3rd grader (or advanced 2nd) - Adventures vs. ECC?

[kellybell]

My 3rd grader covered American History

I am trying to determine whether Adventures or ECC would be right for my family. Although my son will be in 1st grade, he is more advanced than MFW 1st grade. Also, my 3rd grade daughter will be included in our studies. We covered Early American History this past school session, and I really wanted to go more global this coming session.
Mommmmy to Olivia (7), David (5), Fiona (3), and Ian (baby)

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 11:44 am
Laura Lee,
Either option would probably work for your family. It sounds like you are leaning towards ECC and I think you could make it work.

If you choose ECC, do it with your two oldest children. Don't expect your first grader to do a lot of writing. Make sure you fill the book basket with things that he can easily read or look at. Also, be sure to do all the crafts and music together, as he'll get a lot from that. If you tend to use videos, look for some good ones on the countries, cultures, and biomes that you study. Build in lots of field trips (to the Indian restaurant, to the zoo's African exhibit, to a Chinese market, you get the picture...). He'll get a lot out of ECC.

Make sure he's got some math activities to fit his level and work with phonics if he still needs help on difficult words.

Then, when the two babies are old enough for ECC, include your son (the second oldest kid) in ECC. He'll pick up on anything that he missed.

If, when you get a grasp on ECC, you think it's too much for your first-grader, you can always just do MFW-1 with him (even if he's advanced) since it doesn't take much time.

Let us know what you figure out.

[Lucy]

Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:29 pm
Hi Laura Lee,

ECC is not suggested as a main program for kids before age 7 or 2nd grade, and that being only with an older sibling. The primary reason for this is the length of the school day. ECC is a longer day and requires more memory work. Although he may be an advanced reader this does not mean he would be ready for more school in his day. He is still just 6 and needs the freedom to play and explore. You could do it but just not expect as much from him, but I would highly suggest that you wait. Why?

1. Your oldest is only in 3rd and you could delay beginning the cycle years for 1 more year. Because once you start the cycle you are going to move on and the amount of information and the themes in the following years are much more meaty with info especially in the history area, and really better suited for children who are a little bit older. It is true that 2nd graders join their older siblings in these programs but at points they are not able to do as much in the programs until the following year.

2. Secondly, it would give your first grader a year to develope his other Lang. Arts skills as well as to become a better reader before moving on. Adventures was written for 2nd and 3rd graders as well as Advanced 1st graders in mind.

I realize that you have just done US History but this is a thourough overview of all the states and you make a great notebook with each state along with major historical events that took place as those states were coming into the union.

The science and bible are also wonderful for the ages of your kids. In bible you study the names of Jesus and when possible you do a science concept that relates to it. Example would be when you learn about Jesus is the bread of life or living water or the rock, then you study those themes in science as well, bringing home the concrete concept of who Jesus is and what he is like. You also study about the state birds and flowers.

The art is also a wonderful age appropriate addition to this year as well. There is so much more to the Adventure program that just history and all very age appropiate for you kids.

I know that you have to make the final decision but I would really suggest from my own experience with MFW to wait a year and enjoy the Adventures program before moving on. Your kids will probably not mind that much. My kids had US History before we started MFW in 2nd and 4th grade, but not in nearly such a well laid out and complete program as Adventures.

You will not make a "wrong" decision either way because you know your kids and their interests and abilities. I am just trying to help you think through your situation as best I can.

He is faithful and He will show you the best for your kids.
Lucy

[lauraleecole]

Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 9:15 pm
Thank you all for your great concern and encouragement. I will be praying about this heartily!

I am leaning towards Adventures because I am a sentimental mommy and I don't want to start the track just yet. And, although my daughter works above her grade level, I don't want to push her too far ahead of my son just yet. This will give them one more year in this sweet early elementary season to enjoy and explore together. AND, being new to MFW, Adventures will give me a good feel for the curriculum and whether it's a good fit for our family BEFORE we need to start a track SOMEWHERE!

All of my info comes from these websites, which is why I am greatly indebted to anyone who graciously replies to any of my posts!

