ADVentures - NOT needed alongside older programs! (David Hazell reply)

[Lucy]

In the future I would like to do Adventures with my little boys. Is it difficult to do Adventures with one of the 5-year plan? Anyone doing this? How long does Adventures take each day, approximately? Thanks!

Tracey,
If I had younger ones I would definitely be glad for the supplements and very glad that I did not have to do a whole complete other curriculum. It is academically challenging as the years progress. Marie (and God) did a really awesome job of incorporating some of Adventures into years 4 and 5.

Adventures takes about 3 hours a day (that would include all subjects). It would not be recommended by MFW to do Adventures along side an upper program.

I need to emphasize that it was never the intention of MFW to have families do Adventures and another one of the 5 year cycles at the same time. They would not recommend this. Adventures was written for the oldest child to give them one more year before entering the 5 year cycle. Younger siblings working with older siblings seems to work fine at the 2nd grade level and above but ECC for oldest 2nd graders was over and over again being reported as too much. You know how most of us are with our oldest, usually we are thinking they can do it all, and we do too much. So this is why MFW went back and created this curriculum.

The idea is to keep the family together as much as possible and to minimize preparation and to maximize the amount of learning time in the least amount of time.

Remember too that whatever years a child does in the 5 year cycle in 2nd and 3rd grade will be repeated again in 7th and 8th grade. This is why the first time through you can relax about them getting it all and only do what is you feel is appropriate or at the ability of the child at that age.

This does not mean of course that if you choose to do it that there is going to be some MFW police coming to your house taking away one of your curriculums LOL. Each family is different and so God will lead each one differently. I just wanted it to be made clear that only under very special circumstances would you do both at the same time.

Grace to you all on the journey,
Lucy

[Tracey in ME]

This will work out GREAT! My oldest boy will be in 2nd grade when we hit these years and then he will be able to do ECC before getting into the World History portion---whew! The Beast will start the 5-year rotation when we do ECC for the 2nd time...isn't that great timing!? Woohoo!

I feel much better knowing that Adventures-type stuff is done in years 4 and 5. I don't feel like I will be jipping my kiddos out of the Adventures year now! Wohoo!

[david]

Just to make it perfectly clear that MFW does not recommend doing 2 upper level programs. And all who call have been advised to set one of the packages aside. MFW emphasizes sanity for both mom and family. Our goal is to help families finish in 4-5 hours daily and less when possible. We emphasize family unity in the family cycle. We desire that academics are not emphasized to the point of overkill and while "life" is sacrificed. Character is more important as in ministry. When we do too much we can burn our children and our family out.

David Hazell

[kellybell]

Would it be nuts to do K, Adventures, and CTG next year?

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 1:04 pm

To cut to the chase, yes, you would be nuts to do Adventures, CTG, and K. Adventures and CTG are "too big" to do more than one at a time. I think you would go nuts (or simply cheat the kids out of a good year) if you tried to do Adventures and CTG at the same time. I'd suggest that you do CTG and K and leave it at that. Adventures sure sounds fun and I wish we had done it (it wasn't available yet during the year we could've done it).

Go ahead and put the now-7-yo in CTG next year, knowing that later you'll repeat the information when she's more attentive. Don't expect a lot of retention, just go with where she's at and make sure the book basket has some good easy readers with the topics (Rome, human body, etc.) in it.

If you start the year and she's just not getting it, you can still do K and CTG and for your middle child, just focus on the 3Rs and a few nice read-alouds.

[Kristinemomof3]

Posted: Tue Oct 24, 2006 7:22 pm

Hi, my 5 year old, almost 7 year old and almost 9 year old are all doing CTG this year and they ALL LOVE it. I was not big on buying two sets, so I didn't. Maybe we are missing something, but we are having a ball and are in a co-op that also keeps us busy (as far as making sure the work is done for class)

HTH.
Kristine

[cbollin]

Just want to say I found this thread to be an encouragement, as I have a 7yo in Adventures, an almost 5yo, and a 3yo whom I would LOVE to have keeping pace with her older brother but, alas, she cannot thus far. Kelly's suggestions gave me definite food for thought though. Thanks!

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 5:58 am

Just remember that the younger children will get the content repeated when they are older. It helps Mom to remember that it's going to be ok. One of the things that I'm finding out is that our young children (include up to 2nd/3rd grade sometimes) are still learning how to learn. Nothing wrong with working on the basics 3'r and just exposing and involving them with the older program.

