Science - Is there enough?

dhudson
Posts: 320
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 5:46 pm

Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by dhudson » Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:37 pm

euromom wrote:I read in other boards and over the internet that MFW is weak in science .
What do you think?
Do you supplement?
If your dc take a state test , how well do they do ?
P.S.Considering MFW for next year but still researching
My kids have tested very well in science. What's more, they really love science. It's the treat at the end of the school day and they beg for more so I would consider MFW science a win. I think sometime peoples confuse simplicity with a lack of depth. We can teach deep and confusing topics simply and have our children understand those topics. My kids know the make up of a cell because we "built" one with jello, a grape and a plastic bag. The concept was simply taught but it didn't lack depth and it was memorable.

My 7th grader (until this year) has only ever done MFW science and has gone to Space Camp, has been involved in First Lego League and other "science" camps and has been complimented many times because of his knowledge of science.

More importantly to us though, our kids understand who created the world and have a great foundation in creation science because of MFW as well.
God Bless,
Dawn
http://www.shiningexamples.blogspot.com
blessed Mom of three - 16, 13 & 13
happy user of MFW since 2002

Lainie
Posts: 65
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2007 2:33 am
Location: Tualatin, OR
Contact:

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by Lainie » Thu Sep 17, 2009 11:01 pm

Hey there... better late than never. Dawn just clued me into this conversation and I thought I would throw a couple of cents in here. I can't really add too much to what Crystal and Dawn have posted except to say...

My hubby is a Family Practitioner and was a Biochemistry and Cellular biology major at the Univ of Calif. San Diego. We do not supplement. We think the science is great and our kids love it.

But seeing is believing. Towards the end of the year last year we started video taping our science experiments and have decided to continue this year. In addition to the science in Rome to Reformation (this year) and a good portion of the science from Creation to Greeks last year, we are also taping the Apologia Science Exploring Creation with General Science experiments that our 7th grader is doing.

All of them are viewable on my blog with this link:
http://www.mishmashmaggie.com/search/label/ed%20videos

So if you'd like to see what it looks like in one family's home you are warmly invited to stop by :-)

But be warned... we're a little nutty :)
Lainie (Oregon)
"Sanctify them in truth; Thy word is truth" John 17:17

Have completed 1st, entire 5 year cycle, and all high school! Whoo hoo!
Have graduated one with MFW, 1 dd- junior, and 1ds- freshmen
http://mishmashmaggie.com/

SandKsmama
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:43 pm

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by SandKsmama » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:28 am

I have 2 kids that are old enough to have participated in standardized testing (in NC, we don't have to test until they are 7), and we have used MFW all 5 years we have homeschooled. They have both tested very high in science, every year.

Ya know, I've heard that other places as well, but I just don't see it. I've done MFW K, 1st, and the entire history cycle through once (doing 1850-Modern now), and the science is very complete.

For 3-6 graders,do you touch on EVERY science topic EVERY year? No, but you go in depth on a few topics each year, and over time you will have *really* learned a lot about them all, instead of just a little about the topics over and over. I much prefer the depth over breadth:-). I think that is really the issue - but I would venture to say that those who complain about science in MFW being weak have only experienced a year or two, not really looked at the overall plan. I would also guess they are used to a textbook way of doing science - hitting many topics quickly, rather than going in depth on a few.
Amanda, Wife to a great guy since '99, SAHM to 4 fabulous kids! DD(7/96), DS(1/01), DD(8/03), and baby DS (3/09)!
Used MFW K, 1st, ECC, CTG, RTR, Ex1850, and currently using 1850-Modern!

RBS in OH
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Nov 13, 2008 2:34 pm

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by RBS in OH » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:53 am

Having used ADV and 4 weeks of ECC only so far, we have experienced a very satisfying and interesting science curriculum. I think it takes some disciple not to skip to the experiments (even though the extra work sometimes tempts me to omit them), and then the kids really learn all that is planned for them to take in and understand. As the others have mentioned, Book Basket and Nature Study are scheduled and are intended to make the study of science complete. You can choose to really capitalize on these extra activities, making your study of science richer, or you can choose to put less emphasis on them. Each family chooses how they want to implement science learning based on their family learning goals, how their kids learn, interest levels, time, etc.