[Julie in MN]

This is my first year homeschooling and I am trying to decide where I should start my soon to be 3rd grader. I have a kindergartner to be and a 1 year old underfoot as well. I would love to get in the ECC cycle, but I don't know if I should wait until?? Any advice out there?? Thanks!

Hello & welcome to homeschooling :o)

I did ECC with a 3rd grader who had just come home to school & we had a great year. (I had already been homeschooling a high schooler, tho.) It also works out very well because he can repeat ECC in 8th grade before he starts the high school sequence.

However, if Adventures had been available at the time, I think I might have gone with that instead. It's a shorter day so there is more time to adjust to homeschooling and to focus on character training, chores, service, and such. Another advantage would be that your children will all be a bit older as you head into the meatier levels.

That said, I know either choice will work. Take a careful look at your child educationally and emotionally. Look honestly at whether you will be okay waiting a few years to cover American history (your children will be, but will you :o) Then of course pray, & look for peace with one choice or the other!

Julie

[nehschooler2three]

Hello!
This will be my first year homeschooling also, and i am also bringing my soon-to-be 3rd grader home and will have a K too with a 2 1/2 year old. I bought the adventures deluxe and K. i have had a chance to look through them and they will be perfect.

When i visited with the mfw office this is what they also suggested, but let the Lord lead you in your decision. I just wanted to let you know my experience and that I'll also pray for you that the decision would be made clear, which ever way the Lord leads you!

Jill

[Sheila in OK]

I also think I would go with Adventures. Its an easy, fun day, and would be very "doable" alongside of K. Then your K'er would be that much older next year when you started ECC, so they would be closer together starting the cycle. Make any sense?

You are really in a good place, though, since either ECC or Adventures should work very well for your situation.

[claraskids]

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 8:05 pm

I'm so glad that I didn't rush my dd right to ECC but chose ADV for her third grade year. As this is our first full year homeschooling, I really wanted it to be successful and encourage good work habits. It is really working out well in that department.

Also even though, some material is easy for her, she loves having the time to spend digging into subjects that intrigue her. I think that is even more important as that's the learning that she will retain.

[StarrMama]

Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:59 pm

We are doing Adventures also and LOVING IT!!!!!!

We just started week 8. We totally love the extras such as art, music and Spanish as well as the read-alouds and activities.

We are able to add another art book, since art is one of her giftings, and do that once a week.

It's amazing how well laid out it all is and only takes a few hours daily. I blog about our adventures in Adventures regularly.
~Rose

[AnointedHsMom]

Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2007 12:44 am

We are doing Adventures for 2nd grade but my son is 8. In our house we don't do K until they turn 6.

He's having a great time with it and really likes it. He loves doing the map work.

As far as doing Adv. for 3rd grade I don't think that's a problem at all. I was encouraged to NOT do ECC at 8 years old by a wise woman on this board. So we are doing Adv. at 8 and will do ECC at 9 years old.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it LOL.
Paige in TN

[cbollin]

If you do Adv in third... Is it a big deal that your oldest doesn't get to repeat ECC in eighth?

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 2:54 pm
I think that if a 4th grader does ECC and works through the cycle of programs and does 1850-MOD in 8th grade it will be ok. I'm finding that in 1850-MOD, we have the opportunity to naturally review many of the things that we learned about other countries and cultures in ECC year. In my case, it is more of a review and preview for next year b/c we will re-do ECC.

There is a lot of map work in 1850-MOD along with more details about the places that you will discuss in history. There are still the missionary biographies going on in 1850-MOD. And you are still praying for the people around the world as part of the family Bible time in 1850-MOD.

I really think that for the families who don't get to repeat ECC in 8th grade, but do 1850-MOD that year will still have a lot of the best of the best parts of the style of ECC and it will be ok. The other geography elements are going to be covered in the high school program if I've understood some of Lucy's posts about that.

-crystal

[LSH in MS]

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 3:25 pm

Also if they do ECC in 4th they will probably remember more than if they did it at a younger age thus it's not as important to repeat it. Although my son (who did it in 2nd) still remembers a lot of it. We did it 3 years ago. We review the Geography using free online geography games.
Lori

[claraskids]

Is Adventures considered too easy for 3rd graders? Is ECC too hard?

