## Math - Place value & general teaching helps

Learning God's Story
momakhomeschool
Posts: 5
Joined: Mon Oct 09, 2006 10:24 pm

### Math - Place value & general teaching helps

2lilreds wrote:Iif you have been uncomfortable with teaching math, is there any resource that you've found helpful? For example, I have a hard time explaining place value. We are doing the beans, and the number of the day sheet, and all that good stuff, but when she doesn't understand, I don't know what to say. I am not worried that MFW doesn't do enough math; I am afraid that I don't know how to teach the math.

I've been wondering if I need to explain things better, or if simple repetition of the tasks that we're working on will lead to her understanding?

She seems to be OK with the workbook pages that we do. I can see that we're going to have to do some extra practice with odds and evens, for example, but once we went over it and worked on it together, she really seemed to understand. But, I could tell her, "If you can divide the number evenly, it's an even number. If not, it is odd." Then, we used our two-color circles to count them and see how it works.

I am probably babbling. I am worried that I am not teaching math well, and wondered if anyone else has felt that way? Is this feeling because I am a newbie homeschooler and probably math phobic? Or is there something I can do to be a better math teacher?
Sorry, I don't really have any advice, but I sure know how you feel. I am using a program that is totally scripted and tells you everything to say and do and I still wonder if I am doing it right half the time.

My dd is 6.5 and she did not really grasp place value either. She almost has it but not quite. I am using the other program b/c I already had it on hand. It is ok but it takes longer than I think it should (45mins -1hr a day) if I do all of the listed activities. Usually, I skip alot of it. But, then I feel bad and like my dd will suffer if I don't do it all. Oh well, HSing certainly isn't easy is it?

Karen
cbollin
2lilreds: if you have The Complete Book of Math, there is a section on place value with a few ideas.

I used craft sticks and three pockets. I made my own pockets, nothing fancy. I had one for "units" made from paper. One for "tens" which was an hot oven square mitt (not the kind that are shaped like a mittn, but square) and one for "hundreds". That was a large square container. We would bundle up the craft sticks with a rubber band and move them along.

It takes time for place value to sink in. Repetition is a key factor. One of the big things to make sure your child understands, i.m.o., is the concept of zero. I think it is important for place value.

Odds and evens: give it time. That is a big concept. you have to have the idea of skip counting down and then to remember than it is the skip counts by 2's that are even. Here's an idea I did. Let's see if I can explain this in writing.

I made a chart in 2 columns. The left hand column was 1. The right hand column was 2. Next row 3, 4. etc.
We set out 2 plates (one for mom, one for kid).
We counted out snacks, or napkins, or plates or forks.
If the item being counted fit (one for you, one for me) and all of them get used--- we call that even. If it went one for you, one for me and oops! one for the cat! then that was odd, because "that's odd,the cat doesn't need that!"

See --- I was making a pun with the word odd while teaching math. I like to be silly with school

Then as we dished out our snack, I would circle just the even numbers on the little chart that we made.

very hands on, all integrated (even, odd, charting, graphing, skip counts, all of it).

Some of the fear of teaching math is just trying to remember the terminology. I've got to admit, with my first child I was all nervous about teaching anything --- even a subject with which I am comfortable (1st grade math). My best resource was just to relax and use those teachable moments and throw in a few math vocabulary every once in a while.

My second child didn't hear the words "place value" until a few weeks ago. But she had the concept down. How many are in the units pocket? How many are in the "tens" pocket? What do we call that number? And I would point while teaching so she would learn how to look for the answer. Then a couple of weeks ago, I just told her one day --- you know all that time we look at the units and tens pockets.... did you know that is something called Place Value? That's a neat name for it, I think.

You're going to be fine with the hands on approach.

I'm sure others have great resources to help a new teacher in this area.
--crystal
LSH in MS
Posts: 207
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:26 am
I just had to keep reminding about it. It took one of my sons 3 months to get place value. So keep at it!