So, anyhow, based on our experience, MFW science has been strong enough to help us learn a lot, retain it, and be curious for more.

Also, MFW is so beautifully planned that studies in one subject (even science) often end up being brought up in another and so the teaching gets reinforced and it's fun to see it all fit together so well.
Rachel

ds(14) 8) and dd(14) ;)
We've enjoyed ADV, ECC (2 times), CTG, RTR, EX-1850, 1850-MOD--and now AHL this year!

Abby
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by Abby » Fri Sep 18, 2009 3:56 pm

Hi! You've had great responses & as a newbie to MFW, the responses helped me too. We just wrapped up our third week of of CtG. The science is perfect for my 2nd grader.

I am a blogger who *mistakenly* &) blogged about the program being weak (i used the word weak in reference to our oldest). I was so wrong. Our oldest (5th grader) finished (today!) a dinosaur lapbook (online freebie). She likes lapbooking so much that she is going to start a Mummy lapbook (another online freebie) next week as we delve deeper into Ancient Egypt & the Pyramids. We added components that build on what is in the TM & is free. Her last two years of homeschool science (not MFW) was light & *I* think I'm a little nervous about how she'll do when she tests in the spring; this will be her first standardized test since leaving public school over two years ago.

I'll probably update my blog soon to reflect the positive learning experiences w/the science portion. We really love MFW & are so thankful to find it. Thanks everyone for answering & to the original poster. :)

Abby
http://www.meetourfamily2.blogspot.com

cbollin

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:17 pm

Abby wrote:& *I* think I'm a little nervous about how she'll do when she tests in the spring; this will be her first standardized test since leaving public school over two years ago.
((hugs))

tests in 5th grade are baseline things anyway. You'll be fine. She'll do fine. it's hard to standardize science knowledge across the country in something like a test. Not all public schools or private schools do the same science scope and sequence. So, concentrate on skills.

anyway.....

so my hubby's take on this as he was leaving for work this morning when it came to what to do to prepare elementary kids for all of this...
let them read the material with you
Ask them: what do you think will happen?
then say: ok, let's find out.
try the experiments on their own as much possible.
let them go "cool" and "wow" and laugh at science nerd jokes.
and teach to observe what is going on.
make them clean it up and put it away.
then ask them: What did happen? is that what we expected? and why?


now the other observation that John (my dh) made was that his opinion is that we need to teach the Scientific Method, without being hung up on the teaching the terms and phrases of The Scientific Method. You just want the kids to be so comfortable with asking What will happen if I do this? Set it up, observe and figure out why --- that it becomes how they think about science. And not a check box to say "ok. I covered scientific method in the curriculum and that's good, right?" (well, can you tell that he had to teach me that? you should have seen what I did in 2nd/3rd grade to our oldest. good thing: John took the books out of my hand...... LOL. I learned! I got better.

So, my guess? if you get a test prep book out there to help your daughter remember how to use a #2 pencil and fill in circles, you might find that the tests will use some of the vocabulary of scientific method. So if they get those kinds of questions wrong, you don't sweat it as long as you are using the method.

So that's one of the major strengths that we see in the CTG book, Genesis for Kids. There are these Toolbox pages (such as p. 17 where you teach about what it means to observe, or. 34 where you learn about evidence, or . 76, Language of Science.... etc. ). And those toolbox pages: that's where you are making sure you are getting those "scientific method teaching moments" without being caught up in the vocabulary of what will be on the test with "hypothesis" or whatever.

So, that's one of the reasons that he and I like the Genesis for Kids book: it has the strength of those science words without the bogging down in vocabulary words.

So do the experiments. let the kids try. And if you fail at it --- definitely visit Lainie's CTG science video blog. It's awesome! They messed up on some of them too and went back and thought it through. The lung one. right?

The only "light"/weak/whatever in CTG science: it's not scheduled as much each and every day of each week, the same way that other years are. But it's a balanced approach as you add in art history that year and lots of Bible and history. It's balance.