Posted: Fri Feb 01, 2008 4:50 pm

We are currently using Adv with a third grader. Definitely not too easy. For her it seems just about right. Pretty flexible.

[TurnOurHearts]

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:06 am

I used ADV last year with my son for second grade and am currently using ECC with him as a third grader (with a 1st grader doing MFW1 & tagging along).

Honestly, you could go either way. The way I feel, ADV is a perfect "bridge" year into the older years. We haven't had any trouble using ECC with our son, and I can honestly say I thoroughly LOVE both programs. I don't think you'd need to beef up ADV, nor do I think you'd have to scale back ECC - not anymore than any of us do with our 3rd graders (ie: with the geography packets). Just me, I'd probably do ADV simply because I could - then you get the benefit of both. ;)

Are you near where a convention will be held? It's amazing how holding it in your hand can sway you one way or the other.

Also, I wouldn't worry about getting in over your head with MFW. Honestly, if I can homeschool, anyone can. I don't fall into the overly "organized" category, nor do I fall in with the "crafty" bunch. I'm just faithful to show up everyday. Between God's amazing mercy, Marie Hazell's hard work & my commitment, my children are getting an amazing education - despite my shortcomings. I hope that is encouraging to you!

[MJP]

Posted: Sat Feb 02, 2008 12:30 am

I would do Adventures. Then ECC for 4th and you have the perfect schedule for your oldest, finishing the cycle in 8th grade. This will also give you another year for your younger to be older and get even more out of the cyle. Adventures is listed for 2nd or 3rd so you are in the perfect spot.

[Lucy]

Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 1:58 pm

Let me suggest that you still think about slowing it all down for a year and using Adventures . Although MFW places a high value on academics, this is not the only factor in our children's education. The biblical/character foundations that we are laying are the most important.

MFW looks at the whole family when educating and I think that the Adventures year would be more beneficial next year to both of your kids in both bible as well as academic content including the hands-on activities. Now, if you had already done Adventures there would certainly be ways in ECC that your 4 year old would benefit, but since Adventures is a younger elementary program it will be more relevant to a 4 year old and a 3rd grader, I think, than ECC.

Oh, and if you do choose Adventures, save those books for year 4 when you will use some of them with your 3rd grader (they are already written into the T.M.)

These are some thoughts for you to consider as you prayerfully consider the best option for your family.
Lucy

[Julie in MN]

I am really grappling with this and I hope some of you can help! Basically, I can tweak our history cycle so that my oldest and youngest get ECC either one time in 4th or twice, once in 3rd and once in 8th. My question is which do you think is more beneficial?

I guess what I am thinking is would it be better for them be older when they do it the first time and have it once before the rest of the cycle, or is there greater value in repeating it right before high school? I know there is no hard and fast answer here, but I also know there is much experience and wisdom on this board, so what are your thoughts???

Thanks!!

Hi there,
We did ECC in 3rd & I am very excited about doing it again in 8th. What a great foundation for high school! And the extras like current events will be perfect for my goals for ds.

In between there, life happened & we probably will only get to half of ECC the second time thru. So that's another advantage to doing it in 3rd [ edit: if you've done Adventures in 2nd ] -- there is extra wiggle room when life happens.

Julie

[TammyB]

My third and first graders are currently doing ECC, and it is going fine, but I definitely know that they would get even more out of it if they were a bit older. Honestly, the pace of Adventures would have been better for us this year (It has a lighter schedule than ECC), but we did it last year (without most of the deluxe package).

I know that some kids are real go-getters with academics, but my oldest is just not like that yet. I often read cyber chat that refers to ECC as a light program. It doesn't feel light to me! :)

What I have decided is best for us is just to do the best we can day in and day out. If I have to carry some of ECC over into next fall and start CtG later than I planned, so be it. (That is the wiggle room Julie mentioned!)

Blessings!

[Julie in MN]

I still think just starting with the next program is the best course. Like Tammy mentioned, I like my wiggle room.

