6th-8th grade - Which MFW years to choose? (David Hazell res

[david]

If you have done ECC and only have 2 years before High School

We've done ECC this year w/ a 6th and 2nd grader. Question.......if you only had 2 years before your oldest was in High School (doing Ancients w/ MFW), what 2 years would you squeeze in before then? It all looks so good, I want to cover it all!!! :D )

When I contacted the office, Brett emailed me suggesting RTR and then 1850 to MOD. I remember him saying that since they get a lot of "Creation" reinforcement at church and most children get into the explorers in school, which my son did a little, that RTR and MOD would cover a lot of the material not already covered.

Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:31 pm

Marie and I are going to try to provide a general response that takes into consideration most scenarios.

If you only have a 7th or 8th grader (no younger children) then it is best to evaluate the child's gaps and teach the curriculum that best fills the gap for that child as they approach high school. Often RTR and Year 5 fill this bill very well. Most students seem to have had ample US History pre-1850 and often Ancient History (Old Testament) -- Both of which will be done in High School as well. For some, Year 4 and Year 5 would be a better choice as they have not had any US History.

If however you have younger kids in cycle years, then the path of skipping from RTR to 1850MOD will create issues for their understanding of chronological history through end of 8th grade. It is best to pick a cycle for the younger kids in mind (from the list options below) and stick with it even if it means that the older child will use CTG in either 7th or 8th and then return to ancients using AHL in 9th. Those programs (CTG and AHL) are very different.

When you have younger kids we feel you only have 2 choices after ECC.
(1) You either teach directly through the cycle
(2) or you skip to Year 4 and teach from that point on in the following order:
ECC, Ex1850, Modern, CTG, RTR
then repeat ECC, Ex1850, Modern, CTG, RTR

We believe you teach ECC every 5 years once you input it and so it will always serve in the above scenario between RTR and Year 4.
_________________
Have a Great Day in OUR Father's World,

David Hazell

[Lucy]

If you have done the 5-year cycle, repeated ECC, and have one more year before high school

Curious (and way ahead of myself so this is hypothetical) about a child scheduled for CtoG in 8th grade who has already done all 5 years of the 5 year cycle plus ECC for the second time. This could happen to dd #2 in our family. Would she then do the Ancient Hx program in 9th...2 straight years of Ancients? But I would hate to skip CtoG because child #3 would be ready to do it for the first time. OK, I know, each day has enough worries of it's own :)

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 12:45 pm

Yes, I am in this situation so that my son, who will be in 8th grade next year, will do CTG again followed by his first year of high school in Ancient History and LIT.. I considered doing something else for history for a year but will probably stick with the MFW plan since from talking with David the 2 years are quite different. One of the things that I am looking forward to doing is the feasts again. Those are not covered again in the high school Ancient History and Lit. My daughter who is doing it this year will enjoy those too next year after just studing the O.T. Also in high school the entire old testement is read not just sections like in CTG. I agree with Crystal that I plan not to overdo it too much in history next year and let it be a preview. I think it will be much easier to start high school at the beginning and I just do not want to have to try and find some other history just for one year.

Just my thoughts here.
Lucy

[MJ in IL]

Ideas if you can only fit in ECC before high school and want to add a short overview of American History

Hello,
My 13 yo dd will be doing ECC next year and then entering MFW high school program the following year, which I believe centers on Ancient History.

Our problem is that I'm afraid we didn't cover American History very well. My question is can anyone recommend some living books that she may enjoy reading from now until the fall that span American History. She loves to read and I think it would be a great way to get in more history, without torturing her with boring text, names and dates!
I know that there are recommended listings online, but I was hoping to avoid hours of sifting through all these and go right to the experts--you guys! What did your kids enjoy?
Tracy

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 3:09 pm

Have you considered either going through the Story of the World books (or audio recordings) used in years 3 & 4? We were in a somewhat similar situation to yours with timing and just started 1850 to MT with my children, so my 13 dd will get the more recent history in before moving into high school.

[cbollin]

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 4:31 pm

For only American history with brief world history, would it work to use the Encyclopedia of American History that is part of 1850-MOD?

The chapters are not huge, and there are 18 of them (and some appendices too with the Presidents, basic factors, Dec. of Independence, Constitution). It is a DK book. Depending on how much your "light and independent Fridays" will be for your 8th grader in ECC, it could be easy to go through this book just to have enough knowledge to hold over until high school.

Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:39 am

When your oldest finishes 8th grade (with EX1850) and before you start 9th grade with Ancient, you can have your oldest read through the Children's Encyclopedia of American History, and maybe some extra history reading books. (just casually along the lines of book basket time or leave it on the coffee table....) It will give just enough information that they'll have some modern history before high school years when they'll study more.

Or you might want to let your high schooler listen to the States and Capitals Songs to quickly learn the state's capitols. They'll learn it fast. at that age. Maybe (depending on the student) it could be done as extra history time during the 4-6 week Individual State History study during the last 4 weeks of EX1850 and continued in the summer for just the oldest student who will not be in the year 5 program in 9th grade.

And there will be parts of the 1850MOD program that you'll want to include your high school student. (well, I would anyway). That would be the things such as praying together as a family for people groups. Or some of the family reading time. But, that's just because we really enjoyed those books and readings this year.

-crystal

Posted: Sat Aug 16, 2008 7:19 am

oh wait... make sure you teach them how to make and write from an outline --- that skill is practiced a lot in 1850MOD in the history context, but you can do it as a skill even if you aren't able to do1850MOD.

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Mon Feb 18, 2008 9:13 pm

How about the literature that MFW selected for their Deluxe packages in years 4 & 5? I would trust the MFW selections to nicely back up the history information.

Year 5 says, "Courage to Run, Across Five Aprils, Hudson Taylor, Sergeant York and the Great War, Corrie ten Boom, and Brother Andrew." Those all sound good for her age.

[Lucy]

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:29 pm

I am agreeing with Julie that if you are looking for literature, you may have her read the ones from years 4 and 5. Some of these are not American but world history. Here are the ones in those years that are American History: Almost Home, Amos Fortune-Free Man, Bound for Oregon, Courage to Run, Across Five Aprils, Sergeant Your and the Great War(this one is difficult because of the accent or southern drawl). These would be in order of how things happened. Also another on that my daughter really liked was The Witch of Blackbird Pond which deals with the Salem witch trails.

I think that Crystal's idea of using the DK book The Children's Encyclopedia of American History is a good idea too. It will hit all the major American history points and has lots of pictures to make it more interesting. This is found in year 5.

Another book that is just American history is used in years 4 and 5 and reads more like a story than a textbook, Exploring American History. This would be only American and not World(which is included in SOTW).

In the end I will say what I usually say, and that is if she does not cover it all before high school it will be o.k. Year 3 will be all American History in MFW high school so she will get it. Do not worry about it and be careful not to do so much that she burns out.

Lucy

[TracyLee01026]

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:23 pm

Thank you all very much for these excellent suggestions. I talked to Brett today and he told me she will be getting American History in years 3 and 4 of high school, so I was happy to hear that. I will take your suggestions here and consider each of them and how I can use them over the next year, being careful not to burn her out.

Just so you know, it has been all the wonderful help from you gals that I have been getting over the past few months that has really sold me on MFW. I don't think I could find another support group like this one anywhere.
God Bless,
Tracy

[gressman9]

Choosing ECC if you only have one year before high school

I'm new to MFW. I'm trying to decide how to place my oldest child first. My dd that will be in 8th grade next year recently finished sonlight core 5 so I don't know that I want to start with Exploring Countries and Cultures.

Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:57 pm

I just talked to David, as I have had the same question. My daughter is in 8th grade next fall (she misses the public school cut off for 9th by 3 weeks with her Sept. birthday). She just did Sonlight Core 5 last year. This year she is doing American history through someone else. I am going to use ECC next fall with 2 of my other children. I didn't know what to do with her.

David said she could probably handle the highschool stuff....but he brought up some good points of why I might not want too. Do I really want her to graduate early?

Also, he reminded me that Sonlight Core 5 only covers the 1040 Window of the world. ECC covers much more.

After talking to David, I am pretty sure that I am going to have my dd do ECC with us. She can lead the Arts and Music part with her younger brothers. She can do the extra 7th/8th grade reccomended books. And, she can get used to Saxon and Apologia. I think it will make for a much more pleasant year.
Carylee

[Lucy]

We finished ECC during the first part of this year because I had a baby last year and then back surgery last summer. It just dawned on me today as I was stressing out, that I've become a "check-mark maniac"! I'm in the mind-set that we must finish CtG as fast as possible. This is NOT how I want our school to be.

I was wondering about my oldest finishing the cycle.

And do you think it will be ok in the fall, to start wherever we are, even if we're in week 15? Even if my daughter will begin grade two & join us in the middle?

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008
I would not worry too much about your oldest finishing the cycle. The sanity of you and your family and as Jenn said enjoying learning is more important than finishing the cycle. You do not want them to be pushed so much that you all burn out. That of course is always the goal, to finish the cycle, but life does not always work out neatly. In High School your oldest will get all the World and American History again and be doing it on a more in-depth and independent level at that point. So your oldest will get it just not before high school.

You could begin CTG now and then pick it up in the fall again. There were a couple of years that we did not finish in June but we took a break and then finished up when we started back in late August and it worked fine.

Or you may prefer to just get it all back on a traditional Sept. start schedule. I think either way will be fine.

Lucy

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:34 pm

I agree with the others -- just keep going at a comfortable pace and don't rush.

Then in the fall, as Lucy said, you may really like starting fresh at a new level, or you may want to continue where you left off.

Many of us are off-track due to life's many surprises, and it works out fine to just start the next level when you get there. In fact, we are doing the last day of RTR at our house today, and will start EX1850 on Monday. There are down sides, but there have been up sides to doing it this way, as well.

Either way, your 2nd grader will cycle back thru when she gets to 7th & 8th grades, not to mention high school.

Best wishes in your decisions,
julie

[MJP]

Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 5:41 pm

I would just keep going at a comfortable pace, take summer off, and then resume in the fall. It won't hurt your second grader at all. You can just have your second grader look over an older sibling's notebook for a quick review of what has been covered and call that good. Remember, younger siblings come into the cycle wherever their older siblings are. So they start at varying points. Life happens. Everyone won't have the perfect cycle. It is OK.

[Laura D.]

Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:38 am

Thank you so much for your advice. I think I will just slow down and continue but stop in June. I was having a "crisis" moment! You helped me through it. Thank you!!
Laura

[LSH in MS]

This is our first year with MFW, and we are currently doing ECC with a 6th grader and 2nd grader. My situations is this, that my oldest only has 2 years before high school, and although I would love for him to get the whole MFW experience I know it's not possible to squeeze 4 years into 2!!! :D Since HS starts with Ancients, I am probably going to skip ahead to do Ex to 1850 this coming school year followed by 1850 to Mod the next.

My question is.....do you have any suggestions for an overview of history from Creation through the Reformation to go over with them this summer? I so want to get them where they need to be chronologically. I don't plan on anything heavy over summer, just history overview and math drills....with lots of educational field trips!!!

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 1:53 pm

I have 2 suggestions. Listen to on cd or read Story of the World volumes 1 and 2.

Or if you want more Biblical history you could read or listen to on CD Mystery of History volumes 1 and 2.

[Lucy]

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 3:37 pm

I think I like the idea of the SOTW for the history, although you will get little to none in the biblical area. Be assured that in the MFW high school they will get lots of bible as they read through both the old and new testament with application questions along with some other study books and guides.

Another idea for the RTR year is to get and read the read aloud books for that year. CTG does not come with time period read alouds, but she does suggest several in the manual for reading. A quick search will bring up a few that you may choose from such as Mara, Daughter of the Nile and The Golden Goblet. One more idea would be to get a book or 2 about different foods and how they lived etc. Even picture books are good for older kids and adults to learn this info in an interesting way. Then you can cook some of the foods for fun.

Another idea all together is just do some read alouds and fun cooking and do not worry about all the history since it will be covered well in high school and your other kids will get it in a couple of years.

Just my thoughts since you do not want to over do it and want to cover a large amount of history and yet make it relaxed and enjoyable.
Lucy

[mama9times]

I was looking at Streams of Civilization Vol. I maybe since it covers that period exactly. Have any of you done that one? and is it something that would lend itself well to a read a loud?

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:51 pm

Streams of Civilization is more text bookish. A little dry as a read aloud. It does have more biblical content than Story of the World. Hmmm...?
Does your son like textbooks? If so, he could read through it himself. The information is presented on a higher grade level than Story of the World.

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:23 pm

The problem I'd have with picking one text is that you might get too mired in details & not give them the overall picture that you want for your kids. (Been there, done that.)

But on the other hand, picking out the most important bits here & there could lead to confusion on their part, with nothing solid for them to build on.

I personally would probably spend time thinking about what I wanted my kids to get out of the summer study, and then spend my time planning for that.

What would I want my kids to get out of the overview? It would depend a lot on the foundation that they already had in the Bible and in history. I definitely would want them to clearly understand the creation and the fall of man, as well as a sense of God's plan to redeem us -- which of course culminates in Jesus.

I would also want my dc to gain the sense that the Bible is a history book -- as true and verifiable as any other classical book. I'm thinking of maybe covering a few of the times Egypt comes up in the Bible -- Abraham, Joseph, Moses... Jesus, and then going to look at what other history books tell us about Egypt at those times. And then of course the reality of the Roman Empire at the time of Jesus. The first two read-alouds from RTR were really good at helping envision the time of Jesus & the time of Paul.

Okay, maybe this is starting to look like a study of Genesis and then an overview of the New Testament -- especially Jesus, Paul, and then maybe a little Trial & Triumph?

I do like Streams a lot, but I am not sure it would draw the kids into the important points. It might be good info for mom?! Thanks for letting me allow my brain to wander over the keyboard for a while :o)

[cbollin]

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:22 am

An option to think about here:
*can you skip RTR and just go into year 4 and then go into year 5 after that? Year 4 has the individual state study report, and state history. Trying to memorize all of the book of James.

MFW will have them read the entire OT and NT in high school. And oldest will get to world history in 10th grade to cover from Rome through more modern time. Younger son can zip back and pick up RTR maybe in his 6th grade year.

You’d be surprised at how Story of the World vol. 4 will naturally review material from the time frame of RTR so that you won’t miss out on the information when it is needed in 1850-MOD even if it is the first time your children are hearing it. You could have your oldest child read parts of Trial and Triumph (during the summer time) to fill in some church history to help make the transition from CTG to EX1850. You wouldn't read the whole book, just in parts with the appropriate time frame such as the first 3 sections of the book. (your younger son may not have to hear everything in that book. that's ok)

I just think that your oldest might want to try to do year 5 in 8th grade and that means to skip something to make that work. :)

Wonder what Lucy thinks? She’s done both year 4, and 5 and has a high schooler.

In the ideal setting it is nice when we can get a full set of chronological history for each child in various stages of learning. But that doesn’t always happen. Each year of MFW is taught chronologically so that each year will make sense as it is taught. But if you have to jump over a year in the 5 year cycle from CTG to EX1850, there will be points of natural review so that not all is lost. Each child will be able to get a full 4 year chronological cycle in high school.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 9:43 am
Crystal has completed both years, so she probably knows more, but I was thinking that skipping EX1850 instead of RTR would also be an option?

There is a little overlap in explorers at the end of RTR and EX1850. And EX1850 includes 4 weeks of just studying your state. So I was thinking that studying RTR (the time of Jesus, the Reformation, etc) might mean missing a bit less than skipping EX1850?

Disclaimer: We just started EX1850 so I don't know a lot about what's ahead this year.

Posted Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:09 pm by Julie in MN
We've had a lot of good conversations about this very topic in the past. Why don't you take a peak at these threads, especially David Hazell's post at the beginning.
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=484
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1340

I tend to lean towards skipping EX1850 because of the overlap at the beginning, the month on the state study at the end, and the fact that most folks have covered some early US history.

I do love the coverage of the formation of the US in EX1850, too, so I think the biggest factor (if you don't have other younger kids) is what you've already covered well.

I'm sure you'll get some more chatting on the subject, too.
Julie

[Lucy]

Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 6:50 pm

First of all whatever you decide to do your oldest will get it all again in high school .

So with that in mind I am in total agreement that you can NOT do them both in the same year. It is way too much information.

We are only in our first year of high school but from what I understand the RTR time period will not be covered in a whole year as it is in year 3 but will part of World History in year 2 of High School. The following year looks like it will be American History and the final year a semester of American Government and a semester to fill in a state requirement such as Economics.

My favorite time period was RTR so if you're asking me I am going to say do not skip it especially if you have done the first half of American (as many have if coming to MFW form other curriculums). This time period to me really connects the bible with the rest of the history taking place and you see so much of how the church of today has come to be. All the years are good and offer different things such as the state report Crystal mentioned and the challenge of memorizing a whole book. So it is hard to decide what to skip.

I have to say that you also need to think of the other child in your family and will be this be the best plan for him as well. You will have a year to think about that if the year you decide to skip is year 4. My thought would be if you do skip it to come back the next year and do year 4 with your younger child.

Here is another thought? Do you have to skip a year? Would it just be better to keep the order and let your oldest get the last part of World History in high school? It will be from a Christian world view as well.

