PP - (Progeny Press) - Users describe, answer ?s, share idea

Issues specific to teaching 6th to 8th graders, including the transition to Saxon math, Apologia science, Progeny Press guides, and grammar lessons
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kellybell
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PP - (Progeny Press) - Users describe, answer ?s, share idea

Unread post by kellybell » Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:21 pm

Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006

My oldest had a library book for My Side of the MOuntain and couldn't write in it and now I can see where it would be good to mark up a book or highlight things. So, from now on, we're going to make sure we get a cheap paperback copy of the novel and let the child mark it up as needed.

cbollin

Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Aug 03, 2009 9:33 pm

8shininglights wrote:This is my first year with MFW, and I will be doing ECC with my grade 7 and 5 daughters (and some with my grade 1 son). It says to do 2 Progeny Press books (I have not physically seen them) for my grade 7 daughter. The recommendation is Anne of Green Gables and The Swiss Family Robinson. My daughter has already read these books, so would it be better to do two different books? Would you have some recommendations that would work well with ECC?

Thanks!
Lisa
Lisa,

This is the first year that MFW made specific suggestions of books for Progeny press guides. Last year, my then 7th grade daughter did 2 guides. One of the books was a book she had read when she was in 5th grade for fun reading. But it was fun to do a study guide on the book 2 years later.
The other book was the first time she read it.

so it worked ok for us to repeat a book with the guide.

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Aug 03, 2009 11:18 pm

Lisa,
I think for 7th graders, it's a transition year & anything would be okay. I think Island of the Blue Dolphins might fit, although I haven't used it. You might have your dd just pick two if you don't have a strong preference. Ask her whether she'd like a re-do or something new.

Studying a piece of literature in more depth is what it's all about, so re-doing a book would be perfectly acceptable to me. And knowing that someone (the Hazells) liked a particular guide is very helpful, since the guides are written by different people and are not all the same.

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Julie in MN
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Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Aug 04, 2009 12:10 am

8shininglights wrote:Thank you for that thought, Julie. I have never used them before, nor have I seen them. How much time does it take to go through one? Do they do a lot of writing as they work through it, or is it orally done?
Oh, you must take a peek at the samples! Here is Anne:
http://stores.progenypress.com/anne-of- ... udy-guide/

All of them that I have seen follow a similar pattern --
- read a group of chapters
- do some vocabulary work from those chapters (different methods for different chapters)
- answer some basic questions
- answer some thinking questions
- answer some Biblical or moral questions
- optional activities may be given once or twice or more in each guide

I had my ds do these in pencil. That's kinda funny, considering I did almost all of PLL/ILL orally, and ds typed almost everything else. On the other hand, I think Crystal did sections of PP orally, and she usually has her kids do more writing than I do. So you see that it's flexible.

The main thing is to start transitioning in 7th grade towards more independence, more writing, and so forth. Crystal was doing a lot more of that in math & science than I was, so I did the transitioning more in the PP & Grammar area. It's all good :) Just get started. And remember that your child will do a lot of growing between age 12 (at the beginning of 7th grade) and age 14 (at the end of 8th). Don't try to change everything at once, but on the other hand don't hold back on everything, either.

That's my 2 cents for the day!
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:43 am

Julie summarized what I did. Typically, the parts that we did out loud together were called "thinking about the story" and "digging deeper". We treated those as discussion. Other parts she did on her own and wrote the answers.

Sometimes we did the extra assignments when it made sense to do them for my child. For example, a couple of weeks ago, in Witch of Blackbird Pond, there was a writing assignment in ch. 1-3 where you write a short essay to explain why you had certain first impressions of a character. Earlier in the section you just wrote it in a few phrases, then in this assignment you take the time to put it into paragraph with supporting evidence from the story. I thought - now that's a good assignment for her to learn that skill.

-crystal

LA in Baltimore
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Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by LA in Baltimore » Tue Aug 04, 2009 3:48 pm

Crystal and Julie,
Where were you girls in 2004 when my oldest was heading into 7th grade?! !!
You both have a gift for summarizing any homeschooling question that is thrown out there!
As I sat here reading your replies, I realized how true it was that the rising 7th grader becomes a completely different student by the time they finish 8th grade (or maybe 9th ;)) as far as independent learning goes. Keep the great advice coming! :-)
Only by His grace,
LA in Baltimore
Currently enjoying Rome to the Reformation
Graduated oldest May 2010, Three more to go!

