CTG/RTR - Experience with 7th-8th grader? (author response)

[Marie]

Has anyone used Creation to the Greeks with a Jr. High student? I am looking at this for my dd next year. I know I will need to add math, LA and science. Will I need to add additional reading/literature assignments?
Thanks in advance
Sue in CO

Author: Marie Hazell
Date: 5/31/2004

We did. :)

The program is great for 7th and 8th graders, and you don't really need to supplement to make it meatier -- other than library books.

We have a great library list for Creation to the Greeks in the teacher's manual. You can choose some of the historical fiction books listed for junior high reading. Select lots of information books for adding more depth for older kids.

We like to do literature units for 7th and 8th graders. Progeny Press has excellent language arts guides. They don't have any units that fit with ancient history so you would just pick from any of their general books. They DO have some good units for Rome to the Reformation. We did The Bronze Bow.

[kellybell]

I am wondering how some of you ladies beef up the curriculum for your older students. I currently have two seventh graders. I absolutely love our Bible / History but am not sure how to bring it all together for them so they are more challenged. At this point in time I am using MFW K 2 and CTG with 3.

Would appreciate any input!!!
Love in Jesus,
Cristy

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:43 pm
First off, ask dh what he thinks. He might have a good idea for something they should be working on. Maybe something related to CtG or maybe something unrelated such as first aid skills, car mechanics, debate, money management, a certain Bible study, a challenge to memorize a certain portion of scripture.

Then why not just ask the dc's what they think? They might have a great idea for a wonderful project (again, either CtG related or not). Maybe something they make, something they read, a letter to the editor, starting a club of some sort. "It seems that you need to be doing more with your days, what is something you really want to learn that we can help you with? Let's make some goals for you to shoot for."

If you are looking for something more textbooky, then why not assign some of the questions from Streams of Civilization? I also think Streams has a quiz book/teacher's manual.

[cbollin]

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 7:13 am
Most moms have told me they "beefed it up" not by adding higher level textbooks, but by adding in more "life skills". (And these are college bound students they are raising.) The families around here added in resources from part time jobs (dance instructors, office, working in car repair, paper routes, dog grooming training, etc.) to volunteer opportunities (community kitchens, shelters, crisis pregnancy centers) to just life skills (money management, balancing a check book and/or debit account, learning a musical instrument).

If you are wanting to add to the history sections of CtG and RtR, remember that the Streams book is a 9th-10th grade textbook.

And consider the video series from Focus on the Family, "That the World May Know." In the adult Sunday school class I attend, we've been using this series for a while and I am always referring to it when teaching at home with RtR. (and it would have been nice in Ctg, too). I'm not sure on the price -- but the vids were in our church's library.

crystal

[MJ in IL]

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:19 am

I know the Hazell's have a post [see above] about using CTG with 7th and 8th graders. I don't know if you need more LA but I know she suggests literature guides. There aren't many specifically for ancient history but they are great.

I concur with the previous responses about life skills and I love the video series That the World May Know! The teaching takes place on site. For example, they are out on a boat in the Sea of Galilee while teaching about Jesus calming the storm and telling the disciples to throw out the net again. The teaching is great and the cultural information is wonderful!

Molly

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 9:40 am

I'm wondering if you are you doing *everything* suggested in the teacher's guide for your olders? All the advanced assignments, the Apologia science, the grammar, the advanced reading lists, and so on? Marie also suggests Progeny Press, as someone has mentioned. And, I would expect much more in terms of detailed notebook pages, drawing assignments, and such from a 7th grader (compared to my 4th grader).

Once you are using the CTG guide to its fullest, then I think the life skills are a great idea. Also don't forget service. The Hazell children have unstructured time in the afternoons, in which they have set up some of their own service projects, done some real jobs for MFW (the daughter running the cash register at MACHE looked about 11 years old!), and contributed in significant ways to the chores needed in their home (even balancing the family checkbook).

