Grammar - Ideas when struggling

Issues specific to teaching 6th to 8th graders, including the transition to Saxon math, Apologia science, Progeny Press guides, and grammar lessons
cbollin

Grammar - Ideas when struggling

Unread post by cbollin »

tiffany wrote:How much hand-holding have you had to do with the 8th grade grammar program? I thought it seemed straightforward and simple enough to do independently, but my daughter is struggling with the subject. I thought Applications was better written and offered more explanation than All In One, so I thought she would catch on this year, but so far not really. We are continually having to redo entire lessons, which is frustrating for both of us.

While we are on the subject, my oldest son will be ready for All in One next year and I must confess I am not crazy about the resource. I feel it is fairly weak in instruction and examples. I do not feel this way about Applications. Does anyone have substitute ideas for All in One? I would like some other options at the same level to look at.
Well, my oldest is doing fine with Applications. Some of the lessons she needs some limited help. She is the type of learner who wants to just grab the book and go for it. Not all children are like that just because they reach jr. high.

If grammar is just a weak subject for your daughter, or if she just isn't ready for reading all of it on her own, don't feel pressured to have to hand over the book to her just because she is 8th grade age. You can take the 5-10 minutes to teach the lesson out loud to her by reading through it with her and discussing it. Then let her practice the lessons on her own. Then go over missed problems. But I would try to find 5-10 minutes to spend studying the material together, then let her try on her own.


Same thing with All in One. Some children are not ready for full independent self teaching just because they are in jr. high school. You can take the 5 minutes to go over those lessons and let him try. Or take 10 minutes (5 to go over the info just before the exercises. 5 minutes to do a few problems together. Let him do the rest on his own and then go over missed stuff.)

I've heard All in One was updated/edited very recently and MFW might even be selling the newer version. Haven't seen it to verify that. just hearsay.


I don't think of "hand holding" as a bad thing if a young student still needs some direct instruction. We do that with things like Saxon math with DIVE CD (and/or other math programs for jr. high and high schoolers that have a video teaching component). It's just that Applications and All in One don't have a ready to sell teacher to help guide through the text. The good thing is that those lessons are huge time consuming on mom to talk it out loud for a student who needs it.

-crystal
Julie in MN
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Unread post by Julie in MN »

Hi Tiffany,
I don't have 6 kids, but I have a hard time thinking that 8th grade kids don't need a teacher. I know my kids *think* they don't need a teacher, but *I* think they do!

I know the Hazells, with their 6 kids, seemed to have their kids do grammar independently. Maybe the kids corrected it themselves or in other ways learned from their mistakes as they went along? Maybe necessity's the mother of invention in a large family. I just can't say.

At my house, I teach most new information. It's really not a lot with All-In-One, but I make sure ds sees & hears the directions. If I'm not able to be there when he reads them, then I highlight main parts so he can hardly skip over them!

Ds does make mistakes with it. I found a lot of little things needed to be worked on & was glad we were starting with something not very intensive. For instance, sometimes he actually knew the correct grammar but thought AIO was telling him he was wrong, so he made more errors rather than fewer <sigh> But.. it was all still a lesson -- maybe in having confidence in what you already know & being sure you understand it correctly if there is a conflict. Anyways, he's progressing in looking at grammar more closely, plus he's progressing in many details having to do with independent work.

As for an alternative to AIO, it sounds like you want something that is more extensive? You don't want the quick-n-easy route LOL?! Are you thinking something more like the 8th grade grammar book for 7th?

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
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tiffany
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Unread post by tiffany »

Julie,

No, I love quick and easy. I just thought there wasn't enough info. in the book to do some of the later lessons of All in One without a lot of extra tutoring on my part. But again, it was my first time using it and every child is different.

I guess it was my understanding that these were independent style, fill-in-the-blank type books. Maybe they are for some kids. I guess I was hoping for something that wouldn't involve so much time on my part.

She really has a hard time retaining information on grammar, even some of the more simple terms are difficult for her to keep straight. It might have been helpful for her to have a greater introduction to grammar terms in her elementary years. I wouldn't want a lengthy formal program, but in retrospect I do wish the PLL and ILL threw in a bit more grammar terminology.

Grammar seems like another subject to me that could be taught in a CD-rom format. Has anyone come up with something like that?

