ADVentures - NOT needed alongside older programs! (David Hazell reply)


Re: MFW Grade Recommendations?

Unread post by cbollin »

I continue to love your questions. They are always great ones and so well thought as you see the big picture down the road.

Well, in theory, if you are really super organized and can handle two "bigger" programs at once, then you could do ADV and an older program. Mostly though, it starts to get crazy on teacher/mom to do all of that. So, it is easier on mom/dad to fold a student into the program and not juggle both ADV and another program. Now, next year, I might "have" to do that in my situation with my 7th and "3rd" grader due to special needs situation with youngest. But I'm only considering it because next year middle gal will be in EX1850 and well... I just see my special needs child needing at least the Bible from ADV. I don't know. I tend to break into a sweat thinking that my middle gal will be in 7th grade next year.... I'm changing my subject....

But, in general, once the younger siblings are reading and writing well and hit 2nd grade level, we tend to want to add in history, more science, etc... so it is easier to teach those subjects as a family.

Aren't younger kiddos exposed any way?
In short, I have found that it has worked fine with insulating my younger kids. It's mostly because the oldest tends to filter natural for younger sibs. My oldest still does that almost to a fault. ;) and you tend to treat younger sibs differently. we do... just admit it :) But oldest just becomes a natural filter to youngest. "ha ha ha ha ha.... that can't be real with a one eyed cyclops monster"

One of my favorite examples over the years in my experience came with 1850MOD and 6th and 3rd grader. 6th grader was learning about post WWII China and communism and all of that stuff. Ick. I didn't want 3rd grader around. So, I sent 3rd grader to book basket while I read from SOTW to oldest. 3rd grader kept coming back to the kitchen with a book in her hand. I stopped reading about all of the "harder history topics" and listened to what middle gal was asking "Mom? China is a beautiful place with beautiful people, can I go there someday and tell the Chinese muslims that Jesus loves them?"

You see, because I had spent that year teaching ECC, I knew what information was needed: picture books, a love for others...... and that's what I taught in modern history that year to my younger. So I got those kinds of books for book basket for her.....

So, in other years, we tend to natural filter some stuff.

I'm glad to know you don't plan on starting oldest in 2nd grade with CTG. Don't do that. trust me. dont' do that. no. no. no.. The materials and pace are written for when oldest is about 4th grade or higher and then you can fold in the younger ones in 2nd/3rd grade. No... we'll over teach the oldest if we rush. been there.....

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Re: MFW Grade Recommendations?

Unread post by gratitude »

cbollin wrote: The materials and pace are written for when oldest is about 4th grade or higher and then you can fold in the younger ones in 2nd/3rd grade. No... we'll over teach the oldest if we rush. been there.....
I continue to love your answers and your sense of humor. :)

Your last two sentences especially really struck a chord with me. Why is it so easy to over teach the oldest??? I keep telling myself to relax teaching my oldest in the same way I relax with the younger children. It is interesting too. My second ds5 is further academically, maybe even spiritually, than my oldest was at 5; but with a fraction of the effort from me. ;)

I am very very very glad that God led me NOT to do CTG with my oldest at this point in time. Thank you for the reminder and confirmation to not do it!! We need to stay more relaxed than that. I can sense if I push I will turn him off to 'school'. He loves to learn, but... At times I think he has felt pushed (I really didn't mean to!), and I know it has the potential to turn him away from learning.
cbollin wrote:So, it is easier on mom/dad to fold a student into the program and not juggle both ADV and another program.
Your statement, "You can fold the younger children in" also really struck a chord with me. It makes sense. The MFW set-up of the oldest child doing a different order of the program than the younger siblings hasn't fully made sense to me, but your sentence does. It is what we do now. My oldest ds did Grade 1 MFW. My 5 & 3 year olds learned some of Grade 1 here and there, but they don't know as much about it since it wasn't a program designed for them. They learned some of the verses, heard the Bible stories; but it is different for my oldest who read them & did his Bible notebook. He knows all of the information from Grade 1. They know somewhere between 10% - 30%. I can see how that could continue to play a part in this. I can also see how it might be easier to give an easier version of ECC to my younger kids next year (2012 - mid-year start), then re-teach ADV that they were exposed to.

