.. But does anyone have some advice? Suggestions? Just nuggets of thoughts? Stuff for me to chew on?

I really appreciate this a lot. Normally I'd go to hubs for this, as we'd decide together. But he is deployed and simply cannot make the time to decide. In fact, he told me that he trusts me to make the best choice for our DD and our family! I don't even trust myself in the math area at this time!!! :(

Thanks for listening!
Elizabeth

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu Jun 10, 2010 6:47 pm

Elizabeth,
I'm wondering whether your dd is okay with going back as far as she needs to in Saxon, or whether you are looking for other options? I don't think going back in math is ever a bad idea. A firm foundation will always help your student go ahead faster in the long run.

I feel for you, agonizing before you begin your first year. Even though I've been homeschooling for 8 years now, I agonized over geometry for next year, for some reason. But I wanted to tell you that whatever you decide to do, it will be okay. When my oldest dd came home to school, we started one algebra program and it didn't work, so I just called it "prealgebra" and we started over again for algebra.

Blessings as you think this thru,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

mgardenh
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2007 4:55 pm

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by mgardenh » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:56 pm

I don't know if this would be an option for you. What about a tutor for math? Have the tutor test her and work with the tutor, dd, and yourself to pick the best curriculum? Sounds like she needs help and you are unsure of yourself. If you can afford it being your first year homeschooling it might be helpful.
Mike
DH to Laurel
SAHD (mostly) to
Julia - 10 years old, Explorations to 1850
Alexis-7 years old, Explorations to1850 see her story at
http://www.caringbridge.org/visit/alexisg
Have used MFW, k, 1st, Adventures, and ECC, CTG, RtR

cbollin

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Jun 10, 2010 7:59 pm

I'm at a point right now if anyone asked me to do anything overwhelming, I'd be scared to try. My youngest has autism and gets intensive speech therapy with homework. She was so overwhelmed with one kind of homework sheets that she pleaded with her speech therapist yesterday "no more forest animal homework please?" So, my heart goes to your daughter. and I think if my youngest could say it, she's understanding the feeling of it all. Then again, I had to move to a new state and was overwhelmed and learned new things. Ok, my heart goes to your daughter on the overwhelming feeling.
I know that any of you cannot "fix" this or give me the correct answer either.. But does anyone have some advice? Suggestions? Just nuggets of thoughts? Stuff for me to chew on?
a few more thinking points on it.
If doing math in front of a computer is not good, how do you (Elizabeth) feel up to the task of you watching the DIVE cd and you teaching from the textbook in Saxon 7/6?

I know you said you don't trust your own ability to make the curriculum decision (because of overwhelming feelings) but if someone plopped one of them down and said "do this one", how do you feel about the teaching part and learning together?

You could try the Singapore placement test (just for fun to see where she'd end up). It would be interesting to know. I know the word problems will be interesting to wonder how to do that?
You could still teach Singapore or sit with her and try together. Some people use something called a home instructor's guide for Singapore to help with the lessons. It helps to see what to teach. The downside (not really) is that you want to make sure you know that you don't have to do everything in those guides to teach the material. It gives lots of stuff.

My thoughts are that no matter which materials you use, your daughter may really need a tutor/teacher/mom to sit with her and do math together one on one.

I remember from the first post my thoughts were along the same lines as what you've said David was saying about Singapore might really be such a different way to approach it all. part of me thought, if she's placing half way through Saxon 7/6, then start in 7/6 and enjoy the first part not being hard and teach and learn together.

Here's an idea. Try the placement test on Singapore. just for fun. where's she ending up?

also, did David give you a target ending level for Singapore before 9th grade?

-crystal

Fly2Peace
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:36 pm

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by Fly2Peace » Fri Jun 11, 2010 2:29 pm

and, just a thought.... Singapore is a different way to think about numbers, and brings the concrete and abstract parts of it much closer together, so I have learned a new way of doing and thinking about math, and have really enjoyed it, and wished I would have been taught this way from the beginning. This from a, well, we won't say how old homeschooling mom. :)

A question though, and you may have it in the other thread, and I am too lazy to go look today, what is her preferred style to learn? Is she visual / hands on? Or does she love to read, and learns easily from that? You mentioned sitting in front of a computer not being a good option, is that because of isolation, or some other reason?