With 6 kids I like to feel like I'm using my teaching time most efficiently. I have spent a substantial amount of time reviewing with her, and it just isn't sticking.
Tiffany
Wife to Tim ('88)
Mother to Sophie 16, Jonathan 14, Joey 12, Noah 10, Matthew 8, Eli 4
Have completed MFWK, MFW 1st grade, ECC, CTG, RTR, Exp.-1850,1850-Mod., HS Ancients, HS World
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Julie in MN
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Unread post by Julie in MN »

Tiffany,
Hmmm... So the 7th grade book with short instructions didn't work, but neither is the 8th grade book with longer instructions? The books aren't working on their own, but neither are your own personal instructions as you work beside her on review?

I guess I'm wondering what specifically is difficult for her. Is she confused by the more detailed names of parts of speech, or is she having trouble even when she is filling in blanks that should just "sound wrong" to her by now? Is she getting the easier stuff, like punctuation and naming a noun/verb, but getting stuck on the more advanced stuff, like adverbs and objective case? How is her independent writing in her history notebook?

If it's just memorizing all those names of parts of speech that she can't retain, then I'll just say that I didn't know many names of parts of speech until I was in my 40s. I still graduated from college :o) But if her grammar troubles are causing her to have trouble writing sentences properly, then that's more concerning because it affects how people view & understand what she has to say.

Ah, just some thoughts going around in my head, since I tutor in reading as well as homeschool.
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002+)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs
cbollin

Unread post by cbollin »

I think ILL in the 6th grade portion did a lot with grammar and parts of speech. Maybe she could use the Review Sections of ILL to write down some definitions again or look it up. lessons 195, 248, 301

I'm wondering out loud.
I think she needs study skills to help her study from the text book. This is a lot like when my oldest struggled at first with Apologia General Science, module 1. It is worth it to take a week and work with the oldest on the study skills even if the other kids don't get a full school day in.

*Have your 8th grade take notes from Applications in Grammar. Don't just read the book or tell her to read it. Many students do not learn from just reading.
*Have her make notecards with the definitions, and with the Rules. Keep a notebook, or card holder to look them up.
*My 7th grader uses a paperclip or two (or you can use sticky notes) to be able to quickly go back and look stuff up. We treat Applications like an open book test.
*teach her to highlight the book with key words as she is reading. It's a workbook, so she can write it in.
*Let her talk out loud while reading. Put the stuffed animals in front of her (shhh..... we won't tell at her age) and let her talk out loud. Some people retain better when they talk and study at the same time.


But I would look at starting with teaching her study skills especially if you don't have a lot of time to work with her or highlight the book ahead of time (like Julie does with All in One). I'm not sure that jumping around to find other things will help as much as giving her study skill help. Part of "independent learning" is learning how to study.

-crystal
Julie in MN
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Struggling with Applications of Grammar

Unread post by Julie in MN »

JoyfulDancer wrote:My 8th grader is doing Applications of Grammar this year, and I just realized she's really struggling with it. Okay, I know I should have been on top of her work more, but she loves to go off to the quiet of her own room to do her work, and then I forget to check it. We recently discovered the tests, so I gave her all 5 she had missed. She did horribly and knew it. So now I have to go back and wade through the thing with her.

I am intimidated by this book. I always did well with grammar and like to write, and this book has stuff in it I can't understand myself. She did fine last year with the 7th gr. book, but this is just overwhelming. Tonight I'm going to go through and correct EVERYTHING she's done so far and try to get an idea where she's having trouble, but I know it's not going to be easy. Are we the only ones struggling like this? Can someone please help me help her? :~

Thanks,
Laurie
Hi Laurie,
I wrote something about how I look at 8th grade grammar here:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 071#p77071

I look at it something like K & 1st -- get a solid foundation in the basics in 7th, and get exposure to the rest in 8th -- to be continued throughout high school and probably most useful when discussed during the student's actual writing.

