Reading - How does MFW cover this subject in grades 2-6?

Julie - Staff
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Reading - How does MFW cover this subject in grades 2-6?

Unread post by Julie - Staff »

buckhome wrote:Does MFW have reading assignments followed by questions & answers (i.e. reading comprehension assignments/practice)? I have the ECC curriculum this year. I haven't looked through it enough to actually see if they do this. Any input would be helpful.
Posted Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:49 am by cbollin
Reading comprehension in MFW is covered a lot with using Narration techniques with things that we read to them or with them. Many times I have my children read some things out loud with me from their MFW books. My oldest doesn't have to look on the page with me, my middle child pays attention better if she does.

Tracey (Winni on this forum) gave a link the other day to help with some of the narration ideas. Here it is.
http://www.pennygardner.com/narrationcube.html

For my middle child, I work on reading comprehension skills during Reading Time on the MFW grid. I use little reading comprehension guides that I mentioned earlier in this thread. And you were using something that you found at a book store. So it’s ok to add in those kinds of things and do it when it says Reading on the grid. That grid box is a time to work on comprehension skills and MFW leaves a lot of flexibility for that based on individual need. I help my daughter learn how to look back in the text for answers.

Other ways in the ECC year that you will have question and answers available for reading comprehension:
Hero Tales – at the end of each unit in Hero Tales there are some very quick questions that you can answer. You don’t have to let your child read all of the sections out loud. Read it together, take turns. Then --- what I do is show my children how to look back in the text to find the answers.

Science books --- you can use those to combine narration, comprehension and writing together. Some ideas are given in the Teaching Tips section of the ECC manual.

The book World Geography that is used in making the continent packet --- I used that the first time with my oldest to work on all kinds of things from reading comprehension, to learning how to read and interpret a graph. So, you could look for ways to use the pages in that book as a teaching tool (not a research tool at your daughter’s age) and incorporate comprehension skills in that.

Then, some reading comprehension will be part of whatever language arts you use too.

I might be leaving something out. But there are those kinds of Q&A times within the unit study.

-crystal
TriciaMR
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Us & Them Reading Aloud /Reading Silently/Narration/Basket?

Unread post by TriciaMR »

gratitude wrote:I have some questions about early elementary reading & the ADV grid:

1. When it says reading on the ADV grid is this having him read aloud to me & then also reading silently?
2. How long should I have him read aloud to me each day?
3. After he reads aloud to me should he narrate what he read?
4. My son LOVES to read. How often should I have him narrate the books he reads silently? Or do I keep narration to books I read aloud to my children & he reads aloud to me?
5. Book basket books: Do they narrate these or just read / browse them silently?
6. When I have him read aloud to me should I have him read aloud at reading level or below reading level?
7. If he is narrating well when he reads to me & I read to him should I assume that is he comprehending what he reads silently; or do I need him to occasionally narrate what he reads silently (I just don't want to hurt his love for reading; am I being overly concerned that I will hurt it by having him narrate silent reading?)

My last thread helped me understand narration much better. :-) [ http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 458#p77458 ] It also helped me appreciate even more the love he has for reading silently. :-)

I am still a bit confused though on how much to have him read aloud to me & how often to have him narrate.

Thank you!

P.S. I saved the ants from MFWK from this past school year for this summer. They arrived yesterday and the kids are having a wonderful time & learning so much watching these industrious creatures. Tunnels are already forming. Thank you MFW.. I love it!
Carin,

My random experiences...

1. For the "Reading" box, I have my boys (7 yo, 2nd graders) read aloud to me for 10 minutes (I even set the timer on the watch) from a grade-level Pathway Reader or Abeka Reader. I can tell if they are understanding by how they read and little comments they make in the stories. We're doing EXP1850 this year, and I also have them read pages from the Complete Book of Animals to me, and those have questions at the bottom to answer that help ascertain whether or not they're listening/comprehending. I do have my now 6th grader read to me once or twice a week. She's been reading an Abeka reader for her reading time, and a Pathway reader to me. But that's just me. She also gets books from the library to read on her own.

