Writing - How much in ECC?

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lyntley
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Writing - How much in ECC?

Unread post by lyntley » Sat Mar 14, 2009 12:37 pm

4littlehearts wrote:I have a future 3rd and 6th grader. How much writing is actually involved in the program, and what kind of writing is it, report writing, summaries, written narrations, copywork (excluding Writing strands, PLL, ILL or any other writing not included in the basic package)?
I adjusted the writing in ECC according to my children and their needs.

- For bible there is weekly copywork and dictation, 7YO took his time with this and sometimes only did part of it at first. He was doing it all by the end of the year.

- Hero Tales I did Narrations.

- We did nature walks and the kiddos drew a picture and wrote about it. Sometime a poem sometimes describing their setting or about their day. If not a nature walk maybe a journal page. This for us was an opportunity for lots of descriptive and creative writing, sometimes 7YO would dictate to me and I would write for him.

- There is letter writing on Fridays. Sometimes we did sometimes we didn't. But they at least learned how to write a letter, addressing it etc. We are actually doing that more this year than last.

- We Labeled maps. I often used a label maker for my 7YO.

- You can do country reports if you like with older ones. My 9YO copied some country facts. We did more oral work with 7YO. At the end of the year I had them choose one country and make a lapbook for a final report.

I use the TM as a facilitator rather than my boss and try to be as flexible as possible. It makes for a more relaxed Mommy and less frustrated students. MFW makes this easy to do.
Lynnette: Wife and Mother by the will of God.
ECC 07/08 with 9,7, and 2
CTG 08/09 with 10,8, and 3
www.homeschoolblogger.com/lyntley

Julie in MN
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Re: What kind of writing is involved in ECC and how much?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Mar 14, 2009 3:15 pm

4littlehearts wrote:Thank you Lynette again for answering my questions?

I just wanted to make sure there was enough writing for dd (11) and even thought, as you said, of letting her use the country report book to write a report on a specific country. Thanks for responding to all of my questions, today!
My son also made a page about each missionary, which he added to his geography notebook. (3rd grade)

By 6th grade, I wanted to make sure my son wrote every day, so if there wasn't much writing on a particular day, I would have him type up a description of what he learned in co-op or on a field trip, write a letter to a family member, and so on. I feel this kind of writing helps kids "own" the information they are learning and the writing they are producing, more so than some of the other methods out there.

[editor's note: 2nd edition ECC includes additional assignments for older students, including country reports]
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
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TriciaMR
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am I missing something in ECC? Writing?

Unread post by TriciaMR » Mon Dec 14, 2009 9:50 pm

Fenni wrote:It is possible that I'm missing something. :-) It seems we have so few pages in our binder compared to ADV. Seems he was doing more writing with ADV notebooking pages. Also, is he supposed to narrate back everything I read in the atlas or Living World? I get concerned that he won't be "ready" for CTG. I know I'm probably wrong, though, because I have been so happy with all of MFW so far and how they "build." I am just not feeling that build from ADV to ECC. ??? Put my worries to rest, please.
Other writing opportunities:

1. Copying memory verse
2. Dictation of memory verse
3. Science pages (we did 1st edition, and every time we read from Living World, dd had to make a science page). Yes, I had dd narrate back to me after reading, too (but not write her narration), and I typed her 3 sentences and she drew the picture).
4. Primary Language Lessons/Intermediate Language Lessons.
5. Copying the character quality and description from Hero Tales. (I realize this isn't every day or every week.)
6. Spelling
7. Back of flags
8. Some weeks had worksheets
9. The "Continent Packets" - even though we did them together, I had dd do some of the writing for those.
10. Geography vocabulary on Fridays.
11. Nature walk sketches and journaling.


Most "oldest" children are going to be 3rd grade for this. But, if they're 6th or higher, they would also be doing one country report per continent, and probably filling out all of the continent packet.

