3rd-4th grade - Transition from Adventures to ECC

cbollin

Re: Would ECC be better for 3rd/4th or 2nd/3rd?

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:34 am

Julie in MN wrote:
cbollin wrote:One was to a zoo that was organized by continents. The other was to a botanical garden that was organized by biomes. Isn't that awesome!
Okay, Crystal, I recognize that quote -- are you in the catalog this year?
oops... maybe I shouldn't have put that field trip memory on this thread....

page 33 of catalog
bottom corner with "get connected to other users"
http://www.mfwbooks.com/inc/catalog/view.html#/page/33
they found an old post of mine and cleaned it up... so it read better. but yeah, that's my story they included.
no picture of me. thankfully!
oh, the places were in Ft. Wayne, Indiana.

-crystal

Cyndi (AZ)
Posts: 543
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Re: Would ECC be better for 3rd/4th or 2nd/3rd?

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:49 am

I didn't read everything, so forgive me if I'm off base, but I had to take a deep breath and decide to share my story before I chicken out . . .

I started ECC in the fall of my dd's 3rd grade year - but she was only 2nd grade age. It went wonderfully! She absolutely loved it and participated in everything that wasn't an "advanced" activity. We got through about 10 weeks before packing up to move to another state.

Long story -- the move did not go well. Our rental situation was awful and we had to buy sooner than we planned and get out of there, so I never unpacked at the rental. We got into the new house at the end of March. I was already having issues with my dd being a "year ahead" of her peers because of church classes, etc., where she was the youngest one in the room - sometimes in with 5th graders with whom she had nothing in common. I saw it as a perfect opportunity to change her grade (and got lots of support around here to do so). After chatting with Julie and Crystal and Lucy (mostly Crystal . . . amazing help to me), I didn't even start back up with ECC. We called our "figure out where we live now" time social studies and did some PLL and Singapore.

So, in the fall of my dd's real 3rd grade year, we re-started ECC at the beginning. She was young and I knew she had loved the material, so I figured I was set. I was so wrong! She was so excited to get back to regular school time and here she was bored out of her mind. I put in a phone call to the office and spoke with David Hazell about how to get her engaged and he told me exactly how to go through the first 11 weeks in 2 weeks and get onto new material. The point is -- even though my dd was only 7yo, she had remembered so much (if not everything) of what she had learned an entire year earlier that she was bored to tears trying to use it as schoolwork. She needed to be challenged with new information, which I could do as a homeschooler even though I had her in 3rd grade for 2 years. Going over the same topic for too long is not very challenging.

So when folks ask if ECC will work for a 2nd grader, I think, "sure - as long as you consider them as a 2nd grader with 2nd grade expectations. They even retain the info much better than you'd expect." I don't know if that helps you, but I don't think I've ever told you all that before even though we've chatted so much about moving, etc.
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL

gratitude
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Re: Would ECC be better for 3rd/4th or 2nd/3rd?

Unread post by gratitude » Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:56 am

This is wonderful Cyndi! Thank you! It helped on many levels. Our move of course is the reason my first grader won't be finishing up MFW1 in June. It does help to hear that ECC worked with a 7 year old. I just wanted to make sure that I wasn't pushing the second born too much. I might be surprised. I see HUGE intellectual growth as he nears 7, which is the same thing that happened with his brother as he turned 7. Everything just took off at once at an accelerated rate and has never slowed down. I was also concerned that ECC might push my ds8, will be 9 for ECC, too much; I can see by this thread that my concerns in that direction were very unfounded. LOL.

Thank you!

MelissaM
Posts: 161
Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:52 pm

Re: Would ECC be better for 3rd/4th or 2nd/3rd?

Unread post by MelissaM » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:05 am

I would start it in the fall and do all the fun (and meaningful, as Jule said) stuff, for sure. No pressure, lots of learning, lots of excitement, lots of fun.

I would consider getting student sheets for your K'er too - I did not do that at first, and eventually my boy just cried because he wanted the John 3:16 sheets like his sister. He really enjoyed tagging along in ECC, and I cannot believe how much my kids learned, and how much they remember about it all.

ECC is a great, great year - do it, do it now! Ahem, sorry. Maybe not *right* now. :)
:)
Melissa
DD13
DS10
DS5
DS2

Cyndi (AZ)
Posts: 543
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Re: Would ECC be better for 3rd/4th or 2nd/3rd?

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:06 am

gratitude wrote:This is wonderful Cyndi! Thank you! It helped on many levels.
I'm thankful our crazy story could help someone.