2. For book basket, I just let them read. I don't have them narrate or quiz them or anything. Usually my oldest tells me about a book, if she thinks it is really good. One of my boys (my non-dyslexic), has been reading a book about Ponce de Leon. He's even keeping a bookmark in the book because he's interested in it. But, he's not telling me much about what he's reading, but he has said he is enjoying the book. My other boy (dyslexic) only flips through the books and says to me, "I read them all already, mom." LOL!

3. I only have them narrate for Bible (like when it has included Victors or Trial and Triumph or something), History and Science, or narration/reproduction is the lesson in PLL/ILL. (I don't have them narrate the "Read Alouds" that fall in the "Read Aloud" box on the grid.) I want them to enjoy learning and see how it is fun, so I don't push it much beyond that. I can tell they're listening and understanding because the topics will come up in the oddest situations. They'll make up a game about something, or I'll hear my boys discussing something in the car (like the other day, we'd done the first week of Boy, Have I Got Problems, and we had looked up verses about God's sovereignty, and then they were just chatting about how God's in control over all these different situations they were seeing - WOW!), or they'd do a LEGO thing.

But, that's just my personal experiences and what I do... It's your homeschool, do it like you want to...

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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cbollin

Re: Us & Them Reading Aloud /Reading Silently/Narration/Bask

Unread post by cbollin »

gratitude wrote:I have some questions about early elementary reading & the ADV grid:
I'll help with the little that I learned from having these same questions. and as always I 100% reserve the right to be wrong on it. I'm just one opinion and only experience comes from my own kids. I"m no expert. so you know my disclaimer... in addition to whatever cool and awesome ways we share how it works... call mfw or email them with the questions too. Couldn't hurt to ask if you are using the reading and book basket the way Marie intends. then tweak how you like ;)
1. When it says reading on the ADV grid is this having him read aloud to me & then also reading silently?
yes. it's for "finishing a book to the end" (unless it is just sooooooooo awful you can't) The idea is that yes, we finish books.
2. How long should I have him read aloud to me each day?

I don't know. My voices like a break after 10 or 15 minutes, so I don't make my kids go that long.
3. After he reads aloud to me should he narrate what he read?
hmmm... my middle gal usually just makes a comment on her own... for her it's more like how we make comments about TV shows while watching. hit the pause button and say something and go on.
4. My son LOVES to read. How often should I have him narrate the books he reads silently? Or do I keep narration to books I read aloud to my children & he reads aloud to me?

With my kids, I do it this way:
narration is for read alouds. that's a way to help lock info in their brains and for me to make sure they are still paying attention.
Read silently: I use "narration" techniques, but in my mind I just think of it "ooh.. tell me about the book. I didn't get to read it yet. what's was cool?" so, I call that discussion or talk about it for a few minutes to hang out and talk about stuff they are doing without me.

so, for me, it's a mindset difference from my point of view.
5. Book basket books: Do they narrate these or just read / browse them silently?
book basket is for the "learning to love to read" They don't have to finish those books if they don't want to. Let them pick them up, set them down, thumb through it.... do not over quiz (or over narrate) about them. encourage to share something at supper even if it is "you know, I didn't really want to learn that much more about Ponce de Leon, but I saw a cool picture of an old fort on an island in the book then I played with the cat. her ringworm is back on her ear."
(week 2, ex1850, my middle child and me 4 days ago. )

or a historical fiction book: that was fun to read mom. I read the whole thing and it was an adventure! (same kid... I guess she read it? but I couldn't draw much more out of her tonight on the book) LOL

you can use book basket books for "reading time" and even "just free time" or even for you to read aloud for an extra fact or two. It's the most flexible part of mfw. It's there to enjoy!
6. When I have him read aloud to me should I have him read aloud at reading level or below reading level?
yes, both are fine. below reading level will encourage fluency and "public speaking" skills. at reading level encourages some growth and trying. It's much easier to read aloud from slightly below level. Great practice, and confidence builder. My middle gal does great reading out loud from "easier" book basket books. She reads with a lot of voices and characters and inflection and our cat loves it. She can read a full chapter to the cat with no problem.
7. If he is narrating well when he reads to me & I read to him should I assume that is he comprehending what he reads silently; or do I need him to occasionally narrate what he reads silently (I just don't want to hurt his love for reading; am I being overly concerned that I will hurt it by having him narrate silent reading?)
if you have him narrate too much where he feels it is a quiz, that is a valid concern. I assume my oldest really gets what she reads silently. In elementary, I didn't worry about it. I figured if she knew the characters names and setting and plot, that was enough for it. She's a talker to begin with -- so when she'd get excited she'd just bring her book from her room and start reading stuff and saying "can you believe that part that he said?' well. uh. no, I haven't read the book honey.. "well, he did this and that and it's just so obvious..." and then she'd disappear with the book

so... she understands it.

