3rd-4th grader - Adventures vs. Years 4-5

[Allison TX]

Okay, I think you all have convinced me it will be too light.
Now I'm looking at ECC more closely for next year......

Has anyone tried just the Bible portion of Adventures as a stand alone summer Bible study? I just really don't want her to miss it.

[kerby]

well, I'm going to be the dissenting voice. I am using it this yr w/ ds in 2nd and dd in 4th. We haven't had a lot of solid history teaching and I wanted to keep them together. (I also wanted to keep to American history to give them a solid base about our country, not ready for ECC - which is on my shelf.) I am adding a bit more reading in for dd along w/ some science books. She's really enjoying it. It's a great step for her to work on the narration skills. There are many things skill-wise that I have enjoyed having them learn.

While it's not for everyone, it CAN work. And, in your situation, it just might fit better - adding some books to read together when the baby comes. Keeping it simple.

K

[kayben]

I decided to use it for my 4th, 2nd, and some for my 1st this coming fall. I am very excited about it. I LOVE the program. I like to have a low stress, interesting program. Remembering that we are primarily working on the basics. This is a lovely way to do history that is thorough, yet pleasant and fun! I own ECC and I knew that I would be leaving much out for the 4th grader as well as the 2nd grader. She is a good reader, but struggles with all things writing. So, in our case I ignored the grade level suggestions and am going with what I feel will fit us best. my 6th grader will be using HOD 95% independently. Again, I knew that trying to work with all of them together wasn't going to work. We will more than likely jump in next year with ECC (High School, K, and pre K) So no matter how it is sliced in my house there will always be several programs running:) I understand the why of the cycle. But I know that my kids will get leaps and bounds more from ADV. this year , rather than ECC. Good luck with your decision;)

Rebecca

[Allison TX]

Well, now I don't know what to do!

I love the Bible portion of Adventures. The rest is just history and science. If that's a grade level or so off, will it really make a difference? I am planning on grade level LA and math.

I really think this child will love the state study (my boys didn't care for it), and the American songs, and the Tchaikovsky study....

I do think she would also like ECC. But I'm worried she's not quite ready for the missionary bio's, and that seems to be a big focus of the program.

Okay, I need to think about it some more. Thanks everyone!

[momxnine]

Allison,

You sound like me, not knowing what to do! After reading all of this thread, I'm thinking seriously about doing ADV instead of CTG for the summer and on into the fall. http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=13514

My youngest is 10 (11 in Dec.). We loved ECC, but after looking at CTG some more, there is a lot more writing in it than ECC. Someone else mentioned that about their 4th grader and that they weren't really ready for the writing. Same here. He did fine with ECC and the missionary biographies were fine, but.... he's a boy. He likes some of that icky prison and gross stuff. :D If you've got a sensitive girl, maybe it might be too much. My boys laugh at me because I cry my way through those wonderful stories! lol There are some student sheets for science that were a little overwhelming for him, so we didn't do most of them. We also didn't do a lot of the country sheets that were in the Trip Around the World books. My 8th grader did all of them, but most of them were too much for my youngest.

I think the ADV bible sounds wonderful and it also sounds like it might not be too "heavy" as far as writing and such, so I think we're going to go with that and really work on narration, handwriting, spelling, etc., so when we start CTG he'll be ready for writing the summaries and such.

[Julie in MN]

Just a few notes to make sure you all have your ducks in a row as you make your big decisions!

I do think she would also like ECC. But I'm worried she's not quite ready for the missionary bio's, and that seems to be a big focus of the program.

Allison, The missionary bios are part of the deluxe package, so they are optional. My then-3rd-grader loved them, and we read many more than were scheduled, so we are fans, but they are still optional rather than central.

after looking at CTG some more, there is a lot more writing in it than ECC. Someone else mentioned that about their 4th grader and that they weren't really ready for the writing. Same here. He did fine with ECC and the missionary biographies were fine, but.... he's a boy. He likes some of that icky prison and gross stuff. :D If you've got a sensitive girl, maybe it might be too much.
...
We also didn't do a lot of the country sheets that were in the Trip Around the World books. My 8th grader did all of them, but most of them were too much for my youngest.

I think the ADV bible sounds wonderful and it also sounds like it might not be too "heavy" as far as writing and such, so I think we're going to go with that and really work on narration, handwriting, spelling, etc., so when we start CTG he'll be ready for writing the summaries and such.

