Writing - How to cut back

[Winkie]

My son Caleb recently started the 1st grade program. He can do the reading, but his motor skills for writing are pretty slow.

MFW1 from what I can tell has a lot of writing;
1. work sheet (blue book)
2. writing (green book)
3. Writing a Proverbs every week
4. the Notebook

I know I can omit things, but at the same time I know he needs the practice. Because the other two kiddos did write well, I didn't have to make these choices ;) what do you all suggest I do? Caleb turned 6 in Sept.

My ds was pretty good at writing before we started 1st (though he prefers to write in capitals rather than lowercase) but he still balked a bit in the beginning. After a little while he adjusted to it.

We still split up the Proverbs verse over the week though. He usually copies 2 lines per day over 3-4 days.

See what you can do orally with your ds. You can also do some things as "fill in the blank", where you write every other word or so & he fills in the missing parts.

[cbollin]

A few more ideas:

Spread out the proverbs writing over the week. If needed, do a new one every other week for handwriting until it gets easier.

The notebook starts off with just one sentence (and it can be copy work if needed). that begins around day 38 or 40 (or thereabouts)

The green sheets will eventually become just proverbs handwriting sheets. so that part will kinda take care of itself. Some of the early pages are also cut and paste instead of writing.

For the blue book in the early going --- try using some kind of letter manipulative (fridge magnets, or rubber letters or something) and have him trace the letters with his finger. if needed -- cut back the number of words that are dictated and slowly build as you go. These activities will adjust as you go. try letting him trace the letter formations with just his finger on the paper as you watch for some of the writing.

Ideas to build up fine motor strength --- use scissors, playdough, lacing toys, play with writing at a chalk board or dry erase board, use shaving cream on a mirror to practice letter formation. Use small (short) pencils -- helps with grip.


Maybe some of that will help along the way

--crystal

[cbollin]

Do you have any ideas for the last month of 1st??? Also--my dd broke her arm (the one she writes with) so that has added to the problem.

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:00 am

How about grabbing stuffed animals and letting her have them help her act the story for you? If you have a digital camera that takes movies, it can be a keepsake.

-crystal

[Poohbee]

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 12:57 pm

Hey, Irmi!

We read the New Testament stories in the Bible reader every day, as they are scheduled, but we do not do the Bible Notebook every day. Instead, we do the Bible Notebook two days a week (usually Tuesday and Thursday).

Then my dd just writes for fun the other three days. My dd loves to draw and make up stories. Her writing does not keep up with her imagination, but I am just glad to have her writing on her own. So, we used Marie's suggestion in the TM (the introduction to the New Testament section), in which she suggests letting your child write his or her own stories. My dd composes her own story on Monday and Wednesday, and then we use Friday for editing and revising. I don't make her rewrite at this stage, because that would really discourage my dd, but we look for a few spelling errors and correct them by erasing and rewriting that word. It works well for us. My dd really enjoyed writing her own story. Maybe that's just the bit of variety you need.

On the days we do Bible Notebook, we just do the summary and picture for the story we read that particular day. We do not do a Bible Notebook page for each story. Some of the stories are more interesting to summarize and illustrate than others. For example, this week I rearranged the schedule a bit so that we would do Bible Notebook on Thursday and Friday instead of on Tuesday and Thursday. I thought my dd might find it more interesting to summarize and illustrate the story of Jesus calming the storm (and the story that follows it...can't remember what it is right now), than she would the story (or listing) of the twelve apostles, which we read today. It's okay with me if we don't have a summary and illustration for every story. For my dd, at the stage she's at, it would just be too much for her to do the Bible Notebook every day. She needs a bit more variety, and she likes to be able to be creative and compose her own stories. So, that's where that creative writing is a good thing for her.

