3rd grader (or advanced 2nd) - Adventures vs. ECC?

[jasntas]

I am really, really excited about ECC because my dc are very much into geography and learning about other countries. My dd will be in 3rd gr and dd will be in 2nd (he's only 6 though).

We are doing Adv. and got behind (story of my life). Anyway, I had planned on doing it through the summer. As I was paging through Adv, I really hate rushing through, especially since I have a lot of other books that I can use with it. I am rethinking my plan, and wondering if we should really dedicate the year to ADV, so we can get the most out of it.

Is ECC somthing that would be better and that they would get more out of when they are a little older anyway? Or, by 4th grade, will I feel like I need to start Ancients with them and be too impatient to do ECC?

Yes, I am a little crazy!! It's just that everything looks so good! Sorry if this is so confusing.
Tammi

If I understand correctly, your oldest will be in 3rd next year? We did ADV this year with a 3rd grader and K'er and it has been great for us. It is geared toward 2nd and 3rd graders as you probably already know. If you start with ECC when your oldest is in 4th you will go through the entire 5 year cycle by the time that oldest is in 8th. I can't wait to start ECC this fall with my then to be 4th grader. I think you'll be fine if you just focus mostly on catching up on the core subjects until the end of this school year and start fresh next fall with ADV. I would add in some good read alouds and maybe a few spring crafts or something so no one gets burned out on just work, work, work. Just my 2 cents.

[Amy C.]

This is what I really wanted to hear! I want to get the most out of Adv., but I was afraid some of the things in ECC would be too "babyish" for my (would be) 4th grader, if we waited a year to do it. I want to get the most out of all of the programs, and for them to really enjoy them.

ECC is not babyish at all for a 4th grader. It is written for 3rd-8th grade. So you don't have anything to worry about there. It has been challenging enough for both my 5th and older 3rd grader (late birthday). I think you will be glad you waited another year to do ECC.

Amy C.

[Julie in MN]

I but I was afraid some of the things in ECC would be too "babyish" for my (would be) 4th grader, if we waited a year to do it.

My son is an 8th grader and he's learning lots in ECC, so I think you can rest easy!

[momtogc]

Ditto to what everyone else has said. I will just add that we are also completing Adventures this month with my third grade daughter and we'll be doing ECC next year in fourth. ADV is a wonderful study and I (we) highly recommend it. If asked, my daughter is emphatic when she says that no one should skip Adventures because it has been so great! She has loved every minute of it.

Speaking of geography, I have found ADV to be a wonderful way to teach US geography. We hung a large US map on the wall and each time we do a state sheet I have dd find our homestate on the map. I ask her to tell me which direction the state we are studying is from our home. We also talk about which states are north or south, east or west of the particular state, or where it is in relationship to an ocean or lake or river. We have traced with our fingers the routes of pioneers and have followed US rivers. We search out many things on our map. There is so much you can do to add that geography flavor to the study and I believe it has laid a good foundation for the future world geography study with ECC.

FWIW, if I remember correctly, last year when I was considering whether to do ADV or ECC, David Hazell said that ECC is a longer day than ADV. That played into our decision making and I'm glad we chose to go ahead and do ADV first. No regrets!

Hope this helps in some way!

[SonShineJewel]

I am trying to figure out where the best placement would be for my ds who will be in 3rd grade this August. While I love HOD, the readings are just too short and not enough time for for my youngest child to use his visual/spatial skills to really grasp the lessons - just as I'm finishing the reading he's just starting to get the concept. kwim? I really need something scripted and something that is manageable and for whatever reasons - MFW continues to be a draw for me for this child. (I do have 3 other children that are entering 6, 10th and 12th)

I'm trying to figure out if he'd be more engaged and challenged in Adventures or ECC. I keep hearing how people wished they had waited until their child was a bit older for ECC but I'm concerned that there is not enough challenge with Adventures. I've tried SOTW Book 2 (which he stated was the most boring story he ever heard) so really trying to capture his attention. He does not write a lot and we are still finishing phonics instruction. He's a natural reader/speller but not ready to make the total switch from some pictures and words to no pictures and all words.

Any advice?
Heidi

Hi,
I know others will chime in; but, until then:

If you are not using MFW for your older children, I'd suggest using ADV.

[schoolmom2]

I used Adventures with my 3rd grade son last year, after pulling him out of public school at Christmastime. I was also wondering if it would "be enough" for him. I was very pleased overall. The science was a bit light after what he had been doing in ps, so we beefed it up a little with some lapbooks.