I 've found decimal street to be helpful for my kids on place value. For decimal street there are 3 houses. Units, tens, and hundreds. Only 9 can live in each house. Once the units house is full (with nine) they have to become a ten and move to the tens house.

The same is true for the 10s to 100s. Another thing I like is when the houses go through a "hurricane" and get all jumbled up in the wrong order so the child has to put the houses in the correct order and each component (units, tens, hundreds) in the correct house. My kids have enjoyed that.

HTH,
Lori

wife to Clifford, mother to ds (17), ds (16), ds (15, ds (13), ds (8), and ds (3)
MFW user for 10 years
Ariasarias
Posts: 94
Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 11:26 am
When I was introducing place value, I used the math sense blocks that MFW offers with the K package. They are kind of like Cuisinaire rods. They have really helped my dd "see" the numbers. And when I introduced the hundred's place, she was really confused until I used these blocks and then she saw it. It has taken lots of repetition, but I think she is finally getting it. I've also used these blocks to introduce addition and subtraction facts and skip counting.
Nicole, wife to Claudio since 1996, and mom to dd (2000), dd (2003), dd (2005), and ds (2009).
Happy2BMotherof3
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 6:29 pm
Hiya I just wanted to say to 2lilreds that you are not alone.........I too have a very difficult time teaching math. Also my daughter is struggling.....(I think she takes after me becauase she's more on the creative artsy side like me) n e way, I appreciate those who've responded to the post. You have helped give me ideas and inspiration. You're going to laugh but I've tried decimal street (MUS) before....but it didn't work well for me ( I Know and there's even a video teaching :O) that's how bad I am.
2lilreds
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Sep 06, 2005 4:29 pm

Thanks everyone... I feel better knowing that I'm not alone. :-) I have found some neat things online to try, some games and stuff to help her get the concepts. What's interesting is, I think my Ker gets the 1st grade math better than my 1st grader sometimes! It's funny to hear the little one telling the big one the answers to math questions. :-)
Wife to Todd since 1995
Mom to Emma (2000), and Abigail (2001)
Renai
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Location: New Mexico
Contact:
With odds and evens, my dd "got" it well before she knew skip counting, so I don't think they need to have skip counting down.

One of the books suggested in the Appendix was great for odd and even (the farmer whose animals were each missing a mitten). Reminds me of the puns you mention in your post :).

I'm also of the mind that "sometimes" a concept just has to sink in. Last year, we worked on odd and even (different curriculum), but she got frustrated. This year, just doing MFW, she all of a sudden got it. And we had not worked on it since March, sooo.... Ah! Also remember, they'll be seeing this again later on the year as the topics are cycled. There's time - they do not have to get it "right now."

Renai
Renai
Wife to Enrique
Mom of two dd- 9/99 & 1/11

Bilingual homeschool
2004-05 SL
2005-2012 MFW
2012-2013 K12
2013-2014 dual-language charter
2014-2015 MFW Ancients/young'un- MFW preschool, reading books

http://creativeplaybilingual.blogspot.com/
kimber79
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### Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

Hi everyone!

We are into about 20+ days of MFW-1st and really like it! I was excited when my son began doing the long vowel activities in the workbook using the red pencil and he announced, "This is fun!" It became a game for him and has really been going well!

However, he's really not grasping the concept of place value with the beans. We've made two tens sticks with the beans and I'll show him the two bean sticks and say they equal 20 and he'll count them but when I ask how many more beans do I need to add to the bean sticks to get say 22, he struggles. He easily can figure out how many more to add if I say we have 21 beans and we want 22 so how many more do we need...but the place value part isn't clicking.

Any ideas? Am I not asking the questions right/phrasing it well? I made a number line on our window to also give him another way of figuring things out but (i.e., finding the number 20 on it and counting how many jumps it takes to get to 22) but I'm trying to see if this is more of a developmental issue (not ready to grasp place value yet) or if I'm not getting it! Any help is welcome!
mlhom4him
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### Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

kimber79 wrote:We are into about 20+ days of MFW-1st and really like it! I was excited when my son began doing the long vowel activities in the workbook using the red pencil and he announced, "This is fun!" It became a game for him and has really been going well!