Those are just from my memory.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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doubleportion
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Re: am I missing something in ECC? Writing?

Unread post by doubleportion » Tue Dec 15, 2009 10:57 am

Just to tag on to Trish's comment. We are doing ECC 2nd Edition and are in week 22.

You will do some pages from:
World Geography (less for younger grades),
John 3:16 pages for each country,
some pages from A Trip Around the World and Another Trip Around the World (like crosswords, etc),
if you have the Complete Book of Animals we do pages from that book as well,
maps etc from student packet,
and we throw in handwriting since dd is 3rd grade and learning cursive (less now that she is beginning to master it).

I would encourage you to do the simpler pages from World Geography with your 3rd grader. My dd has really gotten to enjoy the challenge and now can do almost all of her assigned pages by herself. I helped her allot in the beginning. It has been great for her to get comfortable with her Atlas and map reading. At first we would only do the pages like "animals of _____" ; "rivers of ___" ; "physical features of ____________" and "bodies of water in_____________". Once we got to Europe we have started doing the others like "Islands of _____" (that was great to get more comfortable with longitude and latitude. She needed lots of help at first and only completed about three or four for the first continent we did it for. Eventually, now that we are in Asia she can do allot of it on her own.) Then once we got to Africa she has done in addition to the above mentioned "Cities of Africa", "vegetation of Africa", and labeled "Boundary map of Africa."

I will say that the US weeks felt kind of light after having done a whole year on the US with ADV. But as we have gotten to the other countries, some have felt fuller than others.

I also take pictures of our art projects, cooking projects etc. and print those out and put them into dd's notebooks.

HTH

:)
Edie

Cyndi (AZ)
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Re: am I missing something in ECC? Writing?

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Tue Dec 15, 2009 11:46 am

Thanks for posting this, Fenni, as I'm having the same questions! We are in Canada now, and I keep finding myself flipping through the TM thinking, "What else are we supposed to be doing?!" It's a weird feeling. I was actually a little leary of jumping into "the cycle" knowing that it's written for children up to 8th grade, and now I think I'm breezing over too many of the "advanced" things, saving them for later since my dd will repeat ECC when she's older.

Trish and Edie have helped. I hope more people will chime in with their thoughts, too!
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Julie in MN
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ECC Writing?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu May 31, 2012 9:46 am

gratitude wrote:A wonderful person gave me a great idea to ask more about ECC writing.
So what exactly is ALL of the writing in ECC? I would love to hear about all of the hidden parts, and see the entire list. It would be very helpful.
Thank you ladies! :-)
Carin,
Here's something to start with. I knew I must have posted on it :) It was in a PLL/ILL conversation:
Julie in MN wrote:I'm assuming you mean "composition" which might be just "sentence practice" but not handwriting practice or cursive lessons? When my son was in ECC, the "writing" that he did included:

- Bible copywork & character trait copywork
- science notebook pages & nature walk pages
- vocabulary cards for geography
- misc writing on the back of flag pages and maps etc
- letter writing on Fridays (typed)
- an occasional PLL lesson done on paper
- extras that really weren't necessary (Writing Strands-3 was recommended then so we did it, I had him make notebook pages on each missionary, etc)

Seemed like enough at our house. Sometimes writing is sneaking in there without your realizing it!
Julie
P.S. Remember that many great thinkers were educated orally (think Socrates) or with only a Bible (think Lincoln's early years).
Depending on age, you could add to that list:
- POE worksheets
- country reports
- etc. There's always room for more writing :)

In all of the years after 3rd, there will be a writing program added (Writing Strands). And in all of the years after ECC, there is the history notebook. Those can be as full as you like. My dd used the history notebook as her main method of learning even in high school.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
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cbollin

Re: ECC Writing?

Unread post by cbollin » Thu May 31, 2012 10:26 am

what I noticed in using ECC, is that it was up to parent to determine how much (in terms of numbers of sentences, etc) was to be done in all of those assignments.

