Workbook & Phonics Questions

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Cyndi (AZ)
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:22 pm

Workbook & Phonics Questions

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Sun May 30, 2010 11:44 am

MFW-1 Workbook Question
Chrystal in TX wrote:This is probably not a very crucial thing but... I'm a bit confused about when the children should be underling words in red or in black as they go through their workbook pages.

At first I thought I understood that red was for vowels only. Lesson 18 says to use a red pencil to put a slash through silent e & a line above long vowel. Lesson 28 says not to underline words in red that are not vowels. But we we start getting into combo letters like in Lesson 33 with ir/er/ur and we are supposed to underline that in red, that's where I start to get confused. Lesson 39 talks about marking the vowel on top but not what to do on the bottom. Lesson 42 says to underline y but doesn't say whether to use red or black. In Lesson 44 you are told to use red pencil.

OK... so my son is a pretty good reader and the whole red/black pencil underling thing probably won't make a bit of a difference to him but it is driving his perfectionistic Type-A mother crazy :) I'd like to understand how it is supposed to work! Thanks...

Chrystal
My quick answer? A red pencil is used whenever you are marking vowel sounds, either with the "smile" or underlining. A black lead (regular old #2) pencil is used for writing.
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL

cbollin

Re: MFW-1 Workbook Question

Unread post by cbollin » Sun May 30, 2010 12:47 pm

agreeing with Cyndi.

trying to help with the reasons a bit while not worrying too greatly on a lot of this so you know how it is working.....

red is for marking vowel sounds, vowel teams, R controlled vowels (and yes, that means to mark the r as well when you are marking for "vowel sounds". if it is part of helping to make the sound of the vowels, then go with red. So things like "oi" "oy".... well, the y is acting in a vowel role.


in lesson 28, the sound is not a "vowel sound" that is being marked. that's why it is in black.
It's /th/ sound, which has a fancy term like digraph or something like that. But is not a "vowel sound" so don't use red. The idea in that was to draw student's attention that /th/ together is not t and then h.

lesson 33 is one of those R controlled vowel teams, so the sound is made from ir/ur/er

lesson 39: the line drawn above is to help the student know the IGH is long I. it's similar to what you did in day 18. this time, instead of an "e" getting a slash, the "gh" gets the slash.

lesson 42 and 44: yes, the y needs red pencil as it is a vowel in these lessons.

-crystal

Chrystal in TX
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 4:41 pm

Re: MFW-1 Workbook Question

Unread post by Chrystal in TX » Mon May 31, 2010 1:01 am

That clears it up COMPLETELY. Thanks ladies...

It's not "vowels", it's vowel SOUNDS....

Thanks!

cbollin

1st grade phonics question

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Aug 05, 2010 10:24 am

finley3001 wrote:We're on day 21 in MFW1 and loving it!

I have a quick question, though. My daughter is 6.5 and is getting frustrated with marking the long/short vowel sounds in the student workbook. She can read all the words (thanks to 100 easy lessons that we did last year) well without marking them....my question is how important is it that she be able to identify the long/short vowel sounds (and other rules that are coming in future days) if she can already read the words? Should i just make sure she can read them and move on? Or do I really need to make sure she knows the "rule" for reading?

Thanks!
I think one hidden value is that it helps lay a foundation for spelling the words later when they are marking vowels and vowel teams and all of that.

-crystal

gratitude
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Re: 1st grade phonics question

Unread post by gratitude » Thu Aug 05, 2010 12:35 pm

I can only answer from the prespective of being one who never learned phonics. My ability to read was always above grade level, so I never did learn how to sound out words until I taught my oldest ds phonics.

Here is the problem: until two years ago I couldn't spell numerous words. Spell check does not make up for the handicap of not being able to spell; or the frustration it brings in a variety of situations (forms in offices, forums without spell check, writing a quick note, etc.) I have had my ds7 learn phonics, even though he started reading by sight much younger. It will help his spelling and vocabulary building for many years to come. His ability to sound out words is a blessing, and essential for spelling and vocabulary growth later on. He too is currently doing MFW Grade 1, and learning a lot of great phonics sounds, and yes marking the vowels even when he can read the word.

cbollin

Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:16 pm

jasntas wrote:OK. My 1st grader seems to do this ebb and flow thing with MFW 1st. She seemed to love MFW K. MFW 1st, she really seems to like her Bible Reader and doesn't usually mind re-reading the stories but when she sees that workbook she says, "Nooo!! Not the blue book!"