And then continue to post here for more ideas. Everyone's suggestions on this thread seem just right -- adding something interesting & easy. I LOVE the videos the other ladies have mentioned! There's nothing like *seeing* the holy land to make the history come alive. (They are hard to track down via our interlibrary loan, but well worth the work.) In fact, we love all video recommendations :o)

Julie

[Sue in MN]

Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:15 pm

I agree with Julie, if you follow all of Marie's suggestions for Jr. High then your dc are getting enough. They can always help out with the housework and taking care of and teaching the younger ones too.

[cbollin]

Posted: Thu Nov 30, 2006 6:06 am
MFW seems to have some general suggestions for middle school students for other subjects.

Science -- recommend using Apologia

Language Arts --
* Add literature units from Progeny Press or Total Language Plus. They suggest choosing only two per year (less than they recommend) to allow time for formal grammar study.
* Focus on grammar instruction, using the sequence found at this link (available from My Father’s World): MFW middle school language arts
* Independent reading (library books)
* Spelling Power and Writing Strands (if needed)

Foreign Language-- recommend Rosetta Stone

Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 2:24 pm
If your son needs more ideas for an extra project here and there, there are ideas at the beginning of each chapter in Streams of Civilization. Maybe some of those ideas would be helpful for the short reports that are suggested in the intro section of the TM for older students? It's in the history notebook section in the intro.

I hope you enjoy the year with the Feasts. We're looking forward to doing those again.

-crystal

[cbollin]

Hi, Crystal!
I've been wondering about this and thought I would finally ask. :)

I know many families (like yours) started MFW before Adventures was written. You, therefore, did ECC when your oldest was a second grader. This would then be your year to repeat ECC with your children (oldest is now a seventh grader).

What will you then do next year with your eighth grader? CtG followed by high school ancients in ninth?

You're right----Next year is our year to repeat ECC. Oldest will be 7th grade. eeek!

When she is in 8th grade, Middle will be 5th grade and youngest... 1st grade maybe????

So, we will use CTG that year. I'm not all that concerned about it truthfully if she does the history in CTG in 8th and then AHL in 9th. The other option might be to consider her ready for high school in 8th grade and switch. But I'm not leaning that route right now.

It's funny that you should ask this out loud this afternoon. My oldest and I were planning a bunch of things this morning about 7th and 8th grade year. As of a few hours ago today, the tentative plan is for her 8th grader year:

In order to not overdo the history too much in CTG in 8th and then study it more in 9th, Oldest will help out more with the crafts and stuff in CTG. (more responsibility)She'll just go with the scheduled history lessons in CTG, and substitute other time in "social studies" to cover "health" or "home ec". And she'll do the Bluedorn's Logic Books (Fallacy Detective and Thinking Toolbox) in 8th grade. And enjoy book basket time. Well, that sounds like too much arleady.....maybe home ec will just have to be "cooking supper and crocheting stuff", but she already does that. :)

She'll be in her own level for science, math, finishing Writing Strands 5 and maybe 6. So, hopefully the fun activities and stuff in CTG's history/Bible/Feasts will just be extra instead of the main social studies focus especially since she'll do Ancients in 9th grade.

Thanks for asking. Hope it makes sense. maybe next year I'll know :)
-crystal

[Lucy]

I wonder about Lucy's plans for next year.

Lucy, your son will be in 8th grade and did ECC in 7th? But you're in a different situation from us because he's the youngest. Can we be nosy about your plans too? It might have a different flavor???

-crystal

Since I do not have younger kids behind him we are probably going to repeat RTR with him. But if I had younger kids who had not done it yet I would follow Crystals plan because otherwise it would mess up the cycle for them.

I really think either way it would be fine for my son but since he is the youngest and no little ones to teach,

RTR seems a better use of time for him. Although he did it in 4th I still think he will get a lot out of it this time around too. It was personally one of my favorite years!

Hope that helps you as you look ahead Tammy!

Lucy

[cbollin]

Hello,
I am just looking to find out what people add to RTR to make it more challenging for their 8th grader.
Thank you! Tracy

Tracy,
I can tell you a bit about CTG and 8th grader if that would help to tweak RTR a bit.