--crystal

[Toni@homezcool4us]

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 4:30 pm

Thanks for that VERY important reminder, Crystal. I'm going to try hard to focus on the three R's for my littles. First we have to get used to not trying to duplicate "school at home." Then we have to get used to not being able to duplicate the oldest child's learning experiences. What a journey (sheeuw).

[TurnOurHearts]

We are scheduled to do CrtoGr next year and I am very much looking forward to that. My "problem" if you can call it that is that I very much would like to do Adventures with my 2nd and 3rd boys next year also. I truly want to do something just for them ( and let the PreK "adventure" alongside us)...

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:15 pm
We did ADV last year, and you're right, it is a great year! But it is also a complete year, as is CtG. I can't imagine being able to do justice to both programs in trying to do them at the same time. It's just too much. I don't mean to sound negative, I just think you'd be running ragged trying to squeeze the best out of both and not really being able to because there simply aren't enough hours in the day to do it all! I think the reason it's not 'prescription' MFW to do two older programs is that they know, realistically, it won't be worth the head/heartache for Mom or kiddos.

However, I can testify to the younger ones getting something out of the older programs. My daughter learned SO much doing ADV along with us while doing MFWK last year. And she's learned TONS this year doing ECC along with her MFW1. I keep it simple for her, include her in science, music, art, geography (some of it), and even sometimes PLL (the memorization & picture studies). You'll be amazed at what your younger ones will pick up. Now, they won't be writing essays on it a year from now, but they'll be able to tell you what they loved. :)

We'll be in the same boat with you next year. I'll have both my kids in CtG. Honestly, I feel that I'm getting an insight into next year with ECC, as there have been so many things my younger child has been able to participate in. In looking at the years already done, I'm sure Marie has packed CtG with just as many fun, memorable things for older & younger children alike.

[MJP]

Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:33 pm

I think sometimes our children miss out more when we try to do too much. If you are only doing CTG, you will be rested enough to read another book to the youngers or wrap them up in toilet paper as mummies (not scheduled, but it was a big hit at our house!).

One program also decreases the guilt factor. You will not always be worrying about the things you didn't get to. However, note: I do not always get things done with ONE program. I do think it would be too much to do two programs.

[Omma]

Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 8:30 am

Another point to consider is that it is very hard to do two completely different historical time periods in the same year. Either have everyone do American history and that general time period, or the ancients. So if you really wanted to do Adventures this coming year, then I'd probably vote for doing the corresponding MFW programs for your older ones (EX1850 and 1850 to MOD), and then go on to CtG for everyone.

I like to be totally 'engrossed' or 'submerged' (with)in the historical time period that we have chosen... keeping my eyes open for any supplemental materials that we might add in to enhance what we are doing (ie. videos/DVD's, games, extra crafts or puzzle books, puzzles, and book basket ideas). It would be hard to jump from studying King Tut's tomb to studying Paul Revere's ride and the state of Massachusetts, for example. At least, for us, it would be hard and not as fun!

Brenda

[LSH in MS]

I am just wondering if anyone has done adventures with 7 year olds at the same time as doing exploration to 1850's with older ones. Does it make sense to do separates programs, or should i just try to have the younger ones follow along somehow? Adventures just look so fun and i don't want to miss it!!!!
pam

I am doing Ex1850 with 6th,5th 3rd, and 1st graders. I am using the supplement for the 3rd grader and MFW 1st for the 1st grader.

That is enough! It is going well and my 1st grader is doing just the reading and Bible of first and joining in with the 3rd grader on history and science.

The manual is great. We have thoroughly enjoyed the books suggested for all of the ages.

[Jenileigh]

I wanted to do both but now, 7 weeks into EXP-1850's I am very glad I didn't attempt it. I love having the girls together, things are going great and I don't feel like my 2nd grader is missing anything. :)

[SandKsmama]

I am using Ex1850 this year with a 12 year old and a 7 year old (using the supplement for him), and it's going VERY well!

[doubleportion]

I get the idea of trying to spare the parent having to teach two separate curricula, but isn't that subject matter just as important for the younger ones to learn as it is for the eldest?

Thanks (and new here),
Khara

ADV is American History designed specifically for 2nd graders. You get American History in the 5 cycle too, but that is created for the multi age group not just 2nd graders.