I'm sure several of us would be glad to help with specific problem areas, just let us know what your questions are. But in general I wouldn't beat yourselves up because you can't keep gerunds and participals straight :)
JoyfulDancer wrote:Thanks, Julie. So, in other words, relax. Don't worry about it if she doesn't understand or remember every tiny twist of grammar in that book, look at it as reenforcing what she's already learned, and work on problem areas. Did I get that right? How many days/week did you schedule this book, or how many pages/lessons per day?
Crystal and her daughter shared a schedule that might help:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=8989

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002+)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs
Amy C.
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by Amy C. »

momxnine wrote:Are we talking about the same child here???? Sounds like we're in the same boat.
I guess we can commisserate with each other! :-)

Looks like grammar (and writing) are going to have to be high priorities this next year around here. He has been spending a lot of time trying to get caught up in math, even though I have come to the realization that he is not behind. He is just not on the strong math path. Even though he thinks that he wants to be an engineer, I am just having to accept where we are and trust that God will lead him in the direction that He wants him to go. I can't keep putting other things, like writing, on the backburner just because he doesn't like it. High school is looming, and I know he needs more writing instruction than he has gotten.

We did do grammar, but obviously, it was not enough for him. I'm hoping he just needed a break and some of it will "settle" in there somewhere! :-)

I know we are not exactly in the same boat because my son has one more year before high school, but let me know what you find out. I am interested to know.

Amy C.
ilovemy4kids
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S/O Grammar question

Unread post by ilovemy4kids »

Amy C. wrote:My upcoming 8th grader did All in One English last year. Prior to that he did ILL for 2 years. We have done some formal grammar in elementary years, CM in the middle school years, and then formal grammar in 7th grade. He worked on All in One independently except when he needed my help which was not very often. I was always available to help him when needed. I even would periodically check on him while he was working, asking if he needed my help. He would usually always say, "No", that he was fine. But on the few times he said he needed my help, I would help him.

Fast forward to end of year, when taking the end-of-year final assessment, he asked me a lot of questions. He seemed to need a lot of help from me. I would remind him of what something was to refresh his memory, but the questions just kept increasing. I ended up helping him more than I thought I should have. I told him that that was like a test and I could not keep giving him the answers. But he kept asking, until I finally told him if he needed help remembering what something was to just look it up in the book to refresh his memory. I have not scored it yet because I don't know if it will be an accurate indicator. It wasn't just needing to be refreshed. There were some sections where he sat beside me and asked me with every sentence if he was marking the right answer and to help him know what to mark in the sentence. I truly believe he did not know.

He is a voracious reader, but very much dislikes writing. I will say that he took this final assessment in June after we were officially through with school. His brothers were through and he was ready to be finished. He didn't think it was fair, but once he got started he had an okay attitude about it. I also let him take it over 2 days. He took it about 2 weeks after the official end of the school year.

My question is...Do you think this will improve over the next year? I am worried that we are one year away from high school and he seems to struggle so with grammar. Maybe I am making more out of it than I should, but I just thought he should have known more than he did. He can't pronounce the words adjective and preposition/prepositional (phrase) correctly even though I have told/reminded him multiple times. I do plan to make up some grammar cards with parts of speech, their definition, and examples to go over with him and to keep as a reminder when working on grammar this next year. I guess I am having a little breakdown of sorts about this and need some help, suggestions, reassurance, etc. So any you can give would be appreciated.
momxnine wrote:Are we talking about the same child here???? Sounds like we're in the same boat.
I guess we can commiserate with each other! :-)

Looks like grammar (and writing) are going to have to be high priorities this next year around here. He has been spending a lot of time trying to get caught up in math, even though I have come to the realization that he is not behind. He is just not on the strong math path. Even though he thinks that he wants to be an engineer, I am just having to accept where we are and trust that God will lead him in the direction that He wants him to go. I can't keep putting other things, like writing, on the backburner just because he doesn't like it. High school is looming, and I know he needs more writing instruction than he has gotten.

We did do grammar, but obviously, it was not enough for him. I'm hoping he just needed a break and some of it will "settle" in there somewhere! :-)
Amy C.
I'd like to suggest following MFW's recomendation of Applications of Grammar book 1 for both of you. I STRONGLY wish I had done it instead of just stopping after the All in One English. Just my two cents worth!