Bible: essentially we added church involvement and service and making sure she was getting lots of topics in life.

History: we had plans to add in some of the projects from the chapter beginnings of Streams of Civilization, as is suggested in the intro section of both CTG and RTR manuals for jr. high students. But, we ended up not adding extra history for her in CTG since she is doing AHL in 9th. Besides, we had too much to learn about living in a new city and getting to do archery and other things. So, look over the projects/papers in Streams of Civilization and do one of those per chapter.

Also, you could consider outlining chapters in SOTW if they need more to do in history notebooking.

make as much use of book basket as possible.

Let them take responsibility for any history/Bible projects in RTR and have them help set it up and clean up. They can read ahead in early weeks with some of the books (Roman Empire, and How the Bible Came to Us) and be ready to help you set up the projects quickly. Here's a quick link to what we did in week 1 or 2. We're in week 4 now?
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 400#p63400

Math - will be on level for the student. Nothing to add there
Science - 8th grader should be in 8th grade science, like apologia physical or general
Foreign Language - do that

Art: the 8th grader doesn't have to beef up God and the History of Art.
Music -- make sure they jot something down while listening about composers.

Language Arts: grammar, writing program and 2 Progeny Press Guides.

If that still isn't enough, then toss in an elective that they are interested in, or do a music class, or PE class. Make sure the 8th grader is getting to hear Augustus Caesar World. I've scaled it back with my 6th grader who just isn't ready for all of that. That will allow for some fun discussion with some topics with mom and dad. (wait until you try figuring out the whole Antony/Octavian/Cleopatra/Octavia, oh yeah... we've had some discussion over here even without reading out loud each paragraph.)

So, basically, expect a bit more on their notebook summaries. Add in those "research" projects from the chapter beginnings in Streams. Bible: be more involved in church, or service projects. Keep a journal of how the scripture affects you.

-crystal

[Lisa M]

We will also be in RtR with an 8th grade boy.

I will be doing MFW with him, except he will be in Apologia Physical Science instead of the MFW science. However, in the spring, I will have him do astronomy with us as well, because he is interested in it and he will not be taking a High School astronomy course. I don't add anything else for Bible, History, Science, Art and vocabulary - just what is in MFW.

Rosetta Stone Spanish - finishing level 2 and going into level 3.

Language arts - he will do Spelling and Grammar.

Writing, literature, and composition: we have scheduled 2 Progeny Press guides (Screwtape Letters and Carry On Mr. Bowditch), as well as 4 books that go along with the Boomerang newsletter ( http://www.bravewriter.com ). I know myself well enough that we won't keep to a strict schedule of 1 book per month, so 6 done well is plenty for me. I like both the Boomerang and the Progeny Press guides. The PP lit guides talk through plot, character development, and have thought provoking chapter-by-chapter questions about the book. Boomerang focuses on teaching about what makes great writing great, offers fantastic copywork/dictation passages, and provides thought provoking questions to write on. I like using a bit of both rather than all or nothing.

We are going to try VT Algebra (I and II). He has already completed Life of Fred Algebra, and did really well (he is a math whiz), but he doesn't know how to verbalize the equations and terminology. So I want to have him hear an instructor who is speaking the language of math. Any math program would work for my son and I might not have switched him from LOF if I wasn't going to use this for my oldest.

We'll also be adding ministry/service.

Finally, he'll play high school basketball, football, and baseball, (we live in a very tiny school district that needs its 8th graders to have enough players for high school sports) and will continue with guitar lessons.

That's a full load of stuff for him!

[purepraisemom]

Is there a reason that ECC had a 7th/8th grade supplement and the other years don't?? Just curious. I've been looking over my CtG and noticed there's no 7/8th supplement. The subjects also aren't seperatly labeled like in the ECC manual. For instance: Math, Reading, English, Geography, etc going down the left hand side of the page. Anyone know why?? It was kind of handy to have .