Thanks for the great reminder to take it SLOW! It is so easy to do with the 3rd & 4th children, even with the 2nd child. Hmm... I think I remember David Hazel mentioning this regarding first borns in his CD too. Being a first born I have some experience in the area as well.

Thank you! :-)
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ADV vs EX1850??

Unread post by baileymom »

AudMama wrote:I want my upcoming 3rd grader to do ADV and I was considering having the older children do EX1850 for the sake of simplicity.

I understand that EX1850 schedules books for ADV age children. How exactly is it different from them actually doing ADV? Do they still study the states?

Thank you,
Ex-1850 doesn't have the Thanksgiving Unit Study, or the Tchaikovsky study...and has different Art...and Science/Bible are different...Really, ADV is pretty different than Ex-1850, IMO.

We are doing ADV this year, but my older girls (13,10) are doing Ex-1850's History/Read Alouds. And my oldest DD does her own Apologia Science.

ADV does do the State Sheets...which are, of course also scheduled in Ex-1850 and 1850-MOD.

We're having a lot of fun, and learning tons.

Does that help???
Kathi - graduated 1, homeschooling 6, preschooling 2, growing 1
Julie in MN
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Re: ADV vs EX1850??

Unread post by Julie in MN »

To me, the biggest difference is in Bible, and then science. ADV studies the names of Jesus, and that connects to some of the science, which is gentle. EX1850 studies the book of James, and science is a semester on animals and one on plants (a Biology year).

The history in ADV and EX1850 cover much of the same ground, but ADV is at a 2-3rd grade pace and ability. So for instance, in ADV a daily history lesson might be to read the state sheet and learn more about the state in book basket. In EX1850 on the day you study the state sheet, you may also be reading Story of the World and other things. Your book basket choices will cover the state books (which are more geared for the younger crowd) but will also include the other topics studied.

In ADV, you will study the early colonies a bit, but in EX1850 you will study many of the first colonies individually, in depth. Some were founded for economic reasons, some for religious reasons, one was almost a penal colony.

In ADV, you study a few major presidents, while in EX1850 you begin a study of all of the U.S. presidents as they occur in history. But like the state study, you may be learning about a president alongside doing other things in history.

ADV focuses exclusively on the USA, while EX1850 covers history in the world. Looking at the table of contents in the sample can give you a good idea of this- ... exp_TM.pdf . There is quite a bit of coverage of English monarchs, as well as the history of China closing and reopening its doors, which involved opium and such. There is an enlightening contrast between our country's revolution and subsequent constitution, vs. the revolutions in other countries like France and Haiti.

In both programs, there may be days when you stop and do an activity, and almost every activity I hear folks talk about from ADV is something we did when doing EX1850 -- from tinfoil explorer boats to writing to the president.

So, EX1850 is just... more :)
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
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Re: ADV vs EX1850??

Unread post by 4Truth »

I agree that ADV and EX1850 are pretty different.

I would describe ADV as a fun, one-year "survey" course of JUST American history and geography for younger kids, whereas EX1850 is part 1 of a more thorough two-year study which also includes world history. While EX1850 and 1850MOD do include the main books for history from the ADV package, as well as a lesson plan for the younger kids, the Bible, science, art, and pretty much everything else are different.

If you have time to do ADV separately with your younger kids, it's a fantastic year not to be missed, IMO. ;) They'll get the more indepth two-year study when they're older. But know that it's not at all *necessary* to do it that way, and if you need to simplify your day, it would be better to include the youngers in EX1850 and 1850MOD at their own level. Perhaps you could do the Names of Jesus study from ADV over the summer or something like that.... or a mix-and-match of the two programs, but realize that that'll take a lot more work on your part, and you risk not being able to enjoy the efficiency that's built into the MFW programs.