My 16 year old will be doing the Easy Grammar Ultimate 11th grade as suggested, but if he struggles with it, we will have to "back up." Oh the trouble that could have been avoided if I had just used the Applications of grammar book! :~
Amy C.
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by Amy C. »

ilovemy4kids wrote:I'd like to suggest following MFW's recomendation of Applications of Grammar book 1
Yes, we will be using this this upcoming year. I was just wondering if anyone else had a child who had gone through All-in-One English and had a similar experience as us and what they did. I know he has another year of grammar before high school. I guess I expected him to have retained more from this last year. Maybe this next year it will all just click. I hope so anyway.

And glad to know this won't be the last exposure to grammar before college.

Amy C.
cbollin

Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by cbollin »

Amy,
I'm not the biggest fan of the pre test and post test in All in One. end of year... maybe he was just not wanting a test after school was done?

I'm more concerned that my children can write a sentence instead of label and box the sentence.

My oldest struggled with the tests in Applications of Grammar. She's writing well and scored great on only standardized test she's done (PSAT). And there are times she can't pronounce things correctly either.

There's nothing wrong at his age of having a reference book to look stuff up as needed. A good writer's handbook is nice for caps rules, punctuation, and checking whether you're supposed to use good or well.

on vicki's thread, I left a link to some online games. play those. if the games on that link get to be too young for him... step up to online writing lab at purdue university and do some online exercises in grammar.
http://owl.english.purdue.edu/owl/section/1/5/

I would look more at editing skills in writing and not as much with identification of parts of speech.

I can't remember if it was this thread of the other one... people are looking at easy grammar in jr. high .... in those books, they take a prepositional approach. I've used the original jr. high EG book.. I wouldn't recommend it b/c of the prep approach. I know the 11th grade Ultimate series doesn't do the scratch out all prepositional phrases first approach. It works for some, but I'm not sure it would work in this cases on this thread.

[Editor's note: Tests were removed from the Applications of Grammar set during 2017.]
Amy C.
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by Amy C. »

Thanks for the links, Crystal! I have saved them for future use.

And thanks for the encouragement and suggestions!

Ok...Breathe in...Breathe out....Its going to be okay.

Amy C.
momxnine
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by momxnine »

The Applications to Grammar is what we used this past year (while doing ECC), that he failed miserably at. :( I even had him go back and do half the book over, it just wasn't "clicking" for him.

Crystal, thanks for your thoughts on EG, it's been many years since I used it with some of my olders. I remembered that they did the prepositional phrases like that, but that's all I could remember about it. I'll look into the Ultimate series more, like maybe the younger grades (if there are any). Or maybe I'll just keep all of our reference books handy and not worry about it until 11th grade. He's not even very good at writing well, so we may want to focus more on that this year instead of actually dissecting a sentence.

Amy, my Luke keeps getting stuck on math too. lol He hasn't ever said he wanted to be an engineer though. The only thing he's ever said was maybe being a pilot. But then he adds, "But I have to fly in a plane first to see if I like flying." :-) After doing ECC last year, I kept thinking maybe he'll be a missionary pilot. We'll see. I just keep telling him to learn as much as he can about all different things and pray and see where the Lord leads him over the next 4 years.
Blessings,
Vicki in SW MO.

Mom to 9, ages 10 - 31, Grammy to 4
Married 32 years, homeschooled for 25 years; 6 graduated, 3 to go
gratitude
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by gratitude »

((Hugs))
&) This will be an embarrassing post, so I started with the red face, but I think it might help.

I was put in the gifted program in school in 6th grade so never learned any 'formal grammar' or sentence diagramming since it was all based on reading classical literature and writing essays.

So when my oldest reached first grade I ordered All in One English to see if one I could learn grammar through it, and two if this was the path I wanted for my children. I worked through about the first third of the book and found it very difficult to learn from. We do use R&S with PLL as a result of this experience; but I also believe grammar can be learned by a 14 year old who hasn't had any extensive grammar. I too am an avid reader, grammar does not come naturally, and he may just need it explained in a different way then the book presented the material. Perhaps you can explain it to him too.

I hope the others suggestion of going on to Applications to Grammar will be helpful for you.

Blessings,
cbollin

Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by cbollin »

(((hugs))) carin.