I think you'll do great with ECC. Just remember that "advanced" means "5th grade and up" and does not mean "your really bright little children." :-) You can use a bit of that with your oldest if he's ready, but it's not necessary. It is different to move into a multi-grade TM, but knowing that it is coming should help you out a lot!
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL

cbollin

Is doing ECC w my 2nd and 3rd grader best?

Unread post by cbollin » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:54 pm

My3boysbec wrote:My question is whether or not ECC is too advanced for my crew?

My oldest is going into 3rd grade and my middle guy will be going into 2nd but he's only 6 (fully benefiting from sitting with us through my oldest kindergarten and 1st grade yr when he was interested ) and I have a2 yr old I have to keep occupied or participating in his "school" while we're doing ours.

I really had only a little hesitation to begin with but at the end of the school year one of the moms from our co-op group who has 2 sons similar apart in age said 2yrsago she did ECC with them and it wound up being too advanced and she shifted for the year n did some supplemental stuff until the following year.

Never seeing the curriculum I don't think I can rightly judge for myself ...Help :)..... Any experience or insight is greatly appreciated!
in the small case that you did ADV this year... my advice would be go with ECC and remember their ages when you give assignments.

I am in a very silly mood.. and probably shouldn't be all giddy with someone new to the forum... so.. this next part has some humor mixed with ideas in it. enjoy.

One of the hard things will be that ECC science might be tough for some young learners. That would be with the book called Properties of Ecosystems. Many people experience "multilevel text shock syndrome" when starting this book when oldest is in 3rd grade. MTSS.. a totally made up by me syndrome, affects some students enough that they use the MFW advice to just to the blue box experiments, and enjoy one paragraph instead of a page. then do the other science stuff in ECC and not worry too much on all of the vocab in the Prop of Ecosystem book. In fact, your 6 y.o should probably skip most of the text in that book and just enjoy the experiments, and exposure to new vocab and treat that like "gravy" for science, while meat/taters of it will be in the other science books.

now a bit more serious without humor of MTSS.

Other areas that could be rough spots in ECC.... trying to do the advanced the assignments with the ages of either child. don't feel like you have to do them. Don't fret on the "research packet" until you are closer to the end of the school year if you do it at all. There is a book called World Geography, that is really for grades 4-8 and none of those pages have to be done with younger children. However, you can use them as a time to introduce the concepts of cross referencing and do the pages together for extras. But you don't have to do all of them nor do them for all continents at this age.

enjoy the games, crafts, food, songs, prayer time... maps..

make sure you remember their age as guiding factor. everyone needs his own language arts and math.... make sure with this age group, you shift the focus on the science..... don't expect them to get every concept the first time you teach it.

back a long long long long time ago... the year was 2003. Adventures had not yet been written. My oldest did ECC in 2nd grade because that was pretty much the only thing MFW had out (except for 1st and Kindy and ctg was just being released)..... When I treated her like an 8 y.o in the program, we had a lot of fun. Of course... Prop of Ecosystems wasn't part of the program or even written yet..... I imagine it would have given me issues back then..... 5 years after that, when POE was released, I got the book... I understand why it gives some minor road bumps..... so somewhere on this forum I made some suggestions how to tweak.

anyway... have you done ADV? or just not interested in that program?
My3boysbec wrote:Thank you for the input!

we actually did Adv this past year , the boys did good n enjoyed it, but with math, spelling n English wise it made for some long days (having a 1 1/2yr old at the time)! We also moved 3000 miles away and had to tackle packing, living with friends for a month, finding a new job (for Dad), new place to live n then unpacking...so altogether I'm glad we all survived the year let alone got any school done,lol.

I just want to make sure we enjoy what we're doing and that I'm not asking too much of them (I tend to be one of those people that if it says "it's best to do X,Y and Z" then I want to do X,Y,and Z ) . So knowing that I'm a work in progress on "not doing everything" I needed some experienced advisors :)
when it says "advanced lesson".... do not do those. That's designed for a few 4th graders, and then for 5th and up. If you get stuck in P.oE book.. ask for ideas. :)

-crystal

Julie in MN
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Re: Is doing ECC w my 2nd and 3rd grader best?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Jul 09, 2012 10:50 pm

I've posted a bunch about this and don't want to go overboard with repeating myself here, so I'll post some links. Here's where I talked to someone who was worried:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... =25#p78540

And this was to a mom of many, but again worried:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 632#p51759

There are other good posts on that thread, as well. You are wise to know your weakness as far as pushing your oldest child. Most of us didn't figure that out until we got to #2... or #3 :)
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

lea_lpz
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Re: Is doing ECC w my 2nd and 3rd grader best?