Oh, the other thing you have to consider if you do ADV separately is what you're going to do with the youngers when the older ones are doing 1850MOD (since ADV is just a one-year course). The other option is to sort of "drag out" ADV over two years so that it lines up somewhat with the two-year study.
Tennessee Mama wrote:Thanks for all of the input, but now I don't know what to do! :~ I did ADV with the older 2, and it was loads of fun, that's why I was wondering how it compared with EX1850. My main concern is for my 8yo to do ADV, I was just hoping (since the olders will be ready for EX1850) that I could streamline a bit.
Oh, I'm sorry, I misread your OP! I thought you were wanting to do ADV (complete program) with the 3rd grader while doing EX1850 with the olders. But if your desire is to streamline and NOT have to do both whole programs, then yes, absolutely streamline! That's why the supplemental package is available to go with EX1850.... so that you can streamline. :)
Donna, with two MFW graduates and the "baby" in 11th grade! %| Using MFW since 2004.
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Re: ADV vs EX1850??

Unread post by baileymom »

I so, so agree with you Donna. ADV has been a fantasic year...I guess what we're doing is what you mentioned in your last paragraph...spreading ADV out over 2 years, while we also do EX-1850...and 1850-MOD (which we're ordering this week!:)
Kathi - graduated 1, homeschooling 6, preschooling 2, growing 1
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Re: ADV vs EX1850??

Unread post by TrustingHim »

We did EX1850 last year with the go-alongs (4th and 1st grade), and we're doing 1850-Mod this year with the go-alongs with a 2nd and 5th grader.

IMO, they are perfect :) I did not buy extra student sheets, but since your "go-along" student will be in 3rd grade, you might want them. My youngest will do EX1850 in 4th grade and 1850-Mod in 5th grade, so she'll have the opportunity to complete all the student sheets then.

I decided the gentle, go-along approach was sufficient, and it really has been. We've added books here and there, but that's what the book basket is for :). I find that the book basket is more of necessity for her than my oldest, and I've loved having everything all together for the last two years. :)

Wife to an exceptional DH for 17 years
Mother to 2 Girls; 14 and 11
Used: EX-1850 & 1850-MOD both with the 2nd/3rd grade go-alongs and ECC with 7th/8th grade go alongs
2014/15: Ex-1850 & AHL
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2nd and 4th grader-should I do 2 diff. programs?

Unread post by BHelf »

Marcee wrote:I'm looking at my lovely MFW catalog (that arrived about 2 days after I submitted a request for it)! And I'm wondering if my 2nd grader would fit better in ADV. He does not copy or write except for his handwriting book (I wouldn't say it's done easily or cheerfully either.) 8[] His HW is sloppy and needs a lot of work. He would not be able to write simple sentences after having a story read to him unless it was something like, "The boy is bad." otherwise I would have to do all the spelling. Right now he is reading the Pathway Readers and doing well. Will any of this cause issues if he is in ECC with my 4th grader?

I'm also wondering what to do about independent readers. She would like some sort of additional work to go along with the reading. I am not good at coming up with things for her to do on my own. I would need something specific. (I hope this makes sense. I'm still working on my first cup of coffee) ;) What do you do for 2nd grade as far as a reading program? Anything formal? I have a feeling that getting my son to read for fun is going to be like pulling teeth! Thanks!! :-)
For your sake, don't do Adv and ECC at the same. They are two very full programs and you would be schooling all. Day. Long.

I have done ECC with a reluctant writing 2nd grader. You just need to remember to not require the same thing from the 2nd grader as the 4th grader. Modify copying or writing assignments. ECC has the parent reading aloud most everything. As far as independent reading and book basket go, i wouldn't push it and therefore push your son away further from reading. Just have a book basket time set aside where they have to look at books from book basket and be sure to include lots of picture books. Do NOT require them to do any assignments or such from book basket. It is just for enjoyment so even if your son isn't reading the books, he is still enjoying looking at them without pressure. Occasionally pick a fun book with lots of illustrations to read aloud from book basket to your kids. And throw in books not necessarily related to the topic of study but something your son is showing interest in, such as castles or something.

Allow your younger child to do lots of drawing for his notebooks rather than writing. If you want him to write about something, have him narrate what it is he wants to write and then you write it down for him. Or allow him to copy what you've written over a couple of days. You could even write it with a highlighted and have him trace it so it isn't so much work on his part until he is more comfortable with writing. And maybe consider letting him type what he wants to write. Works with some, not with others. :)

Hope that helps some.
Wife to DH for almost 13 years
Mommy to Eileen-9, Merrick-6, Adalynn-5 and Karis--19 months

Re: 2nd and 4th grader-should I do 2 diff. programs?