I've had 2 children who didn't struggle in all in one, at all.

then I think of all of Julie's stories about how she didn't really learn grammar until she was in her 40's.... and was teaching it to others.

then I remember.. giggle giggle.... 7th grade language arts in public school. I was in the 'gifted" class of that subject. giggle... the teacher didn't teach diagramming or any of it... . she heard us sing School House Rock and realized we knew that and it was good enough...

giggle... similar thing happened in 12th grade gov't. The teacher was ready for the usual moans and groans of "do we really have to memorize the preamble?" She got that each year until us... (oh yeah.. the same class that had been told since Kindy, you're the worst class I've ever had!" We looked at the teacher and said "we can sing it right?" and the whole class broke out into School House Rock "We the people....."

and then, we all followed up with I'm Just a Bill.....

I think we passed gov't that year. LOL LOL

I find it quite interesting, a noun's a person place or thing........ oh...... I took a train took a train to another state....... and I unpacked my adjectives... tell about it with adjectives.... Interjections! show excitement or emotions, they're generally set apart from a sentence by an exclamation point, or by a comma when the feeling's not as strong.

so if you're happy
hurray!
or sad (aww)
or frightened (eek!)
or mad (rats!)
Excited (WoW!!)
or glad (Hey!)
an injection starts the sentence right......

darn, that's the end
LSH in MS
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by LSH in MS »

We had very good results with Saxon (Hake) Grammar this year. My 8th grader did the 8th grade book just to get one last review of grammar before high school. He did very well with it. It starts at the beginning of grammar and has built in incremental review like the Saxon Math books. I used Hake Grammar 5 with my 6th grade dyslexic son with astounding results. He struggled all year through it. It was very difficult for him, but the constant review must have helped him. When he took his standardized test he only missed one out of 55 in the language section! I can't tell you how encourged I was. This is a major breakthrough for him!!!
Amy C. wrote:Lori,
I looked at Hake Grammar on their website. I see that it is grammar and writing. The scope and sequence says that it teaches paragraphs, topic sentences, supporting sentences, etc. Did you do this along side WWS? What level of Hake grammar did you do with your 8th grader? Level 8? Thanks for the info. Just would like to know a little more.
No, I did not do the writing portion, just the grammar. We already had WWS. He did level 8
Amy C. wrote:I wonder if the Hake grammar would work for both our grammar and writing needs. Do you have a recommendation on this?
I looked through it and this is what it covers: review of paragraphs and topic sentences, review of the parts of an essay, explanation and practice writing expository, persuasive and descriptive essays, how to write an imaginative story, chapter summary, short story summary, 3 lessons on writing poetry, and avoiding plagiarism. This actually looks like good preparation for AHL. There are 33 Writing Lessons in the Writing book. In the grammar book there are also journal prompts and dictation exercises in addition to the grammar lessons.

In the introduction of the 8th grade writing book it states that in the 7th grade book they learned in detail all of the parts of an essay, outlines, research papers,imaginative stories, and poetry. It said they would practice all those forms again in greater detail. I guess you could get 8 and then see if you need to get 7. It could be that the review in 8 is enough.
Lori

wife to Clifford, mother to ds (17), ds (16), ds (15, ds (13), ds (8), and ds (3)
MFW user for 10 years
LSH in MS
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Re: S/O Grammar question

Unread post by LSH in MS »

momxnine wrote:Lori, Do you think the Hake grammar would be too much to go along with AHL? Or do you know? If you haven't done any MFW high school yet, you may not know. I looked at the sample of Grade 8 and it looks pretty tough.
Well, if they needed it I would do it. There are practice problems for the lessons of the day, and then the review set which contains 30 problems. There is optional dictation twice a week and journal prompts 2-3 times per week. We didn't do those. I cut down the time required for the lessons a lot by allowing them to underline in the book instead of writing everything on separate paper. It took my son about 30-45 minutes per day to do it. If I did add it to AHL I probably wouldn't do any electives (such as Logic) or foreign language.

The times I listed were just for the grammar, not for the writing. If you did the writing too, I would just have the student read the lessons and apply that knowledge to the assignments in AHL. I also might not have them do all of the history papers.

I am learning as I go. My oldest just completed AHL. He did well, but I could tell he is weak in writing and grammar. I wish I would have had him do Hake Grammar in 8th grade but I didn't know about it then. We worked on grammar as it came up in his writing and did the grammar lessons included in the lit supplement. Looking back I wish I would have spent a lot more time in his 8th grade year working on his weaknesses. I was pregnant that year and did not get as much accomplished as other years.
Lori

wife to Clifford, mother to ds (17), ds (16), ds (15, ds (13), ds (8), and ds (3)
MFW user for 10 years
Poohbee
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How do you use Applications of Grammar?