Given your child's age, I'm not sure much more is needed than character, plot, setting, did you enjoy it? do you think others would or wouldn't? Dont' worry about terms like "denouement" (or whatever it is), or if they get the symbolism, or some "deep meaning". Plot and sequence of plot and trying to think ahead and enjoy the story.

(((hugs)))
one other little thing I do for testing non fiction reading comprehension: have them read the science experiments and set them up. or read a recipe and follow it. doesn't apply to fiction, but that's ok.

I guess the other part of it could be that my youngest does "reading comprehension worksheets" in her speech therapy. And it's just pointing out details while looking back in the text, and then some other little things in there that aren't reading comprehension but other language skills (like spelling list) and a question like "have you ever had a time where you were like so and so in the story and went sailing" talk about the experience. That has some fancy educator lingo with it... but eh? In my kid's case, she needs the questions in writing to help her understand the actual question. so it's very different for her.

-crystal
gratitude
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Re: Us & Them Reading Aloud /Reading Silently/Narration/Bask

Unread post by gratitude »

cbollin wrote:My middle gal does great reading out loud from "easier" book basket books. She reads with a lot of voices and characters and inflection and our cat loves it. She can read a full chapter to the cat with no problem.
LOL. I love cats, so I had to quote this since it made me laugh.

Thank you Trish & Crystal... everything you both said was extremely helpful. I can tend to over complicate things, and you both simplified 'grade school reading' so that I understand it. I really like how MFW approaches LA & reading comprehension, etc. from so many different angles. It helped though to read the two of you talk through it so I could wrap my brain around how it all comes together. I need the big picture first, or I lose the details completely.

So thank you... I had stopped having him read to me this summer, but it sounds like a good thing to start up again. I was using the reading box for silent reading time, but it dawned on me that it might not mean quite that all by itself.

Blessings for your weekend everyone,
Last edited by gratitude on Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Julie in MN
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Re: Us & Them Reading Aloud /Reading Silently/Narration/Bask

Unread post by Julie in MN »

I think you guys have covered it all, but I just feel like thinking thru my thoughts on a reading thread -- one of my favorite topics :-)

1. I think the grid itself means reading silently, at or even below grade level, building their personal reading endurance and ability. Some kids do this already & you can check it off the grid when you start in the morning ;) , while others like my youngest need a timer.

2. This is my opinion, which is very biased by my years as a tutor at a center where we had to move a lot of kids thru every day, so take it with a grain of salt, but...

I think of reading aloud as a separate skill than reading to yourself. I saw some kids where these two skills meshed nicely, but for most they really are not connected, and a child can be good at one and not the other. So I have felt that reading aloud is good to do once or twice a week for about 2 minutes (in one subject or another), unless you see a need for more. If you do see a need, then having the student practice in front of the cat or the teddy bear or baby sister might be better than in front of someone who will feel obliged to correct them. I do think they need correction during the once-or-twice a week with you, but not with their "practice" time. When I do correct them, I focus on getting them to see reading aloud from the listener's point of view -- as a listener, I need to hear even those little words; I need to hear the pause when one thought ends at the end of a sentence; I need to have a tiny bit of excitement in the expression :)

Sometimes reading aloud could help you see if their silent reading is progressing nicely, but discussion is probably better at that. A good silent reader is often skimming across words and subbing words in & out. The point is whether they understood what the book was about. You might skim the book for some big words and ask whether the child knew them, and then get into a discussion about why that word was in there. You might know the "moral" of the story and check as to whether the child understood (a classic was when my son read 100 Dresses and thought it basically was about how to make fun of someone).