Unread post by cbollin »

agreeing with Brooke. and tagging on a bit...

Will it cause issues if younger sib is in ECC while doing language arts at his own level? No. You just adjust for ability level and teach language arts where he is. Most of the other stuff in ECC will be fun, hands on, crafts, cooking, praying, learn a few new words in geography and science. dig in the dirt, play with earthworms in week 1 and 2. stuff like that. then work on language arts individually. give a shout out if you need help adjusting Prop. of Ecosystems. you'll be fine.
Marcee wrote:I'm also wondering what to do about independent readers.
yes, there are book basket.. but also there is a list of "general readers" that you get from library. You'll find a variety of books via grade/reading level.

What to do with them? Well, in my case, I usually go the "narration" method. That way it is less stress and just talking a bit. I have the child read out loud to me so I can judge on fluency and stuff like that. Ask basics.

on the other hand if you prefer, you can use a reading program and just do that when it says "reading" on the grid. So, it depends a bit. You can use a formal program. Or use the general reading list, do narration. I'm sure I could find some of my ramblings and babblings about how to do narration if that is not familiar to you. probably a link around here somewhere....

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Re: 2nd and 4th grader-should I do 2 diff. programs?

Unread post by Jklivin »

I also have a 2nd and a 4th Grader. One of the reasons I chose MFW is because I could combine the kids in one curriculum. I know there is no way I could handle trying to fit 2 different curriculum in my day. I have combined my kids since DD was "doing" school.

DD cannot do the same things DS can. She is actually a better writer/copier, but she is delayed in her reading ability.
What I do:
- I use HWOT for handwriting and they each have their own books, just because we have always used HWOT and I love it.
- I have them both do the book basket. DD mainly browses thru books and looks at pictures. It is not a long time each day, so I think they can occupy themselves with pictures for 10-15 minutes.
- On some of the assignments I write the sentences for DD. Sometimes I ask her to write a few words when her older brother has to write 2 sentences,etc.

Good luck. I would highly recommend combining them. Just allow your youngest to do what he can.
Donita in FL
Mom to DS 9, DD 7 and Baby#3 due Jan 2012
1st year with MFW
going against recommendations and starting with RTR
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5 year cycle - general planning question

Unread post by s_duguid »

HeyChelle wrote:Child C will jump into the cycle in 2014 if we skip Adventures. But... we'll see. I may decide to do Adventures with her. But what a fun idea to think I could have them ALL in the SAME curriculum core for 2 years.
We have done ADV and are now doing Exploration to 1850. I would like to clarify that the 2nd-3rd grade supplement is essentially ADV. You really won't be missing out NOT doing ADV. In fact, we are glossing over some of the picture books in book basket that we already did and not doing some of the cooking and hands-on activities that we did in ADV.

Postby s_duguid » Tue Apr 03, 2012 7:44 am
I forgot about Bible and science, especially.

The Bible reading/memory and tie-ins to science, e.g. Jesus is the Bread of Life and then studying yeast properties in bread, were age appropriate and meaningful. Just right for my then 2nd grader. Some of the experiments do get repeated in later years, just not the Biblical object lesson aspect.

I was trying to simplify things for you since there is an overlap.

Sue, married 20 years and mother to 3 (only homeschooling one):
TJ (18), college sophomore
Drew (17), high school senior
Victoria (12) starting 1850-MOD in fall
  • completed Exp_1850, RtR, CtG, ECC, ADV
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Missing Adventures?

Unread post by jasntas »

Meamommy wrote:Hi, I have a question! :) We just started MFW a couple months ago and my oldest was 9 so we started with ECC. I have two younger ones but if I understand right, they will just do K and 1st, and then jump in the cycle wherever we are at, right? So anyways, my question :) - I think Adventures looks so neat, so I am kinda bummed we will miss out on it! Are there any certain things that you might do from it, maybe over the summer or something? Just wondering!
We will only be starting RTR this year but it's my understanding that some of the fun activities and such are added into the EXPLto1850 and 1850toMOD and some of the extras from ADV are included in the 2nd and 3rd grade supplements for those last two years of the cycle. So you really don't miss anything. You're kids would just learn it a little later in the cycle. :)
Tammie - Wife to James for 27 years
Mom to Justin (15) and Carissa (12)
ADV & K 2009-2010 . . . RTR (again) & WHL 2016-2017
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Re: Missing Adventures?