However, he's really not grasping the concept of place value with the beans. We've made two tens sticks and he'll count them but when I ask how many more beans do I need to add to the bean sticks to get say 22, he struggles. He easily can figure out how many more to add if I say we have 21 beans and we want 22 so how many more do we need...but the place value part isn't clicking.

Any ideas? Am I not asking the questions right/phrasing it well? I made a number line on our window to also give him another way of figuring things out but (i.e., finding the number 20 on it and counting how many jumps it takes to get to 22) but I'm trying to see if this is more of a developmental issue (not ready to grasp place value yet) or if I'm not getting it! Any help is welcome!
How old is your son? Did you go through MFWK?

You might want to go to popsicle/craft sticks instead. Two containers one for the "extras" and one for the ones that you are counting. Bundle up 10's when you get them.

How many sticks are in a bundle? If he does not know, have him count them and rebundle them.
What number did we do yesterday?
What number are we doing today?
We are going to add one stick to our bundles. How many will we have then?

If he does not know the answer, just give him the answer. Have him count them. But don't belabor the point.

You are also doing the number chart, right? Counting to 100. Do the numbers in conjunction with the number chart. I would line up the bundles, or the sticks of beans with each 10 so that my daughter could see it.

It took a long time for her.

Mary Lou
MelissaB
Posts: 364
Joined: Sun May 09, 2010 10:01 pm

### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

If you're only 20 days into first, then there's plenty of time. At some point during the year, it will "click."

He'll get it. Just keep working.
Melissa B. (Arkansas)
Girls ages 16 & 13
Completed K, 1st, and Investigate {ECC; CTG; RTR; Expl.-1850; and 1850-Mod. Times}
"That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,.." Titus 2:4
Joyhomeschool
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### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

Would it make you feel better to know I've used other first grade math programs and my kiddos really didn't "get" it get it till we refreshed in 2nd grade. It's a hard concept.
Vicki
Homeschooling my 7,
2018/2019 1st, EXP, AHL, US 2
kimber79
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 2:01 pm

### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

Thanks everyone for the advice and encouragement! I was thinking that it was one of the harder concepts. We did go through MFW-K and so I do think a review of our popsicle sticks would be good! And we are using the number chart/100 chart as well. I'll be more patient and spend a little more time in other ways on this but not get too concerned. Thank you everyone!
TriciaMR
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Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:43 am

### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

You might try this:

show him a 2 and ask him what the number is.

Now, move the two to the left, and put a 0 on the right. Then, ask him what that number is. Then ask him, "Why is that number 20 instead of 2? Why is that number 20 instead of 0?" Then talk to him about how the place of the 2 changes the value of the number. It does take some time for them to get it.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
2015-2016 - WHL, RTR
2016-2017 - EXP1850, US1877
2017-2018 - DE, 1850MOD
2018-2019 - College, AHL
My blog
Cyndi (AZ)
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### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

do you have the Cuisinairre rods? You could try counting up ten 1's and placing them next to a 10, then adding more to the side from there?
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL
cbollin

### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

I'm not sure place value is the issue here from what you described of the problem...

what does he answer when you ask "how many more to make 22"? is he saying 2 unglued beans or 2 bean sticks? or something else or nothing else?

does he get it for 21, 23, 24?
did he get it for 11, 12, 13?
kimber79 wrote:As we're doing the number of the day with the beans, we'll fill in the number on the worksheet provided by MFW and then do the equations. I'll put out the two bean sticks (since we're up to 20 now) and show him that the two sticks make 20 by having him count all the beans. Then I'll tell him that we're trying to get 23 beans (to make our number of the day) and so how many more beans do we need to add to our bean sticks to make 23. And that always stumps him...he just starts guessing. So I tell him to look at the number again to see how how many beans we would need to add to our 20 beans to make 23. It takes him a little while to get it but he usually does. So I was just wondering if I wasn't asking the question correctly or not understanding how this should be done. Or maybe I'm the one that doesn't get place value and that wouldn't surprise me!