Unread post by lea_lpz » Tue Jul 10, 2012 12:46 am

If they've done ADV they're probably going to be prepared for ECC, and remember, they'll be able to both repeat ECC at a more advanced level so you don't have to worry about them getting everything this next year because they'll get a chance their second go. Of course you could use a different core curriculum next year that isn't MFW (like a gap year?) and pick up the MFW family cycle and still complete it, but as far as doing MFW, ECC seems like most logical choice. Unless (because granted I have never done the cycle) another year is easier (?) but that could mess up the chronological order of history. And then some people skip ECC and go straight into CTG and save ECC for later or even skip it all together. I think personally ECC looks like a lot of fun and wouldn't want to miss it! Also, I really think geography is important and think that American's should be more aware of world geography. Ok. Off the soap box!
ds14, dd11,ds9, dd4.5, dd2.5, dd2.5 (yep twins)

Jesus_is_King
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Re: Is doing ECC w my 2nd and 3rd grader best?

Unread post by Jesus_is_King » Tue Jul 10, 2012 3:46 pm

Preface: Haven't done ECC, planning to do it with 2nd & 3rd grade girls in the fall. Have seen the curriculum. Touched. Read. Maybe smelled. Stop laughing ;)

Having gone through the books at a meet-up in Boise, I am feeling much more confident about using ECC. I have girls, who LOVE school and such ... but really, I think it will be fine. (Haven't done it yet ... don't hold me to it!) I'm completely excited to teach my kids about the world, where things are, how to get there, what it's like there, etc ... and I think that having that information somewhat tucked into their brains will make the continuing years of history much easier to grasp ... because they will have a minor clue about the place we are studying.

Hope to see you along the way this year!!!
Kathleen ~
Married to Mr. Mike for 14 years!!!
Bradon - 11; Alexys - 8 1/2; Haylee - 7; Levi - 4 1/2; Alli - 2 1/2

My3boysbec
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Re: Is doing ECC w my 2nd and 3rd grader best?

Unread post by My3boysbec » Thu Jul 12, 2012 12:43 pm

Wow, thanks again everyone for the input and encouragement. I feel like I'm prepared already to take it on (love how God creates the community of believers to encourage and build each other up!). I will definitely check out the links to previous posts and it helps as a reminder that the more advanced lessons can just be done in a following year, so anything I "miss" really won't be missed. thanks again, so much,this decision was weighing on my heart, I'm so glad I signed up to post and ask !

TriciaMR
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worried about starting ECC

Unread post by TriciaMR » Thu Jul 19, 2012 3:39 pm

robertb10502 wrote:Getting ready to start ECC with a 3rd, 2nd, K and tot. We have used MFW from the beginning and love it but I am a little worried about ECC. It looks like so much for a 3rd grader. I have been looking through the Exploring World Geography book and wondering what pages would be best to try with my son (3rd grader). I'm not planning on doing anything out of that book for my 2nd grader. Also what else did you end up leaving out for younger kids?? I know I push my oldest a little to much sometimes and really don't want to start out the year asking to much of him....so please help give me some ideas of what I should expect of him. Thanks!!
Back when I did ECC 1st edition with my 3rd grader, we looked through the packet and I let her pick pages she thought were fun and we did them together. Mostly she liked the animal matching and the graphing ones, but we would also do one other page. But, always together.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
2014-2015 - AHL, CTG
2015-2016 - WHL, RTR
2016-2017 - EXP1850, US1877
2017-2018 - DE, 1850MOD
2018-2019 - College, AHL
My blog

MFW-Lucy

Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by MFW-Lucy » Thu Jul 19, 2012 5:23 pm

Hi Samantha,

I wanted to reassure you that the Teacher's Manual gives you the freedom to choose to put that book aside until your children return to this year in 7th and 8th grade. The "Teaching Tips" refer you to week 3. In the week 3 notes the author only recommends using a couple of sheets from each continent and that is IF the student has the maturity and interest AND the parent/teacher has the interest and time, then you "might consider" adding a couple of pages. (There is similar information about using Properties of Ecosystems.)

Enjoy the great books, arts and crafts, the food, the music, missionary stories, and praying for people around the world as you play the geography game and learn where many countries are located this year on a blank map. You will have plenty of time research and learn more information about each continent the next time you your children study this year as 7th and 8th graders.

Enjoy you trip around the world!

