AHL Discussions - History (Notgrass,Pharaohs,AnswersBk,Maps)

[DS4home]

Do you use the Notgrass exam book?

I am getting ready to order the high school Ancient History and lit for my daughter. So here is my question:
The catalog states that there are no formal tests for history, Bible, or lit. BUT....They have you purchase the Notgrass's Quz and Exam book. For those of you who have done this.....did you use it?
Thanks.
Carylee
mom2seven

Yes, we used it all year. The Quiz and Exam book has comprehension questions to respond to after each days reading. It also has Unit Quizes and Quarterly Exams, but I don't think MFW scheduled those in. We always did the comp. questions and sometimes I would add in a Unit quiz when I wanted to know she was retaining things :) All the answers are in the back of the book. I think it is a good tool to use along with the reading.

Dawn

[gressman9]

Thanks! That was very helpful.
Carylee

[DS4home]

Looks like I am not going to be able to make it to convention this year, so I am hoping someone here can answer my (probably stupid ) question.

If AHL uses Notgrass as the spine (which in and of itself is a full year of history/lit/Bible, if I understand it right) then what is the advantage/need to add to the Notgrass set (with all the other books included in the AHL package?)

Not that I don't want ds to do all the other books! I totally trust Marie's judgment on what is necessary. Just curious what the thinking is behind the additional books.

MFW is only scheduling half of the Notgrass text to be read in AHL, then finishing it the next year. So, in spreading it out over two years, that leaves you with a lot of time to "fill in", so to speak. It gives us a chance to take in some other great books along side of Notgrass to give you a rich year of just Ancients. I really like how Marie put together the Bible portion of AHL too. It is so much more than what you would get just doing Notgrass alone.

Hope that helps answer your, not so silly question
There is probably more to it than my simple answer, but this at least explains some of it, at a surface level.

Dawn

[cbollin]

Here are some guesses.....(I can be very wrong on this b/c I'm just reading the samples of the program and saying these observations. I haven't used Ancients)

*the other books help to make the English credit and Bible integrate with history so that you have 3 full credits?
*it's a similar concept to adding living books to the spines in the younger years?
*In addition to what Dawn mentioned (half of the book is used in Ancients), MFW seems to use the Notgrass essays as part of "history" credit, while using other things for English credit (literature supplement). And the Bible credit is from other things including reading the entire Old Testament.

• Exploring World History by John Notgrass provides a strong Christian
  perspective for world history. MFW combines these books with other resources
  over a two year period for a number of reasons. First, taking two years to
  cover the material allows students to read the entire Old Testament during
  Ancient History and Literature and the entire New Testament during World
  History and Literature. It also allows the student to study church history
  in depth. MFW's program has additional literature and literary analysis beyond
  Exploring World History to enrich the literature portion of the program.
  The Literature and Composition Supplement includes extensive teaching on
  writing the argumentative essay during Ancient History and Literature. In
  World History and Literature, Writers INC provides additional instruction
  for a variety of writing assignments including a research paper. Other
  books such as Experiencing God and missionary biographies are added to
  enhance a full credit of Bible each year.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Just agreeing with the others. And I just had to say...

Every other program I've seen studies the ancients from creation (or from Egypt for secular programs) through Rome. One of the things I love about MFW is that they separate Rome from the ancients. That means that you aren't trying to squish the Old Testament history in with the New Testament/time of Jesus.

[bunnytracks]

The Notgrass website actually says that each book is equivalent to 3 credits. Lit, bible, and history. My guess is that they believed these other books were something very worthy of being read and that they would enrich the rest of the program as well as build the character of the student.

[Jenn in NC]

Yeah, I am thinking Dawn is right. The Notgrass website does indicate 3 credits (which is what caused my initial confusion), but doing it over the course of two years would significantly change that!

Julie I agree with you about not trying to put too much history into one year. It is a funny thing, when dh and I were first looking into using MFW, my one major hesitation was CTG. I just wasn't sure about spending so much time on OT history. Was I ever wrong! I think it was my favorite year (so far anyway). Not to say we aren't loving RTR. We are. And we're really looking forward to year 4 next year too. But the time in the OT was really wonderful.

Anyway. I digress. What were we talking about? Oh yeah, high school credits. Ok, I think I understand now. Thanks everybody.

[DS4home]

This question applies to AHL editions before 2014 and possibly to WHL

Our family is coming back to MFW after a year away. We're pretty excited about getting started. My older dd will be doing AH&L this year. I have been looking over the lesson plans and I'm seeing the two books, World History Map Activities and Ran McNally Historical Atlas of the World, rarely listed. How often are these two books really used?

It's going to be an interesting year. This will be the first year my dd's will be in two totally separate curriculums. Thanks for your help!
Angel

The map activities book and atlas are used for two years. They do a handful of the maps in AHL, then do more of them in WHL. The atlas would be used again as the next in line goes through high school, only the activities book is consumable.

I felt the map activities were a real asset to my dd's year. They are reading about that area of the world all year, and doing a few maps of the area was good. It helped them remember where those things took place and stayed with them longer because they spent time working on the map, not just looking at one for a moment and moving on. FWIW, I think it is worth the investment.

Dawn

[SkyeAngel]

Thank you for your advice. We did SL Core 7 last year and map work was the first to go when we ran out of time. Since the books are used both years, that does make a difference. Thanks for sharing. I appreciate the help.

[DS4home]

This question applies to AHL editions before 2014 and possibly to WHL

We're stumped. For the geography assignment scheduled on Thursday of Week 4, my dd is supposed to label the lines on the map at 4* apart (Question #1 on the activity sheet). We can't find an explanation for how to do this. We see Marie's note to use page 6 of the Atlas, but we're still not getting it. I'm guessing that this assignment is easier than we're making it....

OK, lets see if I can describe this in words You need to lay the two maps side by side and compare them. The workbook you are writing in is a much closer view. Marie's note is helping you to find the correct number for the top line on your workbook map. See where is it crossing through Greece and Asia Minor in your workbook? Now look for a line crossing through that same area on the map on page 6 in the atlas. Follow that line until you find the degree number clear on the right side of the map. Now that you have found that number, you can fill in the rest of them in your workbook.

Did this help? It would be so much easier to sit together and point here and there!

Dawn

[Teresa in TX]

I'm going to agree with Dawn here. Not much more info. I just remember when dd did that map and called me in with a deer-in-the-headlights look because of her confusion. I sat and took some time with her and what Dawn said is what we wound up doing. It wasn't simple. It definitely would be easier to look at the thing with you.

[4Truth]

Did this help? It would be so much easier to sit together and point here and there!

Got it! I think. Once she's found the starting point, she's just counting by 4's, right?

Part of the problem we were having was perspective. (Think "art" terminology... you know how in a picture, the farther away an object is, the smaller it is.) As Dawn said, the workbook map is a much closer view than the Atlas map, so we were having a hard time "seeing" how the 10* lines on the Atlas map matched up with the 4* lines on the workbook map. Once we looked closer and began tracing those lines to see where they fell, we realized how much closer together the lines are on the workbook map.

Is that right?

[DS4home]

By George I think she's got it

Good work, it sounds like you're on the right track now. Realizing that perspective difference was the key!

Glad to be of some help,
Dawn

[cbollin]

I wanted to mention some wording in this book. It is in reference to page 113, paragraph 4 where intermarriage is being described between sisters and brothers. There is a quote that you may want to read in regards to sleeping together and finding the other pleasing. It is written with 'love' in mind, but it may need to be discussed as your family deems necessary. If you don't have the book, you can still read it on Amazon. Click on the book to look inside and search for the word 'loved'.
Margo

I see the link on amazon says it is page 113. But in the book that MFW sells, it is p. 118.
for those wanting to make a note in the daily lesson plans, this is in week 16 and might be a nice footnote to talk about that day or in the weekly conference when we ask things like "so, what did you find interesting in this week's reading?" and then be able to discuss it in your values.

just to give another view of it....
although the sentence out of context reads a bit shocking, in the context of the paragraph, it might not be all that big of a deal for a 9th grader or older especially at that point in the Old Testament study as well.

-crystal

[LatinTea]

Very true! I had forgotten about the Old Testament readings. This sentence in UP would probably seem like nothing by then!

[cbollin]

I am wondering why all of the literature recommended in Exploring World History didn't come with the AHL High School curriculum, but only a couple (The Cat of Bubastes and Eric Liddel)?

Should I purchase or borrow the others? It's hard to tell when the student will need them, too, because the book is done out of order.

Thanks!

You don't use the other ones listed in Notgrass unless you want to add them in as extra reading and the students wants to. Those other titles are not part of AHL even though they are mentioned in the Notgrass book. There is no expectation to use all of those other titles.

AHL has plenty of literature assigned in the program as written. Additionally, there is a time in the English portion of many weeks where you have flexibility on Reading time. You can use historical fiction as listed in the intro of AHL, or you can let them read other novels.

maybe this info would help:

• Exploring World History by John Notgrass provides a strong Christian perspective for world history. MFW combines these books with other resources over a two year period for a number of reasons. First, taking two years to cover the material allows students to read the entire Old Testament during Ancient History and Literature and the entire New Testament during World History and Literature. It also allows the student to study church history in depth. MFW's program has additional literature and literary analysis beyond Exploring World History to enrich the literature portion of the program. The Literature and Composition Supplement includes extensive teaching on writing the argumentative essay during Ancient History and Literature. In World History and Literature, Writers INC provides additional instruction for a variety of writing assignments including a research paper. Other books such as Experiencing God and missionary biographies are added to enhance a full credit of Bible each year.

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Tracey,
Just agreeing with Crystal -- all the "required" literature is included. There is an "optional" list of books in the AHL manual which is more like the book basket list that you could find at your library (except the list is very short!). Instead of that list in the manual, you could use other books mentioned in Notgrass or elsewhere. My ds will probably be reading books with his book club for his "optional" book list.

I also wanted to mention that the book is a bit out of order for a while, because the Bible topics are coordinated with Notgrass and the other things you're doing, but basically you're following history chronologically. You read all of Notgrass Part I from Creation through Greece, but you read it chronologically. For instance, in the Notgrass book, "Creation" is the second chapter, but that's the first section studied in AHL. Or, in the Notgrass book, unit 4 starts with an overview of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (lesson 16), and then the next lesson (17) is on Abraham. Marie schedules lesson 17 before 16, because students read the Biblical account of Abraham's calling and initial journeys first; she waits to schedule lesson 16 until after the student has read the Biblical story of Isaac. It's chronological, and it's Bible first.

Does that help?
Julie

[cbollin]

This question applies to AHL editions before 2014 and possibly to WHL

How do we check out children's answers to the map activities in AHL (9th grade)?

Right now in AHL, it's not that bad over the year.

The fill in the blank questions have the answers in the book (answer key)

The map questions, I just take the time (3-5 minutes) to go through the questions and check if the work is correct on the student's page by using the same resources they use. I know the one in week 25 (?) something like that, took me 5-10 minutes because there were extras in the AHL plans to look over. But I use the same book she's using from and making sure she transfers the info where it looks "close enough" to accurate. And is completed according to the instructions. There are only 7 of this assignments in AHL, so I found it wasn't that bad of time at the conference time, or check real fast the day she does it.

love to hear how others did/do it

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

Hi Tracey,
There are only a few maps in AHL. There isn't an official answer key, but there are the materials that the student uses -- a page or two of info in the Welch map book, the Historical Atlas that's included in the set, and the extra hints in the AHL manual for the hard ones. I didn't have a problem knowing whether most of the assignments were correct. When I'm not sure, I ask on MFW boards

There was one spot on the first map that I had trouble with. We talked about it over on another board & Crystal's daughter explained that she knew the general area, and wrote it where there was the most space. That worked for us.