-crystal

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by Julie in MN » Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:57 pm

Abby wrote:*I* think I'm a little nervous about how she'll do when she tests in the spring.
Abby,
I don't know what test you take, but my youngest has been doing MFW science from 3rd grade (now an 8th grader) and he has taken the Iowa Basics every spring. He always tests above grade level.

On our tests, "science" is mostly a test of "can the student read nonfiction & answer a couple questions about it." There is no fund-of-knowledge testing, in the Iowa Basics anyways. Don't worry!

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Abby
Posts: 2
Joined: Fri Sep 04, 2009 6:46 pm

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by Abby » Fri Sep 18, 2009 7:19 pm

Thank you ladies . All of you really helped me decide !
I love this board. The info & support are a blessing to me. :)

Abby
http://www.meetourfamily2.blogspot.com

hsmomof5
Posts: 38
Joined: Mon Apr 14, 2008 2:03 pm
Location: South, USA
Contact:

Re: Your opinion : MFW Science

Unread post by hsmomof5 » Sat Sep 19, 2009 12:35 pm

Ditto everything Crystal has so beautifully stated. We are only in year 2 (still newbies) of MFW but we love the science and haven't used any other science with it. We have added library books as MFW suggests. I know that CTG has a list of literature for history topics, composer studies and science topics in the appendix. If you are coming from a traditional textbook approach or if you are a heavy sciency (is that a word? LOL) fam, then I can understand why some may think the CM approach to science is light but it's really just right. According to the MFW years, it appears to progress nicely up to the Apologia textbooks in 7th/8th and highschool. My children are learning and having fun with CTG science. We are planning to stick with MFW science recommendations. :)
~Kysha
ds 19 (college freshman), ds 12, ds 12, and ds 10 (ECC '08) (CTG '09), dd 3 (Preschool)

Poohbee
Posts: 394
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:38 pm
Location: North Dakota

MFW Science?

Unread post by Poohbee » Thu Jul 22, 2010 8:38 pm

gratitude wrote:How do you like MFW Science? What do you like /love about it?

We love the rest of MFW and I am thinking of switching entirely to their science program for MFW K & Grade 1.

If I followed the MFW science program through grade school would my kids be well prepared for Apologia in Grade 7?

We came to MFW last winter. At first I continued with our previous science. Then I did 2 days and 2 days of MFW science each week in June (a bit confusing). So I have done a little of the MFW Grade 1 & K science in June, but not enough to know much about it. I am thinking it would simplify things to just do MFW science this school year. I have read some of the MFW science threads and it looks like MFW ties science and bible together. Am I understanding it correctly? I would love it if they do. It also seems like MFW science gets some mixed reviews. I love the idea though of simplifying our program for this year.
As you said, the science in MFW K, First Grade (and also Adventures) ties in with the Bible. That's one of the things I love about the science at those levels. (I haven't used the science beyond Adv yet, so I'm not sure about the rest). Also, I love that the science experiments are simple, short, and use things we have around the house, for the most part. My dds both LOVED the science in K, 1st, and Adv!
Jen
happily married to Vince (19 yrs)
blessed by MFW since 2006
have used every year K-1850MOD
2018-2019: Adventures with 9yo boy

cbollin

Re: MFW Science?

Unread post by cbollin » Fri Jul 23, 2010 7:41 am

Carin,

Let’s start with the end point and work backwards.

To be ready for Apologia General in 7th grade, I have the following experience to share. A student needs to be able to read a text (or listen to it on audio), learn to take notes from it, be able to follow written directions for labs and clean up those labs, and do a little bit of writing, and learn to study for a “big test”. They need to be on math level (not super math advanced, but on level). General was originally written with an assumption that kids coming from elementary weren’t necessarily from strong science years. Module 1 (chapter 1) can be “overwhelming” at first, so don’t worry about that.

MFW science and all of the other parts of MFW (narrations, notebooking, lab reports) will help the student over the years to be ready.

By 6th grade, I would think that you would want to have the child trying to read the experiments more on their own and doing the set up and clean up. Have them write a simple lab summary. We did this. This happened. I thought this would happen. It didn’t (or it did). I learned that this showed.
That level of simple.