Lucy

purpleheartwife
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Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by purpleheartwife » Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:57 pm

We are just finishing our second week with ECC and my dc are young like yours. Basically, I just try to keep in mind with each assignment- is it something they are going to understand and/or remember? There are plenty of fun things along the way to keep you busy even if you don't do the more advanced things. And we are reading a lot of books from the book basket to help cement what we are studying. So far so good for us:)
Erin
Wife to my Purple Heart Marine:)
Mom to ds8, dd6, ds3, ds1
Our 1st year with MFW, using ECC
http://wateronthefloor.blogspot.com/

MelissaB
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Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by MelissaB » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:08 am

Hi, Samantha -

We did ECC two years ago when our oldest was in 3rd and youngest in K. :)

I could be mistaken on this, but I think the ECC TM recommends the Expl. World Geog. workbook for older students. Looking at everything that we did that year, I really think you could set that book aside until you repeat the program in five years.

May I share some thoughts with you? The Prop. of the Ecosystems science book has a lot of big terms. We read the main parts that were relevant to the ecosystem of the continent we were studying, and skipped over a lot of the rest. I introduced the more advanced terms (i.e. deciduous forest, etc.) but didn't focus on them. We just talked about the information in the book, which is pretty fascinating really, and enjoyed the pictures.

Did you happen to purchase the additional Book of Animals? If not, I think your oldest children will get a lot out of that book.

You're going to have such a fun year. Enjoy! :-)

Melissa B.
Melissa B. (Arkansas)
Girls ages 16 & 13
Completed K, 1st, and Investigate {ECC; CTG; RTR; Expl.-1850; and 1850-Mod. Times}
"That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,.." Titus 2:4

jasntas
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Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by jasntas » Fri Jul 20, 2012 1:36 pm

I was selective and kept it light and fun.

I love the idea of playing Battleship. My ds loves that game.

Both my dc loved the 'Big Book of Animals'. (They were 4th & 1st at the time). They also loved POE. Be sure to do the hands on activities from that book.
Tammie - Wife to James for 27 years
Mom to Justin (15) and Carissa (12)
ADV & K 2009-2010 . . . RTR (again) & WHL 2016-2017
http://tammiestime.blogspot.com/
The days of a mother are long but the years are short.

robertb10502
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Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by robertb10502 » Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:18 pm

Thank you all for the ideas. I am going to read through them and take notes to put in the front of the teaches manual so I don't push him to hard. I know he will be thankful ;) If anybody else has more ideas that would be great. I am trying to get ready so we can start ECC sometime soon.

Yes we have the animal book... and i know they are going to love it. My oldest loves animals and reading so that book is going to be well loved :)
-Samantha- wife to Robert - mom to Christian, Riley, Eli and Annie.

2012 - 2013 ECC
2011 - 2012 1st and Adventures
2010 - 2011 K and 1st
2010 - 2009 K

cbollin

Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:22 pm

robertb10502 wrote:Properties of ecosystems is one of the books that I'm excited about... I have the all of the Gods design books from answers in Genesis....I'm excited it's planned for me with MFW. My oldest likes to just read them... So why do I hear so many people talking about it? Is it harder than the rest of the series?? I have it put up since I knew we would do it with ECC. Going to pull it out now and look through it.
The vocabulary is a little harder in early chapters. and unlike some of their books -- it doesn't have a one page summary for youngest students.

So there is a small learning curve of how to use a multi level textbook (versus grade specific text) with younger students. and for some people it' s a big learning curve that turns them off.

-crystal

sandi
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Re: worried about starting ECC

Unread post by sandi » Fri Jul 20, 2012 3:41 pm

When we used ECC the first time my children were young like yours. Our favorite part was the book basket. There are some great books on that list. It is one of my favorite parts about MFW. I read them to my children and we had so much fun. If the science book becomes to much you can just read one of your book baskets about deserts, forests, etc..
Hope you enjoy and don't forget to order those books from your library if you can. :-)
His Child,
Sandi

Julie in MN
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Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Jan 12, 2013 9:48 pm

shaffer96 wrote:Has anyone used ECC with a young 3rd grader? She turns 8 this summer. Is it good for that grade level or would it be better to wait until she is in 4th grade? She is doing Adventures right now and loving it!
We did ECC in 3rd and it was a wonderful year. I didn't have a "young" 3rd grader, but I think we still would've loved it.