What is her strongest subject, and why? Often people strong in writing / LA seem to struggle more in math / science, and vice versa. Not always the case, but a lot of time...
Just pondering some thoughts, and wanting more info. :)
Fly2Peace (versus flying to pieces)

ElizabethC
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by ElizabethC » Fri Jun 11, 2010 10:03 pm

My interests got the best of me, so we started to test last night just to see how she would do! :) So far she did well on 1A, 1B, 2A! Although she did struggle a little bit with doing math horizontal rather than vertical. She'll take more tomorrow. :)

She doesn't want to sit in front of the computer because she likes the computer for fun and it wouldn't be much fun to actually do work online. She does an extra math class online for PS and doesn't like it one bit.

She is very strong in LA/writing and interestingly enough science, which she loves. She is always writing stories, poems,etc. I think it is her strongest subject because she has a very vivid and wonderful imagination so she creates a lot of stories and such all the time. She loves to draw too. She loves to share everything she creates. She loves to read, a lot. But textbooks not so much. I think her reading level is about 11th-12th grade. She's been reading everything she can get her hands on and its really helped her vocabulary a lot too! A lot of the Progeny Press suggestions in the upper grades. We recently started reading some classics together. She loves hands on learning. She is also a visual learner.

She did tell me that Singapore could really help her with her mental math, which she felt like she needed more of. I thought that was interesting!

Fly2Peace
Posts: 79
Joined: Tue Jan 03, 2006 7:36 pm

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by Fly2Peace » Sat Jun 12, 2010 11:35 am

Alright, I probably shouldn't say this, but what about adding in Life of Fred books for reading to learn about math in a different sort of way for understanding higher math. Not as a main curriculum, but as a fun reading thing. I guess some libraries have them... they aren't too badly priced to buy. It is just a thought for a child that loves to read, but is struggling or behind in math, and would enjoy more reading than more math, even though more math might be needed.

It will be interesting to see what happens as she continues in the Singapore tests though. I am so glad we stuck with Singapore, even through some rough spots. We are moving to Saxon with the oldest this year, and it is good to have such a strong background in math going in. Let us know how she does as she continues!
Fly2Peace (versus flying to pieces)

gratitude
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by gratitude » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:03 pm

Hi! I felt your situation on my heart as I left my computer so I will try to give a few insights. My answer though doesn't come from being a homeschool mom, since my kids are very young, it comes from my math background (I had to take a lot for my degree), and 10 years of teaching piano.

Music, like math, builds on itself. If one step is missed the next doesn't come. If a lot of steps are missed, the missing steps may never fill in.

The hardest thing I ever had to tell parents is that the 5 years of piano they just paid for failed to teach their child the basics in reading music or playing the piano. I had 6th graders, 12 year olds, come to me who were at a 2nd year level for reading music, or lower. I had to start them over. I didn't have a choice. The good news was in 6 - 9 months those kids were so grateful! So were the parents. A 12 year old can learn very quickly. I would start over at usually about where my students would be sometime in their first 6 - 18 months of piano and take those kids in 1 year to where my students usually reached in the 4 th year of piano. In other words they would do 3 -4 years of piano in one year.

I think the same applies for math. She needs to start at whatever level she knows. It will be painful, but so worth it in the end. It will probably come very easily. I know my son does 4 pages a day, instead of 2; I am sure your dd could do more since she is older. Some pages you may be able to skip once she gets the concept. Test her up as you are able.

If it was me I would go back and build up. Singapore has a great program. Horizons is more like we learned in school. I haven't used Saxon.

Anyways, just some thoughts. I hope God leads you to a decision that brings His infinite peace.

P.S. I just read your final post, it sounds like you have found a great solution! :-) You might be amazed at how much she is able to catch up in one year. :)

cbollin

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Jun 14, 2010 2:20 pm

gratitude wrote: You might be amazed at how much she is able to catch up in one year. :)

after reading gratitude's post I was reminded of a post that David H shared 2 years ago. thought it might encourage with a math example of exactly what Carin "Gratitude" is sharing.
Today at the Ohio Convention I met a mom and her now 6th grader. Last year the child was in 5th grade and hated math. Everything they did was stressful. He made the switch to Singapore and tested back in 2A. Now in 18 months the child is finishing up 6a and 6b. He loves math and they are moving on Saxon 87.