There is plenty of science in MFW program so that you aren’t overwhelmed with it all and it is elementary age appropriate.

My dh, who holds a PHD in chemistry and is a scientist, has this to say about goals and objectives in elementary science:
“The principal objectives of elementary-level science should be to teach students to be curious about the world around them, to train them to observe, and to provide an introduction to the scientific method.”

We think MFW gets it done.

I’m not sure how the science in 1st grade ties in with Biblical basis. 1st grade science is a general year with lots of fun experiments and enjoying God’s creation. It is to encourage them to be curious about the world that God made, helping them to observe. In K program, the science/social studies is very much about seeing God everywhere in everything and how He made the world. Science is part of that.

ADV: the science is a year long hands on way of extending the Bible lessons about names of Jesus. So, when you learn He is the living water, your science is water related. And so on.


So, that’s in the K-2nd grade level. Science does not have to be complicated at that age. MFW keeps it age appropriate. Most veterans I know will say “that’s all you need at this age. A quick hands on demo. A small amount of text and close the book. Let them read a bit more or try the same experiment again and again.” MFW does this.

ECC science is about biomes, habitats, ecology, from Biblical perspective. I’m thankful MFW was able to work with a secular publisher to remove evolutionary references in one of the books. And thankful that the other book is from a Christian publisher (Answers in Genesis).

CTG Science: this is general science kicked up a notch from K and 1st level, but not yet to the jr. high level. It is from perspective of God created this.

RTR: anatomy, and astronomy. And even some historically related science with Rome. Lots of science. Some of the materials used are secular, some are very Christian publications. The book about human reproduction is definitely Godly perspective on that topic.

EX1850, for those in elementary years using it, you get Taxonomy of Animal kingdom, and then a Botany semester. This is a lot of science. Yes, it’s from Christian perspective. One of the encyclopedia books is a secular publisher because of all of the great photos. Other stuff is definitely a God created these things.

1850MOD: if they are in elementary, it’s a year of chemistry and physics at elementary level.

In MFW, Bible tends to either tie into Science (K and ADV), or to history (most other years.) But science is presented from Christian perspective even if the topics in Bible and science don’t line up that week.


So, MFW will cover many science topics in several learning stages in the K-6th grade years. MFW encourages nature walks to help with one more way to train them to observe and be curious about the world around them. MFW encourages simple written reports. MFW encourages narration about what you are learning.

So, to get them ready for General Science by 7th grade, well, help them to observe the world around them, let them try the same experiment again and let them find a different way to try it again. Read to them. Let them read about what they are interested in.

Don’t overkill it in elementary because they will get more in jr. high and high school.


So, with all of those positives in MFW science, why is it that some internet chatter shows mixed reviews?
Well, here are the common negatives that I’ve heard for over 5 years. I'm sure there are other reasons, but these are the most common negatives that I've heard.
*science isn’t done “enough” times per week for some families and doesn't take "enough" time each day.
*text level in K-2nd is “too low” instead of “age appropriate”. (but veterans will say, this is just what they need)
* prefer hands off science. don’t wanna do experiments.
*can't get the experiment to look exactly like the book says it should.
*and they aren’t doing everything that MFW recommended in the manual with science, but they don’t know that, or don’t value nature walks and book basket, or extras from internet links.
*or I had already picked up a science and just want to continue with it.
*or even, where's the worksheets?


Well, ok. Lots of stuff on the market. It’s ok. I like that MFW science isn’t overkill in the lower elementary years. I like that families still have time to do Science Fairs, and Science Olympics. I like that my kids could always read more if they wanted. I like the internet link books to encourage more experiments.


-crystal

KimberlyND
Posts: 67
Joined: Thu Jan 24, 2008 4:55 pm
Location: United States

Re: MFW Science?

Unread post by KimberlyND » Fri Jul 23, 2010 8:23 am

I have only used MFW 1st through ECC. But we have loved the science so far. It is just enough for us at this level.

My olders did not use MFW. We did unit studies and a kind of eclectic approach in those early years until they hit 7th grade then they did Apologia General Science along with the other main subjects textbook style. They had no problems adjusting or doing the science on their own. I do remember my dd who is 24 now (yikes!) being really overwhelmed, like Crystal said, with that first module. It really taught her to think. By the third module science was her favorite subject.