I have slowed her way down and we work out of it 2 days a week. Then we repeat the workbook lesson and reader and do another spelling program the other 2 days. Fridays are usually game days. Even on the repeat days she fights the 'blue book'. She can reread the Bible Reader with little trouble but doesn't usually attempt to read much else on her own. I don't know if she is struggling or if she is just being defiant. I almost feel like shelving it until next fall but she is already 7 and I feel the pressure to keep her moving forward. I also don't know what to have her do in the meantime.

I wish I knew exactly what the problem was. When I ask, she just says she doesn't know. She says it's too hard and she doesn't understand it. She seems to have a hard time with new concepts and ideas which are introduced daily in the program. I think she thinks she is already suppose to know the materials. I've tried to explain that it's new and I will (and do) help her every step of the way.

She does really dislike sounding out words. She wants to memorize them all, I think. When she does sound them out she usually says the wrong vowel sound or drops the vowel all together. She might say the short o sound for a or whatever but it's never the same. She knows all of her consonants and some blends with little to no problem but all those different vowel sounds really seem to trip her up. As far as I can tell, the only real issues seem to be her desire to memorize every word and the confusion with the vowel sounds.

This is maybe even more difficult for me because my ds did pretty much the same thing in K-2nd until we discovered he is dyslexic. I have thought that might be the problem with her but she doesn't seem to have any of the same signs or symptoms. She is just really reluctant and does the whole, "I can't do it" thing.

As I'm typing this, I'm wondering if it would make a difference if I ripped the pages out of the blue book and gave them to her as a single page. (The perfectionist in me just cringes thinking about ripping those pages out of that nice, neat notebook.) Any thoughts or advice would be much appreciated. Thanks so much.
(((hugs)))

my first thought was to do the pages at a dry erase board instead of worksheet.
or if you are using the tiles in your spelling program, maybe to build the words on the bottom part of the blue workbook page to have her read it (as you intro the phonogram in mfw 1st)
and then have her build the top part of the blue workbook with the tiles?

just something to make it a little different without having to rip out pages?

i mean, that's what I did today for review with my 8 y.o. for various phonics games.

I don't know if it will work with you or not...

David's post
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3313

-crystal

Wendy B.
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by Wendy B. » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:45 pm

A couple of ideas.

--Would you be willing to "skip" the blue book and do the lessons using index cards or notebook paper. This would be a little more work on your part but perhaps only having to look at one word at a time will help her.
-- Or maybe copy the pages and trial it before ripping them out of your book.
--do the lessons using your AAS tiles.
--if you plan on following up with AAS then consider using a different marking method than what is taught in MFW 1. I taught the MFW 1 way then I would also circle vowel/consonant teams to show him a different way to look at a word.

One trick that I've learned to do with a child who guesses at the vowel sound is to have them say the vowel sound first.

If the word is dog. I have them say the correct vowel sound /o/ then /d//o/ then /d//o//g/. We do this over and over and over and over. 8|

You are correct, AAS is great for this. Since they learn the different syllable types it will help them to determine the correct vowel sound. If you haven't gotten very far with AAS and syllable types then use the MFW 1 reading chart to help her determine the correct vowel sound to use.

Now if my 8yo guesses the wrong vowel sound ( yes , I'm sorry to tell you this can continue for a bit longer!). I ask him, " What type of syllable is this". Then, "What would the vowel say in that particular syllable" or "What does that vowel team say". Then he can get it. It's a process and for some kids it can be a long one. We've been doing this enough that he has started to use this pattern to attack new words on his own.

Hang in there!
Wendy B.
Graduated ds '08 & dd '09
Homeschooling ds 11 & dd 8 using RtR
completed: MFW 1, ADV, ECC & CtG.

705emily
Posts: 92
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Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by 705emily » Wed Feb 16, 2011 8:51 pm

Have you tried the "Bob Books?" Both my dc loved them and they start out VERY simple. The illustrations are black and white (she could color them in). The stories are very humorous, and my kids got a real kick out of them. Also there is the satisfaction of reading a whole book! They come in several sets (I believe A, AA, B BB etc. ......) and I think there are about 12 small books in each set. She may like these fun little sets of books...... :)

Blessings!
Irmi Gaut
MFW K, MFW 1, Adventures, ECC this year!

