Independence - Nervous about 7th grader and independent learning...

Issues specific to teaching 6th to 8th graders, including the transition to Saxon math, Apologia science, Progeny Press guides, and grammar lessons
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cbollin

Independence - Nervous about 7th grader and independent lear

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Aug 01, 2008 7:43 am

Winni wrote:My up-and-coming 7th grade girl will be doing Apologia General Science and Saxon 8/7 pretty much on her own this year. Does this really work out? What if she gets really stumped on something? Do any of you just learn right along with (or just ahead of) them, anyway, just in case?
Right now (a whole 2 weeks into it....) I'm still seeing this as transition time toward it all. Lots of mommy strings still there checking in -- how you doing? are you stuck? still moving along? and what are you learning anyway?

Now a lot of those "what are you learning anyway" moments are done while we cook supper or something.

I'm definitely skimming the text with math so that I'm not just grading papers. I want to at least know what is in the book.

And with the Apologia stuff -- she sometimes needs my computer for that multimedia companion CD so I get to watch too ;) and we decided that for right now, I'm taking the one or two minutes to do the Apologia "On Your Own" thinking questions with her. I ask the question and listen for her answer (answers are in the book, but that way I hear what she's doing.) Or sometimes her dad will do those with her.

and that same style of me ask the questions and listen for her answer is working with Progeny Press guides too.

-crystal

p.s. I'm nervous too :)

hsmom3
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Unread post by hsmom3 » Fri Aug 01, 2008 9:48 am

We're in our fourth week of school and my 7th grader ds is doing the Apologia general science. I've been sitting with him and we take turns reading. I know it's supposed to be independent work but there's no way I could hand him this book and have him do it on his own right now. There are alot of words that he can't pronounce and doesn't know the meaning of either. He did not do well on his first test, either. I was very surprised. So this week I started having him narrate to me after a page or two of reading just so I know he's understanding it. I'm hoping to eventually work our way to him doing this independently but right now there's no way he could handle it. So just from my experience, I wouldn't just hand the child the book the first day of school and let them go. I think it's a process that will take a little time.

Hope this helps!

cbollin

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Aug 02, 2008 7:38 pm

sewardmom wrote:Hi Crystal,
Since my daughter will be starting this soon...
Is your daughter enjoying the independence?

Also, are you monitoring how much time she spends on it, or at this point is she just following the time recommended by MFW?
~Terri
liking it? yeah... she's had to do more independent stuff for a while due to life. In fact... y'all laugh with me a bit. Oldest is using the older manual that we have from ECC way back when and going through the stuff on her own right now because she doesn't need to wait for middle kid. So, we're using 2 manuals. didn't plan for that --just worked that way today.

time wise: Ask me again in a few weeks. We're not in a full schedule yet. I have no idea how much time we're taking to get a full day done. I know she will not be done in 4 hours. That's not going to happen.

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Wondering what other 7th graders are capable of doing on the

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:05 pm

cdavis762 wrote:I have a 12 year old son who we just pulled out of the public school system last April. I have spent all fall trying to see where is academically. We started off with the Progeny Press and are finished w/ that now. I have him on Applications of Grammar.

Should he be able to do this on his own? Or is this something I need to be sitting down with him and going through together? He is not 'getting' it and most of his answers are incorrect, even though the answers and explanations are in the book. Just wondering what other 7th graders are capable of doing on their own.
My 7th grader is doing the easier book MFW uses for 7th graders, called All-In-One English. I wonder if you might want to consider stepping back to that?

I'm weaning my own son from complete teacher dependence in All-In-One, but he does need a teacher. I think reading grammar instructions sometimes feels like the teacher in Charlie Brown, wasn't it, who just sounded like she was saying WahWahWah.

One thing I've done is highlight the instructions that are very important, to get him to stop & really look at those.

I agree that the first year of homeschooling is often a matter of figuring out what your kids' strengths & weaknesses are. And sometimes you learn that by just sitting alongside the child as he does something. The way my child looks at things is often totally different than I would ever have imagined!
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: Wondering what other 7th graders are capable of doing

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:22 pm

cdavis762 wrote:Just wondering what other 7th graders are capable of doing on their own.
It will vary!! My oldest is in 7th grade. But she's been homeschooled the whole time and slowly has been building up to doing more on her own. She is capable of doing a lot of things on her now

I agree with Julie that you might consider coming back to Applications of Grammar in 8th grade. That's a tough book to start out for learning the ropes of independent learning for a student who is new to homeschooling too.

quoting my 7th grader: "it's not a mindless workbook. you have to think in this one. I don't want to think. I want to go stuff envelopes for the CPC's December fund raiser."