We are using ECC this year, and loving it again. I don't know that I would have done so well with ECC last year, with it being our first year of homeschooling. But it sounds like you've been homeschooling for awhile, so you'd do fine.

The Properties of Ecosystems book might be a bit much for your son, if he's not quite through with phonics and more words per page. I find myself having to read it for myself, then summarize or explain many parts, because the language can be over my kids' heads. But, that's not a huge deal if you have the time.

I really think you could go either way. Both years are super fun, and my kids learned SO much! For my two cents, I'm really glad that I didn't skip Adventures. Your son will finish the cycle right on time even including Adventures, so why not. =)

[jasntas]

My thought is to go with ADV. If it doesn't seem to be enough it would be easy to delve a little deeper into the subjects with books basket books or add a lapbook here and there, if needed. I would try it as written. Then add if you feel the need.

ADV was also my first intro to MFW and we also used it for my ds in 3rd grade. He loved it. He also enjoys ECC but I don't know that either one of us would have been ready for ECC last year. Each child is different so not knowing you personally I don't know if it is the best fit. You will, of course, have to determine that. Look at the samples, gain insight here and pray.

If you decide to go with ADV, be sure to check out the ADV archives for ideas and/or ask for ideas if you feel you need them.

HTH

[momtogc]

I had the same concerns when my dd was going into third grade. She is an advanced reader so I was really worried about using ADV that year. Ultimately I went with ADV and have never regretted it. It is a fun, fun, fun study. It is very engaging; there are some neat hands on activities that should appeal to any young boy or girl. My dd was still very young at heart so I found the level of study that Adventures encompasses to be a great fit. Some of the scheduled reading can be short, but you can get library books on topic and read as much as you and your ds want. You can find picture books to go along with it, too, so you won't have to make that switch to all words with no pictures.

This year in fourth grade we used ECC. We found it to be more "challenging" than ADV but by that I mean it is harder, or more advanced, if those are the right words to use. The school day took us longer, too. While a third grader can do the work in ECC, I believe it takes a mature mind to really grasp the material. Without a doubt it would have been too much for my dd when she was in third grade. And I'm glad I didn't require that of her when she was still so young. ADV is challenging in a gentle sort of way that I think is so perfectly suited to help make that transition into fourth.

I hope this helps you some. It can be a daunting task to make a curriculum choice. I know the Lord will give you direction and peace in your decision.

Meleasa

[Julie in MN]

Hmmm... I do think you could go either way. I'll just contribute by adding more thoughts on both sides of the fence

I used ECC with a 3rd grader (Adventures wasn't written yet) and it was a wonderful year. But I think if Adventures would have been out, I would have chosen that. Mostly because of all the fun early American stuff for that age level. And for lots of time for the basics of language arts (my ds was an advanced reader, but needed some remedial phonics like yours) and math. I also think there's a lot to studying all 50 states, some presidents, and basic American history -- plenty of opportunity to do handicrafts and read literature from each state and play fun puzzles & games about these topics.

However, I do think that since he's your youngest (like mine was), he is probably a bit more mature in certain ways that kids keeping up with older siblings tend to be, so he may be ready for more in ECC. He may even *want* to move forward in his schooling. Also as a parent, ECC will be easy enough for you to tailor to his young needs, since you won't be excited to push him ahead like we usually are with our firstborns Like I mentioned, ECC was a wonderful year with my 3rd grader. We delved into fairy tales, cooked lots of international foods, and grew lots of plants

Hope that helps you think it thru & doesn't make it worse
Julie

[far above rubies]

Oh you sound like me!! We started out with MFW, switched to HOD, and found our way back to MFW last year and finally feel as though we've come back home.

We did go with ADV for her 3rd grade year and I'm so happy we did!!!! It was the best year of our school history. This upcoming year we're going to go on into ECC and I definitely feel as though she's mature enough to appreciate ECC (as well as my upcoming 2nd grader).

So, going with ADV definitely gets my vote.

[gratitude]

We are planning to use MFW for the first time this Fall after 8 years of homeschooling. My oldest will be in 9th and (hopefully) ready for AHL.

I've been planning to place my youngest in ADV but now am wondering if it might not be better to start in ECC. He will be in 3rd grade. Overall, he is at grade level other than in reading. He is about a semester behind due to eye issues and surgery that took place when he was 4. I thought it would be better to start with ADV in 3rd because it is gentler; but will it be too easy for him? With him, we have been eclectic in our curriculum choices (slanted in a Charlotte Mason direction) and have used a much gentler approach than with son #1. (I come from a teaching background and it was hard to break habits learned in the classroom at first.) I'd love to hear from experienced MFW users who used ECC with a 3rd grader. I know most of the history from ADV will be covered again later in the history cycle so he won't be missing anything. Any other reason it would be better to start in ADV vs ECC?

I may call MFW myself before making a final decision.I just wanted to hear feedback from users as well. Thanks.

I don't want to be first to reply due to limited experience, and I didn't want to sway you one way or the other. However, I thought I would chime in with our experience.

My ds8 is at the older end of 2nd with a summer Birthday (so he could be a young 3rd this year). When I tried ECC with him this past September, at just turned 8, he wasn't ready. At the time he was a very advanced reader, but was at the same time still struggling with writing and spelling (He is in a different place 6 months later). The science was too advanced for him, the geography was fine, some of the hero books he would have enjoyed while others would have been beyond what his sensitive soul is probably ready for, and the rest I didn't do enough of to really have an answer for. We decided to wait until age 9 or 9 1/2 or ?. I noticed that your son would be 8 1/3. Hopefully, others will chime in for the ECC part since this experience is limited.

ADV is one of those programs that can be as hard or easy as you choose to make it. It is about the names of Jesus, which is the best part in my mind. If you do a lot with book basket, extra history books, books for each state for the state study, etc. it could become a very full program. Marie lists hundreds of books in the appendix to find at a library to add to both the history and state study as they learn some about America. The note booking is around a 2nd/3rd grade level. Narration and summarizing a sentence and writing it down was a challenge for my avid reader. There isn't a lot of note booking in the program, but they do a history note book and it is enough for this age group. The Bible is incredible. So if you skipped ADV you would miss the names of Jesus that is at the end of the first Bible cycle for MFW. They do 3 Bible cycles for their entire program.

I hope someone does come along with far more experience, but I thought I would share with you our 8 year old start to ECC and a little about ADV.

[Julie in MN]

I wrote up something here, and there are more thoughts along the thread:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 149#p74149

Sorry to be lazy but I typed too much in my last post about how much I love ECC ( http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 303#p82303 )

Even so, I would have loved to have done Adventures as well, but alas it wasn't out yet. My youngest was in public school for 2nd grade and they "studied the 50 states" -- each child made one "parade float" out of a shoebox, my son did Texas, then they had a parade and that was it. Adventures seems like a geyser compared to that

Julie

[ckgreen]

Gratitude, Thank you for your reply. You voiced thoughts that I had about both programs. I knew I could make ADV work by adding here and there. It looks like a great year and I feel he would have a lot of fun with it. Although he is a little behind in reading (and who knows he may catch up by Aug/Sept), his writing and spelling are actually very good. He also gives the most wonderful narrations--so detailed. So he would be okay in that respect, but I can see that the science would be better suited to him in the 4th grade as well as some of the read alouds. And he would also miss out on the ADV Bible if we skipped it. Thanks again for your thoughts.

Julie, Thanks for the link to the older discussion. I was looking for something like that. There are some good thoughts and information in that thread which should help me make a decision. At this point, I am leaning toward ADV for my 3rd grader. Thanks so much!

[far above rubies]

We did ADV when my oldest was in 3rd grade and it was perfect. I'm glad we waited until she was in the 4th for ECC. There was plenty to build her skills in ADV and we have some great memories.

In fact, if I were to do it over and I knew then what I know now, if I started ADV for an oldest 2nd grader, I would make it into a 2 year program.

[erin.kate]

I'm a terrible person to reply since I'm at a crossroads of using Adv over two years or finishing it as-is currently through May. My oldest is in 2nd grade and I was sure that ECC would have been better for her as a 4th grader, but I bought ECC and it is so special. Incredibly special. There's another thread right now about what everyone has loved about ECC ... you should read it if you have a minute. It might help you in your decision.

The thing that I always come back to with regard to doing ECC in 3rd vs 4th is that he/she can come around to it again in 8th grade just before venturing off into the history cycle again in HS, at a much more in depth level. That child can then help teach the material to any younger siblings and there are so many amazing missionary bios to delve into again, really pricking a child's heart as a youngster, but again as they spread their wings and venture into high school.

Best to you in your ponderings.

[momtogc]

This question seems to come up a lot. I commented on it in the discussion that Julie linked to but I have to chime in here just to say, I'm a *huge* fan of Adventures for third graders. We did it in third grade and loved it! Just like you, I struggled to make the choice between ADV and ECC. My dd has always been advanced in reading so I had concerns about it being too easy for her. But I'm sooo very glad we ultimately chose ADV. It was just right, gentle but so very rich. And fun!

Learning the names of Jesus was wonderful. We still have our Bread of Life napkin holder on our dining table (two years later ) I'm not very good with getting things together for hands on activities but Adventures made it so easy to do the projects that we were able to accomplish them with no Mommy stress. Another great aspect of it is that you'll be able to easily find great books on topic that are on a third grade reading level, even if you have a limited library like mine.

If you had other children in ECC then you would definitely want to keep them all on the same study. But since you don't, I highly recommend starting with Adventures before you jump into ECC. That's a great study, too, but you'll still get to do it next year. : ) Even though a third grade student *can* do ECC, I don't think it's necessary to always challenge a child to the hardest thing they can do.

I hope this helps a little.

: )
Meleasa

[ckgreen]

Thanks everyone for the replies. They have really helped me get the insight I needed.

I was able to get a hold of an ADV teachers guide to look through from someone in our co-op. It's 1st edition but it is essentially the same. I really like the looks of ADV. It should be great for my little guy. Thanks again.

[cbollin]

Hi all, I found this website because a friend who hs's highly recommends the curriculum. My dd is currently enrolled at a christian school, but has asked me to homeschool her. I am looking at curriculums. She loves to learn and is advanced for her age. She is already reading at the end of third grade level (by teacher's eval, not mine), writes well, creatively writes, loves art, understands multiplication etc.

So I was all set to buy the curriculum, but then received the catalog. On page 7, there's a box that reads, "Is my child ready for 2nd grade using adventures?" And it lists what a second grader should be able to do. They include: copying 1-2 sentences, read a story and write simple sentences about it, read easily etc. Well, all those things she was able to do in kindergarten. Is she going to be bored with this curriculum?

One of the reasons she has asked me to homeschool her is she told me she hasn't learned much at school this year.
THanks for any help.

Welcome along!

If she's doing all of that, you have options to think about.

1. do Adventures with advanced assignments. It just means you'll require a bit more on the writing than a student who hasn't learned those skills yet. Often those placement recommendations in MFW's catalog are geared toward the younger student who might be deciding between 1st or 2nd grade. If the advanced first grader is reading advanced, but not writing advanced, then those guidelines are helpful.

An advanced 2nd grader will do the advanced copywork and dictations and have more in the notebooking section. Other language arts and math and reading will be at individual skill level. So there's plenty in the program as you adjust to homeschooling and adding in any co-ops and all of that.

I know there are others who have advanced students using ADV. and there was even a thread a few days ago that might be a fun one to see. (I realize you're new to the forum.. so here's a link to welcome you to some recent discussions that are similar, but not exact to yours. And from the subject line of the topic it isn't obvious how similar of situation. So, I just want to let you hear that conversation with various tips in there.

http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12329

2. Another option would be if you've covered US history and geography in the school, then you might look into doing ECC and scaling back a little as needed.

Take a look at the full packages of each program with various electives. Sometimes with advanced 2nd graders, one option isn't to advanced to ECC, but rather to add in foreign language, and doing the art program. And then electives and service projects.

Math will be at level. She might test into a book number of Singapore math that doesn't match anything you'd expect. The book numbers don't necessarily mean the same as grade levels.

Looking forward to others chiming in. Welcome along and that's a great screen name, by the way.

-crystal

[gratitude]

Welcome Along! What grade is she in now? Much of home school placement, for a program like ECC, can be emotional readiness or what you are comfortable with as mom as academic. How old is she?

I am using ADV this year with an advanced 2nd grader. So the following ways are the ways I increase the level of difficulty for him:
1. I continue to give him books to read. He is a very advanced reader, so he has read a number of extra books on US History that he has enjoyed.
2. I did add some science to it; but this isn't necessary and it is possible she hasn't done any science yet which would make ADV science wonderful for her.
3. Multiplication is introduced in Singapore 1B (the numbers aren't grade level). Singapore 2A starts with triple digit borrow and carry subtraction and addition and then moves into more multiplication and division. A placement test is the best way to know where to start.
4. There are a lot of options for additional writing to the note book writing that is done in ADV. Primary language lessons has dictation and copy work and grammar and I think some writing; we have been dictating a lot lately in it. Rod and Staff English, that I add to it for grammar, has some writing in it. Writing Strands 3 has writing in it if she is really advanced and ready for it.
5. I added read-alouds to the ones in the deluxe package.
6. He is also doing Spanish with Rosetta Stone and doing fabulous with it.
7. He also is continuing to learn to draw with the art.
8. He loves to play chess, play outside, memorize verses for Awana and Sunday school, etc.. etc.
9. He reads 2 - 3 hours a day literature and history, which by itself is extra education.

