Books - Augustus Caesar's World reviews, ideas ifchallenging

[MJP]

For those of you RTR veterans...Did you find this book to be a particularly long reading session each day? We also just started the "Bronze Arrow" read aloud, and I feel like I spent way too much time reading aloud with the kids today. I have a 4th and 6th grader, and a lot of this reading seems to be over their heads.

I read Bronze Bow at lunch and then ACW after chores. I usually let them work on a notebook page as I read ACW--enlarging and copying the ones from ACW that are suggested in the R to R teacher's manual has worked very well. Even my 6 year old is into these. These pages also let them overview how everyone is connected. I have a 7th, 5th, 3rd and K listening in on this. The 4 year old starts out with us...but.....

It is a lot of reading. However, we have learned a lot from this book. There are, however, parts you could skip or skim over as others have mentioned. I am not very good at that. I just stop now and then and have them summarize or ask a few questions to make sure everyone is paying attention. I have also stretched the reading over 5 days even if it was listed for four. Bronze Bow is a bigger hit--no one wants to miss that one at our house.

[LSH in MS]

We just finished week 4. The boys color or play with legos while I read. Thankfully my oldest is fascinated with the subject of Rome. They don't retain everything they hear but they don't seem to mind it.

I personally have learned a lot from the book and have enjoyed discussing it with them. After we read one time, my 8 yo said he didn't understand anything so I just told him the story in my own words. You could just read it yourself and "narrate" it to them.

We have enjoyed other books and videos that helped them keep the facts straight and understand the culture a little better. It helps to hear the same story from different sources.

Some of these include

Cleopatra by Diane Stanley (we loved this one)
CD Jim Weiss Jewish Stories Hanukkah Purim and Passover
(great review of CTG)
DVD Roman Cily by MAcaulay
DVD THe Robe (we had a beautiful discussion after this one about what it means to die for Jesus)

Also be encouraged, from what I can tell this book is only used for the first part of the year , then it's SOTW and other books that I think will be easier. WE already have SOTW cds and they love them.

[Lisa B]

I am reading ACW to my 4th grade twins and a 7th grader, and I must say: they love this book!

It helps that they have photocopies of the pictures in the book to color as they listen--they look forward to listening to new characters as they are introduced and then coloring them; it keeps them attentive. The twisted dramas of the whole Roman Empire culture is intriguinging and at times amusing, and we have had some interesting disussions about it.

We read ACW in the morning, and the Bronze Bow in the evening before bed. That way the reading periods are spaced out some. We loved the BB! The children always begged for "one more chapter" each time we read, and we finished it early. It's a great book, so perservere!

[Julie in MN]

Thank you for the encouragement. It helps to know I am not alone. We too are doing photocopied coloring pages from the book.

I just don't know why MFW has picked such difficult books for this age. (Thinking of Streams of Civilization here too.) I really do not want to summarize everything...

I really have only one block of time (during toddler's nap time) to do our reading aloud.

This kind of has me a little confused, actually, because isn't part of Charlotte Mason's philosophy to keep the lessons short as to teach the habit of attention?

OK...whew...thanks for listening.

Nancy,
You are in a difficult situation with only one period in your day where you can read aloud. Others have suggested bedtime reading, but apparently that is out of the question? I can imagine that with only one period of time for reading aloud each day, your kids can get overloaded. Especially during the times you are using literature that is a "step up" in depth.

Charlotte Mason I believe would hope you could scatter your reading more throughout the morning, but by 6th grade I don't think she would look at Foster books as too difficult. The two Foster books that MFW uses are her easiest, geared for grades 4-8. And I suppose the pace they are assigned is due to the fact that we don't want to study Rome all year!

However, I would NOT expect a 4-8th grader to remember all the historical details. As you said, those details are more interesting to us adults. And that is actually not un-important, since we are our children's only teacher and we may not have a history background.

For your kids, it might help to look at it as more of a foundation -- learning to recognize key characters and general themes. Learning some general ideas about how history isn't as simple as they might have thought. Becoming completely familiar with one historical figure - following him from a young man to an old man, when we look at great historical figures as 2-dimensional caricatures. Some kids will be more interested in, say, the fashion, and others maybe the battles. By high school then, your kids will have much to build on. That's how I would look at it.