Also, my dd still only writes a one-sentence summary in her Bible Notebook. It's like pulling teeth to get her to write more. She narrates very well, and she composes beautiful, full summaries when she can do it orally, but when it comes to writing it, she wants to make it as short as possible. Recently, she and I have partnered to write the summary. She composes a sentence and I compose a sentence, and then we put the two together to make the summary. Part of the challenge of that is that we each need to compose sentences that will fit and flow well together. That is my way of trying to get her to write a bit more. She complains that she doesn't want it to be too long or too much for her to copy. Well, I'm choosing my battles and am not fighting her on it at this point. I'll just keep working with her to get her to write longer summaries, but I do not want to turn her off to writing. So, I just keep praising her and encouraging her for the writing that she does, especially when she really tries hard and writes things on her own, spelling words the way they sound to her, and when she composes an appropriate summary for the story we read, even though it is only one or two sentences long. :-)

As far as the broken arm goes, Crystal's idea is a good one to have her act out stories. She could do that with her own stories, as well. Perhaps work with her on how she composes her story...making sure it has a beginning, middle, and end and all flows well together...since she can't work on writing right now.

[705emily]

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:42 pm

It's so good to get feedback! Thanks for your ideas. I think she will enjoy the "acting" out the story. She had been flying with the Bible Notebook and then the arm thing happened--which has put a damper on things as far as school goes.

But it's good in other ways. She had asked me some time ago how Joni Eareckson paints with her mouth--now she a bit more understanding of what it's like to go without a limb!

I have had her summarizing for me--and it's worked where I write down her summary. I have also been letting her make up her own stories (not on a regular basis--maybe once a month)and I would type them on the computer as she dictated them--but its a good idea to go over those stories and see how we could improve them.

Anyway! Thanks for your input!
Irmi

[RachelT]

Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 9:55 pm

I have partnered with my ds for these Bible notebook pages and we have done fine with the summarizing. However, I need to try the creative writing to help him see writing differently. Bret asked me at the convention if he doesn't want to do them because he wants them to be perfect... (another hangup?) So, maybe a totally blank piece of paper outside of the notebook and a topic of my ds's choice would be better. I also need him to understand that he is capable of writing and help him to feel encouraged about it; that it isn't like the handwriting pages where it has to be just like the model.

Also, my dd still only writes a one-sentence summary in her Bible Notebook. It's like pulling teeth to get her to write more. She narrates very well, and she composes beautiful, full summaries when she can do it orally, but when it comes to writing it, she wants to make it as short as possible.

That is exactly what I am talking about! Maybe getting him to write about his stuffed animals or penguins (his favorite animal) would be a nice change. Thanks for the ideas!
Rachel

Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 10:21 pm

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I tried something different today with the Bible notebook. We already had a field trip scheduled for the morning, so I knew we wouldn't accomplish a whole lot in the afternoon. So, instead of having my ds do both notebook pages for the stories where Jesus died and arose, I just let him choose one. He chose Easter (because Good Friday was too sad).

Then, I had him make the felt board picture of the story (we already have the Beginner's Bible felt board characters) and we took a digital photo of it. We printed it out and that was the picture part. Then, for the summary, he dictated it to me and I wrote it on a dry erase board. Then, I wrote the first half of it in his notebook and had him copy the rest. It took time and he kept trying to get out of it, but he finally did it when I sat with him and held the small dry erase board sentence in front of him, just above his notebook paper. This seemed to work better because he didn't have as far to look for the words he was to copy. That's a step toward writing his thoughts down on his own!

I feel like such a dork because we have all of these great felt board characters and we should have been doing this months ago with the old testament stories, but I did not think of it. (Thanks Crystal! I thought of it when you suggested to Irmi to have her dd act out the story with stuffed animals).

And thanks to Jen for giving me permission to not feel like we have to do every single story in our notebook now.
Rachel

[niki]

My oldest ds does not like to draw or write. He does love the bible and never wants me to stop when we're reading, and loves that he can read the bible himself too! We always read the bible story in the bible after we read it in the TM--this is how he wants to do it!

Anyway, on to my question! Does he need to do all of the writing in 1st?
I just let him know Thursday that he does not have to do the illustrating and I am thinking about not having him do the summaries(as he makes it so much shorter than he would if he wasn't writing it out-- simply because he does not want to write that much, I hope this makes sense?)