There are times in App of Gr that I have to go over it with her. I expect her to read it first, then if she is having trouble trying it, she asks. (or throws a fit first and then asks. :-o)

It combines grammar and logic together. I tend to grab the answer key and go over it. This week we took 2 days to do a unit review instead of just one day.

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Scheduling Independent Work for 12yo EXP-1850

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:45 pm

purepraisemom wrote:New to MFW, coming from a different weekly grid lit program and trying to adjust:)

Okay - so I thought I could give my daughter a weekly schedule (she requested this) and she'd know what to read/do independently even if I wasn't immediately available.
With our former curriculum, I could literally let her look at the schedule to know what to do but MFW has part of the "schedule" in the notes and that is probably too much to hand her at once.

i.e. Boy Have I Got Problems has the title written in the grid but the actual pages are written in the Notes following.

What have you come up with - I guess the obvious is to type/write it up for older children but that does get time consuming (I tried it last night=tedious) so I'm hoping for a simpler idea :) I think someone mentioned post-its in another post - that might work too.
You can do this in high school, but in the middle years it seems like a lot of things you are doing together, so handing them the manual would mean they have to figure out what to do on their own vs. what to wait and do together?

I used a marker board and it didn't change that much from day to day, but it was easy enough to wipe off one thing and change it to something else. Generally, it looked something like this:

- Finish your math problems
- Read a chapter
- Copy your verse
- Write/edit your notebook page (for history or classical music or whatever)
- Read (one of the Usborne-type science or history books)
- Book basket
- Do your grammar exercise (or PP guide)
- Finish your drawing
- Prep for your outside activity
- etc.

P.S. Some more ideas might be on this thread: http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 7&start=25
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Fly2Peace
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Re: Scheduling Independent Work for 12yo EXP-1850

Unread post by Fly2Peace » Mon Apr 25, 2011 8:32 am

I have started using wet erase markers to make a semi-permanent list, and then dry erase to fill in and checkoff. It is quick and easy to use. They also get a weekly assignment sheet though, that has all independent work, pages etc. listed. The white board includes chores and assignments in a more generic sense. So, white board might say Bible, Memory verse, while assignment sheet gives specific reference.
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Pylegang
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Re: Scheduling Independent Work for 12yo EXP-1850

Unread post by Pylegang » Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:43 am

How about holding a 10 minute morning meeting together? This could be the time when you kook at the TM and have your daughter make her own notes on what you want her to do that day. These middle school years are a great time to get kids used to taking notes or following a simple schedule/list. You could go over any thing that you want her to work on independently. Or maybe take more AM time to introduce material so you can get her going on her independent work.

For the most part, I think MFW lessons are meant to be done as a family. We do Bible, science, history, art, music, and read aloud together.
--Angela
Homeschooling classically since 2000--DS grade 6 and DS grade 4.


Fly2Peace
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Re: Scheduling Independent Work for 12yo EXP-1850

Unread post by Fly2Peace » Tue Apr 26, 2011 11:44 am

I agree that much of MFW is done together, reading for Bible, much of history (although not all when you have two that are several years apart), etc.

However, I have them work on math, memory verses, English, writing, history notebook pages, science notebook pages, spelling (using Spelling power list on Spelling City) either together, or independently. Their choice. Same on chores. They can do them together as a team, or independently. Those are the things I have on the white board. I also have things like 15 minutes of Flashmaster or Quarter Mile math, and sometimes an optional project, like Mike's Inspiration DVD art lesson, which they can choose to do above and beyond regular work or not.
Fly2Peace (versus flying to pieces)

purepraisemom
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Re: Scheduling Independent Work for 12yo EXP-1850

Unread post by purepraisemom » Wed Apr 27, 2011 10:48 pm

Thank you for all your great suggestions!

As I am only using MFW with one child right now, we went with a daily checklist on paper in a box with the necessary materials. This has worked very well because our house tends to be cluttered and with 5 kids' worth of school stuff around, she really likes the simplicity and order of her things being in their own box.

I love that we know when we're done for the day/week and we can actually finish her school work in a reasonable amount of time.