My 4th grader in ECC - with Hero Tales character trait.... she would do the trait and definition, and then write 1 or 2 sentences as a narrative summary in each day's reading to explain the trait. Boldness, for example.. Boldness may require doing the unusual. Catherine Booth showed boldness because it was unusual to "Come Hear a Woman Preach"
that's not long, but it helped to remember parts of the story.. I doubt that student remembers it 3.5 years later... but...

They can write a bit more on those pages if needed. For my 7th grader.... nah... she just wrote the definition and then talked my ear off about the story. She was writing more in Country Summary Sheets.

Some people like to encourage a student to write a little something in each subject each day. others don't have to do every subject every day that way... but with ideas for each subject, you can rotate them around for just that extra sentence. Or to do a bit more with "real writing" with letters (on Friday)

with the vocab cards - it can be definition, and then use the word in a sentence.

I don't know if I'm getting the ideas across well right now.... but part of multi level teaching involves that mom eyes on it -- raise the bar a little here and there... adjust when pencil allergy breaks out. Do some oral reports once in a while..... end of unit... a child can make a poster board presentation as you get ready to serve a snack from the country.

so, those skills don't all have to be paper and pencil.... try to encourage a presentation once in a while. 3-5 minutes is enough

Julie in MN
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Is there writing in ECC?

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Apr 22, 2013 6:35 pm

BlossomsGirl wrote:I "think" I may have decided to use ECC next year with my 3rd, 5th, and 8th grade boys. One goal for them next year is to become more at ease with writing. I own IEW TWSS but have only used that method with their prepackaged history writing programs. Is there any writing ideas added to ECC? If not, (or even if there is) how do you approach it?
The "writing program" recommended for ECC is Writing Strands. Grades 4-7 start at level 3, and grade 8 starts at level 4.

Grammar is also a part of writing, and MFW recommends that for 7-8th graders here (scroll to the end of the page): http://www.mfwbooks.com/products/M50/70 ... Grades_2-8

There are also portions of writing included in ECC itself, both for all grades, and extras for grades 7-8. I remember typing that up here:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 812#p87812

I do think writing is a good thing to focus on, especially in 8th grade. The very best thing you can do, in my most humble opinion, is to set aside time to give the student feedback from you, the reader. First, can you understand the sentences, and then, can you understand the point of the paragraphs?

Well, there's a start. Keep asking so you can get the details you need,
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
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FaithfulSteward
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Doubts about ECC

Unread post by FaithfulSteward » Wed May 15, 2013 8:48 pm

Hi!

I purchased MFW ECC to use with my children (4th and under) next year. I've read through the entire teacher's manual and most of the books. I love the layout of the teacher's manual and it looks like it will be very easy to get done on a daily basis.

However, I am so apprehensive! I see a lot of me reading and discussing with the kids...but what to they do? It just really looks like all effort on my part, but very little on theirs. I would like to focus on writing with my 4th grader this year, and I did buy Writing Strands, but besides that I see very little writing. I would have liked to see some opportunities for the kids to apply what they are learning. They really need the writing practice! I guess I am not so concerned about what they are covering, but what they are doing with it.

I think my kids will really enjoy ECC, but I'm afraid it won't be worth the effort. I want to see some change in their skills and abilities at the end of the school year, not just have fun. I know that sounds like I'm a meanie, but I'm not :) I just want to be a good steward of our time!

Maybe you can give me some encourgement? I am not new to the Charlotte Mason/classical methods, or to literature-based learning. Maybe it just all comes together in a way that I can't fully appreciate just by reading through each day's work? I know MFW has a proven track record and reputation for a reason, so surely there must be something I am missing.
Thank you!

TriciaMR
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Doubts about ECC

Unread post by TriciaMR » Wed May 15, 2013 10:24 pm

FaithfulSteward wrote:Hi! I purchased MFW ECC to use with my children (4th and under) next year. I've read through the entire teacher's manual and most of the books. I love the layout of the teacher's manual and it looks like it will be very easy to get done on a daily basis.