3. I agree with the others -- no narration after reading, aloud or silently. But discussion is good. I sometimes used a little "rating grid" after various books (some read independently, some together). That seemed to help my ds chat about books with little pain, and it seemed to help him remember the books he read. He'd circle somewhere between 1 and 5 on various things, or 1-10, and then I'd ask him why he chose those ratings. At first, I used something from Pizza Hut's Book-It (not sure if they have those worksheets any more), and later I made something from High School Form-U-La, because I had that around the house. But basically it was rating the book on different things. The younger one asked things like, "Would you recommend this book to a friend?" and the older one I remember asked about its value -- did it have scientific value? how about tear-jerking value? :~

4. I agree with the others -- yes narration after *I* read to him. Doing "something" with actual factual learning is necessary, in my opinion, or it will fly out the "other ear" so-to-speak. And how painless is the doing when it's just narration?!

5. Again, I agree on book basket -- total flexibility. Sometimes ds would look at pictures only, sometimes he'd read, sometimes he'd ask me to read. I did usually ask him to tell me one new thing he learned, just because I thought that particular kid needed that question...

6. The read aloud level I like for student reading is at the top of their level of ease -- slightly easier than they would read to themselves. Again, I look at reading aloud as a separate skill, something that comes in handy when someone asks you to read at church or on a field trip or at a business meeting. My ds took a speech class in 7th, and the teacher pretty much had them speak about things they already knew -- read a picture book, tell how to do something they know about, etc. Nothing even mildly challenging in the actual "reading" department.

7. I already mentioned this in #2, but a couple of things I like to check in on are vocab and morals. I don't check in on things like "Who answered the door?" or "What did Mikey say when he got to the beach?" I figure if they got the moral to the story, then whatever they did was okay. And if they pick up a little vocab along the way, it can't hurt. I'm cautious about vocab because I worked with many international students who could read pages and pages, flawlessly and even with lovely expression, but when I asked them what something meant, a few were deers in the headlights.

But it wasn't tiny details they needed to understand -- it was vocab (including a few idioms like "sitting on the fence" and even words that are just from older generations - what is a dial ?? ) and overall morals the author was assuming he was getting across (such as having too many electronics, or picking up after yourself, or as they got older things like gossip). If you can skim for those kinds of things and chat on occasion, it would probably be more valuable than any particular set of questions.

Julie
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Cyndi (AZ)
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Re: Us & Them Reading Aloud /Reading Silently/Narration/Bask

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) »

I remember getting this same advice from Julie and Crystal a few years ago. Made me smile. :) This is a very good thread!

The part I'll emphasize because it worked for us was to have dd read below grade level books to me a couple of times each week. Then for quiet reading, she could pick a book that was at her reading level. Doing it that way greatly improved her read aloud skills, slowing down and enunciating - especially when she started reading to her stuffed animals or our dog. Having the whole page of a chapter book in front of her for reading aloud was just too much; she tried to talk as fast as she could read.

I wish we were better at narrating. We usually have a little chat or I'll even say, "Give me a book report on that one." Being a chatty girl, she's usually happy to share about what she read. For school this year, I'm going to have her stand at the while board and narrate after history reading. She thinks she's being Laura Ingalls or Molly McIntire with stuff like that. For reading though, we'll stick to our "book club" atmosphere.
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gratitude
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Re: Us & Them Reading Aloud /Reading Silently/Narration/Bask

Unread post by gratitude »

Julie in MN wrote:A good silent reader is often skimming across words and subbing words in & out. The point is whether they understood what the book was about. You might skim the book for some big words and ask whether the child knew them, and then get into a discussion about why that word was in there. You might know the "moral" of the story and check as to whether the child understood (a classic was when my son read 100 Dresses and thought it basically was about how to make fun of someone).

But it wasn't tiny details they needed to understand -- it was vocab (including a few idioms like "sitting on the fence" and even words that are just from older generations - what is a dial ?? ) and overall morals the author was assuming he was getting across (such as having too many electronics, or picking up after yourself, or as they got older things like gossip). If you can skim for those kinds of things and chat on occasion, it would probably be more valuable than any particular set of questions.
Julie
Everything you said Julie was so very helpful to read!