However, I also sent off a question to the publisher. (I can be annoying about details ) He was kind enough to investigate and reply. However, he didn't seem as detail oriented as I tend to be . Here is what he said. I concluded that my one detail doesn't seem to be crucial to giving a good grade.

• I forwarded your concern to our Vice President of Education, and she advised closely following the information within the Background Sources and Teacher Background pages. Within the To The Teacher page, the author points out the "commentary" about the maps is designed to be a reference. It was also suggested that an Atlas, maps and resource books and magazines may be helpful to use this book, the author does list several books as reference material.

So far, I've just had that one question. The rest I either recognized or could look up easily in the included resources (AHL manual, Welch mapping info, Historical Atlas).

Does that help?
Julie

[cbollin]

Can someone share which units of Notgrass are used in AHL vs WHL?
Thanks.

AHL covers creation to the time of the Greeks, so that's about units 1-9 in Notgrass (time of Old Testament)
WHL covers from time of Rome to modern, so that's the rest of the book. (New Testament time and forward)

I have vague memory that maybe one section in unit 9 was covered in WHL instead of AHL?
but that's the general break down on time frame.

-crystal

[BlossomsGirl]

Hi everyone,
I have a quick question. Today we started in AHL. We read the Answers book and I found that it was to difficult for her to read on her own by herself. Did anyone else find the same thing? I ended up reading it to her and we discussed it. Did anyone else do this. I don't think she will be able to handle this book alone. I will have to read it to her. So, is this ok? Or is she expected to read this alone and comprehend it without me?

Thanks for the replies

I think it will depend on the child. We started today also, but with my oldest who is a great reader so he did it on his own. I think I will ask him tomorrow what he read to see if he understands it. His younger brothers are not as good at reading and may need to be worked with more at that level. But I'm not there yet.

I am just excited to see that we are not alone starting today.

[Julie in MN]

Hi to you 2 who have started school already. We have until the day after Labor Day here.

I did read the Answers book to my son in 9th. I think it depends on the family, how busy you are, etc. I enjoyed it because there was a lot in there to discuss (Minnesota is a hugely old earth state, including many loved ones of strong faith), plus the fact that the chapters are long. I didn't think it was really dense reading, but it was long to keep up the attention span, so my son usually ate a snack or something while I read. I saw my son make the transition to high school during 9th grade, but it didn't happen in a week or two. More like 9 months.

If you *don't* have time to read it to him, you could consider doing it as a family in the evenings or something.

Also, there's a short video from Answers in Genesis that we used as a sort of "intro" to chapters (it doesn't have all the chapters, but a lot of them). It's only like 5 minutes for each chapter included, but it sort of summarized and drew my son in. He liked "seeing" the guys who were writing, too (a lot of chapters are written by Ken Ham, but not all of them). If you sign up for the AIG online newsletter, they'll send some inexpensive download opportunities every week, and that video could be one of them. But I bought the video and it was only like $13.

I've also heard there's an "Answers Book for Teens" out now, but I've never read it. Curious if it has enough meat for the high school apologetics of a student reading the entire Old Testament, or whether it's more for kids who aren't very exposed to the Bible.

Julie

[mlangley]

I had to read it to my son as well and have decided I will continue. Honestly, at some points it was over my head!!

[Buttercup78]

I don't have a high school student at the moment, but I DO own that book. I agree there are some things that are even difficult for an adult to understand at times! I think it's a great idea to read it aloud or together, especially so you can discuss the information!

[Julie in MN]

Is my 9th grader supposed to be taking the exams in the Notgrass Exploring World History?
Thanks for your help!
Amy C.

Amy,
Your student can skip the quizzes this year. He'll start doing them next year, when more of Notgrass is used, and it's used in order.

Julie