Unread post by s_duguid »

In regards to history, I concur with Tammie that many of the activities and readings are included in EXP-1850. In fact, because we did do ADV, we skipped over the things that were repeats, well, except recoloring the state pages. The supplement includes most of the history books used in ADV, and the book basket suggestions in EXP-1850 are identical to ADV with a notation that the picture books are for the younger siblings. Not missing much in my opinion.

Even some of the science experiments will be redone at different years; so you're not missing much there either. Hmm, the bird study was really good and we still enjoy bird watching and listening. Might be worth getting that book out of the library, at least. In week 6 of EXP, you will quickly study birds and make an edible nest and a soda bottle bird feeder (both repeats from ADV.) The one thing I would encourage you to do that we did in ADV but not this year in EXP was as we studied the different states and their state birds, go to a website to hear their calls.

Somewhere in archives there is a link which we used. Found it, but the unfortunately the encarta site is not working for the bird calls. The does have some state bird links with sounds.

Bible is probably the only thing you might want to consider doing over the summer. The names of Jesus was a beautiful study. We created a poster while memorizing verses. Still saved it. :) The science is tied into the Bible study, for example, when child learns that Jesus is the Bread of Life, the property of yeast is studied. So it's up to you if you would want to do both science and Bible over the summer.
Sue, married 20 years and mother to 3 (only homeschooling one):
TJ (18), college sophomore
Drew (17), high school senior
Victoria (12) starting 1850-MOD in fall
  • completed Exp_1850, RtR, CtG, ECC, ADV
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Re: Missing Adventures?

Unread post by Meamommy »

Awesome thank you guys so much! Having only used MFW for a little bit, I still get confused about the whole cycle thing and how all three of mine are going to rotate through it, etc. Thanks again!
- Brooke :)
Julie in MN
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Question about 1850-Mod vs Adventures

Unread post by Julie in MN »

cjgrubbs wrote:I know American Patriots is listed as an optional resource, but is it scheduled? I have a 2nd grader and I'm considering using this program next year with a then 8th grade boy, 5th grade boy and 2nd grade boy (and a 3 year old newly adopted daughter from China). Just thinking SOTW 4 will be too much for him. How does the science in 1850-MOD differ from the Adventures program? maybe I should buy the Adventures guide for 2nd grader?
Hi and welcome!
I think most folks would recommend you make your life easier and just use 1850-MOD for all the kids, with the 2nd-3rd grade supplement for your young one. Your 2nd grader will get enough "history" for his age with the books in the extra package, and he can join in on the state studies, the presidents, and any of the optional activities you do from the SOTW Activity Book -- there are a lot in there, and if you have a 2nd grade boy, I might try to really get at least one of those in every week, even if it means not doing every question and outline on those days. My son was in 7th-8th and even he enjoyed making bullets out of tinfoil, building a crystal palace out of cardstock, weaving bracelets, measuring his heart rate (that was for Florence Nightingale while the history lesson was on the Crimean War, so we spent more time on Florence :) ).

Adventures has a nice Bible component for young ones, but EX1850 Bible has some very precious books including one by Patricia St. John, and we enjoyed singing the hymns together as well.

Hopefully soon you will hear from more families using 1850MOD with a 2nd grader. Meanwhile, here are a few experiences, I think:

Blessings as you worry for all your kids,
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
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Re: Question about 1850-Mod vs Adventures

Unread post by CharleneHoell »

I thought I would chime in since this is where I am at this year. :-)

I have an 8th grader, 5th grader, and a 2nd grader. I was planning on doing 1850 to modern and Adventures until I talked at length to someone at the MFW booth at a convention. She persuaded me that I would be very overwhelmed trying to do two complete programs...she was so right. My daughter has so enjoyed the 2nd-3rd grade supplement. She joins for some SOTW activities, but her history is very adequate for her age level...and the read-alouds are wonderful....although she sobbed at the end of Stone Fox. :) I totally agree with Julie, but I know each families needs and what they can handle are different. Many blessings to you as you decide,