He is, however, able to tell me that if we have 22 beans and I want 23 how many more beans do I need to make 23 and he says one. He can count up to 100 and knows all of the numbers by recognition up to 100 and can see the difference between the numbers. So maybe I'm wrong and this isn't place value but just addition? Does that make sense?
I think you understand place value. But I think your son is hearing your words too literally. I have children who hear things differently and too literally... this is what I'm hearing in your 2nd post...

He can do "how many more from 22 to 23"... so he gets addition..

I wonder if he is confused with how many more to add to the actual sticks and is confused because he knows he can't add more to the sticks because they are already at 10 and mom said we don't put more on there at ten.. So if you're saying how many more to add to the sticks... he might really be hearing to the sticks, verses hearing add it to the number..

I would try it a little differently with my children...but direct the counting to "discover it". I would break down the steps of discovery like this....

have a cup for bean sticks (like you did with straws Kindy) and label it "10's"
have a cup to put the loose beans into...
We have 20 and want to have 23....
so, let's count together... 21 (and drop a bean in the cup) 22 (drop next bean in cup) 23 (drop it in )
We're there at 23.

how many are in the cup? (3, that's right)

so that means we needed start with 20 (2 sticks) and add 3 more to get 23.

I have a picture here with those equations and having the bean sticks (well, mine were with flower stickers)...
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 391#p54391

It's a long shot... and a guess....
-crystal
kw4blessings
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Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:56 pm

### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

Sounds like you and I are in the exact same place with 1st and my daughter is struggling with place value as well. I'm starting to think she struggles with math in general. Some things she gets easily, like greater than, less than, for example, and other things are a struggle. I'm going to try some of the above suggestions and just keep plugging forward. I'm hoping it will all "click" one day I hope it's not my lack of math teaching ability that's giving her a hard time, though

Just thought you may find comfort in knowing you're not alone!!
Kelly, blessed mama to
sweet girl 10, busy boys 8, 6, 3
2016-17 CTG, K, and All Aboard!
kimber79
Posts: 18
Joined: Thu May 19, 2011 2:01 pm

### Re: Son not getting place value-MFW 1st

Crystal, I will try that and will try to work with him more on our own too without little sister there...that may be causing some distraction! My son is 6 and struggles concentrating, especially if he can't get something right away! I also think we need to play some more games. I easily get overwhelmed at all of the math concepts we need to learn but I've been enjoying how MFW-1st is laid out.

And thanks Kelly for the message! I am thankful that others are experiencing this or have already. And I also think math is just a struggle in general for us (me and him.) I feel like since he's been counting things since he was a toddler he should get this by now but maybe not. I also want to be sure I understand what I'm doing before I try to teach him And maybe it's time to get my husband involved with math since I think he might do better explaining...we'll see!

Thanks again everyone!
hsm
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HSMom03 wrote:Just curious what others did for the number line in first grade. We are supposed to be writing the number of the day on it each day. I didn't see a blank number line in the student sheets. I did a quick online search and didn't see any printables that I liked. I might have one in a TM from another math program that I can just make a copy of. That might have the numbers on it though.

I suppose I could just draw a line with dashes all by myself . Just thought I would see what others did. Thanks!!
I did this
Lori-IL
K/ECC, CtG/Learning God's Story
dd-12, dd-9, ds-6
kw4blessings
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 12:56 pm

### Re: Number Line (1st Grade)

HSMom03 wrote:I suppose I could just draw a line with dashes all by myself
Same here.
Kelly, blessed mama to
sweet girl 10, busy boys 8, 6, 3