'And my God shall supply ALL your needs according to his riches in Glory!'

TriciaMR
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:43 am

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by TriciaMR » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:30 pm

Tammie,

One of my boys sounds exactly like your dd. My guess is my boy is slightly dyslexic - similar things my oldest did at that age (complaining, memorizing, guessing and not sounding out). He, too, complains about the blue workbook, yet seems to thrive on the AAS tiles... Similarities between your kids and mine:

1. Complaining about workbook pages. Toni did Abeka 1st, Charlie and Trent are doing MFW 1st. Toni never complained about the workbook pages, but reading the readers she did. Charlie complains about the Blue Workbook AND the Bible reader. I get the "It's too hard" complaint too, from him. (He's 6.5.) Almost every day we pull it out we get a moan, and fussiness, etc. And I say, "Charlie, do I help you every day with this? Do I guide you through it?" "Yes, Mom!" (Imagine groaning as that is said.) And he does fine with it when we do it. But, I have to sit there and say, "Mark the vowel(s). Say the sound. Say the word." He'll dawdle through it if I'm not right there. (My Charlie is a lefty, so I took the spiral binding off the Bible notebook so his hand isn't resting on the spiral when he writes. I will put it back together when we finish. He has asked me to do the same with the Blue notebook. Just unbend the one end and you can "unscrew" the binding off the pages instead of ripping them out.)

2. Not sounding out words. Toni didn't try unless I made her. Charlie is the same way. Trent I can just say, "Uh, you want to try that word again?" And he'll go back and look at it again and try again and not complain about it. Toni just this year starting sounding out words that she didn't know or couldn't figure out in context. Toni did a lot of was/saw, felt/left, on/no, etc. Charlie has gotten better about that when we pulled out the AAS tiles and I showed him the difference between was and saw (aw being a vowel team).

Other things: Toni is a TERRIBLE speller. She is getting better, but that is the one subject she STILL gets whiny over. Sigh. The other day we were writing our name tags at church (long story, we've recombined with a sister church and are still learning each others names, so we using name tags right now), and Charlie couldn't remember how to spell his name. Even after spelling it 3 days a week in preschool, at least once a week last year, and fairly often this year. Sigh.

My initial guess, even though she isn't showing the same signs, and since dyslexia tends to run in families, your dd may be dyslexic too. Even though it doesn't look the same. My Toni sounds a lot more like your dd. She would read well in context (except the reversals), but lists of words gave her trouble. And since the Blue notebook is mostly lists of words, I think that's what overwhelms those dyslexics. Once Charlie figures out the pattern, he does pretty well, but I'm pretty sure he is trying to memorize lots of those words. My Trent may be memorizing too... I'm watching him pretty closely. But, dyslexics tend to memorize the shapes of words, where as others actually memorize the letters in proper order (which is what I think Trent is doing and what I probably did when I was younger before the patterns/phonics became clear to me).

If she likes using the Tiles, I agree with using them to build the words for the sound/letter team your learning. Plus, you can add many more words than just the 3 rows in the book. (That's one area where I agree with AVKO - when a kid learns "nice," you might as well teach them "ice, price, thrice, twice, mice, rice, slice, dice, lice, vice (okay, maybe not *that* one)".) Combine learning the vowel/letter team with learning many of the words in the same family so you explicitly teach the pattern and she *sees* it.

Another thing I've found - I need to read through the Bible reader carefully and look for other words my boys might have trouble with and go over how to read them. Sometimes new words are in those passages that aren't on the Blue workbook pages, and that really sends my boys into a downward spiral.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
2015-2016 - WHL, RTR
2016-2017 - EXP1850, US1877
2017-2018 - DE, 1850MOD
2018-2019 - College, AHL
My blog

momsflowergarden
Posts: 26
Joined: Sun Nov 21, 2010 5:56 pm

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by momsflowergarden » Wed Feb 16, 2011 10:48 pm

Is it the writing that she doesn't like doing? When my ds was going through MFW 1st he balked at the writing big time. I don't even remember where I shared about it but what every board it was &) one recommendation was that I have him tell me what to write but I do the writing. I started doing that with the understanding that if he wanted to do some or the writing all he had to do was let me know. We went for about 6 wks with me doing most of the writing.