I quoted the above because I think it is good insight for me. I was reading over his shoulder one day and was surprised to find myself only 1 -2 paragraphs ahead of him (being a fast reader myself, and only recently learning to slow my own down for comprehension).

LOL! The fact you mentioned vocabulary from older generations finally made me google a word from Jane Austin that I have wondered about for years. Michaelmas! I finally know that it is a celebration on September 29 for Feast of St. Michael and refers to the first term for the Courts in England and our own Supreme Court and some Universities that lasts until Christmas. I always did wonder what it meant to refer to such and such occurring by Michaelmas.

I also really liked your insights on morals & vocabulary.

Thank you too Cyndi for the insights on reading aloud.

A big thank you to all of you who have responded. ALL of your answers are helping me piece this together in my head. Once I can piece it together in my mind I can usually start implementing.
s_duguid
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Reading (as a subject)

Unread post by s_duguid »

angpng wrote:I've been using MFW for a couple years (1st grade and Adventures) and am considering doing ECC next year. I was wondering about the reading component though. It seems like a lot of other curriculum teach Reading as a separate subject with workbooks for reading comprehension etc. I really haven't found a lot of that the past couple of years and have been making up my own questions when I read stories to them. Is this the same for ECC? I'm thinking I'll need to supplement an actual reading program as it doesn't seem like MFW covers that. I know some of it is supposedly integrated, but I didn't find that to be true for the past two years. Am I missing something? Thank you!
Angie
This is where the Charlotte Mason approach kicks in and narration is used to help gauge comprehension. Also writing summaries help, too.

I know this has been one of the areas I have questioned over the years, too. But I love how my dd has developed the joy of reading through all the book basket recommendations, independent readers, and read-alouds.

Once your student hits jr. high, Progeny Press is used which is more in-depth reading comprehension.

If you really want to feel like you are getting something even more tangible in the younger years, you could always pick up a workbook like Reading Detectives. It has all those key terms like fact vs. opinion, foreshadowing, etc. with shorter passages.

Books like Reading Strands and even Well-Trained Mind have general questions to ask children to check comprehension.


-Sue
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mlhom4him
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Re: Reading (as a subject)

Unread post by mlhom4him »

The best way to learn reading comprehension is by narrating back to you what has been read. This takes much practice on your part to teach narration and to remember to do it. Sometime I forget to include narration in the day but usually always Dad will ask "what did you learn today?" at the dinner table. NARRATION! This is the best reading comprehension curriculum around. Dad knows nothing about what was studied. The students can retell what was learned. Dad can ask questions for understanding and the students can respond. Occasionally we will also do quiz time at dinner when Dad and I ask questions about things that we know have been covered. This also gives us an idea if the concepts have been retained.

The addition of another curriculum/book is not needed. MFW covers it all. It is there. Your kids are getting it. :)

Mary Lou Hom
cbollin

Re: Reading (as a subject)

Unread post by cbollin »

agreeing with others about narration ...

during "reading time" on the grid, you can select any quality children's literature that you wish to use. There are several lists in the back of the manual by grade level. That's a separate list from book basket. Or, you can use some titles from book basket list too. Everyone once in a while, let your child read out loud to you so you can listen for fluency.

then, use narration techniques. If you are unused what that means... I'd encourage you to check out this information for quick tips and pointers.
http://www.squidoo.com/narration


on the other hand, it's ok to do a reading comprehension workbook or other reading program. I know with first two children, narration was great to use. I had a tiny workbook (a $4 one from teacher supply store) so I had a clue what to ask on stuff... then, was done with that... But then... there's the third child... who has autism.. and I surprised myself with paying for reading eggspress online to use for comprehension along with her speech therapy..... we still do some "narration story telling" with her, but for repeating over and over... we added that computer element. I wouldn't necessarily recommend it for most people.. anyway....


anyway, there are a few other component of Reading as a subject in MFW... check out page 34 of the catalog
http://www.mfwbooks.com/inc/catalog/view.html#/page/35

so there is a bit of it in PLL/ILL... .narration with free reading.. and then in jr high years, it shifts to Progeny Press Guides.

-crystal
cherona
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Re: Reading (as a subject)

Unread post by cherona »

You've got a lot of great suggestions. I really like the idea of narration vs workbook for reading comprehension.