The biggest challenge is for parents of 3rd graders to keep it a 3rd grade year. After doing Adventures, it's an adjustment to use a program designed for a much larger age range, and often excited parents want to do it all. It was easy for me, because I was teaching a youngest, not an oldest, and because Adventures didn't exist yet LOL. But if you do find yourself doing too much, you can always post here for some reminders about keeping it 3rd grade :)

Here is my more lengthy description of why ECC was so special for that age:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 808#p80884
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Cyndi (AZ)
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Re: Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Sat Jan 12, 2013 10:59 pm

ECC is perfect for an 8yo girl! :-) My dd did ECC in 3rd grade and we had an amazing year. You definitely need to keep in mind that the TM is written for 3rd-8th grade and not expect your 3rd grader to do the advanced assignments, but it is still an incredibly full year for 3rd grade. I was very impressed with how well my dd did learning all of the countries in the geography game, and how she could point out major mountain chains and name the oceans and continents and several rivers. The most important part of ECC is developing a heart for the unsaved, no matter their nationality, as well as praying for missionaries and people groups all over the world. It was great fun to try out recipes and food from other countries and read about different cultures. The book basket list in ECC is amazing! It includes lots of picture books that are still very fun for a 3rd grader. Going from ADV to ECC is a natural, smooth transition. It seems like a big deal at first, and the first 2 weeks are a little rough, but once you get into about week 5 and see the pattern developing of studying different things about each country, it is fun and easy to keep up with. We had a blast with zoo field trips that year, too, and studying animals from the different continents.

Did I mention it was fun? ;)
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL

TrustingHim
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Re: Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by TrustingHim » Sun Jan 13, 2013 5:34 pm

I think it always depends on the child. it would not have been too much for my oldest when she was in 3rd grade. However, it was too much for my youngest last year and we had to abandon it (we kept the science). If we had waited one more year, it would have been fine. Because we didn't get very far, I intend to use it in 8th grade with my youngest. My oldest was enjoying it as a 6th grader and I would have kept using it with her, but an online class became available and we felt called to put her in that for the rest of the year.

Another thing to consider is not just next year, but the years after. You say you have a young 3rd grader. That will make her a young 4th grader and 5th grader etc... Depending on her maturity level, you might want to put off the multi-age cycle for a year, just to give her an extra year of maturity later on down the road. I know not everyone will agree with me, but I was just discussing this with someone else, and I think sometimes we focus more on academic ability rather than emotional maturity. As the years go on, there are some hard topics to discuss, especially in 1850-Mod. It doesn't hurt to wait that extra year.

HTH!
Dorinda
Wife to an exceptional DH for 17 years
Mother to 2 Girls; 14 and 11
Used: EX-1850 & 1850-MOD both with the 2nd/3rd grade go-alongs and ECC with 7th/8th grade go alongs
2014/15: Ex-1850 & AHL
Psalm 118:24

DaniWestRN
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Re: Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by DaniWestRN » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:04 pm

Listening in here and tagging on. I'm in the same boat. My eldest will be a young 3rd grader (summer birthday turning 8 ). The thing for me is 1) I don't know what I would do if not MFW and 2) my second oldest is exactly one year younger than his sister so if I wait a year HE will be a young 3rd grader! So putting it off for that reason seems sort of silly, I mean when would it end? On the other hand, is ECC too much for a young 3rd AND young 2nd grader (who has already done Adventures)?
Danielle, Mommy to DD#1- 3rd/ECC, DS#1 -2nd/ECC, DD#2- K, DS#2- pre-K, and DD#3- learning to toddle

Amy C.
Posts: 202
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Re: Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by Amy C. » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:26 am

I just wanted to point out that your 3rd grader (starting ECC in 3rd grade and going through the 5-year cycle) would get ECC again in 8th grade and then history again (on a high school level) in high school so I would not be worried about him/her "getting" it all in 3rd grade. ECC is a good year to tailor to youngers and/or olders, in my opinion. It has the academics for olders (including the 7th/8th grade supplements) and the fun component for youngers. I think it is a good year to tweak either way so I would not be afraid to do it with a 3rd grader, just keeping in mind his/her academic abilities and emotional maturity and tailoring to that. He/she will get it in more depth later.

HTH,
Amy C.

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
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Re: Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:55 pm

Amy C. wrote:I just wanted to point out that your 3rd grader (starting ECC in 3rd grade and going through the 5-year cycle) would get ECC again in 8th grade and then history again (on a high school level) in high school so I would not be worried about him/her "getting" it all in 3rd grade.
Good point, Amy.

And i agree with your point about not being afraid. Just as a way to picture your day with youngers in ECC, I wrote out this post some time back, so you can picture some of the days while going through the sample online:

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... ngs#p85603

Hope that helps you visualize how age-appropriate it can be. I really think that those who have trouble should ask on the boards, and if necessary use a giant black sharpie to mark out the older activities from the manual ;)
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

DaniWestRN
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 13, 2009 3:41 pm

Re: Is ECC too much for a 3rd grader?

Unread post by DaniWestRN » Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:46 am

Thanks Julie. :) That's helpful!
Danielle, Mommy to DD#1- 3rd/ECC, DS#1 -2nd/ECC, DD#2- K, DS#2- pre-K, and DD#3- learning to toddle

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