Next week, we'll find out how we do once we've added Bible and Spelling into the mix:)
new to MFW 2011
homeschooling since 1999

hsm
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developing a 7th grader's independence

Unread post by hsm » Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:59 pm

I am looking ahead to next year when my rising 7th grader will be expected to start working more independently. She is not a very independent learner. She wants me to be with her the whole time she does school. She needs a lot of direct instruction. I do not mind doing this to be honest but I know I need to start nudging her along in the direction of independence. She will be doing the 7th grade recommendations (science, math, progeny press) and I think (correct me if I am wrong) they are geared toward the student to foster independence. How/when did your child start to work toward this goal. I don't intend to leave her to her own devices right off the bat but I want to encourage some independence and self starting skills so that when we get to high school she is better prepared for the work load/expectations. I know that children mature at different rates and there is a long time between 7th and high school but if any seasoned homeschoolers here can give me some pointers that would be great. This is my dawdler that has some challenges that make independence a little more difficult (at least for now). I thought about workboxes for her independent work. She is very visual but doesn't do well with a student planner. She often forgets to write things down or mark things off. we are working on this. Any suggestions? Or anyone else's child still need a lot of hand holding at this age?
Lori-IL
K/ECC, CtG/Learning God's Story
dd-12, dd-9, ds-6

TriciaMR
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Re: developing a 7th grader's independence

Unread post by TriciaMR » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:39 am

hsm wrote:I am looking ahead to next year when my rising 7th grader will be expected to start working more independently. She is not a very independent learner. She wants me to be with her the whole time she does school. She needs a lot of direct instruction. I do not mind doing this to be honest but I know I need to start nudging her along in the direction of independence. She will be doing the 7th grade recommendations (science, math, progeny press) and I think (correct me if I am wrong) they are geared toward the student to foster independence.

How/when did your child start to work toward this goal. I don't intend to leave her to her own devices right off the bat but I want to encourage some independence and self starting skills so that when we get to high school she is better prepared for the work load/expectations. I know that children mature at different rates and there is a long time between 7th and high school but if any seasoned homeschoolers here can give me some pointers that would be great. This is my dawdler that has some challenges that make independence a little more difficult (at least for now). I thought about workboxes. She is very visual but doesn't do well with a student planner. She often forgets to write things down or mark things off. we are working on this. Any suggestions? Or anyone else's child still need a lot of hand holding at this age?
Lori,
My oldest is in 8th grade this year. She is dyslexic, so she probably needs more hand-holding than other 8th graders.

When in 7th, I started her a couple of weeks before my boys. We got into routines and habits. I did Science, Math, and Language Arts with her. As she gained confidence, I backed off. It was a very gradual thing. I checked (and still check) her work daily. I print off a sheet that has her daily assignments. We go over them together at the end of the day. Now, in 8th grade she does science by herself (unless there is a lot of math or a science experiment) and Language Arts (except Spelling - we use All About Spelling, so that's teacher intensive) by herself. We're in ECC this year, so she is now doing the Country Summary Reports by herself (but at the beginning of the year we did the first 2 or 3 together), the Geography worksheets by herself (but, again, the first set or set and a half, we did together), Spanish by herself, etc.

Math is the one subject that we do together still. I read the lesson to her, work the examples on the board, and sit with her while she does the problems, checking her work along the way. (Sounds like the DIVE CD, but she needs to see a person.) We set a timer for 1 hour, and then stop (that's about all she can do in a day of math, which makes it challenging when there is lots of math in science!).

Work on it gradually. Start with one thing to do independently. Then another. I've been amazed to see the growth in her this last year.
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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Joyhomeschool
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Re: developing a 7th grader's independence

Unread post by Joyhomeschool » Thu Mar 06, 2014 11:52 am

If you read your teachers manual about 7th grade it helps a lot. You sit down and teach them how to schedule their work using the table of contents in their grammar and PP guides. Saxon math guide is geared toward them being independent already. Writing strands is meant to be read to them and spelling is done together if they are still doing spelling.

As I sat with her to plan her course My dd really took off! She enjoys it! I found the transition pretty easy as we had already been doing some of it. Like I read my kids assignment and send them to do the work, then come back to show its finished. By the end of her 6th grade she was reading to her self and showing me her work, so she was excited to be doing more of her own planning and the like.
Vicki
Homeschooling my 7,
2018/2019 1st, EXP, AHL, US 2

hsm
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Re: developing a 7th grader's independence

Unread post by hsm » Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:57 am

Thank you both for those ideas. I will be sure to have a sit down at the beginning of the year to make a plan with her. And, I like the idea of slowly adding things in and starting her earlier than the other two. Great ideas, thank you!
Lori-IL
K/ECC, CtG/Learning God's Story
dd-12, dd-9, ds-6

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