Crystal- Thanks so much for that squidoo link! I was just going to search for narration ideas/tips. You saved me a lot of trouble! :-) I found I'm already asking a lot of the questions suggested after my read-aloud time with the girls. I think narration is such a natural teaching tool. We do it a lot during Bible reading time after I've read a chapter aloud. The girls also really like our oral "fill in the blank" where I read back a verse from the chapter leaving one word out that the one called on has to orally "fill in". I should try that with some of our read-aloud books too. That could be fun. :)

I hope you find a technique/tool that fits for you Angie! :)

Cheri
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TriciaMR
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Re: Reading (as a subject)

Unread post by TriciaMR »

I just get grade-level readers (I try to find used ones from Abeka and Pathway Readers), and have my kids read to me 10 minutes each day. Two of my kids are dyslexic and I need to make sure they are progressing. My oldest loves to read, so probably next year I'll have it be a more Independent thing with the progeny press guides that MFW recommends in 7th. My younger two will continue to read to me until I'm satisfied that they can do it. I have them read, and sometimes I ask questions and sometimes just have them narrate.

-Trish
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TriciaMR
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Question about reading in Second Grade and above

Unread post by TriciaMR »

albanyaloe wrote:We discovered MFW too late for me to use MFW 1st Grade with my dd. I like to teach phonics till 3rd grade as I think it helps with spelling. So dd is 8yo, and we combine CLE reading and R&S for phonics.

However, for reading, I am thinking I must ditch the little CLE workbooks that have lots of questions about the stories and just let her read. It's kind of hard for me to tell if she has reading issues or not, because her brother was such a strong reader, and I don't hear other children read. She's not as strong as her brother at reading and sometimes makes up words when reading, nothing at all like the unfamiliar word, which I find weird! I remember my son really enjoying tackling a new word, he saw it as a challenge and would chunk it up and try to pronounce it till it sounded it correct, but I have noticed she is fearful and unsure. I really don't know how to help her. I have even wondered if I should have her assessed, but am wary as often these people are anti-homeschooling. My Mother, who was a junior primary teacher, has heard her read, and says we must just be patient and keep encouraging her, she's doing fine. We did get her eyes checked, and they are fine.

I have questioned what good all that tedious written work did for my son- it seemed a time filler, the answers were so obvious. He was a good reader to begin with, and had no issues with comprehension, making inferences, or vocabulary etc. My dd doesn't either have problems in these areas, though I do think she needs more practice reading aloud.

What I am asking is, could I just let my daughter read aloud, or what important skills could we be missing if we ditched the reading workbook and just spent time reading aloud and discussing our chapter?

Thank you,
Lindy
Lindy,

I have 2 dyslexic kids - never formally "diagnosed," but I found a list online (Susan Barton's list), and 2 of my kids fit several of the things on there. I did Abeka with my oldest through 2nd grade. My younger 2 had Abeka for K, and then MFW 1st. Abeka's 1st and 2nd grade phonics is like you described: lots of worksheets and not sure that they really helped that much.

What I've seen with my two who struggle (my oldest, and one of my twins), is that in 3rd grade I saw/see big gains. I use All About Spelling with both (well all of them), and I feel like that has really helped in the reading department. It is a spelling program, but it really helps with the reading. My son last night read aloud from his Bible, and did great! I was so amazed. I also have them read to me about 10 minutes a day from grade-level readers (Abeka and Pathway Readers). You can use at grade-level and below grade-level readers from the library just as well. I think kids that struggle just need more repetition, and I think easy readers are a good place to start. I saw my dyslexic kids just "make up words" that might fit (but maybe not even start with the same letter), but my non-dyslexic kid sees them as a challenge and will sound them out.

I think continuing to work on Spelling and then having them read aloud is a good thing until you feel like they are quite fluent.