I imagine the incentives for choosing these books included the fact that one book covers many parts of the world, which can be hard to find, and that it is part of a "living books" approach. To me, the MFW approach is somewhere in between a literature-based history, where sometimes my kids liked the story but caught nothing about the historical context, and a textbook style program, where I would use a single source for history the whole year to learn a set series of info bites. And I find there is variety in the depth of MFW choices, with several selections being enjoyably easy, while at least one selection each year seems to bring us a little step up in language (at least for my oh-too-modern kids). This makes it very adaptable to a variety of ages and abilities.

And although I am sure it would be easier not to summarize or skip things, I do think that given your limited reading situation, it might do the trick on occasion. Especially on some of the longer chapters. You can just announce, "Okay, we've been reading a lot today! I see eyes glazing over! Anyone know what I just read about? How about if I just read the topic sentence for each paragraph in the rest of this chapter, and you can stop me if you want to know more!"

After you're done, you can always keep it on your bookshelf & bring it out when a related topic comes up. Or place it in your book basket, where your older kids can go back & look something up as they have an interest.

Hoping to help, Julie

[kellybell]

Good reply, Julie.

We're currently reading ACW and I allow the kids to do something "mindless" as I read. They can work with geomags (my favorite "mindless" thing) or doodle. And, I copied the coloring pages from ACW.

As for Bronze Bow, I was going to just wait and read it later (summer) but found it as a book on CD at the library (5 or 6 disks! It's long) and decided we'd just listen to it in the car as we go through town.

Perhaps you could save some of the read-alouds to be summer reading or if you can find them on CD or casette, listen to them in the car as you run errands or (better yet) drive to Grandma's for Thanksgiving.

It IS a lot of reading, but I can see my kids benefiting from the understanding they acquire as we read and talk.

HTH

[LSH in MS]

WE have used the SOTW 1 CDs to get the basic story down which helps keep them interested in ACW. Also I have assigned them some of the book basket suggestions for their independant reading that are enjoyable. They liked Triumph for Flavius and are really enjoying reading Detectives in Togas. These are probably too easy for your 6th grader but maybe there are other suggestions on the list that he might like in the Historical Fiction section. THis has provided a good balance of enjoyable reading vs reading for historical information. And it gives me a break because they are reading some on their own.

Another thought came to me. Would it help if you took turns with your 6th grader in reading ACW aloud? I know sometimes that helps my dc pay attention more if they are reading aloud and also helps break it up for you.

HTH,

[Jill S]

Kids are so different...mine love both books and beg for more. Their only disappointment in ACW is when it strays from Rome and the Caesars. They usually end up finding it interesting, though.

In just a few minutes, I was planning on settling them all down in my room (I let some of them bounce on big exercise balls) and finishing the last four chapters of The Bronze Bow, just 'cause! Last week, I sat them down for a chapter or two of ACW, two chapters of TBB, then we read a couple of chapters of a Hank the Cowdog book. I compared it to a meal...ACW is the salad, full of lots of good stuff but maybe not our fave thing to eat, TBB is the main dish, both good and nutritious, and Hank is, well, the dessert, at least in our family--it's just so enjoyable but lots of empty calories!

[No, Hank the Cowdog has nothing to do with MFW, although I often pull out my Hank voice while reading Streams of Civilization when I notice they're starting to fidget. When my kids are grown, though, I guarantee the times they'll remember are reading Hank (and watching mommy laugh her head off) and the missionary biographies from ECC (and watching mommy cry when the missionaries die).]

My biggest problem is my voice giving out, but maybe I'm reading more than most people! I may have to look into TSOW on tape.

[mamaofredheads]

Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:48 pm
I preread many of the stories and only share with the boys what I want them to know.

However, as someone else mentioned, if you can stick with it, many of the stories are worth reading because they give you an understanding of these important historical figures and help you more clearly understand how they fit in with the Bible and life during Jesus time on the earth, etc. I too sometimes struggle to balance being sensitive to protect their spirits & hearts, yet at the same time give them a good grasp of history.