He will be 8 in October, we will be finished with 1st in September/October and then go right into Adv. I wonder if it is not a good thing to have him do less writing now as there will be more in Adv. Any ideas? questions & comments are welcome!
Debbie

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 4:04 pm

I would often let my kids dictate when they were that age. So I'd write what they said, then other times I'd have them copy from their own dictation. I'd do that most of the year and getting towards the end I'd add in they would sometimes write on their own.

Also, I have a son who doesn't care to draw. I know that when I drew with him that helped. Stickers, magazine pictures helped and getting creative with colored paper and other items from the craft box really helped. (I know there are some good threads on creative ideas for Bible Notebook) [ http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=2299 ]

You are correct that there is more writing in ADV. I felt it was about the same as in 1st except I made them do their own writing early in the year for ADV.

[Cyndi (AZ)]

Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2008 11:23 pm

This is just what worked for us -- I had my dd narrate, which was always too much for her to write down, IMO. Then I would let her color or whatever she wanted while I either wrote neatly on lined paper or made a computer print out of what she said.

Then I would show her how to summarize her "summary" into two or three sentences that she could copy (or toward the end of the year, write down from dictation). It helped her to see how to summarize, and it made her realize that she was only required to write a little bit. I don't know if that idea helps, but be assured that many of us tweaked the writing assignments in MFW1 to fit our dc.

[Poohbee]

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 9:43 am

As we got toward the end of the year in MFW 1st, the schedule changed to do Bible Notebook every day. Like your son, my dd did not want to do the summaries most days. However, I did want her to continue to develop her writing skills. So, instead of making her do a summary every day, we only did it 2 days a week. We still read a Bible story every day, as scheduled, and she had to narrate the story for me, but she only had to do her Bible Notebook 2 days a week. I let her choose from any of the stories that we had read that week or in previous weeks that she had not summarized and illustrated yet. It was a good compromise for us. She still completed her summaries and developed her writing skills, but she didn't have to do it every single day. Maybe you could consider something like that with your ds. Part of the issue with my dd, too, was that she needed to learn that sometimes we have to do things we don't always like to do. It really helped my dd that I allowed her to choose which story she wanted to summarize and illustrate.

Also, my dd did not write longer summaries by the end of 1st grade, as it said they should in the TM. Her summaries were still only 1 or 2 short sentences. I didn't push that with her. I tried to meet her where she was at, and now, this summer, she has been writing like crazy. She will write stories several pages long. I'll be interested to see how she does when we start our history notebook in Adv.

[mgardenh]

Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2008 2:13 pm

Have you tried setting a timer. Say have for ten minutes five minutes or whatever time you think. Tell him I want you to write a summary of the story and then your done but you have to work hard during this time (give him a small reward if needed like 5 more minutes of free time or whatever).

Also could he use stickers cut out pictures in magazines or some other stuff for his bible note book?

[beaglemamma2008]

I have read so many posts about the amount of handwriting included with the MFW 1st package. DD (6) just started MFW 1st today. I was fully expecting dd to balk and whine (especially by the time the third writing section rolled around), but instead she turned it into a little game that I thought I'd share with you! (She occasionally did this game in MFW K last year, too.)

She would complete one line of letters (all of her A's, for example), then ask me to circle the one that I thought was the best. After I circled one, I would ask her if she would have circled the same one or a different one, and she would tell me which one she would have circled and why. For example, "I wouldn't have circled that one because it doesn't reach all the way up to the top line. I think I would have circled this one instead." So not only is she breaking up the handwriting part a little bit, but she's also taking the time to evaluate the way her letters are formed.

So if you have a kid who's not enjoying the writing part at all, maybe something as simple as this little game will help make it doable! As for the Proverb handwriting, I'm gonna have to wait and see how she handles that one! That remains to be seen!

[Ariasarias]

With the Proverb, I break it up over three days. This does two things. It makes the handwriting more manageable and it helps me to remember to review the verse,
"reading" the verse together each day.
Nicole

[Cyndi (AZ)]

We have thoroughly enjoyed working through MFW 1st grade this year. However, we are to the point now where my son is supposed to write a couple of sentences in his Bible Notebook to summarize the story. We've been doing it for several weeks now, and he really struggles with this. He can tell the story back to me, he can answer any questions I ask him about the story, but he can't seem to put together a few sentences to summarize it.