The only issue, I think, is moms of oldest children having trouble holding back. ECC does not *have* to be tons more work than Adventures, if you are doing it with a 3rd grader. My 3rd grader didn't color in every single map -- sometimes I colored all the oceans blue & he just made the key etc. My 3rd grader didn't really do any of the geography packets to speak of. I made the game. He enjoyed picture books in book basket. He did most of PLL orally. He only did a science notebook page once or twice a week, I think, and at times wrote just a title. His notebook looks like a 3rd grader's notebook. He enjoys looking at it as a 7th grader now and seeing how far he's come.

But here's the catch -- he was my YOUNGESt child. Much easier to teach your youngest as if he's a 3rd grader. He's my last baby, after all. Now if he were my oldest, first-child-that-grandparents-are-closely-watching, 3rd-grade-going-on-college genius, maybe I would have had more trouble :o)

My only advice is to start by locking up anything that tempts you to do ECC as if you had a 6th grader...

- the geography packets
- Writing Strands
- and all those extras you were thinking of adding in

Play the game. Sing the songs. Take the nature walks. Have fun enjoying Our Father's World!

[cbollin]

I still think just starting with the next program is the best course.

Me too. Get ADV done now, or as much as possible, pick up with ECC next year. Dragging out a program like ADV, nah. I hear too much cyber chat out there that it just doesn’t work as well as people hoped.

The only issue, I think, is moms of oldest children having trouble holding back..

I agree!!!

In addition to holding back on amount of workload, I see another issue. One of the biggest problems that I think is out there is that homeschooling moms of oldest kid tend to have trouble holding back HELP from oldest. So listen again to what Julie is saying here and apply it. She said it well, and I’ll tag on at the end.

ECC does not *have* to be tons more work than Adventures, if you are doing it with a 3rd grader. My 3rd grader didn't color in every single map -- sometimes I colored all the oceans blue & he just made the key etc. My 3rd grader didn't really do any of the geography packets to speak of. I made the game. He enjoyed picture books in book basket. He did most of PLL orally. He only did a science notebook page once or twice a week, I think, and at times wrote just a title. His notebook looks like a 3rd grader's notebook. He enjoys looking at it as a 7th grader now and seeing how far he's come.

My only advice is to start by locking up anything that tempts you to do ECC as if you had a 6th grader...

- the geography packets
- Writing Strands
- and all those extras you were thinking of adding in

Play the game. Sing the songs. Take the nature walks. Have fun enjoying Our Father's World!

Well, agreeing very much in spirit with Julie that they don’t have to do all of it in 3rd grade. But. an oldest child will also enjoy the Great Animal Search book and read alouds from deluxe, and might like the origami book. So don’t lock those up. <wink>

And don’t lock up the World Geography book because you need it for the game. And when you do get around to Writing Strands (in 4th grade), don’t hold back help while teaching a child how to write!


From the perspective of someone who did ECC with first born homeschooling genius when she was in 2nd grader (ADV wasn’t written yet), here is some food for thought for using World Geography book packet with oldest for those of us who will have too much trouble leaving it out or at least want to try to use it with a 3rd grader. Again, if it tempts you to treat them like a 6th, 7th, or 8th grader, locking it up might be helpful.

It is ok if they struggle with latitude and longitude. Walk them through it and help them, don’t expect mastery of the concept right now. It will be easier later.

I think there are some pages in World Geography that some 3rd/2nd graders will enjoy WHEN YOU DON'T HOLD BACK HELP ON THEM AND DO THEM TOGETHER WITH YOUR CHILD. Even in the TM it suggests that you do these pages with the child (when they are old enough). My oldest and I did them together when she was in 2nd grade. And now, she does them on her own and I help my 4th grader.

Those of us who have done ADV and at least seen the back side of the State Sheets, you’ll be able to teach from a few pages in World Geography (human and physical geography summary sheets). Let them underline or highlight a favorite fact from those sheets. (So, maybe locking up the book isn’t completely necessary if you can show some restraint. LOL.)

So, if locking up the World Geography book is bit too much for you at first, then do one or two pages with your child. Have the book Intermediate World Atlas in front of you as you do the World Geography pages, and just show your child how to look things up together (don’t expect them to do this on their own just yet.) Skip the harder sheets. You don’t know all of that stuff either, so why should your 3rd grader?