I'm pretty sure it's because so many of the CtG books are already at a middle school level.
Streams of Civilization is a high school text, I think. the Children's Homer and the Patricia St. John books are also good for a middle school student in content and depth. Archimedes is typically in 6th and up reading lists I've seen.

anyway, that's my guess

[jasntas]

We are in week 4 of Rome to Reformation. I need to enrich this for my 11 yo (6th grade). She is done with school so early in the morning. She is already reading about a book a day in her free time and is already helping me out with a few extra chores. She would just love a science/history project.
The catch is I need independent work for her. I'm working a bit this fall to help out around here and momma is stretched thin.

Brainstorm some ideas for this tired momma? Part of my work will be done in about 3 weeks. The other part will be tapering out through November.

For free ideas maybe she could browse the homeschoolshare.com site for a unit study or two she might want to do. There are lots of history and science subjects to choose from.

I thought about suggesting an Apologia science book as those would probably be pretty easy to complete but MFW uses three of them and you will be studying the human body and astronomy this year and animal science next year. That only leaves chemistry and physics. Not sure if that's something a 6th grader would want to do, especially on her own. But I think that the Apologia books would be pretty easy for a strong reader to complete independently and the items for experiments are usually pretty easy to find.

Oh, wait. I just realized your 6th grader will probably be doing 7th grade science next year with Apologia General Science (or whatever you choose.) She could do any or all of the Apologia Zoology books if that is an interest of hers. We did Zoo 3 a couple of years ago and we all loved it. (My kids love animal science and never seem to get enough.)

HTH

[Julie in MN]

Hi Chelle,
I like Tammie's ideas of a unit study or a science text, if she's interested in those.

To me, there are 3 ways to go:
1. Start on some of the MFW 7-8th grade recommendations, perhaps following the ECC pattern (the one year with a 7-8th grade portion of the grid).

2. Use the time to study something you won't have time for in high school, because RTR is probably a little lighter than EX1850 and 1850MOD will be, and usually the student will be doing harder science, math, and language arts during the next years. So, now is the time you could fit in home ec, shop, a manners class, and more.

3. Follow your idea of a history or science project. That seems where she might have an interest, so I'll mostly brainstorm on that, but there are archives and ideas to be had for #1 and #2, as well. Projects I'll throw out to start:

- Nature walks with a serious nature notebook, including sketches and research on formal names of plants and animals. Sketching is actually quite helpful in the upper sciences. Researching formal names helps with attention to detail. Even in winter, a favorite location can be revisited weekly, a 1-foot square can be unearthed and recorded weekly, a window view can be studied, or an indoor planting in a plastic box can be experimented with (different soils, different sun/temperature areas of your house, graphing, etc.).

- An indepth study of an area of history could be done via a nice, long report with subheadings and all. Or, just a careful notebook with pages featuring details on whatever has been studied - foods, clothing, migration, etc. I love notebooking and those pages can have various types of writing, as well as illustrations of all kinds.

- I've seen public school and homeschool history projects on display at local and state events, tailored to the student's interests -- advanced historical sewing projects, military insignia, cooking projects/skills, displays of science projects with trifold display boards and hands-on examples from pollution control to telephone communication. Maybe you have a local event she could prepare for?

- An outside competition such as National History Day projects or HSLDA writing competitions could give her some specific goals to achieve.

- For a reader (bless her heart, I love readers), it can be meaningful to keep a reading notebook, ala The Well Educated Mind or there are many other online styles. The idea isn't a "book report" to prove you've read the book, but more of an observation of the author's work. It can be a record of books read for your own use and enjoyment, as well as a process of learning to evaluate those books in different ways, which can emerge and develop over time as she grows up. Start with what did she think of the writing style, the genuineness of characters, the flow of events? What was most meaningful to her, or why would she recommend trashing the book. Have her gradually try to uncover more and more of her reasoning, with examples from the book, not just her conclusions.

- Maybe she'll find 2 books she'd like to compare, using a Venn diagram, such as The Boxcar Children and The Railway Children, or two historical novels about the same event. There are lots of versions of Aesop's or Shakespeare for kids -- why are some better, or better for certain ages? Occasionally she may want to compare a novel to a film version -- I think there are several films on the RTR book basket list?