My question is how hard should I be pushing this? He will sit for 2 hours and not be able to put together 3 sentences to summarize. How important is it that he "gets" this in 1st grade? Any suggestions on how I can help him? I work through the who, what, when, where, why questions with him. I've given him ideas. I always end up basically telling him what to write after much time and frustration. I appreciate any suggestions! Thanks!

This is *my* opinion.

It sounds like your ds is doing great. My dd could narrate as well, and remember important points of the story, but summarizing isn't easy. I went through that same struggle with her and it may be in the archives around here somewhere . . . What we ended up doing is after dd would narrate, I would say, "So you're saying, 'this (a short one or two sentence of her narration)' and she could either agree or change it a bit. Then I would have her write that down. The first few times, I wrote it and she copied it. By the end of the year, she was getting the hang of summarizing and it came much easier to her doing ADV the next year. I think summarizing is a skill that needs to be taught/learned and doesn't just come naturally to some. Sitting for 2 hours trying to think of something to write sounds too miserable to me. A little coaching is a good thing.

HTH

[NJCheryl]

I am also in 1st right now, and my son has trouble with a short summary. He has great story comprehension, but wants to give every detail in his summary. I usually let him give his summary orally. Then I shorten it on paper and he copies it into the notebook.

Cheryl

[TriciaMR]

If you ever listen to Andrew Pudewa talks (he's the Institute for Excellence in Writing guy)...

He even tells you to help your 6th graders when they get stuck. His question is, which is better: That they write nothing, or write *something*, even if it isn't their own idea. He gives an example of going to a kid, asking a couple of questions, and then making a couple of suggestions and letting them choose. Then, going around the classroom (this was an example of how he would do this in a classroom setting), eventually making it back to the student, and guiding them to the next sentence. Usually, by the 3rd or 4th sentence, the kid is getting the idea, and finishes the paragraph on his own.

We need to model writing a lot to our kids. My dd is really struggling with writing a description of a room in Writing Strands 3. I'm pretty much doing the work for her, because she's not "getting" it. So, we talk, suggest, and then I write. Sometimes she adds or changes something, but my dd needs to *see* out-loud how it is done. I suspect we'll be doing this for a couple of more years (or maybe shorter), and then something will click, and she'll get it.

It's just like when we teach our kids a chore. First we show them how. Then we do it with them. Then they do it on their own. I think for writing, we need to do a lot of the first two steps before we can get to the third. And even then, everyone needs an editor to help them find their mistakes.

-Trish

[RachelT]

I like what Trish replied! My dd is in 1st gr. and we just got to the New Testament portion on Day 126 or so. She is a great writer compared to how my son was at that age, but some days she still just comes up with one good sentence and works more on the picture. Other days she writes and it almost fills up the page! The other day I told her that I want her to write 2 or 3 sentences now that she is not having to write in her phonics workbook and she was stuck after writing the first sentence. She had already read and narrated the story back to me. So I just prompted her by asking some questions about what happened next in the story and then she came up with two more sentences. So, I think that if they need more discussion to get their thoughts going or need to copy something that you have dictated, both are good strategies.

Every child is at a different place. The Bible notebook was painful for my son when he was in 1st grade. He liked the stories, but writing/drawing were difficult for him and he needed more help. He had to trace everything then. Now I know that he is dysgraphic and dyslexic, but I didn't know that in 1st grade. I just knew it was really hard work for him! Now he can copy words without having to write over them and is even learning cursive and doing small bits of dictation. My son can always verbalize what he wants to say long before he can write it, so I write it down for him and then he copies it. That way, his brain only focuses on one part of the writing process at a time, he doesn't have to worry about the mechanics while he is deciding what he wants to say. My daughter likes the 1st grade work and it's easy for her, but I am trying to challenge her a wee bit by asking her to do a little more writing now and her drawings are much more elaborate, but both of them will have a 1st grade Bible notebook to keep as a snapshot of where they were at this age. How special!

I would just work on the writing for 10-15 minutes and then move on to something else.

Rachel

[Wendy B.]