May God give you wisdom in how to handle this with your precious kiddos. :)

[4Truth]

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2007 9:03 am
Be encouraged; as you go through the TM, you will find notes by the author as to content and some sections that you may want to pre-read or skip altogether. Just make sure you're reading the author's notes and not just following the schedule in the grid, because those notes will give you the heads-up you need.

Another thing we do with this book is that *I* do all the reading aloud so that I can skip the parts I feel necessary. Sometimes there's just one line that pops up in context, especially when dealing with Antony and Cleopatra, that I personally feel is a little too "explanatory." Thus, I do the reading aloud so that I scan ahead and skip here and there.

Unfortunately, there are some tough subjects to deal with during this time period, and I don't know how to get away from it completely without losing that full understanding of what was going on in the world, how Herod came to power, etc. Keep in the back of your mind as you're going through this that God sets up kingdoms and causes them to fall. You really do see this while reading through ACW. Christ came "in the fullness of time", and the history of Rome was a big part of it. (Eventually, you'll also get a good understanding of the Apostle Paul's background, which enabled him to be "the man" that God chose to write so much of the New Testament.)

And lastly, but most importantly, I have *repeated* certain scriptures to the girls throughout this study, as a constant reminder to all of us: Deut. 12:30 and Isaiah 45:22. The author will mention more in the TM, as well.

Posted by 4Truth » Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:54 pm
We liked ACW, too. We did get bored with parts of it at the time we were doing it, but we continued to plug away and got soooo much out of it! It really gave us a clear picture of how so many of our traditions, holidays, lifestyles, architecture, etc. came to be here in America, and it also helped us to understand Scripture teaching so much better. We have two pastors who alternate preaching/teaching, and one is going through the book of Matthew while the other is going through Acts. They're expository preachers, so between that (going slowly verse by verse) and taking turns, it's taken them a LONG time to get through those books. They started while we were still doing RTR at home, and my girls get giggly as they hear so much of the same teaching that we got from our curriculum at home, both in history and Bible. They actually know what the pastors are talking about! They know the names of the characters, the places, events... Just this morning our pastor referred to Romans 12 and spoke from there quite a bit... Well, that's one of the passages memorized in RTR, so again, my girls were thrilled to have the reminder.

Oh btw, Matthew is read through in ECC, not RTR. But since we learned about the birth, death and resurrection of Christ in RTR (because that took place at the same time as ACW), those connections were made between secular history and biblical teaching.

The only thing I will say about ACW is that *I* did the reading aloud in order to screen for objectionable content. There's not a LOT of it, but there is some simply by virtue of the time period (Cleopatra was NOT a nice woman, you know.) I think that's what makes ACW so hard for a lot of people... it was just a hard time period because of the magnitude of their worship of false gods, and the founding, growing, and ultimate fall of the power of Rome... and also how that impacted the Jews and the early church... there were SO many people involved. It covers a time span of what, 500-600 years? So a LOT happened. Yes, it can get heavy. But Marie does a wonderful job of giving us a heads-up in the TM to help us "censor" the material. I appreciate that. It saves me having to pre-read everything.

With my little gal, when we were doing ACW, she really didn't hang around much. Too boring for her. LOL. It didn't matter. She wouldn't have understood it anyway. But Marie instructs in the TM to copy several two-page spreads out of ACW to use for coloring pages, and that helped my older girls quite a bit in keeping track of who's who. My little gal colored those pages, too.... it gave her something to do while we worked. Every year that we've done MFW, I've allowed my little one to have her own smaller (1-inch) 3-ring binder to insert her pages, too. But I pretty much let her do as much or as little as she has patience for. She'll get it all again later.

Sorry, I guess we didn't answer a particular question... You do read *most* of the book. Marie has you skip some parts either because of inappropriate content, or because it simply isn't accurate. For example, when the author retells some bits about the Old Testament Law, her perspective in the retelling is that much of religion is "just another god".