I like the science in MFW because like Jen said it ties in with other subjects you are studying where possible. It is just enough at my children's level. It is easy to use. And I usually can handle doing the experiments. As ds gets older and can read better I will let him have more responsibility in doing those with me being the on-looker.
Kimberly in ND
MFW user since 2007, gone through K, 1st, ADV, ECC, CtG, RtR, Exp. to 1850, & 1850 to Modern Times
Using ECC 2014-2015 with an 8th grade son and 4th grade daughter
Have been HS for 19 years and graduated 3 dc.

RB
Posts: 87
Joined: Wed May 09, 2007 9:14 am

Re: MFW Science?

Unread post by RB » Fri Jul 23, 2010 3:51 pm

We heard Jay Wile speak at a convention on "K-6 Science" and I remember thinking that MFW science really fit his recommendations well. Right now I can't remember the specifics, but I remember thinking that if we did MFW Science until 6th, my kids should be well-prepared for General Science in 7th since he is the author :) He was remarkably low-key about elementary science--I do specifically remember that he said 2 days/week was plenty in elementary, and to focus on other subjects with science being a fun intro to peak interest and lay groundwork for more indepth studies in Jr High/High. As always, MFW seems to be right on the mark!
R.B.
dd 15 dd 14 ds 12 ds 1
Adventures and 1st ('07/08), ECC and K ('08/09), CtG ('10-'11), RtR ('11-12), Expl-1850 ('12-'13)

gratitude
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Re: MFW Science?

Unread post by gratitude » Fri Jul 23, 2010 10:59 pm

Thank you for such long and detailed answers. I learned so much about MFW science and the curriculum ahead of us. I am really excited about cutting our curriculum down to MFW K & MFW Grade 1! This is looking so much more relaxed and fun for the upcoming school year. I think my kids will Love it, and I know I will! :-)

cbollin

Future Sciences, microscopes, and lab kits

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Jan 07, 2012 7:13 am

far above rubies wrote:Out of curiosity, do any of the future sciences include microscopes/lab kits/stuff of this nature?
Those are separate purchase. I recommend Home Science Tools.

In elementary years, you don't "have" to use the lab kits for Apologia. But it can be helpful. Most of the items are stuff you'd normally be able to get at grocery stores, hardware,and general places like "stuff mart". So it's a preference on that.
Among companies that sell pre packaged apologia kits:
Nature's Workshop Plus!
Home Science Tools (and they sort by curriculum too)

for some people it is more convenient to get the Astronomy Kit,or Botany stuff via kits.

Then in Jr. hIgh (apologia general, apologia physical) - it's a preference issue. Do you want to buy kit, or just get the items you need when you need them. same places.

Biology - microscope, slides. dissection is optional. then "other experiments with household". Bought from Home Science Tools. They had a recommendation for a good for high school quality scope.
Chemistry - we got the kit from Home Science Tools.

in MFW lesson plans for those jr. high and high sciences, MFW lists at least one other company out there for homeschool science and such. But price check and shipping and such - well..
far above rubies wrote:Thanks!!! I have an extreme-science minded child and she asked today if she was going to be able to use a microscope and such when she's older. My other daughter is also very science-y, but more on a creative basis. My oldest dd, I could totally see going into the Maths and Sciences.

I'm thinking of buying a science kit (I could do some serious damage to our bank account each time I visit home science tools!) for my children as a summer project thing, but wondering what kinds of options and such are going to be woven into the future years.
I'd look into ways to use microscopes, or lots of magnifying glasses for nature walks for now. I'm thinking of the big "hummingbird festival" around these parts once a year. At the kids craft table, they have field microscopes to look at wings and skins and feathers and anything really. they use the brock magiscope. It's a field microscope for elementary. I don't own one but thought I'd mention it as something to think about for current needs.

magnifying glasses too. ooh! mommy look, there's fuzzy stuff on the leftovers... what's that look like up close? (nah... never done that in this house... nah....)

rock and mineral collections.