He can tell the story back to me, he can answer any questions I ask him about the story, but he can't seem to put together a few sentences to summarize it. My question is how hard should I be pushing this? He will sit for 2 hours and not be able to put together 3 sentences to summarize. How important is it that he "gets" this in 1st grade? Any suggestions on how I can help him? I work through the who, what, when, where, why questions with him. I've given him ideas. I always end up basically telling him what to write after much time and frustration. I appreciate any suggestions! Thanks!

If he is narrating the story back to you and can answer questions about the story then he has already thought of many sentences to write. It then is just a matter of helping him decide which ones should go in his notebook.

When my ds was at this stage. I would either count the sentences he narrated or write them down as we talked about the story. He might say 5-10+ sentences in his verbal narration so I would then help him choose which ones best summarize the story. He was very encourage to know that he had X number of sentences to choose from!

HTH

[wisdomschool]

We did something different so I'll share just for the sake of sharing! My oldest ds had(and still has, though I'm seeing a bit of light at the end of the tunnel) trouble with writing--he just hates to write! He can write, he's been taught with MFW for all of his handwriting instruction. But he says it hurts his hand to write and he just doesn't like it!!! He has great comprehension skills etc...etc...reading was hard for him too so when he was a 1st grader we chose to concentrate more on reading and let the writing go for a while(not everyones style but it did work for us--he's a great reader now!)

When he "had" to write he would "change" his summery(even asking me how many letters there were to write if he said it this way rather than that way etc...) yet if he didn't "have" to write his summery he would retell it well! We bought a tape player(with a little microphone:) and when it was time for him to do his summery he would go off by himself and record his summery, I would listen to it later to see that he really did it and that he had good comprehension!

That worked for us then! He is now a 9 y.o. 3 rd grader and we are having to work hard at writing now.....he is dealing with it alot better now then he would of at 6 or 7.....

We didn't do this, but I just had an idea--my son loves to type/send emails etc.....so typing out a summery might be an option for some(even maybe just sometimes to change it up a bit).

Blessings,
Debbie

[deroos69]

Thanks, everyone! Debbie, I chuckled when I read your post because your ds sounds a lot like mine. He struggles a bit with reading, too, and he's so concerned about how many words or how many sentences are in the summary because he doesn't like to write either. That's why he sat for 2 hours that day, I was trying to see if he was just being lazy because he doesn't like to write, or if he was really struggling with the summary. But he has a hard time even speaking a summary, even though he can re-tell the story and answer the questions. I appreciate all the responses!

[my3boys]

I have two children doing First. I haven't stressed too much over the notebook summaries. I have them tell me something about the story and I write that on an index card. They copy it into their notebook and draw an appropriate picture. I don't worry about what they say in their summary as long as it is something that happened in the story - sometimes it is one sentence long and sometimes it is three. I'll give you a few examples of their summaries to give you an idea of what they are writing:

*God told Moses to go to Pharaoh in Egypt and say, "Let my people go."

*God fed manna and quail to his people.

*Samson was a strong man.

*Ruth helped Naomi.

*David launched his slingshot at Goliath's forehead. Goliath fell to the ground. The Philistines ran away. The end.

You can tell that some stories inspire more in them than others

[cbollin]

I feel like 1st is a big jump from K. It is a lot of writing and has seemed to be too much for my busy little boys! Also, an experienced local physical therapist (she's in her 80's!) told me that children shouldn't work at writing until age 8. It's like getting the cart before the horse, they need to use larger arm and shoulder motions (play) for a long time to really be ready for the smaller motions in writing. I tend to be a "Better Late Than Early" person. I love my kids learning at a young age, I just don't like to push reading and writing (especially writing). As a result, I've done 1st stretched over 2 years or waited until they are 7-8. I really wish the books didn't say K & 1st on the cover because so many kids aren't ready for the same things at K or 1st age.

That’s a lot in that paragraph. Whoa. Here we go.

I sorta, kinda agree with the premise that the Physical Therapist is getting at. But, not really. How do I say this without it sounding wrong? Occupational Therapist tend these days to incorporate plenty of large motor and tactile sensory therapies along side the fine motor therapies so that it in integrated instead of seen as separate things to develop at different rates. They get the kiddos back in balance on skills.