One morning I picked up the pencil and he took it out of my hand. We started and before I new it we had completed the whole lesson with him doing the writing. I praised he profusely and he leaned back in his chair and said, "I just thought I would give you a break today." :-) It was the longest lesson we had done and he had done all the writing! After that he did most of the writing but I still did some when he seemed stressed or expressed that he wanted me to do some of it.
For me I simply had to relax with it.
Be Blessed
Sandy
Mom of 5
Homeschooler of 2, ds 10 and dd 11
Using CLE Math, Calculadders, PLL/ILL, Rod and Staff spelling, AND MFW ECC for History, Science and Bible.

gratitude
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by gratitude » Thu Feb 17, 2011 8:48 am

jasntas wrote: She really seems to like her Bible Reader and doesn't usually mind re-reading the stories but when she sees that workbook she says, "Nooo!! Not the blue book!"
My oldest ds too could read the Bible reader easily. He is not dyslexic. He loved doing the Bible notebook. He had a strong !! dislike of the blue student notebook.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time this morning to read all of the other posts. So this is only in response to your post. ((Hugs))

We have loved the K phonics for my second son (fabulous); the blue student notebook though is very different in how the information is presented. We did the blue notebook cover to cover, with only a few missed pages, but only the first part really was successful. He could do it easily, but he didn't learn very well with it. This isn't a criticism of the blue notebook. MFW is fabulous, but that particular book didn't work for my son. At the end of it he knew very little phonics or spelling rules.

My solution was after we finished MFW 1 we started the phonics with Rod & Staff for grade 1. He loves doing it, he doesn't complain when the work book comes out. Yeah! He is learning!

I think the hardest part about home schooling for me has been finding the curriculum that works for my particular child. MFW has been a rich blessing in our lives and we LOVE it. However, the blue student notebook just happened to be one small part of the curriculum that didn't work for us. I could rave on and on about the phonics in K, but the blue book unfortunately was unsuccessful for my particular child.

I am only sharing in the hopes my experience might help you. Or at least know that someone else struggled with it too.
Last edited by gratitude on Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jasntas
Posts: 469
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Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by jasntas » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:21 pm

Wow! I left and came back to some great encouragement. Thanks so much to all of you for taking time to be an encouragement.

I just noticed today that my dd was reversing 'was' and 'saw' and really became hung up on the word 'on'. She was determined to make it the word 'not'. It was also followed by a word that began with 't'. I forget the word at the moment. (Probably 'the') I just really never thought that she might be dyslexic as well since she doesn't seem to fit the classic symptoms. Well, except for the reversals I've just begun to notice. I could go on but it's getting late and I need to head to bed soon.

Thank you ladies for suggesting using the tiles. I think I'll try that. Oh, and taking the binding off might work as well. Better than ripping for sure.

We do have several Bob book sets. I'll have to pull them out again.

Writing is an ok thing with her. Not her favorite but she will do it.

Having her say the vowel sound first is a good idea as well.

So much to think about.

I feel the hugs. I knew I could count on this board. :) We have loved everything else about MFW. It seems to have been pretty easy for me to tweak other things that have needed tweaking to fit our family but this one has me stumped.

We recently begun AAS and I'm going to try using the white board and the tiles for the MFW lessons as well. We'll see how that goes.
Tammie - Wife to James for 27 years
Mom to Justin (15) and Carissa (12)
ADV & K 2009-2010 . . . RTR (again) & WHL 2016-2017
http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/
The days of a mother are long but the years are short.

tiffany
Posts: 160
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Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by tiffany » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:13 pm

When we hit a wall with 1st grade, we would supplement with Explode the Code for a little while and then go back to the MFW program. Also, reading games are helpful. There are some explained in the teacher's manual. We also have games from Happy Phonics and games I still have left from when we used Sing, Spell, Read, and Write.