However, I see a lot of me reading and discussing with the kids...but what to they do? It just really looks like all effort on my part, but very little on theirs.

I would like to focus on writing with my 4th grader this year, and I did buy Writing Strands, but besides that I see very little writing. I would have liked to see some opportunities for the kids to apply what they are learning. They really need the writing practice! I guess I am not so concerned about what they are covering, but what they are doing with it.

I think my kids will really enjoy ECC, but I want to see some change in their skills and abilities at the end of the school year, not just have fun. I know that sounds like I'm a meanie, but I'm not :) I just want to be a good steward of our time!

Maybe you can give me some encouragement? I am not new to the Charlotte Mason/classical methods, or to literature-based learning. Maybe it just all comes together in a way that I can't fully appreciate just by reading through each day's work? I know MFW has a proven track record and reputation for a reason, so surely there must be something I am missing.
Thank you!
Welcome!

There are lots of ways writing is included. You've already mentioned Writing Strands (for 4th and up). Don't overlook the English lessons in Primary Language Lessons and Intermediate Language Lessons - there is copywork, dictation, and eventually writing narrations. During Bible there is copywork and dictation of the memory verse for the week, and copywork for copying the Character Qualities from Hero Tales. Copying well formed sentences will help in the writing area. From science, there are also Science Pages. When you read Living World Encyclopedia, if there isn't a science page in the student sheets for that day, then the kids are suppose to draw a picture from Living World Encyclopedia and write two or three sentences.

Also, after you read the Bible passage for the day, you're suppose to have one of the kids "narrate" or tell it back in their own words. Although they aren't writing it down, it does help them when they do eventually begin writing narrations.

For your oldest, you could help him with writing a country report - not something really long, just enough to get the idea of putting a report together - make it more like a geography fair presentation where you take a tri-fold board and put pictures and interesting facts up, and then a little 3 to 5 minute talk of the interesting things he learned about that country. But, I don't think it is really necessary. And Writing Strands really will help his writing.

Now, I'm going to tell you a little story ;)

My oldest is dyslexic, and we did ECC 5 years ago when she was a 3rd grader (after switching from Abeka). For a lot of her writing we did double dictation - she would tell me what she wanted to write, I would write it on a whiteboard, and then we edited it together, and then she would copy it to her paper. Now this year, as a 7th grader, she is writing from outlines in history, on her own! And doing a pretty good job at it. But, we've had to work really gradually and gently to get to this point.
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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momonthemove
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Re: Doubts about ECC

Unread post by momonthemove » Thu May 16, 2013 11:19 am

We did ECC this past year. I think there are lots of ways to include additional writing. After reading a chapter from a read aloud, your children could write 1-3 sentences about what they remember. You could do a mini country report for each country where they have to write 3-5 facts in complete sentences. Then, they can "present" this to Dad. We did that for some countries.

Bible has writing/copy work.

Just a few thoguhts.
Deb
Wife to a wonderful husband of 18 years.
momonthemove to 3 wonderful children, 12, 8 and 5

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Julie in MN
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Re: Doubts about ECC

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu May 16, 2013 11:58 am

FaithfulSteward wrote: I would have liked to see some opportunities for the kids to apply what they are learning. They really need the writing practice! I guess I am not so concerned about what they are covering, but what they are doing with it.
I think it's a great thing that you are careful to insure your kids apply and reinforce what they're learning. And maybe some of the writing ideas for your 4th grader here will spark just what you are looking for.

Meanwhile, I also encourage you to look at application and reinforcement in new ways. Sometimes, when you read about a culture, it's good to write about it. The writing serves dual purposes -- practice writing, and reinforcing the information. But other times, one can apply and reinforce learning without writing. After all, folks managed to educate themselves throughout history without pencils in most cases, and even educate themselves better than we do, I might add, at least in some cases.