HTH

[Fly2Peace]

I think it is to protect our oldest children from us first time parents. The oldest tends to get pushed the hardest, and so if we are using a curriculum with them that is designed for older kids too, we sometimes have a difficult time knowing when to draw the line between "advanced or older" student assignments, and regular students. After all, when you first see that with your oldest, you often wonder, well, is my child an advanced student? Should they do that? I think it just helps ease us into the right level for that oldest child. We tend to learn as we go too, and so it isn't as difficult to see when to stop with the ones that come after.

The youngers will still get that great Adventures material in the cycle, and it all works out great.
Hope this makes sense.

[cbollin]

Khara,
tagging on with more of the same......

ADV is written to be for 2nd graders. Younger siblings don't miss out on the material in ADV. They get it in 2 ways. 1. The Bible/science units in ADV can be done as a family with younger children. Lots of hands on learning and time together. So you invite them to join in the fun on those things and they are introduced to the material in gentle ways, while you teach the 2nd grader at 2nd grade level. and 2. All of the history from ADV is repeated in EX1850 and 1850mod. so if a child is in 2nd/3rd grade when older siblings are in EX1850, they even get a supplemental package to use that comes from the history materials in ADV. And then in 1850MOD they get a supplement packet to keep us from over teaching the younger ones about too many wars in modern times.

And I wanted to tag on something else...

The year at convention where I bought RTR, I saw MFW had this new program called "Adventures". I had to buy it! I was in a rush and didn't ask anyone in the MFW booth if i needed it or not.I was in a hurry and they saw how hurried I was and just gave me what was on my list like I asked.

I was just in a rush that year and I read the description --- history for 2nd grade. Wahoo! I thought... wow! now when my oldest is doing MFW"s history after RTR, I'll be able to do the same history with my next child. well....... good thing is... I joined this message board shortly after that and learned that all of the history in ADV was in EX1850. So, I knew I didn't have to do ADV even though I already bought it. oh yeah, I remember now..... I was still excited because I figured I had a back up plan if combining didn't work with my slightly special needs middle gal...... but combining did work! that's another story to share another time.

So, my school year ended in April the next year. While waiting for the EX1850 program to be released in July, I already had the ADV stuff that I had bought a year in advanced...... so, knowing that the history was covered, we decided to play around with the Bible and Science in ADV that summer and just enjoy it.

So, if we had never done it, it would be have been ok. We did parts of it for fun stuff.

with all of that said... I do know that there are some people who did ADV and another program from 5 year cycle and it worked in their lives and some it didn't. I know in some cases people used ADV with older kids --- in the cases where it worked... it was God's provision for what the family needed.

-crystal

[Cyndi (AZ)]

I just wanted to mention that ADV is a wonderful program that is written for either a 2nd grader or a 3rd grader that is the oldest in family. It's like the 2nd/3rd grade supplement for EX1850 that way. If a new student wanted to do American History and Geography (ADV) in 3rd grade before starting ECC in 4th, that would work out great, too, and get them through the cycle before High School.

That probably didn't have to be said, but I thought I'd throw it in the mix.

[cbollin]

If anyone is still reading this thread.... Can you tell me if you think Adventures is enough to fill a whole year? It seems like I'm hearing a lot of comments about it being good for supplementing the Year 4 and Year 5 unit studies for older kids, which is wonderful, but does it stand well on its own? Would I be better off starting my oldest in EC&C in 2nd grade and using Adventures on the side or as a summer program?

I'm still reading I'm sure others are too.....

I don't think it is a good idea in most cases to do ECC in 2nd grade when oldest is in 2nd grade. Most newer to homeschooling mom/teachers will over do it and that's not good. and when oldest is in 2nd grade, we are still learning as teachers to adjust. so to jump into a multi level program for 4th-8th graders with a 2nd grader as oldest..... nah...

I did ECC with my oldest in 2nd grade only because ADV hadn't been written yet. So, do ADV. I would not do ADV as a summer program when your oldest will be 2nd grade age. If you have an oldest who is 4th grade and you have the manual just sitting around... well..... that was a different situation that I was in. I wanted to know what was in the program that we otherwise wouldnt have got to do. So I can say looking back at all of that --- go with ADV.

ADV has 34 weeks of lesson plans, each week is 4 days long with a light and independent Friday. Many things can be supplemented on Friday -- or it can be a day for co-op or dance classes, Park Day, or serving together as a family in community service. It is by design to be a shorter week to recognize the age of the child. You have the oldest in 2nd grade, and many of us will have younger siblings to teach and juggle.