8shininglights
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Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by 8shininglights » Wed Aug 05, 2009 6:21 am

You have all been so helpful!!! I am still trying to understand this! How long does it take to go through a book study? Have you ever done more than 2 in a year? I appreciated the site that showed some sample pages of Anne of Green Gables. It got me excited!!!! I think when you have been doing a curriculum that is so "fact based", you realise how much you have stressed the facts, and all the thinking skills have gone out the door!!! It will actually be a big change for my kids!

Well, I am heading to bed as you all wake up. I will think this through some more and I might have some more questions!!!

Lisa
Wife to my BEST Friend, Roger, for 22 years!
Blessed Mother of Victoria (20), David (19), Anna (16), Elisabeth (14), Rebecca (12), and Daniel (8)!!!!

cbollin

Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:03 am

One of the reasons MFW recommends doing 2 Progeny Press guides is to give the other "language arts" time in the year to have a full grammar study, as well as giving time for other reading to happen. (and of course all of the other language arts that is going on in the school year too)

I did 2 of them last year, plus all of the 7th/8th grade missionary biographies from ECC, plus book basket time. so, my daughter got lots of reading time. I thought doing 2 books for detailed study was good.

how long did it take to do a study guide? 4-6 weeks of school time? I guess we did 3-4 days per week. I just went through them. She read the books (or at least got a little bit ahead in reading) before starting the study.

this year, because we finished our grammar unit, we're going to try to do more than just 2 guides. But not sure how it will pan out. We started one of the guides in July, while packing and moving.... keep working in it. [see end of story below]

Posted Wed Apr 07, 2010 6:51 pm by cbollin
I'm sure some of us can share what we did...

This year in CTG... Basically, my kiddo(not much of a kiddo these days though...) did Grammar when it said English on the Grid. (in our specific case it was reviewing Applications of Grammar and doing the test booklet this year, as she didn't do the tests last year with that book in ECC. ask if you want to know more).

and then scheduled in Progeny Press guides during "reading time" on the grid. We aimed for about one PP guide per semester, I think. Then the other weeks of the year, we used Reading Time for reading novels, classics, more things from book basket -- and just used narration techniques and chit chatting about the books.

Postby cbollin » Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:13 pm
oh boy. I wrote that 3 days after we moved. We only did 2 Progeny Press guides and I was just fine with that. Did I really think I'd do an extra one? what was I thinking? blush.
-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:13 am

8shininglights wrote: I am still trying to understand this! How long does it take to go through a book study? Have you ever done more than 2 in a year?
You know, that's a good question so I went back & counted. Last year, my 7th grader spent --

-- 8 weeks on grammar through the verbs (p. 57)
-- 8 weeks on the 1st guide
-- 7 weeks on grammar
-- 9 weeks on the 2nd guide

I will add that --

-- the 1st semester was fairly relaxed, with an easier Progeny Press book & easier grammar (nouns, verbs, etc), and we ended up skipping the pre-tests so that saved us some time
-- the second semester was much more intense with doing grammar or book study pretty much daily without the "light Fridays" we were used to, a longer book to study, doing more grammar exercises per day (up to 4 by the end of the year), and with more "teaching" and "corrections" (keeping adjectives & adverbs straight, etc.); it wasn't "really hard" but just a step up (he couldn't just "wing it")
-- this was for a boy who doesn't like to read (which I like to contrast with Crystal, 'cause she has a girl who likes to read); my son did almost all of it with a pencil (not orally) and fairly independently (but this was where I chose to focus his growing independence, and he wasn't as independent in math and science as other 7th graders might be)
-- during the book study, he read the chapters as he went; on days when he was caught up (and during the grammar study months), he also read every day from other books

Julie
Last edited by Julie in MN on Wed Aug 05, 2009 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

8shininglights
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Location: Victoria, Australia

Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by 8shininglights » Wed Aug 05, 2009 5:28 pm

Thanks for all your help everyone!!! I think I will just stick with MFW recommendations even though she had read the books. It will probably help since "I" am also familiar with Anne of Green Gables. I will be able to discuss this much better because of that.

As much as I am not new to home schooling............I am definitely "new" to all the different ideas and curriculum. I have been stuck in my own little "ABeka world" for 13 years! I am seeing more and more how much my kids know facts, but they really don't know how to talk through their ideas. We can become so overwhelmed with doing all the workbooks, that I have really done a poor job on the "thinking" questions. When we are doing English and they have been working for an hour to get their spelling, grammar, and reading done.....well..........we tend to rush the writing or the essay questions.