Married to a wonderful husband for 18 yrs
Daughter of the King!
Been loving MFW for 8 years!
Ds 10th grade
Ds 8th grade
Dd 5th grade
Ds 2nd grade
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Unread post by cjgrubbs »

I know I have asked many questions over the last few weeks; thank you to those who have answered! I finally decided to go ahead and order since the 90 day return policy is in place. (I'm very cautious of spending the money DH works so hard for!) I called in to make sure I was adding in all the resources I needed, since some are from EXP to 1850 and we are new to MFW.

I talked to David on the phone and he was so patient and kind. He discussed my plan of using ADV with my 2nd grader and 1850 to MOD with my older two. He offered some additional book suggestions, as well. So last night I placed my order. I'm very excited to get the package as I feel that God has led me to this curriculum for next year! I don't really anticipate needed to use the 90 day return, but it gave me confidence to go ahead and place the order!

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks to all of you who answered questions!

Postby cjgrubbs » Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:50 pm
The box came today and how fun! I've looked through the student sheets and some of the teacher's manual. I think this is going to be a great year for us!
MelissaM wrote:I think I have missed your questions over the last few weeks (last year of pregnancy/new baby!), but just wanted to say Happy Box Day - those are the best!

Did I understand that you are going to teach Adventures and 1850Mod? Just curious, as I pondered doing Adv and Ex1850 next year...but decided I just didn't have the energy (or $$, lol) to do 2 programs, and I'm sure my 3rd grader will be fine in Ex1850. Anyway - it sounds like you will have a fun, full year in My Father's World. Enjoy looking at all your new books and goodies! :)
Postby cjgrubbs » Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:40 pm
MelissaM - I was planning to do this.

David gently and kindly encouraged me this might be too much! I had purchased ADV when I decided to go with 1850 to Mod for my older two. So I bought 1850 to Mod with the supplement pieces for my 2nd grader. I still may do the history readers and the science from ADV with him bc it looks fun and I have it!

Posted Thu Apr 25, 2013 4:38 pm by cjgrubbs
I am thinking of using the science from Adventures with him. I don't feel like the science in Adventures will take too long and it's usually only 2 days per week, I believe. I think it might be a fun time for us to have together and to cement some of those basic science concepts with him. This year he has participated in AIG God's Design for ..Animals and Apologia Astronomy with siblings.
Julie in MN wrote:I do like the idea of some together time. And I do think Adventures science is gentle. (I wonder if you could somehow bring up the Bible connections as you go? Probably would get too complicated, forget my idea LOL.)

My technique is to start as written, and add/sub as needed once you have a good handle on what's already planned out for you. Or, maybe you could do it like those with K/1st and sometimes just switch off some of the science activities with the whole group whenever one or the other looks especially good. And don't forget to squeeze in those nature walks and little nature journals, perfect for a 2nd grader!

DS1 - 8th grade
DS2 - 5th grade
DS3 - 2nd grade
DD1 - 4 - home from China since March 2013
Cyndi (AZ)
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Should I teach Adventures and Creation to Greek together

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) »

klewfor3 wrote:I am finishing MFW 1st and ECC with my 9 and 7yr olds and planning for next year. I love American history and want my soon to be 2nd grader to do Adventures. So, that would mean doing Creation to Greeks and Adventures together next year. Has anyone else done this? Any suggestions?

Mom to a 9, 7, 5 yr olds...
and new baby boy on the way!
My suggestion? Please don't do that to yourself. Teaching two completely different programs at the same time is just too much once you get past MFW1. It looks like you'll also be having an addition to the family which will take some more of your time, as well.

If you want to review American History with your 7yo before they get to EX-1850, you can always check out great library books and go through them. There are some fantastic kids' books about AH. Or, you could order The Story of the U.S. or Pioneers and Patriots from MFW and use them as fun reading books. A large portion of ADV is the state studies, which you are going to do in the final 2 years of the cycle anyway. It's the first 11 weeks or so that truly covers early American History. I would just do that with extra books instead of trying to tackle both ADV and CTG. And MFWK? And a new baby?
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL
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