FYI. Singapore works best when children are placed properly. Backing up can be the best thing that one can do the help a child move forward.

Blessings David

ElizabethC
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 27, 2010 10:23 pm

Re: It's come back to....

Unread post by ElizabethC » Mon Jun 14, 2010 6:15 pm

After praying about it and DD working through it we are going to do Singapore. She made it just fine all the way to 3B {she did okay in this but I feel like we should start here} so that is where we will start for the up and coming year. We'll try to do what David suggested and push forward in time and in the books {learning of course through it all and grasping the knowledge too} for this year to get her caught up as much as possible.

How exciting! I just bought 1/2 of the curriculum for next year!! :) Including 3A&3B in Singapore {Your post reminded me that going back is best to step forward!!}

I cannot tell you how much I really appreciate the support I've gotten on here. I feel so good about this choice and so does DD {and hubby even if he's across the ocean many miles away!}

Thank you everyone for your prayers, advice, and support! I cannot tell you that enough.

Elizabeth

cbollin

Saxon 7th grade question

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Jan 10, 2011 5:08 pm

BostonMom wrote:Hi-My 6th grade twins will be finishing up 5B in a few months and I'm looking ahead to what MFW recommends for 7th. I thought we would go to Singapore 6a and 6b, but it says in 7th they should move to Saxon 8/7. Has this worked well for all of you? Also, I have the opportunity to purchase Saxon Algebra 1/2 used from a friend, but not sure if we need that. Has anyone jumped from 5B to Algebra 1/2, or is 8/7 a better jump from 5b? With a strong Singapore background, will they likely need Algebra 1/2 after 8/7, or just a jump to Algebra 1? Thanks for any input!
My oldest daughter started Singapore 4B in the middle of 5th grade and ended up finishing Singapore 6B before the end of 6th grade! Eeek! I still had months to go! What to do? What to do? Well, I called MFW office and they were still evaluating the path.

So, not willing to wait (I mean... she's smart, and I thought , she must do math, right?), well uhm... She took the placement test and this is what happened from there. She placed into Saxon Algebra I. Bells went off in my head screaming at me "don't do it Crystal. don't. no don't."

I decided that it really was no need to start her in Algebra I in 7th grade.
So, I thought, ok. let's just buy Alg 1/2 then, start very very slowly at end of 6th grade,.....
Well, we started it, and after 20 lessons, I realized that having my advanced near the end of 6th grade daughter in an average 8th grade math program was not a very wise move on my part. you see, I ended up learning that with the edition of Saxon that MFW sells, SAxon 8/7 is the prealgebra, and Alg. 1/2 is students who complete 8/7 and really need one more year before starting Algebra. ah ha!

So, we put away the math for a while, and she did a lot of cross stitch and sold the crafts on an online auction to benefit a missionary.

Well, fall came around, and now she's 13 (due to a sept. birthday) and 7th grade. I sat down with myself and said "ok Saxon 8/7 is for advanced 7th graders. Let's use it."

Results: she wasn't stressed in math. well,,, there were some days was she was stressed in math, but usually that was just because of her age and emotions and hormones.

It got right immediately into the "gaps" between programs. Singapore Primary doesn't really do much with negative numbers, or prob/stats, and I think it was something with percentages. So, that was early in Saxon 8/7. She learned it, and also learned that she could do math the Singapore way as well as learning the other way in Saxon. I was glad to use 8/7 to help her learn to learn from DIVE and work on her own.