I have special needs children. Been in special needs clinics for years now. I’ve watched expert occupational therapist do co-therapy with physical therapists and speech therapists to do it all together to help the child really develop.

So, The good thing is that MFW K includes large motor and sensory tactile methods in order to balance the development. Perhaps those years of Marie Hazell being a speech therapist and special needs Kindy teacher gave her insights into this.
One of the things that I really like about MFW preschool, is that it really helps work on large motor, cognitive, and fine motor, and language developmental domains to help a child be ready to begin to transition to paper in 1st grade.

I don’t have boys. But I have an autistic girl. Yes, many boys can “take longer” to be ready for pencil. But give them a stick and dirt.. and wow, you have fine motor skills. Give them lego blocks and wow.. they are developing those fine motor skills. Can your boys do their writing in the sand with a stick? Why not? Then., paper and pencil later.

More games for fine motor skills with children:

Squirt guns and squirt bottles. Send the boys outside to squirt the sides of the house with the bottles and clean the vinyl at the same time!

Play with tweezers

Cut with scissors

Check out this
http://make-the-grade-ot.com/Activities ... 0Grasp.pdf
http://make-the-grade-ot.com/Fine%20Motor.html
http://www.otinfo.org/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=96

So, do that stuff in place of pencil and paper activities. Don’t worry too much if it says “preschool” on some of the lists. Older kids can enjoy the activities as well with some modification for their age and preferences of toys.

One great idea I saw on one of those sites was to use tweezers to pick up coins and stack the coins.
Well, that would incorporate so well into math lessons with money, and counting and sorting and all of that. wow

Use the ideas in the 1st grade Math section called “Addition and Subtraction activities” to cross over with developmental domains with fine motor. Have them write with chalk on sidewalk, or dry erase marker, or break off crayons in small pieces.

Ok, I’ll admit it! I’m preaching to myself on all of this. After moving to Memphis, I got over focused with my youngest on speech therapy and have to get back to the occupational therapy so she can grow in writing skills.

Did I mention she makes her own grocery lists before shopping? Amazing what motivates her.

You can do MFW 1st without pencil writing if you’d prefer. You could let them dictate their narrations and summaries to you and you write them down, or record them out loud for them. Use the workbooks out loud with them. Although, honestly, the blue workbook isn’t that much writing, is it? It’s the Proverbs copywork pages and Bible notebook. Well, you could have them take all week to practice the Proverbs verse in print or cursive (your choice), or just have them memorize it without writing.

note: it is ok to break up the writing over the week or adjust for the needs of your child. Don’t’ worry about that. They don’t have to jump in the deep end of the pool in 1st grade. You can ease them in if there is a need.

note: you could cover the words on the manuals with stickers, or remove the cover and not have the issue with grade levels, right?

Hope all this rambling makes sense!

of course it does! Been there, done that!

PS: Next years hopeful plan...
DS 14 Ancient History & Lit HS
DS 13, DD 11, DS almost 9 1850MOD
DS almost 7, DS 4 & DS 2 Not sure yet....

I'm really seeking God's answers for my family in this right now and just needed to talk about it with people who understand what I'm talking about. I know God knows what I'm talking about, but you know what I mean, right?

Thanks,
Aimee

yep. I know what you mean.

(((hugs)))

I hope something helped someone.

-crystal

[Mom2theteam]

As you know, my son has significant fine motor delays and handwriting is nearly impossible for him right now. I don't know when he will be ready to write well. He will be finishing K this summer and will be ready for 1st (phonics and math), but I am very worried about the writing that is required. Anyone ever do 1st with a delayed writer?

The writing in first doesn't really pick up till about a third or half way through...when the notebooking starts. There is writing before that, but it isn't that much. So, he does have a little more time.

My son did not have this problem. However if he did, I would scribe (or write it for him). There is "dictation" or "spelling" every couple days. Depending on his ability, I would have him do some and then do the rest orally. When you do get to the notebooking, I would have him write a little and then you scribe the rest. If you are doing some other sort of practice for handwriting, I would just scribe for the entire thing.

I think that is something you can easily adjust for.