Genevieve Foster is a wonderful author and I love how she's put together the whole picture from a historical perspective. But it isn't Christian, and that's where Marie's teacher notes come in.

[Suzq]

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:51 pm
My kids are 12 and 9 and find it difficult to do narrations for this book, so we are just kind of talking about it as we go along. Just trying to get some of the names and what was going on right before and at the time of Jesus' birth. They do not totally comprehend it but I think they are getting to know the people of that day.

Another option would be for you to read it alone and then retell it to them?

[cbollin]

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:09 pm
It was the same story here for us when my 10 y.o. did RTR. We hit the road bump in those few weeks and I wondered how we were going to get over it. But we did because it didn't last long.

I think it was just hard to deal with the history part of Roman Empire. So we essentially de-emphasized that part of the lessons and emphasized everything else --- book basket for science, read alouds, Bible lessons, hands on stuff, etc. It was just a few short weeks in RTR that felt really dry and hard in history. Then when it was past, it was over.

I did a lot of pre-reading of ACW and just summarized it for my kid just like Suzq said. It really gave me lots of background and then I filtered it down for daughter. It became more of a teach from tool instead of a read from tool if that makes sense. I'd grab the markers for the white board and teach a few things from that book and focus my reading time on read alouds and the other books.

We liked Streams. Sometimes I just taught from Streams instead of reading from it. We understood the captions and boxes of text and enjoyed pictures too.

At first I was nervous about using G. Foster's George Washington's World, but it was much easier to understand than ACW. But with ACW, I was so unfamiliar with the material that I was trying to learn it with my daughter. I wonder if that plays into it as well?

With ACW we ended up making copies of some of the picture pages. Some of the "info at a glance" pages (60-61, 2-3) were helpful to discuss before reading and to just leave on the wall in the school room for a few weeks. We were always referring to the picture of the family tree of the emperor's. It really became a time of pointing to someone and saying "this person did this and that". Or "this guy is the emperor at the time of this part of the Bible". We might have used some of the pages as coloring pages or to doodle on.

Anyway... it really did get better. It's a lot like having to drive a long boring road trip. Sometimes you're glad if the boring landscape goes past at 65 mph. We liked the read alouds for the time frame. We had fun with science. We added in a few library videos that just showed Roman buildings and such. I took the approach that since it was just a few weeks to go before we were past it that I de-emphasized the history parts and emphasized the other parts.

Just how it went over here.
-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:37 pm
Have you gotten past the "Roman wars" part of the book yet? Whew, the "January February March" chapter (that's what I call it, anyways) really wore us out, too! I just skimmed through the battles. Although, another mom said that was her dc's favorite!

In the end, tho, I think my ds really learned about the history of a powerful world leader -- such a man doesn't start out great, he doesn't always make good decisions, and in the end he is just a man. If you do stick with it, just don't expect an adult comprehension, but do use it as an opportunity to discuss things with your child that might not otherwise come up in their young minds.

As Crystal mentioned, Rome was not our favorite & skipping thru history at a brisk pace was an option we chose for a few weeks, as well :o)
Julie

[Tricia Croke]

Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 11:59 pm
We are having a different experience-I am reading ACW to my 7th grader, 6th grader, 4th grader and my 1st grader listens in here and there--and we love this book!

I make photocopies of the pictures in the book to color as they listen and that helps them to follow along with the many characters. I recap the previous days chapter(s) to make sure everyone is still understanding (including me). I will stop and re-read anything that one of our dc or I myself didn't understand and retell-if neccassary- in my own words. And as suggested we skip any of the questionable chapters.

We read ACW in the morning, and sometimes save the Bronze Bow reading for the evening before bed. That way it's not sooooo much listening for the kids or too much reading for me.

I think our dc have caught my excitement about this time period (I don't remember learning about ancient anything so this is all new to me) so I'm learning right along with them.

As for Streams of Civil--we read all the recommended reading and although it's not the most exciting book its usually quick and painless with the facts and it helps reinforce the other reading.