At end of 8/7, she was ready to do Alg I in Saxon in 8th grade, and in 9th is doing very well in Jacob's Geometry. I would evaluate the need for Alg 1/2 vs. Alg 1 near the end of 7th grade. If the student is easily getting 80% or higher on tests and homework without tons of do over's, more than likely they are the group who skips Alg 1/2.

so, that's my experience.
My middle gal is in 6th grade, and we hope to finish 5B before fall and she (even though she's average math kid) will go into Saxon 8/7. From using 6A and 6B with oldest, I know that there aren't tons of new concepts taught that aren't touched on in SAxon 8/7, and that 6A and 6B are plenty of "challenging word problems", so I'm comfortable making the jump even with my average student to Saxon 87

just one very long answer.
-crystal

LSH in MS
Posts: 208
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:26 am

Re: Saxon 7th grade question

Unread post by LSH in MS » Wed Jan 12, 2011 9:08 pm

My oldest 2 did Singapore 5A and B in 6th grade and went straight to Saxon 8/7 in 7th. My oldest is now doing Algebra 1 in 8th and is doing fine. my 7th grader is struggling a little bit in 8/7 so he is going back to doing all of the problems. I am going to take it slow with him and go over it as much as needed until he gets it. If it takes him a year and a half to complete it so be it. I hope to have him go straight into Alg 1 after that but we'll see. I would prefer he go a little slower through Alg 1 than to buy Algrbra 1/2 but i will evaluate as we get closer.
Lori

wife to Clifford, mother to ds (17), ds (16), ds (15, ds (13), ds (8), and ds (3)
MFW user for 10 years

MFW-Lucy

Saxon Math

Unread post by MFW-Lucy » Wed Jul 18, 2012 2:05 pm

OklahomaJamie wrote:I notice that you have Saxon 8/7 as the earliest Saxon material. I am going to do the placement test on my son and I am afraid he probably won't be in the 8/7 level yet (he will be in the 7th grade). He did Teaching Textbooks last year. He has never done Singapore. If I should have to get a lower level Saxon, will there be a teaching guide for it to go along with MFW?
Dear Oklahoma Jaime,

Thank you for your question. Once he has completed the test please call our office to speak with us about his level and where to start from there. We do have suggestion for 7th graders who test below the 8/7 level, but like to help give personal counseling to each family. Please ask for Bret or Lucy when calling our office at 573-202-2000.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Lucy

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

child's age vs. math level - finishing Singapore early

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Jul 08, 2016 8:06 am

carissaen wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:44 pm
I have recently started MFW Exploring Countries and Cultures and it is going well. My question is in regard to moving from Singapore to Saxon.

We have always done Singapore Math and my soon-to-be 9 y/o began Level 5B in April. I am wondering if going to Saxon 8/7 will be too difficult simply given his age or do I only need to consider his math skills in making this decision. I know each child is different so I wanted to get some feedback from those of you who have already gone down this road. Thank you for your input!
After 5B, go ahead with 6 A/B, since your student won't be in 7th grade yet. Make sure he's doing the whole program - textbook as well as workbook, even tho it's easy for him. And be sure he has his math facts memorized.

After that, he should be ready for the transition to Saxon, but if you're worried, then you could see how he does on the placement test then. It's on the MFW website.

The biggest jump that year, to me, will be in time spent, building those math endurance muscles. For mathy kids, Singapore elementary was likely short and sweet most days. Upper maths, no matter which program you use, become longer and longer math days. If your student is still in elementary, you might decide to start out a little slowly, taking longer for each lesson?

The biggest jump in math "thinking," though, to me, will be when he starts Algebra, which is more abstract thinking. Just be alert when you get there. I've seen a few kids dive into Algebra in 6th or 7th grade, but in my observation, the mind is more ready at 8th.

Does that help you see what's ahead? I hope others chime in with their experiences.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Christy - Staff
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:09 pm

Re: child's age vs. math level

Unread post by Christy - Staff » Mon Jul 11, 2016 7:13 am

HI!
Welcome to our board. Looks like Julie gave you lots to think about.

Julie is right -- our math advisor explained to us that algebra can't be rushed. Brains seem to need to reach a certain developmental point. Even kids who are doing great in math may hit a brick wall if they begin algebra too soon. So just keep that in mind in the years to come.

Homeschooling can be tough, so we hope you'll join us often for encouragement, answers, and community.
Christy Callahan - MFW Customer Service Team Lead
Wife to Mike (homeschooling dad)
Mom to 5 blessings and foster mom to many

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