-Trish
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Poohbee
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Re: Question about reading in Second Grade and above

Unread post by Poohbee »

In answer to your question, YES! :-) Just let your daughter read aloud. My oldest was a struggling reader until 4th grade. Then she really took off. But, what I did with her was to do phonics in 1st grade. For second grade, I found books at her level and just had her read aloud to me each day. Usually the books were leveled readers, you know...Step 1 or 2 or Level 1 or 2 or something like that. I asked her questions about what she was reading, or asked her to narrate the story to me in her own words, but she didn't have to do any worksheets or book reports or anything like that. She just needed practice reading...and lots of it. That continued during her 3rd grade year. She still read some Step 2 or 3 leveled readers, and she was able to start some easy chapter books, such as Junie B. Jones and Magic Tree House. Finally, in 4th grade, she just took off in her reading, and now she is a very strong reader.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, during those formative years in reading, the best thing is for them to get lots of practice reading and to learn to enjoy reading. So, letting your child choose books he or she will be interested in is important, too. In the early years of learning to read, you don't need to have them do worksheets or answer questions for each page they read. They don't need to do literary analysis at that age. They just need to read, read, read.
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Julie in MN
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Re: Question about reading in Second Grade and above

Unread post by Julie in MN »

Based on my experience tutoring with a very worksheet-driven program, I did not see the fill-in-the-blanks transfer to student understanding or writing, except in rare instances where kids were really interested in what the worksheets were teaching them - I remember just two or three students out of hundreds. So that's my bias. And that's why I wouldn't feel guilty giving them up. After all, students learned throughout history without worksheets, until the last century.

However, they still need a teacher's time.

Also, I am of the opinion that reading aloud is *not* the same skill as reading to oneself, so I would not panic if read-aloud skills are not keeping up. I wrote a very long post about that back a while :~
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 532#p77532
There are some other good posts on that thread about reading skills.

Julie
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Ruby
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Re: Question about reading in Second Grade and above

Unread post by Ruby »

your mom is smart. listen to her.
don't get your daughter assessed.
ditch the workbooks. i think reading comprehension can be done by having her read something she's interested in and discussing the reading.
again, for emphasis, ditch the reading program. you don't learn to read by doing a formal reading program, you learn to read by reading books and other quality materials. just give her time and space and don't push it or you may turn her off and read to her and let her read till the cows come home and then some.
TriciaMR
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Read alouds vs. Independent reading

Unread post by TriciaMR »

scrapper4life wrote:Once our kiddos are independent readers (approx grade 2 and up) I see that read alouds are still part of the weekly plan. Do the children read aloud or are those for me to read to them? I guess I'm just concerned that I do not see a "reading" subject after grade 2 listed in the details of each grade level's curriculum. This is a literature/"living books" curriculum so I'm sure there is a lot of encouragement to read throughout. However, are there lists of readers/independent reading the child to do as well? Is there time set aside in the daily lesson plans for independent reading?
There is (or was in all my first edition TMs) a block that says "Reading." There are recommendations in the back for classics at each grade level. I have my kids read Abeka or Pathway readers to me (some of my kids are dyslexic, so I need to make sure they are reading correctly). The front of the TM suggests the kids read about 30 minutes a day from their "reader." Then there is "Book Basket" which are books that are related to the actual topics being studied. My kids read those to themselves, and then if they find them interesting will tell me about the books. Think of Book Basket as a Buffet - where the kids try a little of this, a little of that, and maybe a whole serving of mac & cheese.
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ruthamelia
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Re: Read alouds vs. Independent reading

Unread post by ruthamelia »

I am a strong believer in continuing read aloud for independent readers- this is the kids being read to, not reading aloud themselves. (Have you ever read Jim Trelease's Read Aloud Handbook?). I was raised this way myself, and don't remember ever getting tired of hearing my dad read to us. We are in CTG now and the read aloud books continue to be a big hit. One of the key points I remember from Trelease's book is that kids can be read to at a much higher reading level than they can read to themselves, leading to greater vocabulary development, richer content, etc.

Reading is on the grid as Tricia said- at least in ECC and CTG, that's as far as we are. We alternate kids choosing a reading book on their own or me choosing from my list. The lists in the back if the teacher's manuals have great suggestions by grade level. So they are spending time each day doing independent reading. There aren't lists of assigned reading for each grade level, just the recommendations. I like this because it allows a lot of flexibility for individual interests and reading ability.