HTH

[dhudson]

I think it's so interesting how different families see the same thing. We loved Rome and loved Augustus Ceasar's World. Of course it helps that Dad is a huge fan of Rome! We have some Roman soldiers and the kids played with them while I read and that was fun. We also really enjoyed seeing how far into the world the Romans made it.

One thing that was really fun and educational was watching the Drive Thru History of Rome. That was a fun way to get the little ones interested but it's funny and really pulls what was happening in the Bible.

[Michele in WA]

Um.. don't tell anyone, but I gave up on that book. Tried as I could, I just did not like it. I focused a LOT more on library books for that time period, and my ds really enjoyed those so much more. Once I realized there is more to the curriculum than one book, we were able to take off and complete the program much happier. It is your homeschool, do what you feel is the best for your family to learn.

Blessings,
Michele

[kellybell]

I'm sure that Bronze Bow will be a hit. What a beautiful book.

If you decide to gut it out with ACW, then consider adding a few visuals to it. Make some paper dolls and have the kids listen for their character(s) and sort of act it out.

Before we found MFW, my youngest was 2 years old and we had a bunch of those Fisher Price Little People around. My kids were having a hard time keeping the characters [in Lewis & Clark] straight (and this is an EASY story) so I got about six or eight of the Little People and taped on little names. We had Lewis, Clark, Sacajawea, York, the dog, Jefferson, that French dude, and a few others (sorry, I can't remember the names). We also got out the blue, yellow, and red Fisher Price toy boat and as we read the book, we acted it out with the Little People.

You could do similar by using Little People, Barbies, Little Petshops, Webkinz, paper dolls (make your own via Internet pictures), etc. It will take longer to get through a story, but it should cause some giggles and something about DOING the story makes it stick.

A similar idea would be to assign each child a few names or places to listen for. They could count how many times they heard Antony. Or they could say "DING" each time they heard Marcus. Or they could stand up and turn around for each Cleopatra.

Try narration too. Every now and then stop and ask the most bored looking child to repeat the story. Then ask other kids if he got it right.

You can also pick one little subplot and act it out. We did this with the Bible story of Esther. By this time the baby was 3 or 4 years old and very defiant (still is, but that's another post). So, she was Queen Vashti and her only line in the play was "NO!" The role fit her perfectly. I would've forgotten that the first queen's name was Vashti by now except for the play. Also the kids had fun joking around. When it was time to produce a noose, they produced a MOOSE (a stuffed Bullwinkle from my jr. high days). Ha ha. Anyway, you wouldn't want to do the entire book, but you could act out one scene and that will be the scene you remember years from now.

Just some ideas. They can be used for any story (Bible or not). It IS a tough book.

[kellybell]

Reading in RTR just not interesting my 9yo dd. She would just rather I read a book with big pictures and not so many words. She just sits on the couch while 12yo dd and I get absorbed in it all. I want her to be getting something here...what would you do?

If you are talking about book basket in general, then you go and find the books with few words and great pictures. That's fine. You know, there are history subjects that leave me cold too and sometimes it takes a well-written picture book to get me interested in the subject.

IMO, it's better to have a below-grade-level picture book that leaves an impression than a "more appropriate" chapter book that is either despised or quickly forgotten.

Go for the picture books then for you younger one.

[cbollin]

I'm talking about August Caesar's World and The Bronze Bow...any type of long chapter book.

ACW is a tough book, isn't it?

How about making some coloring sheets for her to fill in while you are reading? Pages such as the ones right before the Parts work well. That would be things like p. 2-3, 60-61, 130-131, 196-197, 274-275 and stuff like that. Then the 9 y.o can at least see the names of the people involved in roman history and you and oldest can move along and enjoy it all from the book. The 9 y.o will then have a nice notebooking page and a reference point for when listening to you and oldest talk about it.

It really is ok if the 9 y.o doesn't learn all of the Roman history stuff right now. Focus on the Bible and the science and let her glance through book basket pictures to see the sights. (and I'm saying that as someone whose oldest did RTR in 4th grade at that age.)