Unread post by Poohbee »

klewfor3 wrote:
Tue Aug 30, 2016 9:03 am
Do we read the lesson together? Should he do it on his own?

Thanks!
Kathy
Hi Kathy!
I don't know what the official recommendation is, but I think you could do it either way.

From personal experience, I think it is best to either read the lesson with your student or at least hit the high points with them afterward to be sure they are understanding everything. My oldest did it completely independently, but I wish that I would have read through the lesson with her or would have done some direct instruction with her. I go through the grammar lessons with her now, to be sure she has a clear understanding of everything.

So, you could probably let your son do it on his own, but it certainly doesn't hurt to do some direct instruction to be sure the understanding is there. Just my .02 worth. :-)
Jen
happily married to Vince (19 yrs)
blessed by MFW since 2006
have used every year K-1850MOD
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ruthamelia
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Re: How do you use Applications of Grammar?

Unread post by ruthamelia »

I think Jen is right- you can do this book either way. It's more about what works for the individual student.

My nephew finished All In One about half way through the year. So now he is about half way through Applications. He is a pretty independent and very bright 13 year old, and I would say he is able to do about half of the book on his own.

When he knows he isn't getting it on his own he tells me and we go through it together. Sentence diagramming was entirely new to both of us- I think that was near the beginning of the book? We watched some you tube videos to get us started, and then after one or two practice problems in a new section, he could usually continue on his own. I wouldn't say he has mastered the material from either book (meaning, he wouldn't be able to go through the practice problems again and get them all correct) but he is definitely more aware of grammar and usage and much more familiar with grammar terminology than he was before, and that's good enough for me.

All that to say... use it in whatever way works best for you!
Kids in school: 15, 13, 11, 8, 6, 4, 4
We have used: K, First, all Investigate years
2018-2019: First, ECC, AHL
Julie in MN
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Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by Julie in MN »

Amarie wrote:
Fri Sep 02, 2016 11:56 am
Hi, I am looking for advice on how to teach Applications of Grammar and how to help a struggling student. My seventh grader does most of his work independently, and is so far doing great except for grammar. We are two weeks into the school year, he is on lesson three and has had to redo the lesson once, still getting most of the answers wrong. I'm not sure what to do or how to proceed.

On another note, the transformation that has taken place in our home and in our children over these past two weeks is absolutely wonderful, and I thank the Lord for leading us to MFW. My husband and I are very pleased!

Amy
Hi Amy,
Fun to hear how your family has been blessed, as ours has.

I opened up our copy of Applications and thought I'd throw out a few thoughts.

1. In my family, the parts of speech (now in Language Lessons) were an important foundation and I pushed for mastery. However, Applications adds all the details that were not expected to reach mastery at my house. My focus was on helping my son realize that when his sentences weren't working, there was probably a logical, grammatical reason that he could fix.

2. For Lesson 3 on kinds of verbs, the main idea for me would be that the traditional idea of a verb as "doing something" (as in, He jumped) isn't always the case in sentences. Sometimes verbs just show "existence" (linking verbs - He is, or He seems). And sometimes verbs are more than one word (including a helping verb like the example they give, Mary has gone). If I were going over this with my child after doing the lesson twice, I'd just ensure he could talk with me about those. Some years I actually had my son create a small notebook and list each difficult grammar fact and an example. When I used to be a tutor, I found that re-doing lessons too many times just created good memorizers :)

3. Over the years, occasionally students have posted questions (or answers) on this Message Board. Of course, he would want to use your user name or create something generic (one I remember was MFW Student). Sometimes forming his question into words actually helps him figure out what exactly he isn't getting. Or, if you are an internet-familiar-family, you might search something like YouTube or Khan Academy for a further explanation. Here is a video on "helping verbs" (I didn't view it to see if it would really help :) ) https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ ... ch-grammar . Again, allowing the student to identify what exactly he needs to find out can be beneficial.

4. In many of the early lessons, the student can find the answers just by looking carefully at the previous examples. The exercises often draw words right from the previous examples.

Hopefully others will have personal experiences that worked for them!
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
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Christy - Staff
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Re: Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by Christy - Staff »

Hi Amy,

Just checking to see if your child completed [Language Lessons For Today 6] already? It has a great review and helps build a firm foundation before completing Applications of Grammar.

We also recommend working through the lesson with the student. This can help them build confidence and provide the opportunity for questions before completing the exercises.
Christy Callahan - MFW Customer Service Team Lead
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Mom to 5 blessings and foster mom to many
TriciaMR
Posts: 987
Joined: Thu Sep 20, 2007 11:43 am

Re: Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by TriciaMR »

I've had to do the lessons *with* my twin boys. We tried a couple with me having them read the lessons and do the exercises themselves, and that just didn't work.
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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klewfor3
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:14 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by klewfor3 »

I am struggling with Applications as well. My 13 year old and I just finished lesson 3 together...we've been doing the lessons together...I am finding that even after reading the lessons, I am not sure of the answers! Right now I sit with the answer book on my lap and as he goes through the book I will tell him things like "look for one more", or "that one isn't a linking verb", etc. Mastery is NOT happening right now. I am wondering if this is ok? What is the goal?

Sorry, not trying to latch onto your thread but we are finding this book is a little TOO tough for mastery...I don't want to go a whole year if I should try something else.

Thanks,
Kathy
Kathy
Mom of Tyler 13, Paige 10, Brooklyn 9 and Chase 3
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We've used:
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Amarie
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Re: Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by Amarie »

Hi Kathy, that's exactly what I'm struggling with too. This week we did up through lesson 5 I think. Even after going through it with him and helping him correct things, I am not sure he really understands it, and I'm concerned he will not retain things for the tests. I don't remember grammar well enough to help without relearning as we go. I suppose this isn't a bad thing, I just need to find time for that, and try to figure out how to get ahead of him maybe. It is difficult starting out a new year trying to fit everything in and learning what needs attention, especially with multiple kids. If you figure anything out let me know! ;)

We did do the recommended book last year for sixth grade. I don't remember him struggling through it.

Thank you to the other few ladies who commented last week, I really appreciated your help. I did look up the khan academy link, it was very helpful and my son likes watching the video. I bookmarked the website and we may use it some more if needed.

Amy
Christy - Staff
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Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:09 pm

Re: Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by Christy - Staff »

Some children grasp grammar concepts more quickly and will have mastery at this level. Some will find grammar much more difficult. Our 8th grade grammar book, Easy Grammar Ultimate Series, was chosen specifically for this reason. It gives more instruction in bite-size chunks for those who don't quite remember the grammatical concepts in each lesson. But it also serves as a comprehensive review for those who have already mastered grammar concepts.

I know it can be hard to find time to sit with your 7th grader for grammar, so you are to be congratulated for taking that time. It's really important. The interaction between the parent/teacher and the student is invaluable.
Christy Callahan - MFW Customer Service Team Lead
Wife to Mike (homeschooling dad)
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klewfor3
Posts: 80
Joined: Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:14 pm
Location: Illinois

Re: Struggling with Applications of Grammar and praise for Mfw

Unread post by klewfor3 »

Just a follow up my last post...the testing did not go well for my ds but partially because I missed that I was supposed to be giving a test every 5 lessons or so. I thought the book would prompt you but I didn't see it if it did. Anyways, I was through the first unit completely before we did any tests so I let him do an open book test. He still struggled, but we'll keep plugging away.

One thing I am excited I found was a game on our iPad called Grammar Pop. I am really pleased with how simple but direct the game is. A sentence "pops" up and you have to identify the Noun, Verb, Article, Adjective, Preposition, etc (depending on the level you are on). I have him play this game 4-5 times a week and I really think it will help reinforce what we are doing with Applications. It isn't free but I feel it was a good deal for $1.99.

Just thought I would throw that out there in case anyone else could use a game to help with this subject! I even started it with my 5th grade dd because it starts out really basic. She enjoys it!

Kathy
Kathy
Mom of Tyler 13, Paige 10, Brooklyn 9 and Chase 3
God bless us!
We've used:
MFW-K
MFW 1st (both versions)
MFW ADV
ECC
CTG
RTR
Expl-1850
Currently using 1850-Modern Times (2016/2017)
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