I thought of another couple of kits in MFW program:
Wired! - in 1850MOD
Fun with Magnets - used in ADV, and again in EX1850 (for younger sibs), sold as individual item in ADV
(and of course in Kindy, butterflies and ants)

CTG science has a lot of fun hands on stuff. You're in ECC this year, right? (reading siggy line).... magnifying glasses on nature walks, and backyard habitat. try to do more of the terrarium in the Brazil unit. Cooking is chemistry.

oh that terrarium thing - our plants grew a long time, survived an out of state move. We ended up growing our potato experiment in it too. the radish seeds. the kiwi seeds at the end of the year - and then we moved... it was here in new city that the kiwi seeds sprouted. Freaked me out! what's growing? oh yeah...... Australia/Oceania unit. oh yeah. forgot about that. anyway, eventually the terrarium stopped. but now the same one has a new plant in it from Apologia General.

oh yeah... in EX1850, the "bean experiments". How could I forget? It was our science "cat"astrophe LOL. The bean seed sprouted. it grew. it flowered. transferred it to a mason jar it grew so much. and since it was a mason jar and a hands on learning, we named the plant - Charlotte. As in Charlotte Mason. grin. Then... the flowers were pretty, and then the pods. My cat could not take it any longer. She had to eat Charlotte Mason down to the stem! and the cat had the nerve to knock over the jar so the soil was spilled on my kitchen counter and her little paw prints on the floor with soil......

wow... it's threads like this where I start remembering all of the hands on science we do over the years and within each year that always help me to appreciate the mfw science all that much more.

-crystal

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Future Sciences, microscopes, and lab kits

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:19 pm

far above rubies wrote:Thanks!!! I have an extreme-science minded child and she asked today if she was going to be able to use a microscope and such when she's older.

I'm thinking of buying a science kit (I could do some serious damage to our bank account each time I visit home science tools!) for my children as a summer project thing, but wondering what kinds of options and such are going to be woven into the future years.
A couple more that come to mind, along with those Crystal mentioned -- during the animal study in EX1850, we did the ant kit (which is also used in K) and we got an owl pellet dissection, both of which I think are mentioned in the manual. And during 2 or 3 years, we built a volcano out of various things -- we happened to have a kit for that in one of the years, but you could do it without the kit, too.

That's a good example of how one activity (like a volcano) is often done throughout the science years, by looking at different aspects or understanding in a deeper way. So you needn't fear that doing some kit or another will spoil things when you get to them in MFW science. Especially if they're fun, then the repeat will be welcomed and will be understood even better.

Juie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

far above rubies
Posts: 75
Joined: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:31 pm

Re: Future Sciences, microscopes, and lab kits

Unread post by far above rubies » Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:22 pm

We just sent off for our ants! When we did MFWK the first time, the ant hill was one of the highlights! Those things lived for 3 entire months! We kept expecting them to die after a few weeks. It was so neat to watch them.

So, this time, I ordered the SUPER supply!!! :) :-)
K (2007-2008, 2011-2012), ADV (2010-2011), ECC (2011-2012)
2012-2013: CtG [dd (5th), ds (3rd), dd (1st), ds (3), and ds (1) ]

cbollin

Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by cbollin » Thu May 17, 2012 1:04 pm

gratitude wrote:I know the science in MFW for the early grades and 5 year cycle is much more than they would ever get in private or public school. I am wondering though does it leave them well prepared for Junior High and High school Apologia science? How is the transition into the Apologia General Science and high school science programs?

I am really enjoying reading through all the samples of every program. I am starting to get the big MFW picture that I have been needing. :)
This is experience in my family. My dh holds a PHD in chemistry from a world ranked university. We like science.

When our oldest was 3rd grade, we did CTG (remember... ADV wasn't written yet, so I did ECC in 2nd... yada yada yada). My rather arrogant attitude about the science in CTG was along the lines of "my child is sooooooooooooo above this." Good thing? my husband stopped me from ruining her love for science. I added and added and finally said "here honey.. do this with her." I don't want to say what programs we added. but... John had enough brains to say "this extra program is sucking the life out of my love for science.". we dropped it and just enjoyed the science in MFW from there out.