I know we've struggled with long chapter read alouds from deluxe with our 2nd child. We had to actually change our approach on it. Oldest (7th grader) gets to read ahead and finish the book. That way she isn't waiting on younger kid. Then when it is time to read out loud, we go a bit more slowly through the read aloud and let oldest help 9 y.o get excited about what is going to be happening. And we have to review and talk out loud. Our 9 y.o doesn't have the best comprehension skills in language when hearing a book that is above her reading level. So, we make sure she is understanding the story line. It's been hardest on my dh because he is just starting to realize that he talks so fast and reads too fast that she can't follow along without the help. He's been so busy reading the words on the page that he forgets he is telling a story to the kids.

anyway, that's how it works over here with the read alouds.

-crystal

[dhudson]

I have my younger ones draw and color a picture about the book we are reading. My little girl really gets into this and illustrates many scenes from the books we are reading and then we put them in her notebook. She may not have many narrations but she remembers what we've read because of the pictures she's drawn.

[cbollin]

We've been doing that, but it doesn't interest her in the book.

Would she like to play dress up and act out some of the scenes??? (or just play dress up and play her own Roman scene while looking at science books in book basket?)

-crystal

[TammyB]

Tracy,

I've been thinking about your little girl and am praying that you are able to find a solution.

I wonder if her interest in history would be piqued if she were able to read picture books and easy readers on topics of her own choice? Perhaps you two could take a special trip to the library where you let her (with the help of the librarian) find things that look good to her.

That would be a bit of an unschooling approach, but I would rather do that than see a child bored with history. :)

Praying you find an answer,
Tammy

[HSmommi2mine]

I let my second grader sit out most of ACW. I summarized it for her. Once you get to SOTW, it will be much better. Dd loves SOTW but she did not like ACW. She liked the Usborne books though and some that we got from the library. I figure she will get it all again when that book is a better fit for her. Novels we have to read more quickly than scheduled or I lose her.

[Julie in MN]

We have started RTR and love it. I am finding that the history reading from ACW is quite a bit each day. We need to work through the material slowly and it takes energy to comprehend. In other words, it is good information, but not an easy read. Therefore, I have been only reading one of the assigned readings per day but at this rate we are going to be a long time getting through. Has anyone else had this issue or is it just me? How did you handle it?

I haven't been around for a while and decided I wanted to pop back in and see what the forums were saying!!
Connie

Connie,
This book is an adjustment for *most* folks, I think. I'd say most books (at least the in-depth ones) take a chapter or two to get "into" them, but ACW takes a bit longer. The best thing I can tell you is that after several chapters, it all comes together & the story becomes a good one, with lots of learning.

Here are some previous threads with ideas of getting through that initial stage with the book. I think I have a post in there where I mentioned that learning and retaining all of the exact details wasn't as important as some of the other learning we got out of it...
[above]

Julie

[cbollin]

This book is an adjustment for *most* folks, I think. I'd say most books (at least the in-depth ones) take a chapter or two to get "into" them, but ACW takes a bit longer.

Connie,

echoing Julie's words there. That was the case for me when I did RTR many years ago. it was my first "huh?" block in using MFW. In fact, it was the reason I went looking to find this message board to see what others did. well, at that time... I was ahead of the program in other posters... hmmm.

anyway... I think I remember it helped me to copy the pages at the chapter beginnings and use them as wall reference sheet and/or coloring sheets. Then it became a way to point to this person. And I retold some of it. I remember thinking: do I even need to know some of this? so, we took it for the few minutes that it was each day.... then all of a sudden the book clicked. so I guess the early chapters were just longer and harder.

-crystal

[4Truth]

Agreeing with Julie and Crystal. I think that with ACW, it's important to pay attention to Marie's notes as you go along, as she gives scripture references and parent alerts where needed. She also has you skip a few places in the book, so you're not just reading it cover to cover. Watch for those.

Photocopying the 2-page "family tree" spreads out of the book was helpful for us, too. My girls would color them at different times as I read, or just as a way to review. It was a good way for them to really get to "know" the characters and remember who belonged to whom.

Hang in there. You'll be amazed at how much your kids remember by the time you get to the end of it!