Narrating back what you've read, and discussing it, serves the same function as writing with a pencil. It's "doing something" with what you learn. I always tell my son that he must contact the information more than once, or his brain will discard it as temporary information like how many steps up to his friend's doorstep. We did add some notebook pages over the years. I also tried to do things like offer "review your notebook" as an activity during unscheduled afternoons. I've heard of others who keep a "memory box" of the different Bible verses and other information the family wants to commit to memory.

Also, cooking foods from a country, playing the geography game, trying on native costumes (making a dhoti out of bedsheets), or reading a vignette in a book basket book can all reinforce what is learned. These types of learning reinforcement are scheduled throughout MFW and in fact, for younger children, these may stick in the memory far longer than a paper-and-pencil method.

And the integration of different subjects also reinforces, since you are learning about a culture, while you pray for the culture and see john 3:16 in their language (Bible), and map out the deserts in their homeland (science), and sing little children's songs (music).

But it's always good to be intentional and make sure those connections are made. Sometimes when "serious school writing" isn't scheduled, folks are tempted to check off boxes and skip activities and just skim the surface of learning. I think it's good you are thinking this through.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
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Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
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unitlovinmama
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Re: Doubts about ECC

Unread post by unitlovinmama » Sun May 26, 2013 2:13 pm

We JUST finished our final week of ECC with a 2nd and 3rd grader. I found this to be such a rich and challenging year in many respects. There was plenty of writing using the copywork/dictation methods of Charlotte Mason (the Bible memory verses, Geography from A to Z, Hero tales character qualities). Also the notebooking pages provide an excellent opportunity to respond with what they are learning. English added more writing.

We all have a different philosophy of education, probably a mix of many ideas and ideals, which is what I have enjoyed about MFW this year- the best of many different approaches. Each family and child is different. I'm truly amazed at all my children have learned as a whole. Yes, you'll be reading quite a bit to your children, but also discussing what you have read and you can always assign extra writing assignments to reflect what they have learned, have them keep a journal or prayer book, etc. I can't believe the things my children even talk about these days- just today when I was teaching my son's Sunday school class, one of the children mentioned Saudi Arabia and how it has the most Muslims. My son knew the words on the flag and how closed they are to Christians in that country. They truly got a feel for John 3:16- God loves the whole world, not just the United States of America. There is so much you can add to this program (there are lots of ideas within the Trip Around the World books).

You do have to be involved in this program, but I think that's one of the best parts. You grow together as a family and I am getting a whole new education myself with MFW, right along with the kids.

Perhaps reading For the Children's Sake, Ruth Beechick books, or other books that explain the Charlotte Mason flavor will ease some of your doubts that this type of education works. We were so, so blessed! And we worked hard too :)
-Stephanie, HSing for 5 yrs, first year with MFW 2012-1013 (ECC).
Wife of 12 yrs, mama to three crazy but amazing kids (9, 7, and 3)
"May the favor of the Lord our God rest upon us; establish the work of our hands for us..." Psalm 90:17

luv2tch
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Re: Doubts about ECC

Unread post by luv2tch » Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:46 am

I did ECC last year with a 5th grader. I also wanted him to have improvement in writing. (I might add that he is a very reluctant writer!) In addition to the country report, journaling, nature notebook, etc, I added in BJU English 5, b/c that was an English I have taught many times, and am familiar with, plus my sis works there and gets me books at a discount! :-) It was not at all hard to add in another curriculum, if that is your desire. One of the things I love most about MFW is how flexible and adaptable it is--you can truly make it your own! We had a great experience with ECC and look forward to C2G this year!
Rhonda--Married 19 years to David
Traded classroom teaching for homeschooling!
Currently: C2G, AHL, and US 1
dd, 11th grade
ds, 9th grade
ds, 6th grade
"His divine power has given us everything required for life and godliness..." 2 Peter 1:3

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