If you do everything that is in the ADV manual (all notebooking, reading, book basket, foreign language, music, art, math, English, Bible, science, copywork, the optional dictations for advanced kids) etc... it can take about 3 hours a day (sometimes a bit more). That is a lot of school time in 2nd grade when you have to still teach a bunch of younger kids and juggle life.

One of MFW strengths is that it uses strong, effective and efficient lessons and resources so that we can get done in a short amount of time. You can add in controlled ways to the program with using more of the internet linked resources in the science book -- that's one way to add without supplementing. Book basket is a part of MFW so that's not extra you are adding.

I think it is a full program for 2nd graders.
You get Bible -- and it's about learning the names of Jesus while developing a Biblical worldview of science (in other words, while you study Jesus is the light of the world, you study light in science.)
You get US History
an overview of the 50 states
reading time
book basket
math
English
spelling
Music
Art
and foreign language is recommended too.

Some people supplement because they don't know what else to do with their kids' unstructured afternoons. Here is a link to a thread with Ideas to Fill Unstructured afternoons with Productive Educational activities.
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1829

As for the year of EX1850,. there is a Younger Sibling Supplement to use. All of it is scheduled in the EX1850MOD. The resources and books for that Supplement are the history portions from the ADV program via the Living books in the ADV program. So, you don't teach from ADV or buy ADV that same year. But some times when people are typing fast they might call it the ADV supplement when they really mean the EX1850 younger sib supplement. It is there to supplement the history so that you can teach multiple ages from one manual when you have lots of kids in grades 2-8. So that's what it means. It could just as easily be called a "young sib reading set" or a "younger sib kit"

Here.... a link is worth a lot more. These are key "living books" from Adventures in My Father’s World, designed specifically for 2nd and 3rd graders, to help make history come alive for younger students. All of these books are conveniently scheduled in your lesson plans for Exploration to 1850. They are great books, and you won’t want to miss any of them.

If you use ADV with oldest in 2nd grade, then you can hang onto the books until later.
on the EX1850 part of the website.
http://www.mfwbooks.com/item/14980/2nd- ... upplement/

then in 1850MOD, year 5, there is another young sib supplement -- but it is different books from ADV. So in year 4 when older kids are in heavier topics in world history in modern times, there is a way to give 3rd and 2nd grader age appropriate history content with the other resources. It's all scheduled in one manual

• Note for 2nd and 3rd Grade: The content of 1850 to Modern Times is difficult for 2nd and 3rd graders. The information is more difficult to understand than in our other history programs; many of the books are written at a higher comprehension level. The history content is often troubling—describing wars and human cruelty—and not suitable for younger students. The author of The Story of the World does not recommend using Volume 4 with 3rd grade or younger, and we agree. However, 2nd and 3rd graders can still join you for Bible, science experiments, science readings (the easier sections), and studying presidents and states. (Remember that 2nd and 3rd graders will have an opportunity to repeat 1850 to Modern Times in 7th or 8th grade, when they will have the maturity needed to fully comprehend the complex information.)
  
  To add history content for 2nd and 3rd graders, you will need the 2nd-3rd Grade Supplement for 1850 to Modern Times. http://www.mfwbooks.com/item/15980/2nd- ... ement-for/
  
  Fascinating literature books as well as two activity books help make history and U.S. geography come alive for younger students. You will find all of these books conveniently scheduled in your lesson plans. They are great books, and you won’t want to miss any of them!

-crystal

[jasntas]

My ds is actually in 3rd and we started with ADV and I don't regret it. This is actually our first year using MFW. (Our 2nd attempt at hs'ing. We attempted K with another program). Anyway, it has been a wonderful year and a great intro for us to MFW. It is definitely a full year but not overwhelming. I would not call it a supplemental program. My ds has learned so much. And so have I.

[Cyndi (AZ)]

I hope this doesn't come off as rude, but anyone that says that ADV is not a full program has obviously not done it, or at least not done it correctly. My dd is an advanced student and was quite challenged and engaged during ADV. Her cousins, ages 9 and 12, also completely enjoyed (and learned) while sitting in when they stayed with us during the year. My 9yo niece was so jealous - she got to read one book a week in public school. Can you imagine? And neither one of them had seen a notebook like my dd kept for ADV. I'm sorry if I seem put-out, I'm just a little shocked that someone would think it is "supplemental." ADV is an incredible year.

I got the impression those people meant they use/used it to supplement the Year 4 and Year 5 unit studies for older kids...which led me to wonder if it was an important stop along the way, or if we should just wait and do the studies as a unit. Anyway, I'm glad to hear it's a good program on its own. I'm looking forward to it.

Ah. I get it. My earlier post probably was too harsh in defense of ADV, but we're pretty passionate about it. We absolutely love US History and it was a great year for us. Having great curriculum to teach helped us through a very tough year on the home front. And I'm now in the middle of moving after I just moved 2 months ago, and I'm a bit loopy!

[RachelT]

Hi! We used Adv. last year when my oldest was in 2nd gr. and my dd was in K. It went great! They both really enjoyed a lot of the activities, stories, library books, songs, and learning about the basics of our country's history and geography. My younger one was able to participate a lot and my older one was challenged, but enjoyed it. He would even have been fine doing it this year, in 3rd grade. It is a full, year-long program. One thing that is nice about Adv. is that our library and probably many others has so many books on American history, famous Americans of the past, and these topics. It was really easy to find plenty of "living books" for Adventures, which is nice.

Rachel

[meagabby]

ADV was my favorite year so far.
Now that the confusion has been cleared up I don't need to comment on the details of the program or that it is not light, in fact it was much different than MFW 1st grade for my dd in terms of daily commitment.

I had a 2nd grader and K that year and they loved the activities and the state sheets the most.

I'm sold on MFW and have enjoyed all the years, but I really look forward to EXP1850 to dig deeper and at the same time I will have younger sibs so I'll get to enjoy the books from ADV again!!

I don't know if it was my time in life or actually understanding the info that never clicked for me when I was in school.

[TriciaMR]

Does anyone go ahead and do Adventures with all their kids and them move them to the cycle even if older kids are already cycling rather than skipping it? Who knows what will happen down the road for us, but I'm thinking if we love MFW and stick with it, that is what I would like to do. Thoughts?

Explorers to 1850 and 1850 to Modern Times cover some of the same time period as Adventures. If you have 2nd and 3rd graders in those years, then you get the 2nd & 3rd grade supplement, which includes the read alouds and activities from Adventures.

Adventures is meant to be a "full" program. I can't imagine trying to do two MFW full programs at once...

-Trish

[Julie in MN]

I haven't done ADV (it wasn't out when my 3rd grader started homeschooling), but over the years whenever I've heard folks talk about fun things in ADV, they are always things we have done in other MFW years. Sometimes they were optional (such as SOTW activity book ideas) and sometimes there probably wasn't as much time spent on them, but we did write to the president, make ink out of berries, make ships out of tinfoil, and make Johnny Cake Both programs use the same state sheets that are in ADV, to learn about all 50 states. I do think ADV might spend a little more time on each state, but the book basket ideas for younger kids to read about the states are in the older manuals, too. ADV may also do more reading about holidays and Native American cultures, but both are covered in some ways in later years. You could always get any fun ADV books and put them in book basket.

If you had spare $$$, you could always get both manuals and do things that look interesting. I think Crystal did some ADV during one summer. But really, make sure you aren't the type that will try to do ALL of BOTH at the SAME time
Julie

[Mom2theteam]

My recent question/thread brought to light a number of great reasons to have an oldest do ADV for second grade. I also understand why K & 1st have their own programs. Some of the responses though brought up a few more questions for me.

I have prayed a lot the last three weeks about putting my oldest in CTG since it is a 2nd - 8th grade program. He is in 1st, but starting a lot of 2nd grade work in other areas. God led me to continue into ADV, which from a 'teaching' alone point I am grateful for. The less home school on my plate in this season with two toddlers, probably the better. I also do prefer a gentler approach and introduction to difficult subjects for children.

The question though has crossed my mind of why ADV only for the oldest? Why isn't it a separate 2nd grade program, like the K & 1st programs? Won't my 2nd, 3rd, & 4th children be exposed to topics I am protecting my first from when they are in 2nd & 3rd grades? For those of you with older children, are you able to protect the younger ones as you home school, or do they learn about slavery, war, Greek gods, Homer, etc. at young ages?

Thank you & Blessings!

I asked something somewhat similar recently. But, it was about them missing out on the info/fun in ADV. The general answer to mine was they would get the same info in a different program. I'm still not sure I want my 1st to be the only one to experience ADV, but we will see when we get there. But you question has a different spin. I'm curious to see the answers to this.