But take a book basket approach to doing the book called World Geography in that you know ahead of that it is ok to not finish the book. They can do it again in a few years. Do NOT hold back help from your child while using the book, or using ECC.

Then if world geography packet book stresses your school day too much when oldest is in 3rd grade, then lock the book up as Julie said.

-crystal

[Lucy]

Thanks for all the responses! Great information. Let me be a little clearer about my situation (which I should have done in the first place:) In a nutshell, should I start Adventures now, which would mean the 2 would repeat ECC in 8th, or should I hold off, in which case they would do ECC in 4th when they are a bit older but would not repeat it.

I think the best way for you to make this decision for your family is not to consider whether you should do ECC twice or not, but to decide what is best for your family this year. Is it going to be stressful for you and your kids to try to start Adventures now and go into the summer or would it be best for you to add K lesson activities for both kids and keep reading some of the literature books for your 2nd grader, you already have, and start Adventures and First next year?

So, in short I would not decide on what to do this year based on doing ECC twice. Geography is reviewed all throughout the other 4 years in the cycle plus you can play the geography game periodically to stay fresh with the locations of the countries as well. It is not going to be all forgotten. If it works out that your daughter does ECC twice great, but if not that will be fine too.

Praying God will lead you and give you a peace about what is best for your family for the rest of this year.
Lucy

[dhudson]

I will be homeschooling my two girls (7yr & turning 9yr) next year and not sure which curriculum to choose. My first instinct is Adv. but I'm having second thoughts. They are both advanced readers and excel academically. I am wondering if Adv. will be too easy or ECC will be too hard?? I want our year to be both fun and challenging. Are there any benefits to starting with Adv. instead of jumping into ECC?

Kase

I'd go with ADV and then ECC the next year. You'll get the benefit of doing all of MFW's programs and ADV has a great Bible that I think is worth taking the time to go through.

[bunnytracks]

I choose ADV when mine were 2nd and 3rd graders and LOVED it. It is a perfect fit for those grade levels.

[my3sons]

I have a soon to be 9 year old who will be in the third grade this year and a just turned 7 year old who will be in the 1st grade (though he did MFW 1st grade this past year and excelled-- that grade level is more for social reasons outside of the home). We did Adventures last year and loved it and will be doing ECC this year with them.

I do not think Adventures would be too easy (and you can adapt it a bit), but ECC would be an okay fit academically as well. Perhaps you get to choose based on what you want to do this year! Have you looked long-term on how the cycle will work out to help with your decision?

[cbollin]

You could go either way and not really be wrong. I'd lean toward using Adventures and just making sure that older one was doing writing at level (which means the extra dictation lessons on Thursday in ADV started in week 6) and using book basket to the fullest.

If they get done with school quickly, look for ways to have Productive, Unstructured Afternoons, or be able to do more service projects. If they need more "school time", add in foreign language, or make sure they know how to cook and clean. (I needed to do more cleaning and organizing with oldest, but didn't). Or things like music class.

If oldest is going to be 3rd grade, you'll be ok in ADV --- book basket is full. Let her help set up and clean up all of the science stuff (adding skills).

-crystal

[RachelT]

Hi Kase! My kiddos are now 8 and 6, but will be going into 3rd and 1st grades next year. We did Adventures this year and it was wonderful! I think that either would probably be fine; although we haven't actually begun ECC, I've looked at it a lot for next year. Crystal already gave you great ways to make it more challenging. For our situation, we did most everything, but couldn't even do the art or foreign language, yet, but I'm also working with some recently diagnosed learning challenges for my ds.

Anyway, my point is that I think you could have plenty to do in Adventures and my kids have such a better understanding of and appreciation for our country now. They know so much more about our history, some of the most famous history figures, and a basic understanding of how important freedom has been in our country. I am so excited this year for the 4th of July to roll around because I think it will mean so much more. ECC will be great, too. But I like the order of doing Adventures first and gaining a basic knowledge of our states and our history in our own country before delving into all of the world.

Rachel