I am looking forward to changing our emaphasis!!!! I am also ready to "teach" my kids!!

Thanks!

Lisa
Wife to my BEST Friend, Roger, for 22 years!
Blessed Mother of Victoria (20), David (19), Anna (16), Elisabeth (14), Rebecca (12), and Daniel (8)!!!!

4Truth
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Re: Progeny Press/ECC/Year 7

Unread post by 4Truth » Thu Aug 06, 2009 12:58 pm

I don't think it hurts at all to have them do the lit study guides for a book they've already read. Usually the first time through is just "reading", anyway, and not a lot of thinking it through. And usually for pure enjoyment. Going through it again with the study guide makes it take on a whole new purpose.
Donna, with two MFW graduates and the "baby" in 9th grade! %| Using MFW since 2004.

dhudson
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Progeny Press guides

Unread post by dhudson » Fri Jan 28, 2011 2:00 pm

IdahoGrown wrote:We have never used guides like this before. My question is, what exactly do these guides do? Are they comprehension questions? (I really have no idea!) Lol!
They are more than comprehension questions. There is literature analysis, literary devices, Biblical application, vocabulary and more that I can't think of right now. I was really impressed with the Progeny Press guides that we used. My son learned tons and really delved into the meaning of the books.
God Bless,
Dawn
http://www.shiningexamples.blogspot.com
blessed Mom of three - 16, 13 & 13
happy user of MFW since 2002

Melissa
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Progeny Press-Grading?

Unread post by Melissa » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:01 pm

CharleneHoell wrote:My ds is going to be in 7th grade this year. He would much rather type on the computer than write in a book, so I am going to get the interactive CD-Roms that Progeny Press sells.

How do I evaluate his work? How have others handled this? :~ I know there is an answer key that comes with the CD (we did one this past year so he could get used to it), but I was wondering how much to expect from him?

His answers this past year were very brief. I kept telling him that there was a reason for a large box-they wanted a lengthy in depth answer. He would often do the questions alone and then we both sat down together to go over the answers. I would put sticky notes on the ones he needed to change or add to. I just didn't know if anyone had found a different/better way to do it. What I do seems very time consuming, but he is new at the literary analysis stuff, so maybe it is supposed to be time consuming on my part. Thanks for your input!
I printed out all the pages from the CD for my daughter to answer in pencil. It comes with answers, so I'd assume you print those out so you can read his work on the computer after he's finished answering the questions from that section.

You'll probably have to make notes on paper for him for areas if his answer doesn't match or alternatively, you could print out his typed answers and make notes on the printed pages for him.

Hope that makes sense.

Melissa

Julie in MN
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Re: Progeny Press-Grading?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:51 pm

We had the printed PP guides, but my son does most of his work on the computer and like Melissa, I sometimes print his work out. Then I add comments & scoring. Another way I do it is to write my comments on his page on the computer. I change my font to a in a different color. Also, I will usually save a copy in my draft file or print a copy so I can check back and see if I feel satisfied with his changes.

As far as letter grades, I didn't give those until high school. But I think it would be fairly easy to give a point value to each question. Each guide is different, but I start with one point for something, and then make a question worth more if there were more parts to it. Then I add 'em up, and once I have a final score I can give a percentage. e.g. If he got 25 out of 30, then that would be 83% (or 83 out of 100), which I admit I do on my computer :) Then at our house we count 90-100% as an A, and so on.

Many of my son's answers were short, too. One of the guides we used had a lot of simple comprehension questions (not a MFW recommended one), and I wasn't all that worried about those. If there was a good question and I didn't feel he answered it adequately, I wrote a note in pen and gave it back to him for corrections, kinda like in math.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: Progeny Press-Grading?

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Jun 24, 2011 10:02 pm

I usually did 2 sentences and considered that lengthy for writing on some questions. If she wanted to say more in discussion she could. But sometimes there isn't a lot to say on some questions. I wouldn't interpret box size to indicate depth or length. I think they just allow space to hand write.

When my oldest did PP guides, she did vocab on her own. Question (that was basic recall) on her own. I even let her uses sentence fragments. I just opened one she did... "Why is it difficult for Ragear to think for himself when he is away from Cluny?" her answer: because he is used to having Cluny think for him.
(I gave full credit for that)

those sections I pretty much graded by answer key. short answers, to the point was fine with me.