Then, I felt bad and stupid and asked him, "well, what does one need in elementary science?" He answered.
  • Elementary science instruction and materials should not be expected to convey laser-precise scientific detail. The principal objectives of elementary-level science should be to teach students to be curious about the world around them, to train them to observe, and to provide an introduction to the scientific method. Teaching facts about the constitution and behavior of the physical world is secondary (but by no means negligible).
We found that elementary science in MFW does just that. Helps us to be curious, train to observe, scientific method. Facts... a wide variety of topics. Call it Prego - it's in there.


How did the transition to Apologia General go?
Oldest: struggled on module 1 with matching the names of scientists to what made them famous. And a brief struggle in how to write lab reports. She always thought she had to say super fancy things when we just wanted her to state facts, and conclusions. That was the bad part of the transition. doesn't sound bad, does it? Apologia by Wile fit her fine. She's done General, Physical, Biology and just finished Chemistry. At first she hated labs in chemistry (really? can't I just read this stuff and take a test, please?) But my dh said "no." It was then we found out that she was struggling with something and then after a fit that afternoon, she realized that she had missed a sentence or two in the chapter.

Middle gal: just finished Apologia General. 7th grader. She had a much smoother transition because she wasn't first born.

so, what did I learn that I can share with you to prepare for General in 7th and you can begin to do more of in 5th and 6th grade with oldest?

*take notes in reading. just a few. write down some definitions once in a while in addition to your narrations.
*have your student do set up and clean up of experiments.
*maybe a simple write up
*and know that module 1 in General has a learning curve. tell them to take notes of those scientist and plan to study with them that first test to teach them study skills.

it is transition -- not arrival -- during 7th grade...

and to train them to "observe?" do some nature walks of some kind just like it says in MFW manual. As boring as people make the state sheets sound on the internet.... it trains their eye for detail. even if you don't do a full nature notebook.... make observations in weather patterns, sun/moon set/rise, stars, etc...... flowers growing....
gratitude wrote:Thank you Crystal. I am glad to know that I am not alone trying to add, add, add science for my first born with my arrogant attidue of really my child is sooooooooo beyond this. 8| One would think I could learn these things through reading your wise words on first borns as I have for two years. It is OK though. He has enjoyed Apologia this year with ADV, but really we only need to do one science ~ not two. The dear child after all wants to either be running or reading (not both at once, although I think he would if he could). I promise I won't do two science for ECC; absolutely promise.

Have a great evening! :-)
now I will confuse you.

it's ok to add to science if they are interested..... just add in ways that aren't about "doing another full curriculum".... add in fun stuff. experiments... doing the ones over and over... try it again.. go to the science museums.. read the extra books...

just make sure it's stuff that if you don't finish, you (teacher, uh.. crystal did this too) don't worry if you don't do it all.

if they are enjoying doing more... it's ok....

the science in CTG... the first time? I was hitting the homeschool pride buttons. "she knows this. oh, why do they have to have these corny jokes.." blush....
2nd time we did CTG -- it was so much fun. Middle gal liked it. I liked it. you can see that my dh enjoyed that candle thing. I can't believe he was willing to type all of that out that night for me.

but if something sparks an interest in science in any year.... grab some book basket books on the topic. or find something like a janice van cleave book to do a little something more. Or go buy a fun kit. keep it fun.

-crystal

momxnine
Posts: 54
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 6:09 pm

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by momxnine » Thu May 17, 2012 6:43 pm

Great thoughts, Crystal! We are terrible about science around here, but my 10 year old is at least interested. I'm going to try to do better with him and make sure we get in the nature walks and do ALL the experiments. : )
Blessings,
Vicki in SW MO.

Mom to 9, ages 10 - 31, Grammy to 4
Married 32 years, homeschooled for 25 years; 6 graduated, 3 to go

cbollin

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by cbollin » Thu May 17, 2012 7:54 pm

giggle... giggle... except on Groundhog Day!