Vicki, The "scheduled" writing in ECC vs. CTG does not seem like an increase to me. Maybe it's because my son typed everything, but this is how I remember it (not including Writing Strands, PLL, spelling, etc.):

The "scheduled" writing in ECC:
- vocab cards
- Bible verses
- Hero character traits
- letter writing
- science pages
- misc. pages for notebook (write on the back of flags, label maps, color pictures, easy sheets from Trip Around the World, optional sheets from World Geography)

The "scheduled" writing in CTG:
- vocab cards
- Bible verses
- letter writing
- notebook pages approximately 1x per week for history, writing according to age level (can be the same level as Adventures, or advance as able, but remember to move forward a bit each year towards high school)
- write about 4 composers over the course of the year


HTH,
Julie

[Allison TX]

Thanks, Julie. I just feel that if we leave the bios out, it wont seem like we're using ECC to the fullest. I really do want her to learn about missionaries, but she is so sensitive, I would rather wait another year. I had thought about combining this child in 1850-Mod with her two older brothers, but decided against it because of some of the heavier topics as well.

momxnine,
I agree boys are so different. My olders love all the missionary bios. They also love learning about wars and battles. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. I looked through a friends copy of CTG, and it looked wonderful! I actually think I might save ECC for the 7th or 8th grade year for my daughter, and go into CTG after Adventures. I think part of the problem for me is too many choices!

[cbollin]

Thanks, Julie. I just feel that if we leave the bios out, it wont seem like we're using ECC to the fullest. I really do want her to learn about missionaries, but she is so sensitive, I would rather wait another year. I had thought about combining this child in 1850-Mod with her two older brothers, but decided against it because of some of the heavier topics as well.

My take on the missionary biographies in 4th grade with sensitive child (like my middle gal):

*there is plenty from the Hero Tales book on that.
*and God Speaks Nummangang is a missionary story.

*also, it wasn't that bad. the books in ECC aren't these gore filled things. If you have to adjust the last chapters in Nate Saint -- just read the summary of that part in the manual.
*marie gives several heads up in the manual about the icky parts on the train with Gladys. I left that out for middle gal.

When my middle gal was 4th grade, she was able to handle these books because they had happy endings. I had to hold her and snuggle during "scary" parts... but. she was really able to handle this stuff. it has happy endings. and shows that God was with them in all things.

If you have older children in 1850MOD... would you like to hear how it went for my middle gal who was in 3rd grade when older sister was in 1850MOD? that much younger and sensitive? Well, I did what it said in the manual -and used book basket for younger and taught older from SOTW history. and used the younger sib readers.

then, one day... while reading from SOTW on a very heavy topic of WWII and communism... to my oldest... I sent middle gal to book basket. I had selected picture books on China. Middle gal kept coming back in to the kitchen while I was reading from SOTW about heavy topics. I sat the book down... "yes honey?" "oh mommy! I just wanted to say that China is a beautiful place with beautiful people and I want to go there someday to tell them Jesus loves them too."

then..... we got out the THUMB prayer time in 1850MOD and prayed for various people groups in China.

Don't overthink this stuff with multiple manuals and all of it...

fold them in.. love them tenderly and use book basket. don't be afraid of teaching as a family in these 2-8th grades.

-crystal

[TriciaMR]

I am due to have my third child this summer and will have a 3rd grader & a Kindergartener next fall. I have always wanted to try MFW. I always look longingly at it and yet I have continued to piece together our curriculum each year. Don't get me wrong - I like what we currently use, but the ease and simplicity and fun of MFW always looks very tempting! Because next year will be my most challenging year yet (with a new baby), I was thinking about finally trying MFW.

My son will be in third grade and if we continue on our cycle he should study the exploration-1850 time period next year. I really do not want to get out of order with the history cycles. For those of you who have used the Exploration-1850 package - would it be foolish to use this only for a 3rd grader? Will I have to adjust it a lot to fit his level?

Thanks!

I would go with Adventures... There is a 2nd/3rds Supplement for the EXP1850 year, so your 3rd grader wouldn't use much of the curriculum. Adventures is for 2nd graders who have done MFW K & 1st, or for a family where the oldest is in 3rd grade so they have an "easier" transition into MFW. It covers the same time period of EXP1850.

[kw4blessings]

I second Trish's recommendation to use Adventures for your 3rd grader. It is for 2nd or 3rd grade and is a great overview of American history. We haven't done Exp-1850, but it sounds like it would be way too much. You mentioned looking for ease, simplicity, and fun, and Adventures is for sure all three of these things. We are using Adv along with the K program this year and it's great. I also have a preschooler and baby, but it is not overwhelming to get it done. (We tweak here and there as needed for our family) We are getting ready to set up our bird feeder for Adv and the kids are SO excited.

You could continue to use whatever phonics/math that you've used in the past for your K'er and include him/her in whatever of the Adv program he/she wants to do. Just get an extra set of student sheets.

[lea_lpz]

Another vote for Adventures as a general over view of US History.

It's specifically designed for grades 2/3, and it can be completed in a bit less te than the mfw 5-year cycles and with a new baby you might need that wiggle room.

If you chose to stick with mfw you could complete the 5 year cycle if you start ECC in 4th grade.

A lot of people say Adventures was their favorite year so I would not want to miss it!

[gratitude]

I am trying to figure out what to use for my rising 3rd grader next year. I have homeschooled my older son for the past 2 years using TOG, but he is returning to school for 6th grade, so I will only have one child home.

I ordered Adventures because it seems to be a good place to start before starting the history cycle, and because we are doing Classical Conversations next year and it seemed to line up well. After looking the curriculum over, I think it is wonderful, but feel like it may not be enough. Maybe I feel that way because I am used to TOG, and they would include 3rd grade in Upper Grammar which is fairly challenging--but I am looking for something that is more preplanned this fall and that is why I chose MFW. The other thing is that the science does not look challenging enough. He's gifted in science and math, and would have found these books interesting in K-1 or before. Last year he made a science project explaining how different colored light affects the power a solar cell can generate. I also was disappointed that so many weeks are devoted to state studies that only involve coloring a map of that state. Maybe I am missing something?

So, I started looking at EXP-1850. I think the science and overall look of the program (and using the supplement materials for 2/3) seems like a better fit. I would just like advice.

My oldest did ADV from mid-first through second grade. We had a move in the middle and I ended up stretching it out.

He is advanced as well and at those ages he read many books on his own to go with ADV. We also did the entire Laura Ingalls series as a family read aloud; in addition to the deluxe package family read aloud books. He was advanced in science as well and did Apologia Astronomy that year since he had done ADV science experiments earlier.

Honestly, ADV wouldn't have worked in 3rd for him. It is a lovely program, but does need to fit the student. My first and pre-K tagging along really enjoyed it. He enjoyed it as well, and still remembers copying all of the scripture verses in it.

I cannot answer to Exp to 1850. Have you considered ECC?

[kaymom]

I am intersted in doing American history this year to correspond to Classical Conversations, so that's why I would jump forward to Exp to 1850. It seems very similar to ADV, except it is at a higher level. Also, instead of the weeks of state studies, they save that for the end and include more US and world history.

[Julie in MN]

If you have used TOG, you may be able to adapt EX1850 to your 3rd grader's needs. EX1850 would have been overwhelming to me with my 3rd grader, but I was just bringing him home to school that year. He did ECC and it was wonderful (and would fit alongside any history study in co-op).

Adventures studies a few of the more well-known presidents, while EX1850 introduces every president chronologically (through 1850), and has in-depth coverage of the span of George Washington's life and contributions (boy, soldier, farmer, commander, president).

Adventures spends some days learning about all 50 states using the state sheets (which are more than coloring, since they have complete state info on the backs) plus book basket, while EX1850 begins plugging in states alongside world history (states continue in 1850MOD).

EX1850 covers more advanced topics like the difference between the different American colonies (pilgrims, entrepreneurs, even a prison colony), a few of the Native American conflicts such as the French-Indian War, and a natural comparison occurs between the American and French Revolutions (and other revolutions mentioned in SOTW).

If you are used to taking a large unit study and paring it down for your needs, as I assume you did using TOG in grades 4-5, then I think you could do it. I wouldn't recommend it for everyone. You'll miss the "MFW advantage" of having each day parsed out for you, tested on pilot families to be do-able in the real world, but there will be the 2nd-3rd grade history schedule, as you mentioned.

And there are lots of fun hands-on activities and great book basket ideas in both programs.

Julie

[Poohbee]

Hi! I have just completed using EX1850 with my 7th grader and 3rd grader. I did Adventures a number of years ago with my oldest, when she was a 2nd grader. I have no experience with TOG or Classical Conversations.

Just a couple of things to note about ADV and EX1850. The state sheets you color and use to learn about the states are the same sheets in both ADV and EX1850. My eldest dd did those sheets in ADV as a 2nd grader and again this year in EX1850 as a 7th grader. She enjoyed doing them both times. It is more than just coloring the state, esp. in EX1850, as the students also add the state capital and can add the surrounding states, if you wish. They color the state bird, state flower, and add the state flag sticker, as well. The facts on the back of the sheet are just one way to learn about the state. The facts are excellent, and my dds loved taking turns reading them aloud. However, you also check out books from the library about each state and learn about the states through picture books, nonfiction books, novels, etc. There is an excellent book list in the back of the TMs. So, learning about the states in ADV is certainly not just coloring a sheet.

As Julie mentioned, the state and president studies in EX1850 is split into two years. You will only study the states and presidents our nation had through 1850. You won't get to all of the states and presidents while doing EX1850, so that is just something to be aware of. Whereas, in ADV, you will get an overview of all of the states.

Having said those things, I can't really advise you which way to go, but I just wanted to assure you that a 3rd grader can be very successful in EX1850. My 3rd grader participated in pretty much everything that my 7th grader did. I just adjusted my expectations for her a bit. She did not listen in on the book Building a City on a Hill, but I think she listened to all of the other history as I read it aloud. She completed the written summaries and sheets that were required, as well, but I just did not require her to write quite as much as my 7th grader did. She learned so much in our studies of EX1850 and did very well with it.

In fact, I started doing the 2nd/3rd supplement with her, but I ended up dropping it, because she was already participating in all of the history, and I didn't think the extra books were necessary for her. We did a few of them, but kind of ended up dropping American Pioneers and Patriots with her. I had used it in ADV with my eldest, and it is an excellent book, but I did not add that into an already full day for my current 3rd grader. Since my 3rd grader is a strong reader, I used the 2nd/3rd read-alouds as readers for her. She read Squanto, Sarah Noble, and Sarah Whitcher on her own, and I would check in with her now and then to check on her understanding of what she was reading. She did fantastic with those.

Your son would probably really enjoy the science in EX1850. Since my 7th grader was doing Apologia General Science on her own, I was doing the animal and botany studies in EX1850 with just my 3rd grader. That worked fine. I did make use of the Complete Book of Animals, along with reading the two different World of Animals books. The botany study, using the Apologia Botany book, was fantastic! My daughter and I both learned so much about the Plant Kingdom, and she often points out different things that she learned about whenever we are out in our backyard or taking a walk, etc.

Truly, I loved ADV. It was a great introduction to American History, and I especially loved the names of Jesus study, and it was neat how the science that year tied into the names of Jesus study. It was just right for my 2nd grader at that time.

I also loved studying EX1850 this past year. I loved studying the book of James and memorizing most of it with my girls, and I loved seeing all of the connections in the world and American history...that such and such was going on in America while such and such was going on in Europe, etc.

Both programs are wonderful! Perhaps call the MFW office, tell them about your son, and see what they would say about the right path for you and your son.

[kaymom]

Julie, thank you for your reply. I did call the office before I ordered the curriculum, and ADV is what they recommended. I did not pose it to them at that time Exp to 1850 vs. ADV for him though. I think I will call Monday to settle it in my head.

I think if I add an additional science program to ADV, that it would probably be enough with Classical Conversations thrown in the mix...not to mention our basics of writing, spelling, grammar, math and foreign language. That is starting to sound like plenty. I just finished TOG Year 2 with my older son and we studied American history up until the signing of the Constitution. I loved how they tied in European history to the settlement of America. Glad to hear that MFW also uses that approach for our later years. Also, thank you for the explanation of the state pages. I didn't want to open the student pages so I could return it if necessary, so I am only going by what I can glean from the TM.

[Joyhomeschool]

I would not advise EXP because what will you doin 4th grade? MOD? Surely not because it will. Be too,much too soon. I advise ADV and beefing it up if need be. But more than likely you will find a full year with ADV and CC.

[Poohbee]

You know, kaymom, it sounds like a good idea to go with ADV and just add more science. As you said, when you add your other subjects to ADV, it will be a full schedule for a 3rd grader, and you don't want to overwhelm him. ADV gives a very nice overview of American history at a level that is perfect for 2nd and 3rd graders. You could give the science in ADV a try, since it ties so nicely to the names of Jesus study, and let your son have fun with the easy experiments, but add more science to suit his needs and interests.

As I said previously, a 3rd grader can be successful in EX1850, and my younger dd will be in 4th grade next year and will be doing 1850MOD. That is where we are in the family learning cycle, and my younger kids just come along and join the older kids. That's the way the family learning cycle is intended to work. That's why we ended up doing EX1850 with a 3rd grader...she joined her older sister this year in the family learning cycle.

However, MFW recommends that you use ADV if your oldest child, or the only one you are homeschooling, is in 2nd or 3rd grade. I think that sticking with ADV is a good decision for you.

[kaymom]

I would not advise EXP because what will you doin 4th grade? MOD? Surely not because it will. Be too,much too soon. I advise ADV and beefing it up if need be. But more than likely you will find a full year with ADV and CC.

No, I was going to use it for an overview of American history very much like Adv does, and then start over with our history cycle in Creation to the Greeks to match CC for next year. That's where I would start next year, and having done something very similar in TOG with a 4th grader, I know that I can make that work.