I taught 3 kids to read before we used MFW. With the 2 kids that followed, I found I have had to slow down the pace with MFW 1st. For us, it is more of a year-and-a-half amount of work, rather than one school year. So feel free to slow it down or switch it up once in awhile.
Tiffany
Wife to Tim ('88)
Mother to Sophie 16, Jonathan 14, Joey 12, Noah 10, Matthew 8, Eli 4
Have completed MFWK, MFW 1st grade, ECC, CTG, RTR, Exp.-1850,1850-Mod., HS Ancients, HS World
Fall of '11 ECC,HS Ancients, HS U.S. History to 1877

Renee413
Posts: 10
Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:09 pm

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by Renee413 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 7:25 pm

We're almost finished with 1st with ds soon to be 7. He cruised through the workbook but I think it was because we had finished Hooked on Phonics through the 2nd grade level (prior to starting MFW 1st) so the blue workbook was just a piece of cake for him. He had also finished Explode the Code 1-3 books which helped him tremendously.
~Renee
Colin - age 8: ECC, TT 4, PLL, Spelling Power
Analise - age 7: ECC, MUS Beta, PLL, SS & S

Completed: K, 1st, ADV

TriciaMR
Posts: 998
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:43 am

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by TriciaMR » Thu Feb 17, 2011 9:58 pm

Tammie,
Just wanting to encourage you on using the tiles...

Today I pulled out the blue workbook page (I finally undid the spiral on that one) and Charlie said, "Can we do spelling first?" So I said, "Sure." So, we did some AAS.

Then I said, "Come on over to Toni's board and we'll work on this worksheet." We're at the "-ed" lesson and Toni has all the letter tiles up on her board (I've not finished putting magnets on the boys' tiles). So, I build the base word, have him read it, and then add the "-ed" part, and have him say it, based on whether its /ed/, /d/, or /t/. He totally had fun with it. Then, the lower half of the page was about doubling the consonant for short vowel words. Well, thank goodness I'd already gone over the 1-1-1 rule with Toni, but I didn't call it the 1-1-1 rule with Charlie. We just talked about how we had to "protect" the short vowel, and if we didn't double that consonant, it would make it a long vowel.

Well, after that, we went back to the table, and he very quickly (for him) filled in the lower half of the worksheet (and he would even say, "And it's a short vowel, so I need to double the consonant."). Then we did the top line (where you have to put the words in the right order). I didn't have him go back and underline the "ed" in the words in the middle, since that was the whole point of doing it on the board.

Now, that took way longer than it took with Trent, but he didn't fuss, and we covered all the concepts on the worksheet, and when we were done, he was willing to go back and fill it in. And, that's probably the second time I taught an MFW 1st lesson with tiles. I should really do that way more often.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
2015-2016 - WHL, RTR
2016-2017 - EXP1850, US1877
2017-2018 - DE, 1850MOD
2018-2019 - College, AHL
My blog

chris629
Posts: 4
Joined: Mon Feb 07, 2011 2:09 pm

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by chris629 » Sun Feb 20, 2011 6:28 pm

My son is the same way with the blue book. But I think with him its more of how fast it moves. I stopped for awhile till I got some advice on here and I went back and started over with it. This time instead of every day I'm going to try to do a new sound, new grouping of letters etc every wk, work on it the whole wk and then maybe test again on Thursday to make sure he got it. If he does I will go on to the next one. If not we'll just take the next wk to work again on it. I will look up different ways on other websites to put into our lessons. I'm not the most creative person so I need to go looking for these things.
I will move at his pace. If he seems to have picked it up easy then we will move on if not we will stick with it. I have a feeling this summer we'll be working on reading and words and the different sounds of the letters just about every day.
He does awesome moving at the speed of HOP and so I give him a break and we go back to that sometimes. I want him to enjoy it but not just let him get away with not doing it either. So I give in every so often with going back to the easier books of HOP.
Christina 34
Sean 7
Josh 5
Alex 1

jasntas
Posts: 469
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2009 6:10 pm

Re: Struggling with what to do with 1st grader

Unread post by jasntas » Sun Feb 20, 2011 11:42 pm

Thanks Trish. It was encouraging to hear it went well with you. :) I think next week I'm going to take a short break from it. Then start up again using the white board and tiles for a while and see how that goes.

Christina, thanks for the advice. I like your plan. Do you have any regular sites you use that you could share? If you didn't want to post them here and you wanted to send me a PM or e-mail, that would be fine.

Thanks again to everyone for all the ideas.
Tammie - Wife to James for 27 years
Mom to Justin (15) and Carissa (12)
ADV & K 2009-2010 . . . RTR (again) & WHL 2016-2017
http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/
The days of a mother are long but the years are short.

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