Then, as already mentioned, there is Book Basket scheduled most days. Again, this is independent reading related to the science and history or geography topics for the week. We get a sizeable collection from the library and they spend time reading what they find most interesting.
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scrapper4life
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Re: Read alouds vs. Independent reading

Unread post by scrapper4life »

Thank you both! I'm really enjoying the learning process and this forum is very helpful!

A follow up question...

Other reading curriculum I've found provides phonics/word "rules" up through 3-4 grade. So I'm wondering if MFW covers that sort of content in the recommended Spelling by Sound and Structure or does that sort of thing continue in the TM? Language Arts is the huge sticking point with my dh. Sorry for all the questions but I'm just trying to put him at ease.

I realize there many forms of reading utilized (read aloud, Book Basket, etc.)
TriciaMR
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Re: Read alouds vs. Independent reading

Unread post by TriciaMR »

MFW covers almost all the phonics rules in 1st grade. Spelling by Sound and Structure reinforces those for 2nd grade. In 3rd grade (or older) you can use Spelling Power. For my dyslexic kids who have needed more repetition than MFW 1st grade, I have used All About Spelling. It has worked wonders.
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Joyhomeschool
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Re: Read alouds vs. Independent reading

Unread post by Joyhomeschool »

Phonics after 1st grade is covered by the Spelling suggestions like Tricia said.

I also see a lot of instruction in the Language Lessons curriculum like there, their, and they're and too, to, two or adding "S" to make words plural. I choose to have my emergent readers read aloud to me 15 min a day and use our phonics chart or remind them of phonics rules as we go.
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manyblessings
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Question about Reading Grades 2 to 6

Unread post by manyblessings »

I know that Book Basket and Reading are different things on the daily grid in the lesson plans, and I know that only grades 7 and 8 recommend a literature program (Progeny Press guides). What is recommended to cover Reading for the younger grades? Do I simply assign them books and have them read them? Or is there some guidance in the Teacher's Manuals on how to include this subject without adding an actual literature program? Just looking ahead :)
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TriciaMR
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Question about Reading Grades 2 to 6

Unread post by TriciaMR »

manyblessings wrote:
Sat Apr 16, 2016 6:07 pm
I know that Book Basket and Reading are different things on the daily grid in the lesson plans, and I know that only grades 7 and 8 recommend a literature program (Progeny Press guides). What is recommended to cover Reading for the younger grades? Do I simply assign them books and have them read them? Or is there some guidance in the Teacher's Manuals on how to include this subject without adding an actual literature program? Just looking ahead :)
In the back of the TM's is a list of classic books, divided by grade level, so you could use that.

Me, I have 2 dyslexic kids, so I buy (used) grade-level readers from Pathway and Abeka and have my kids read to me about 10 minutes a day, just to make sure they're progressing, at least until about 6th grade.
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Julie in MN
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Re: Question about Reading Grades 2 to 6

Unread post by Julie in MN »

Agreeing with Trish that the manual gives you guidance, if you'd like help choosing books to read. There's both a list of classics divided by grade level and the book basket list which often has notes about the best age levels.

Other parts of a typical "reading program" are in there but aren't called "reading." For example, you're probably familiar with the narration in history & geography, and that takes care of some of the comprehension and a little vocabulary work in cases when there's a step up in reading level. Casual conversation about books being read can do this, too.

Of course, some parts of a typical "reading program" are unnecessary in a home school. You don't have 30 kids with the need to ensure they have each actually read their assigned book, as some classroom teachers do.

Like Trish, some families find it helpful to add something for an individual student's weak area. You've probably done this plenty of times. When my son was misunderstanding the whole point of some books, I did a couple things to address that. But this will really depend on your student. I think every student needs to be reading daily, but some will be voracious readers who don't need anything to come between them and their books, as Charlotte Mason would say, or to sour the "learning to love to read" stage, as David Hazell would say. If you notice an area of weakness, this board is a good resource for good ideas. Here's a similar thread that could have some gems :)
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=15032

Julie
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manyblessings
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Re: Question about Reading Grades 2 to 6

Unread post by manyblessings »

Thanks for the replies-trying to resist the urge to add unnecessary supplements to a great curriculum ;) I couldn't understand in the past why there wasn't a literature "program" in the lower grades, but your responses have helped reassure me :)
Lourdes
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