Then for discussion time:
The sections called Thinking about the Story: she'd write answers, and then we'd discuss out loud together. I figured if she expanded upon the sentences, it was good. Dig deeper sections: she made little bullet point notes for discussion out loud with me unless she had something really long to say and wanted to write more. But, 2 sentences is plenty, wasn't it? I guess I went for quality and to the point instead of quantity and drag it out?

but then again, I don't have sons. I might see how it goes in a few weeks with my middle gal who is started Blackbird Pond soon. She just read/listened on audio cd the whole book.

-crystal

GLPerky
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Progeny Press Study Guides

Unread post by GLPerky » Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:29 pm

my3sons wrote:Can anyone tell me more about these?

My soon to be 7th grader is taking an online [writing] class through them and I do not want to overwhelm him as he does not enjoy writing. Are these primarily a writing tool or a literature study?

Thank you! :)
We have only done one study and it was a Lit. Study. They read the whole book and then go back and answer questions on each chapter. There is vocabulary too. HTH

my3sons
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Re: Progeny Press Study Guides

Unread post by my3sons » Sun Apr 14, 2013 5:40 am

That helps. Thank you! :)
Mom to all boys, ages 15, 13, 11, 5 and 1


2014-2015 - ECC
Previously completed K - 1850 to Modern Times

mdarce
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Re: Progeny Press Study Guides

Unread post by mdarce » Sun Apr 14, 2013 6:20 pm

Hi! My 7th grader uses IEW and completed one PP lit guide. I don't feel it was overwhelming, but she is an avid reader. Some of the PP ( like story questions) can also be done orally if too much writing is an issue :)
She only did the one this year being our first year of doing any kind of lit analysis.
Blessings!

jasntas
Posts: 471
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: Progeny Press Study Guides

Unread post by jasntas » Sun Apr 14, 2013 9:19 pm

I purchased and used a pp guide with my 6th grader this year so he and I would have a better idea of what to expect next year. We did almost the entire guide verbally. My 3rd grader sat in and answered the questions with us. (She actually answered the questions very well. I was surprised with her.)

Both my dc are dyslexic and the writing in the guide would have been too much for my ds but I think for the average student it wouldn't be bad. I purchased the CD ROM version which I think would be great for a student that can type fairly well.

We all actually enjoyed the thought provoking questions. I guess I didn't realize the guide was to be used after the reading of the book because I read the appropriate questions after I read aloud each 2 chapters. We used The Door in the Wall guide.

In the study guide we used there was only one short essay question. It asked for the student to write a short essay on the meaning of the title of the book. Mostly the guide only asks for one or two sentence answers to the questions which could be done verbally. Many questions are multiple choice or definitions where you write your definition and then you look up the dictionary definition and write it which, again could be done verbally. There were also fact or fiction questions and metaphor or simile questions where the student makes the determination whether or not a sentence is fact or fiction or a metaphor or simile. We didn't do any of the pre-reading activities. You can see a few sample pages of the study we used on christianbook.com.

HTH
Tammie - Wife to James for 27 years
Mom to Justin (15) and Carissa (12)
ADV & K 2009-2010 . . . RTR (again) & WHL 2016-2017
http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/
The days of a mother are long but the years are short.

Mommyto3boys
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Re: Progeny Press Study Guides

Unread post by Mommyto3boys » Mon Apr 15, 2013 12:23 pm

I use the questions after my son has read the chapter. He does the vocab and first set of questions on his own. I just check his work on those sections. Then we discuss the thinking deeper questions orally about once a week.

Debbie in NC
Mom to 3 ds (14, 11, and 8) and 1 dd (6)

Kelly1730
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 2:22 pm

Re: Progeny Press Study Guides

Unread post by Kelly1730 » Tue Apr 16, 2013 12:32 pm

Mommyto3boys wrote:I use the questions after my son has read the chapter. He does the vocab and first set of questions on his own. I just check his work on those sections. Then we discuss the thinking deeper questions orally about once a week.
This is how I approached it with my 11yo sons this year. We did " The Sign of the Beaver".
Blessings,
Kelly
Mom to 6
Mimi to 8
MFW K, MFW 1st, Adventures, ECC, CTG, RTR ,EXP-1850, 1850-MOD, Ancient History and Lit 2016-17

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