Okay, I'll stop now &)
Julie

[HeyChelle]

Thank you Julie and Tammie. Those are wonderful ideas!

:insert rambling as I think and type:

We are in American Heritage Girls (love!) and they are currently working on the zoology badge. She loves animals. So apologia zoology mightbe the thing. I can't wait to add the zoo and zoo science classes back in - hopefully next month.

Love the book journal idea, too. She is now making her (at least)second pass through some of her favorites : EB White's, Anne of Green Gables series, Little House series, Little Princess... It would be neat for her to have a place to make notes each time through. I will take her shopping to choose a nice journal, something that can stand through some time.

Home ec... Art is probably one thing all the kids would love. Maybe I can search for an art class... I tend to leave art for when we have more time and then it slips through the cracks.

Thank you so much for the help. I feel so encouraged now! I have been beating myself up about taking on some work instead being 100% focused on homeschool.

[Julie in MN]

Following here! We are in the middle of week 7 of RTR and there really hasn't been much to the history in terms of projects, assignments, etc. It's mostly reading and narrating with a sporadic notebook page or mapwork. Maybe I'm missing something.

You know, sometimes folks forget that there are historical bits woven in with Latin roots and Art history, playing games and trying foods, and many ways students are "experiencing" the times.

However, CTG & RTR do have somewhat less "history time" than the other years. If you have a "typical" progress through MFW, your oldest is in 5th for RTR and I think it's just right, with youngers folded in. But I like to keep in mind that MFW isn't a history-only program, and that older students in RTR are generally writing more in their notebooks & Writing Strands & maybe more work on Latin roots, plus adding in Apologia Science, Saxon Math, Progeny Press and Grammar (7-8th & advanced 6th graders). The book basket ideas can also help cater to the older ones -- I recall RTR being especially good at including things that even my dh and I would benefit from, including reference books and videos.

I probably already said this, but often times it turns out nice to have that extra time to focus on the Algebra, get more serious about foreign language, do a fun elective, or beef up basic study skills or writing weaknesses. Plus some students are really struggling with focus in those middle years and a little wiggle room comes in handy.

Adding projects does seem to work for some, though, so I thought I'd link some more conversations on that:
CTG/RTR & 7/8th http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=377
RTR & keeping oldest busy http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11484
CTG similar ideas http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=7990

Julie

[Missy OH]

My oldest coming back home for 8th will be 14 this fall. I honestly think he is VERY ready for high school level content in terms of history and that RTR history will be wrong for him. The content is wonderful but SOTW2 is really suited well to the 8-12yo range. ANY thoughts on an older 8th grader who is an excellent student joining his family for history in RTR? With this student I am considering an independent history study option for him but want to explore RTR a bit first.

He will use Apologia Physical Science and he desires to use the Notebooking journal that accompanies it.The journal appears to be a way to keep most of the written work in one place. Is it compatible with MFW's Daily Lesson Plans?

Has anyone on these boards taught Writing with Skill 1 in its entirety in one school year? He MUST have this foundation. I am considering outsourcing WWS1 to the Well Trained Mind Academy to insure it is taught well but as the courses are so costly I'd love to hear ANY input from anyone who has actually sat at the elbow and taught this course.

The TM for RtoR suggests 7th/8th grade students do some of the research and report options from Streams of Civilization. I also have my junior high kids read the Streams book independently.

It will be ok if history is a bit lighter this year especially since you plan on concentrating so much on language arts. There is a suggested schedule on how to do WWS 1 in one year for an 8th grader needing that option. [See viewtopic.php?f=25&t=15108&p=102033#p102033 ]

[Poohbee]

Hi Katrina.

How exciting that you'll have all of your kids home with you again this coming school year!

I had just a couple of thoughts as I read your message.

Regarding RTR for your 8th grader: If it is your desire that he continue to have a bit of school time with the family rather than completely independent, but you also think he might want some independence, then you may want to consider getting Story of the World on CD (which MFW sells as an enrichment item) and listening to the readings each day all together as a family. My girls and I have loved listening to Jim Weiss read SOTW on CD! Truly, I learned a great deal as I listened, and it is really nice to listen to Jim Weiss read the book.