I do not think I have helped to give any definitive answers but hopefully some food for prayer and thought as you look at it all. Again, both of your kids are going to get a great education and your oldest will get anything he missed and more in high school.

Lucy

[sewardmom]

Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:27 pm

We are in a similar situation as you are with your oldest doing CTG as a 6th grader.

I have gone back and forth with this decision. After contacting MFW, praying and discussing with dh, we are going to continue in the designated order. As Lucy mentioned, our oldest will get the info again in HS at a more in depth level.

Another thing I have decided to do is to supplement the summer prior to HS with modern times related books. We try to keep up on current events and the like in our family so I am hoping with all that, she will be just fine :D

If you stick with MFW, it will work out just fine.
Enjoy!
Terri

[MJ in IL]

...RTR and MOD would cover a lot of the material not already covered. I do agree with that, but my oldest has had such sporadic history at school that I really want him to "see history as it unfolds" when we homeschool. I want him to see that God started it all in the beginning and has continued "His" story until today.

And as far as repeating ECC for my youngest, I was hoping to "do summer school", breaking ECC in half between 2 summers to re-do and reinforce geography. It would be a good refresher for my oldest as well.

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:47 pm

I'm not sure of all your family dynamics, but we just skipped from CtG to 1850->MT this year for some of your same reasons. My oldest dd will be high school this next year and "life" helped us stretch CtG a bit longer than one year. Our plan is to finish Year 5, go back to RtR, then Year 4, ECC and try to stick chron. after that. I really think the "time jumps" bother me more than the kids:)

We are absolutely loving year 5 so far! The change of pace is nice from CtG and there was plenty of review of the early American time period for us (covered in early book basket time...but I read some aloud.)

I think doing RtR and Year 5 could work nicely. I know I had covered early American Hx well in earlier years. I also think the RtR time period has less "exposure" and will give some nice foundation for World History (that's speculation b/c, of course, I haven't done it yet:) I like your ideas of listening to tapes or reading books of the time period not covered during the summers too.

[4Truth]

Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 3:28 pm

I'll jump in and say I probably agree with Bret... not having done EX1850 myself, of course. I've been pondering this a lot, wondering how much overlap there is between the study of the Explorers in RTR and the beginnings of EX1850. We only have two years left until high school as well, and I'd *hope* to be able to do ECC in there somewhere.

And to Momrandles... having learned so much about the time of Jesus and seeing how much of a foundation Rome laid for modern America, as well as the founding and growth of the Church, I'd sure hate to have missed RTR.

Yes, my vote is to go with ECC-RTR-1850MOD. :o)

[HSmommi2mine]

Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:01 am

I say over the summer listen to SOTW 1 and 2 on CD and that will give you a little basis for moving onto the modern years.

We are skipping CtoG for the same reason - Although I wish we weren't!

.

[Julie in MN]

After reading posts on skipping ECC ( http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 839#p39839 ), I am unsure again. My son will just have 2 years before High School. My original thought was CTG, RTR and then he will be in H.S. and my daughter, who is going into 4th next yr., could do ECC, E-1850 and 1850-Modern Times.

Now I am thinking I should do ECC and then 1850-Modern Times. My son has had a lot of Geography while attending Christian schools, but I don't think he had it as involved and with the missions emphasis like ECC sounds like it has. We did Exp.-1850 this year with a different unit study. I would love some input from those who have used ECC and other MFW Curriculum. Thanks so much!
Dedra

Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:21 pm

Dedra,
I like your new plan! I love all the programs, but your ds will have CTG soon enough in 9th grade. As for RTR vs. 1850MOD, you have another year to think about that one.

Be sure to go over the 7th-8th grade ECC page:
http://www.mfwbooks.com/ecc_7-8.htm

[MJ in IL]

Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:05 am

I also like this idea! The geography year has helped in our with history studies with physical knowledge of places and our prayer/spiritual attitudes with the cultural/mission background. I read a post on the boards by Kelly in the last couple of days that gave a great review of how ECC has impacted their family.

I currently altered my plan to do 1850MT with my 3rd/5th/8th graders. We are only about 1/3 through as we started this winter. We love it! We have covered the Civil War, states/capitals and some world history events that I was previously unfamiliar with (very poor history background!) When questioning our plan for dd14 (today!) David encouraged us to do the Year 5 as it tends to be an area of history many don't cover as well. I'm glad we jumped forward to get this in before high school!