I have heard the transition from school can take time. The scope and sequences for home schooling and schools can sometimes differ quite a bit in the early grades.

Lets see. For ECC the missionary stories have a lot of reality interwoven in them. Every parent is different when they want to bring that into the school day. If she is going into 2nd Crystal did do ECC with a 2nd grader before ADV was written, and it may work out to start with ECC for you; Crystal would have some good advice for that part. If she is going into 3rd, you could just start with ECC.

[Julie in MN]

We didn't start homeschooling until 3rd grade, but I would have done Adventures with him if it had been written then. It's nice to have a little intro to our own country before studying the world. It would have taught him way more than he learned about the U.S. in ps 2nd grade, and it would have been fun because there are lots of fun books and activities for that age group, with 50 states and several presidents and lots of fun stories.

Since my ds was an "advanced" student (taught himself to read before K, etc), I might have expected him to narrate more, read more in book basket, write more on his notebook pages, etc. But it would have been easier to adapt because Adventures is written only for grades 2-3 and has about a 3-hour day, while ECC is written for grades 3-8 and has about a 4-hour day.

Although of course my son did fine, loved ECC, learned about our country in there, too.

Here are some more thoughts:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6703

[Mexmarr]

I've done Adventures and based on what you said, it would work great for your daughter! Rmember that the guidelines that are mentioned are the MINiMUM that they need to be able to do. So, where lesser advanced students would only write 1-2 sentences about a topic, your dd could write 4-5(or whatever you decide). My dd read at a pretty high level when we did Adventures. It posed no problems at all. She read some of the read-alouds outloud to her siblings, rather than me read them. And you can also keep her supplied with book basket books.

Math and language arts will be done at her own level, so no problem there. If she loves art, she should enjoy the I Can Do All Things very much!

Adventures is an awesome year. I wouldn't want to skip it, for sure! It is really a great program.

[Mommy22alyns]

No, I wouldn't say that Adventures would bore her. There are so many great resources for American history that you can add on if you want to.

[laurelmarie]

My dd is an advanced student and is loving Adventures. I was concerned at first because it looked light after I got my box so I started planning add ons to vamp it up to her level. Long story short, hubby said use it as is. We are and it is working great. I do require her to write her own narrations and make them 4-5 sentences (or fill the area given). Extra books she reads gets a notebook page (drawn picture or a pic of book and a narration about the book). She spends time each day with the book basket books and reports back to me 3 things she learned while looking/reading from them. We did add an extra science because dd likes science. We are doing our own English/spelling/vocabulary program and working on a math journal instead of MFW suggestions for these. Our day is short but this gives her more time to do things she enjoys. She is not bored with Adventures at all.

[Cyndi (AZ)]

I've done Adventures and based on what you said, it would work great for your daughter! Rmember that the guidelines that are mentioned are the MINiMUM that they need to be able to do. So, where lesser advanced students would only write 1-2 sentences about a topic, your dd could write 4-5(or whatever you decide). My dd read at a pretty high level when we did Adventures. It posed no problems at all. She read some of the read-alouds outloud to her siblings, rather than me read them. And you can also keep her supplied with book basket books.

Math and language arts will be done at her own level, so no problem there. If she loves art, she should enjoy the I Can Do All Things very much!

Adventures is an awesome year. I wouldn't want to skip it, for sure! It is really a great program.

I absolutely agree with Misty. I could have written all of that - except my dd is without siblings, so she read to her stuffed animals!

My dd loves to write and was doing well when she started ADV, so I needed to use the donna young website to print out lined paper with lines that were closer together for writing. That will make more sense once you see the student sheets. I had her color the pics on the student sheets, but she always used different lined paper to write her summaries. Just a little tip for more advanced writers.

[jhagberg]

I could use some placement help.

I have a 5 yo boy (6 in Nov.) that will be doing MFW K. And I have a 7 yo boy (8 in Dec.) who I don't know if I should put in Adventures or ECC. I was thinking Adventures until I kept reading how well K and ECC go together and how well 1st goes with CtG. So, how much more advanced is ECC than Adventures? How do I know if my son is ready for ECC? Thanks for any insight you can give.

Oh, if you have the chance to do Adventures, don't skip it!