Genesis for Kids, unit 1, the "shadow freeze" experiment will not work on flat screens. that's outdated in the book only because technology changed. I don't have a way to sub that experiment except to visit a science center with a frozen shadow room...

so it's ok to skip any experiment in Genesis for Kids that creates more stress than needed, or involves a weird supply... (I skipped the weather balloon one.)

have fun.. try... try again.. find a thread with hints.....(hopefully with less to read than my dh wrote...)

-crystal

gratitude
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by gratitude » Fri May 18, 2012 9:30 am

cbollin wrote:now I will confuse you.

it's ok to add to science if they are interested..... just add in ways that aren't about "doing another full curriculum"....
-crystal
This is exactly it ~ I added another full curriculum complete with Junior Note book. It has been a bit much, and we are only about half way through it.

He is interested though, and I think you are spurring on the thoughts of 'how' to add science. We could read the book, for fun, and do some fun experiments (not all) and skip the Junior Note books and the Apologia books could become a fun addition instead of a weighty addition for mom to do and ds8 to write-out. ;)

I am glad I am not alone though in having those moments when oldest says they already know something. It does happen. One of my joys of pouring over the ECC notes has been seeing 'how much' he doesn't know. I think the ECC science could really stretch him at this point, without it being too much, which would be good for him. I hope it isn't too much though for dear second born.

cbollin

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by cbollin » Fri May 18, 2012 9:46 am

gratitude wrote: One of my joys of pouring over the ECC notes has been seeing 'how much' he doesn't know. I think the ECC science could really stretch him at this point, without it being too much, which would be good for him. I hope it isn't too much though for dear second born.
got that covered too :)

for youngers...
do the blue box experiments. enjoy nature walks.
Maybe learn 1 vocab word in a unit...
enjoy the pictures..

and TEACH the material... don't just read it out loud.. it's a textbook style... so,, teach it.
yes... I mean like this..
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... che#p80957

but of course there are other ways as well..

-crystal

4Truth
Posts: 334
Joined: Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:59 am

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by 4Truth » Fri May 18, 2012 10:40 am

gratitude wrote:He is interested though, and I think you are spurring on the thoughts of 'how' to add science. We could read the book, for fun, and do some fun experiments (not all) and skip the Junior Note books and the Apologia books could become a fun addition instead of a weighty addition for mom to do and ds8 to write-out. ;)
If you do this, Carin, make sure to look ahead in the MFW curriculum to see which Apologia books they have scheduled along the way. Otherwise you're bound to repeat something. :) Which Apologia book is he doing now? Astronomy and Botany are both scheduled later on, and while the Apologia Human Anatomy and Land Animals books aren't used, those subjects are studied pretty in-depth later on as well.
Donna, with two MFW graduates and the "baby" in 11th grade! %| Using MFW since 2004.

Cyndi (AZ)
Posts: 543
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2007 4:22 pm

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by Cyndi (AZ) » Fri May 18, 2012 4:46 pm

gratitude wrote:I think the ECC science could really stretch him at this point, without it being too much, which would be good for him. I hope it isn't too much though for dear second born.
Crystal linked to an awesome post about using POE. I just wanted to chime in here a bit and say not to discount the Complete Book of Animals. It can seem almost preK-ish, but there's actually a lot of great info and with it being separated by continents, it fits into ECC really well. We took a few zoo trips during ECC, too, and took advantage of "African Savannah," "Tropical Rain Forest" and "Asian" exhibits. Most zoos are separated by continents to a certain extent and provide "Educator Tips" or "Pre-visit Info" or similiar on their websites. Those trips were well worth it to us!
2018/19: US1877
used MFW from K through WHL

gratitude
Posts: 677
Joined: Mon May 10, 2010 11:50 am

Re: Science in the 5-year cycle ?

Unread post by gratitude » Fri May 18, 2012 11:41 pm

I wasn't thinking of POE. That would be a perfect solution for ds7 and maybe even dd5 would enjoy joining in for it. Thank you. Also our zoo is divided by continents, and I am looking forward to pointing that fact out more with them during ECC.

Thank you too Crystal for the reminder, and the notes, to 'teach' POE and not just read it. It is too easy for me to just sit down and read science, but it really takes more than that for learning to take place.

Thank you ladies! :-)

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests