ECC - How is it different for 7th & 8th Graders?

[cbollin]

If I get ECC for my 7th & 8th graders, will I need to add on "extra" things?

Can they do a lot of it themselves? They are kind of beyond me sitting w/ them and teaching them things, they want to do it on their own.

Also...what about Bible, memory verses? Are they more geared towards younger children?

Kim

Although I'm not there yet, I've heard some of the ideas for what can be done more independently.

The older missionary biographies are independent reading.

The language arts books -- All in One English and/or Applications of Grammar -- those are independent to use in jr. high. Also, Progeny Press and Total Language Plus guides are geared for students to use more on their own when they are jr.high age.

MFW includes lesson plans for students who are using Apologia Science programs. So that can be independent.

Math: with help from DIVE cd's, isn't Saxon able to be done more independently? I'm just asking that out loud really.

Many of the things in ECC with research skills will be independent by older students.

Even things in the Bible section (hero tales, and reading from Matthew) -- that can be done altogether or by self for older.

So, yes, for the ages of your oldest children, much of ECC can be done independently.

Is the Bible study too young for them? The pace of the memory verses are geared for younger children. So you could add a little more here and there to fit your children's needs. All of the verses come from Matthew, so you could have the older children just learn a bit more before/after the focus verse. Plus your older children will be supplementing with the extra set of missionary biographies that the younger ones will not do. It depends a bit on the child for memory verse selection.

I hope that make sense.
-crystal

[bdking]

Hello,
My 8th gr. ds is doing ECC this year along with my 4th grader (my mfw1 student and preschooler will be tagging along).

ECC comes with one book called Challenging World Geography for grades 5-8. This book will be source of a lot of researching for my older child. It is workbook style, but it does require research to get the answers. This makes up the packets that are referred to in ECC.

Also, there is a summary form in the TM for each continent studied. The older child will have to do some research and writing to put together a coherent summary. As suggested by MFW, I purchased the BJUP Geography text to help with these projects. I suspect we will need to use the internet and other library resources sometimes. All of these things are really part of the curriculum. You just add the Geog. text and research time and guidance. I picture us working together sometimes if he struggles.

For Bible, he will join in with ECC for most of that including the memory verses. He is also reading a Bruce and Stan book about World Religions in the early part of the year. He is also working on the One Year Bible. We enjoy helping overseas orphanages so we will probably make sure we can work in a project to help sometime in the year (raise funds, collect supplies, etc.). I am hoping to let him take a lead role in planning this.

For literature, I have chosen books for his level from the book basket list (plus a few others I knew of) along with the missionary set suggested by MFW. I will use two progeny press guides over the year (one at the beginning of the year for The Yearling and another one at the end of the year). For those books which we do not use the PP guides, we will discuss the books each week and talk about setting, description, tone, etc. This is just something we like to do. Hopefully, my son will also do some book reviews of some of the books that he reads, posting these to a blog we will be creating. I see this as a laid back Friday activity when MFW is lighter. We'll see. We may not get to this. The reading plus the PP guides as MFW recommends is really enough. We will just add the book discussions as we can since we like to do it.

We will do the Read-Alouds MFW recommends. I think all the kids will enjoy these.

We are adding Math, Writing and Grammar.

I wasn't thinking of adding much to MFW. I think the curriculum as is along with their jr. high suggestions will be just right for us.
Barbra King

[Julie in MN]

I am still trying to decide if I should do ECC w/ a 7th and 8th grader. I wanted this mainly for my 7th and 8th grader but hesitate using something that is not intended for that age group.

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 4:42 pm

I may have mentioned :o) that I love ECC. We used it in 3rd and I look forward to using it again in 8th. I feel ECC is really the heart of MFW, and comes out of the Hazell's missionary experience.

However, I think that *your* final decision needs to be based on what *you* want them to get out of ECC.

ECC's basic package will:
* teach your kids where many, many countries are
* let them know why they chose their flags
* let them experience their foods
* teach them how to pray for people of the world
* celebrate the role of missionaries around the world
* introduce a bit of each culture -- what the language looks & sounds like, what children's songs they sing, what traditional clothing is worn, some of the famous art or architecture
* introduce a bit of each environment -- how crowded, how much space, prominent biomes (deserts, mountains, rainforests), maybe a few major occupations or industries
* make other countries seem as colorful and interesting -- and as loved by God -- as our own

You will not just spend 10 minutes on these things & then forget them. Instead, you will "visit" each country and really experience these things in many ways. Not only your children but you, as their teacher, are likely to remember these things long into the future.

However, ECC's basic package, without adding a focus to book basket or emphasizing the advanced work, will not:
* expect your children to memorize dates or names
* emphasize the wars, national history, or current events
* teach the ancient ancestry of the country
* guarantee your child will remember every capital, every mountain peak, or every gross national product


Well, this isn't an official list, but it's how I would explain what is important in ECC, and what you might want to think thru. Blessings in your efforts,
Julie

[Lucy]

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2008 5:53 pm

I am using ECC for a 2nd time around with my 7th grader who also did it as a 2nd grader with his 4th grade sister 5 years ago.

Much of the information covered really is appropriate for 2nd -8th graders. The geography terms are good vocabulary for any age. Also learning where over 100 countries are located, and learning about some of the flags, cooking dishes,and getting an over-all feel for the culture is all multi-level.

The research packets created for each continent from World Geography and as well as adding the country reports for 7th and 8th graders adds the extra level of learning needed for older elementary and jr. high students.

The 7th and 8th grade novels are all excellent! I have read them all(finishing The Narrow Road for the first time) prior to this study. Since my son is the only one doing the program I have been reading them aloud while he is reading other books for his reading, but they could definitely be readers for 7th nd 8th graders.

Here is what we have done so far as far as schedule and it seems to be working well.

For country summaries MFW has already scheduled a country that is being highlighted every 2 weeks so we just used that country to do our report on. We are also doing the geography pages from World Geography, so here is what we have done. These are small report gathering summaries. They give an opportunity for you to focus on a few countries in each continent. MFW provides an outline for you to follow for making the summaries.

Monday and Wednesday: Research the country(you will do this for 2 weeks meaning 4 times to work on it)

Tuesday and Thursday: World Geography, the pages can be divided over the entire time that is spent on the continent, which is anywhere from 2 weeks(Australia and Antarctica each) to 10 weeks(Asia).

Country Report: MFW provides a book called Writing a Country Report to help with this project. This is a longer report on a country of your students choice.

Ok. so here is what I think we will do (since we are not there yet). We will be finished at this point with the World Geo. pages for Asia, if we use the same pace that we have been using(end of week 26). So hear is a break from the readers(for 2 weeks, look below for explanation) and the World Geo. pages,so for the next 4 weeks I am going to have him work on the country report(not be confused with the summaries described above) as part of reading(research) and in place of the World Geo. on Tuesdays and Thursdays. This means on those 2 days instead of reading time he will work on his report,so he will work about an hour on his country report those 2 days. On Mon. and Wed. he will work 30mins. in place of the World Geography Packets. He will still be doing a country summary report as well for whatever country is being highlighted that week which he will continue to work on. I may have him drop the country summary though to concentrate on just the one country he is working on for his report. For us if I wait to the very end of the school year to do the country report I am afraid it will not get done.


The following shows when we are using the readers for 7th and 8th graders suggested by MFW:
(This includes two literature studies for the year)

North America: the first 8 weeks he did a literature study(Progeny Press or Total Lang. Plus are 2 MFW suggests) Choose any book here. My son choose Bridge to Terabithia.

South America: Bruchko(divided up for the 3 weeks was about 2 chapters a day)

Europe: The Narrow Road--good thing we have six weeks to finish this one since it is long and so are the chapters. We are doing a chapter a today. We are behind right now though.

Africa: next 4 weeks will be our 2nd lit. study for the year (he will use Progeny Press again to study and read The Hobbit) Africa is only 3 weeks but since Asia is 10 weeks long I am going to take a month to do our study and then start the next book.

Asia: I Dared to Call Him Father(at a chapter a day this will take you 4 weeks so this puts us at the end of week 26 with 4 weeks left in Asia.

Week 29(still 2 weeks left in Asia) Begin reading Peace Child at one chapter a day and this will take you to the end of the year. At this point he will only be working about a 1/2 hour on his country report each day, since he is now reading a book. By then I hope that my son will have done his research and will now just be focusing on writing the report.

Australia and Antarctica: Peace Child(started in week 29)


I know this is a lot of information, but I hope this will help you to see how the adaptations that MFW has offered for ECC do bring it up to that level as well as how easy it is to make it work.

Lucy

[Teresa in TX]

We used ECC last year, and with the "extras" that were given for ECC for the older set, it felt like my dd (in 7th last year) had a "full" year with the research papers and country reports she was doing on a bi-weekly basis, along with the planned missionary books. Bible was meaty.

[ElizabethC]

Hey there everyone again!!! We got our entire package for ECC and are gearing up to start our school year! I have a couple of questions that I've been searching for, but cannot seem to find {I am sure they are somewhere out there} so I thought I'd just do one post and ask questions! Let me just say a huge thank you for helping me in advance! Also, I know we are all different in teaching, learning, and how we do things but I would love your opinions and suggestions!

Okay..

1. Our DD is in the 8th grade, we are supplementing the literature guides. We got all of the missionary biographies already but I am not sure what literature guide I am supposed to chose and where that would be? When we chose the guide, do we read both from the guide and the missionary biographies at the same time daily? And does this coincide with book basket or are those books supposed to be different? Is this done independently? Also if I am reading the Progeny Press suggestions, we've already read Anne of Green Gables and Swiss Family Robinson. Is it okay to go with other books? How long do you let them do this supplement, do they finish the book and then move on? Our DD is a very fast reader and likes to read books from start to finish.

1. An 8th grader can choose any two literature guides she is interested in. If she's already read the books, that's not a problem. If she wants to study fresh, new books, that's good, too. MFW's website has a couple of good suggestions, but they also have a link way at the bottom to all the guides at the PP site. I will say that it's helpful to know that a particular guide has been used and recommended by MFW, because each guide is a little different.
http://www.mfwbooks.com/progenypress/index.htm

If you have 2nd edition ECC, all the 8th grader's extras will be in the small grid over on the page facing the main grid. Missionary bios (Bruchko, etc.), PP guides, and grammar are all alternated nicely for you. As for reading the PP book quickly, that is the way PP recommends you do the guide -- read the whole book through and then start the guide. My ds didn't do it that way, but any method is fine.

Book basket is a separate piece. It's an opportunity to learn more about the continent (or other topics, such as science biomes). I think of it like the little "vignettes" in history textbooks, when you stop the lesson to read about a little girl who lives in the country or a craft item etc. But it can be about anything. It's just part of the geography that needs to be added but can be freely open to your child's interests. It's scheduled over on the main grid.

2. Just to understand more about the lesson plans, the places where there are darker topics {for example the title of handwriting and then there's a box} do I fill in what we are doing in the 8th grade stuff we are doing with the suggested books as supplements? Just wanted to make sure I was following this right.

2. The 2nd edition ECC grid must be what you have, because my 1st edition grid didn't have the grayed squares. My interpretation of the grayed squares is that those are to show you that you DON'T need to do anything there. In other words, if the grid weren't in a nice, tidy square, those boxes wouldn't be there at all. You'll notice that most of them are on "light and independent Fridays." When kids are younger, they may go to co-op on that day or field trips. Older kids may be catching up on their advanced work or spending more time on current events (where it says "Top Story" on the 7th-8th side).

3. Without completely diving into each of her books, I wondered what good subjects would be good for independent studies? I am going to be working from 530-1130 daily and wanted her to do stuff in the AM while I was at work.

3. Some of the things my 8th grader did on his own:
- most of the 7th-8th grade grid (research, literature guide, science)
- a lot of his math
- book basket
- copywork (handwriting is scheduled at the beginning of the year, and then memory verses)
- reading (if he wasn't already reading over on the 7-8th grade grid)
- some of the paperwork from geography (finishing maps, doing an Ecosystems worksheet)

4. Math drills. Is this really necessary? Because she is pushing forward with Singapore to get caught up, we are really doing a lot of math. She also on the side does a program from her PS days called ALEKS so my question is math drills really important?

4. Math drills can be dropped when they are mastered. That might be 2nd grade or it might be 12th. I spent some time daily on fractions review in 8th grade, but when I did this I actually chose something else he could skip.

5. Music and art. I don't mind following any and all art things because DD really loves art but is that a daily thing we do or does it have to be? Music.. She is taking private lessons as well as doing a band program on Thursday's with a group of homeschoolers. Could this be her music instead of actually setting aside time for that?

5. Music in ECC is very short -- twice a week you listen to a song on a CD by a native from the country you are studying. We spent a bit more time when we did ECC in 3rd, and learned the songs/played the games that often went with them. In 8th, it only took 2-3 minutes to listen to the song, and I often read the tidbits in the songbook because they had interesting facts. It was a cute opener to our geography for the day, or a background song while ds did something else.

Art is scheduled once a week in ECC and we didn't do it at all in 8th grade, but we had fun with it in 3rd grade and my high school dd even joined in at that time. It's there for you if you want it.

6. Read aloud's, are what books? The one's from Progeny Press or something else? I wasn't sure. Or is this the Christian Hero books? We got all of those.

6. The read-alouds are scheduled at the bottom of the main grid. Look along the left margin for the labels. Those are the 6 YWAM biographies and the Kingdom Tales. My 8th grader loves all of them, and they were nice to experience as a family.

And just a P.S., these are the things you can "cross off" your grid for your 8th grader:
- Book of animals, the 2-3rd grade book at the bottom of the main grid
- Anyplace it says "Advanced - continue the continent pages this week," because 7-8th graders already have all of those pages scheduled over in the smaller grid
- Any experiments scheduled under "science" (7-8th graders have a separate science, and they only do the science reading on the main grid as an advanced part of their geography studies)
- Some of the "reading" boxes on the main grid can be crossed out if there is already "reading" on the 7-8th grade grid (e.g. weeks 9-16). However, if you have a gal who loves to read, then you can use that box in the main grid to jot down her accomplishments in reading.

Keep asking and keep reading through the manual. You'll start to absorb it all in time. And remember we each will do things our own way.
Julie

I think those are my first questions. I hope I didn't over load you.

Elizabeth

[4Truth]

I look at the years and see this as a possibility for my kid...
Grade 2-Adv
Grade 3-ECC
Grade 4-CtoG
Grade 5-RtoR
Grade 6-Expl.to1850
Grade 7-1850toMod.
Grade 8-? What is recommended here?
Grade 9-12 MFW HS

In 8th grade you would cycle back around to ECC, only doing it more in-depth with the junior high supplement.

I can tell you, too, that there's a big difference between doing ECC with a younger child and an older one. Where you have more emphasis on crafts and fun stuff while still learning about others in the world out there, and learning how to pray for them with a younger child, your junior high Logic stage student is grasping so much more about life in general, their own life and purpose on the earth, their spiritual growth, the deeper meaning of missions and cultural differences, etc. They've also begun learning good research skills by 8th grade (which is taught indiscriminately throughout the MFW programs), which they'll use in ECC junior high, and which will help prepare them for high school level work.

You'll also want to subscribe to God's World News for current events in 8th grade. (Sooner if desired, as GWN has different levels available, but especially in junior high.)

The rest of your line-up there is perfect!

[Julie in MN]

Hi,
My oldest daughter will be finishing up 7th grade this year, and also finishing her last year of the cycle. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to do for her for 8th grade? She is very intelligent, so I don't want her to be bored. How is ECC for an 8th grader different for 2nd grader?
Thanks!
Jana

Hi Jana,
Since it sounds like you've done ECC before, just as we had, I thought I'd copy my post comparing the two years we did it. Lazy, I know, but I'd be happy to answer any further questions! I know there are others with experience, too, just not sure if many go online on weekends.

We did it in 3rd and 8th.

I would say that 3rd grade was the most fun. We took all the nature walks, sang the fun songs with the native children, read fairy tales from every country (which I had skipped when he was a preschooler), grew plants, played the geography game with gusto, and prayed together. I know there are folks floating around the internet who don't think ECC is fun for young ones, so I don't know if that raised a concern for you, but it leaves me scratching my head in amazement, since it was such a great year for us. I do know that I was teaching my youngest, and so I was probably prone to "keeping him little" rather than "rushing him ahead" in my expectations, and he was coming out of public school so it didn't feel like too much at all, since we were usually done in 4 hours with no homework.

In 8th grade, ECC was very educational but he was also doing 7-8th grade science, math, and language arts. So, we didn't have time for nature walks or growing plants; he read the older biographies on his own rather than sharing them with me (which blessed us in several ways but still... sniff sniff); he enjoyed hearing the songs but didn't sing along; and praying together went through a challenging stage. It was still a very good year with deeper understanding of "cultural differences" and "geographic locations." His mini country reports and current events were really valuable exercises. I would definitely do it again.

I think I "loved" ECC in 3rd grade and "valued" ECC in 8th, if that makes sense?
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 884#p80884

Also, I posted about some of the things we did in 8th grade on the ECC Ideas board. Here are some of my too-wordy posts, in case they help you visualize what an 8th grader can delve into:
Weeks 1-2 (intro): http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 533#p58533
Weeks 5-6 (Mexico): http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 909#p58909
Weeks 18-20 (Kenya): http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 594#p62594
Weeks 21-22 (Saudi Arabia): http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 309#p61309
Weeks 25-26 (China): http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 590#p62590

Oh, and that last one reminds me -- Properties of Ecosystems probably wasn't around when you did ECC the first time. The 7-8th graders use that book to add depth to their geography or "social studies" credit, not for science, so you don't drop this part with your 8th grader. They are doing 7-8th grade science, so they don't need the ECC experiments, but they do read about the different biomes (deserts, rainforests, etc) as part of their geography. They also have the extra country reports and such over in the 7-8th grade portion of the grid. These things are all scheduled out for you in the 2nd edition manual.

[TriciaMR]

I think ECC sounds like a good fit for us, and think it will provide a great structure while allowing some flexibility to be creative. I just wanted to make sure that it can be done for older kids and still provide a robust learning experience. I guess I just have lingering doubts about whether I will provide a challenging learning year. I have a smart girl on my hands who loves to learn, and I don't want to accidentally 'atrophy' her learning these three years. lol. I want her to return to 9th grade a more confident, eloquent, culturally sensitive, enlightened young lady... and not have lost her academic skills.

I would love to hear more about what (if anything) you added to the program, or any modifications that you felt were necessary.

My oldest is 8th this year, and we are repeating ECC. This year she has:

1. Completed all the Exploring World Geography pages. This requires research at the library, on-line, and other resources.
2. Completed 2 Progeny Press guides.
3. Written a "Country Summary Report" for each country.
4. Currently in the process of doing a longer, more detailed "Country Report" on the country of her choice.
5. Working on Saxon Algebra 1.
6. Doing Physical Science.
7. Using Essentials in Writing (for a writing program).
8. Doing Applications of Grammar for English.
9. Doing All About Spelling for spelling.
10. Read all the books in the 7th/8th grade supplement, except "Peace Child" - she said that one felt too intense for her. I'm allowing her to sub out another book.
11. Plus joined us for all the Bible, Geography, and Science (except experiments) of ECC.

My dd is also in AWANA (a lot of Bible memorization), volunteers at AWANA, and takes 4 hours of dance classes a week. (All About Spelling is a swap out for Spelling Power, and Essentials in Writing is a swap out for Writing Strands).

And, she is slightly dyslexic. The above has been plenty!

[Shlee Brown]

Thanks Tricia for outlining your daughters workload. That is VERY helpful to me in seeing the fullness of tasks. RIght now since she is in 5th in public school, I can't *see* what she's doing all day, and it makes that hard to know what is reasonable, and how much more we could be doing at home, (That's why I'm looking forward to that IG this year)

[MFW-Lucy]

So we're repeating ECC this year (6th and 8th grades). I have the first edition teacher's manual, which only says that it goes up to 6th grade. I think I've figured out most of the changes and how to make it work for us. Lesson planning is not a chore for me. I'm a former Christian school teacher and love that part.

I was wondering if I'd need the parent supplement available for Properties of Ecosystems (not through MFW), since I don't have the ECC parent manual that mentions it at all. I'm just wondering if there is information in the POE parent supplement that is essential to making the program work without an updated ECC manual.

Thanks!

Hi Sophia,

Thanks for your question. As far as POE you can purchase the Teacher's book for POE (not sold by MFW) so that you have the answers for the questions. The questions and the answers for POE were added to the ECC Teacher's Manual when the 2nd edition was released in 2009. This is just one of the many updates made to ECC.

The Parent/Teacher supplement (part of ECC) includes a geography game for a parent to play along with the kids, map masters for each family, and a Chinese Checkers game to play when we study China. Each student/player needs their own game board set. The student sheets include the colored game boards set, maps needed throughout the year, and much more to create a notebook. These pages are not the same as the 1st edition and have been updated. The current Student Sheets can be adapted to use with an older Teacher's Manual.

You may want to take a look at the ECC upgrade information on the website if you have not already, http://www.mfwbooks.com/wps/portal/c/pr ... =9#Upgrade. This will give you all the information you need to decide if you you would like to upgrade your 1st edition Teacher's Manual for the newest Teacher's Manual for less than half price. There's more to this upgrade than the answers to the POE questions, including a schedule of additional assignments for 7th/8th graders. The required supplement for 7th and 8th graders will be scheduled along with other activities described in the Teacher's Manual. You can see a sample of the current Teacher's Manual under Samples on the ECC page. There are a number of books that have been updated since the 2009 release of the 2nd edition, including a new POE book and Classroom Atlas this year. You will see a list of the books that have changed and will be needed if you decide to upgrade.

Since science this year is integrated with geography, 7th and 8th graders will complete the science readings in POE and the Apologia 8th grade science. This is the only year in the Investigate Cycle that we recommend 7th and 8th graders complete the science readings. If you have any questions please ask here or call and speak to one of our team members at 573-202-2000.

I am a teacher by trade so I understand being able to make your own plans. I found that when my 7th grader repeated this after 5 years it was much easier to have it all written out for me. There were just so many changes that it made the upgrade worth it to me.

Blessings,
Lucy

[allgrace]

Have any of you found discussion questions to talk about with the Missionary biographies in ECC? My 8th grade daughter is starting to read Bruchko this week and I haven't read it, yet. Thanks!

I read Bruchko in college and when I was learning about mfw and saw that kids read that in middle school, I was excited! Missionary stories inspire me to live more for the Kingdom of God.

I suggest you read it with your daughter. It will bless you both and be a great shared experience. You won't regret taking the time to do that!

[TriciaMR]

I just asked my daughter open ended questions like:

1) What was most inspiring?
2) Was there anything that caused you concern?
3) How did this book affect your faith?
4) How did this book help you see the need for God's word for other people?

and we discussed. I had read several of them before, so I knew what she was reading. I tried to come up with questions that could be used with any of the books.

[RachelT]

Thank you for the replies! I have ended up being able to read the book fairly quickly and I'm really enjoying it! It was good to have some other input for ideas of how to discuss a book when I don't have time to actually read it myself, too.