Then maybe you could let your 8th grader read from Streams of Civilization (which is actually a high school level text) on his own. That would give him a bit more independence. You could add some discussion questions and projects from Streams to deepen his history study. And, add extra books through Book Basket, too, of course. The other resources used are Usborne encyclopedias, and you could go either way with those. Your 8th grader could probably skip those. Maybe supplement with library books instead.

Just as an aside, when my oldest started 9th grade this past school year, I had it in my head that she would be completely on her own just doing her own thing independently. I just had the idea that it was what high school would be like. After having my kids learning together with MFW for all of those years, it was hard to just turn her loose to just do everything on her own. I realized as her 9th grade year progressed that I still wanted us to have some things that we could do together and still do some learning together, even though she was in high school. And, she was okay with still doing a few things together as a family rather than her being completely independent. So, with that experience, I offer the advice to try to keep your son with you for some family learning still in his 8th grade year. There is plenty of time for independence, but that family learning time is so precious, and before you know it, they're in high school and not doing much with you anymore.

Regarding Apologia Physical Science: My dd used the notebooking journal, as well. There is a schedule in the front of the notebook. The journal scheduled science 5 days a week, whereas I believe MFW scheduled it 4 days a week in their plans. That explains the difference in the amount of work required each day. However, we did not do science 5 days a week, so it took my dd longer than one school year to complete both General and Physical science, which was okay with me. We took a more leisurely pace with those two years of science and completed them in 3 years rather than 2. I would say you could use either schedule, MFW's or the notebooking journal's, and if you go with the MFW schedule, I think you will easily be able to sync up the notebooking journal to the MFW schedule. My dd really liked using the journals, and they really helped her learn to focus on what notes to take as she read. She also learned to write excellent lab reports for her experiments.

Have a blessed time planning for your new school year!

[Julie in MN]

We are finishing up LUOA 7th grade and I want to do MFW CTG for 8th for my daughter and my 3rd grade son. Can someone share with me what their 8th grade CTG daily schedule would be including MFW package, an English/Lit/Writing program, science, math and one or two other things (health, foreign language, etc)? How much one on one time is needed for each kid with the mom? My daughter did an online course for two years and last year I did my own curriculum for our son, so we were free to do what we wanted. This is our third year homeschooling, but our first with a box curriculum. My daughter works very, very slowly, but my son rushes through things, but does well with accuracy in his work most of the time. I want to do our own Grammar, math, health (once a week), and Apologia for 8th grade science. I feel overwhelmed already!

How can we make it less than an 8 hour school day and still get everything in? How long should an 8th grade school day last? Thanks!

The time frame in the Teacher's Manual is 8 to noon, with read-alouds, art or music, and foreign language sometimes saved for afternoons, and 7-8th graders needing more time for science, math, and language arts.

When my son was in 8th, we followed public "school hours" - we started at a firm time (around 9:00) and ended when the local kids got home from school (around 3:00). It helped that we had things ready to go in the morning, and we didn't take a lot of breaks (usually listening to something even during lunch), but we also took one day off a week for other things. I just had one student, but I also often had a toddler in the house as well as medical issues in the family, so we really had to dedicate certain hours to school and get it done.

With MFW, I think it helps that you do a lot of things together. That keeps everyone moving forward most of the time - as long as you don't get sidetracked together just as much as your student would on his own Family time will be about 2.5 hours, which includes the 3rd grader's science.

Science, math, and language arts can be pretty independent in 8th grade, with the exception of corrections and feedback on writing. It can help to start the 8th grader a week early and model with him how to complete those subjects on his own.

CTG is not a heavy year for an 8th grader, but if you want to lighten the day, you can do the Old Testament in the evenings as a family. My family has great memories of doing CTG Bible together. Many families also do the read-aloud at bedtime or lunchtime. I encourage you to take advantage of this last year before high school and be sure to create some memories together!

There a few schedules posted in the CTG Archives: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4082
Julie