Cost - Concerns, Priorities

[Lucy]

Do I need the whole package?

I'm thinking about using ECC next year and was wondering if it was necessary to purchase all the books that are recommended. Are there some that are used alot during the year and others that I could probably supplement by using the library. I'd really appreciate your thoughts on this from those who have used this curriculum.

Thanks,
Terri

Author: Lucy
Date: 5/27/2004

Hi Terri,

I used ECC 2 years ago and you will use all the books. The only one that is used for a short time is Maps and Globes, but it is so inexpensive and a great little book explaining this topic so well, that I would not try to buy all the books separately. For fifty dollars you are getting all the books that you will need for the year. My kids loved the missionary stories but you may be able to find these at a church library or suggest they buy them. You could also use other books for read alouds from the suggested library books. I did not think that they were a waste though. They are stories of missionaries from the continents and countries you will study in ECC. My kids really enjoyed them too.

I have used CTG and RTR and I have found this to be true of these curriculums also.

Just one word about buying the books used. We always have to watch our money so I have tried to do this. Three things to consider. One, by the time you have spent your time and money to individuals trying to find and pay for them, you will not have saved much money,if any. Secondly, consider that the Hazells are giving you a good deal on the books and the time and prayer that went it to putting the package of books together. Thirdly, the Hazells give a large part of what they make to continue the work of bible translation which they were apart of for 8 years in Russia.

I hope this is helpful. You and your kids will love ECC. It is lots of fun while at the same time academic,gentle and most importantly Biblially focused.

Blessings,

Lucy

[Lori in MO]

Author: Lori in MO
Date: 5/27/2004

We are just finishing up ECC, and have had a wonderful year. I am also one who tries to get by without ordering all the books. Then if I do, I take scrupulous care of them, so that I can resell them later and reinvest the money in next year's books. I ordered the basic ECC, but the YWAM bio's were hard to find, even from my large metro library, so I ended up buying them all later anyway. The science and geography books are all such fabulous resources...I can honestly say I won't be able to part with any of them! The amount of time and effort they spent in selecting only the best books is very apparent; each one is used as efficiently as possible. You will naturally have to overlook a few references to evolution in a couple of them, which is to be expected of any secular reference book. The teacher's manual itself is a vast wealth of information and ideas, and I will be keeping it as well, as I did with MFW K and 1G. They are just too good not to be incorporated into Sunday school classes and the like. So don't be afraid to take the plunge, you will be very impressed with the quality and value of them all.

[Marie]

Author: Marie Hazell
Date: 5/26/2003

Concerning price, one thing to remember is that all of our programs are designed to be used (and re-used) with any number of children. Kindergarten and First Grade are the only levels that require the purchase of another set of student materials ($29.95 or $50) to use with another child.

Consider a family with three children, ages 2,3, and 4. They begin with our Toddler Package, then Preschool Deluxe, and continue to buy every Deluxe package up through sixth grade. They also buy all their Language Arts and Rosetta Stone foreign language from MFW. The only other consumables they need to purchase are two more sets of student materials for kindergarten and first grade. The price for this family of three kids is about $105 a year per child for toddler, preschool, and K-6, using the DELUXE materials. That price includes everything except Math. Once they completely finish a program, they could lower costs even more by selling it to another family -- but most families seem to keep their books!

For a similar family with 4 children, the price would be about $83 per year per child for everything except math.

[Lori in TX]

I am very interested in this curriculum but one thing keeps glaring at me when I look at the catalog; the $100 price tag for the Teacher's Manual. I have used other curriculums and followed their schedule although most of the discussion questions and other filler I just skipped. I would appreciate hearing what others have thought about the Teacher's Manual in other units. I know that a lot of work has gone into making the manual and I firmly believe that a person deserves compensation for their work. I also know that I have to be a good steward of what God has given me and want to make sure I'm making a well-informed decision about curriculum purchases(especially since I seem to have spent money on too many items in the past that I never use). Thanks for your input!

Author: Lori in TX
Date: 4/20/2004

$100 does seam like a lot for a teachers manual, but's it's well worth it!! We are doing ECC and I love the TM, I couldn't do it without it! I do understand about not usually using the TM, I felt that way before using MFW as well, but this is really a must for this curriculum and makes it SO easy to teach and keep track of where you're at, without it you've just got a stack of books and nothing to tie everything together for you, I think you will find it very useful.

[SLR]

Author: SLR
Date: 4/21/2004

worth every penny!!!!

[Kelly-]

Author: Kelly
Date: 4/21/2004

I have to agree with SLR and Lori that the teacher's manual is really worth it. Yes, it's a lot of money, but what I paid for wasn't the paper, the glossy cover, or the wire binding. I paid for the fact that the Hazells took the time to write and test (with the help of some pilot families) the program. So, I paid the $100 for their thinking it out for me. I guess I could've come up with SOMETHING if I purchased all but the teacher's manual, but I am not sure what I would've come up with! Anyway, I consider that I am thinking of the time that they put into it (which is time I don't have to put in to it!) to come up with the plan.

Kelly

[Lucy]

Author: Lucy
Date: 4/21/2004 1:04 pm PDT
Hi,

I have to agree that the manuel is worth it's weight in gold. It keeps you moving and keeps you from bogging down in one place to long. It lays out the days you read and do different activities in Science. And unlike other manuels it is all on one page for the week with a few notes for daily helps. It is awesome!

Blesssings and peace,

Lucy

[another Jennifer in TX:)]

Author: another Jennifer in TX:)
Date: 4/22/2004

I agree with what everyone else said. I would spend a $100 any day to have someone else plan and test a program for me. I also like the fact that they give to a good cause as well!!! Jennifer
PS...what part of TX are you from? I am in Lubbock:)

[Julie in MN]

MFW's teachers guide is a hefty price. I am just trying to figure out what will be best for next year. Thanks for any input and giving me a place to bounce my thoughts off of.

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:20 pm
Just a reminder that your $100 teacher's guide from MFW includes a lot of things you would have to purchase separately from others.

* Schedule for history
* Schedule for science
* Schedule for many other subjects
* Timeline and other necessary materials
* Teacher notes, materials lists, library lists, etc
* All of these for grades 2-8

I like to keep that in mind when I'm looking at costs :o) Best wishes as you try to make the best decisions for your family!
Julie

[cbollin]

Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:54 pm
Agreeing with Julie that the MFW manuals are worth every penny. I think they are great!!! So much planning and so much help with library lists and recommended readings and to have so many subjects and recommendations all planned out. And the materials list each week. Very worth it!!!

MFW has an extensive library list in its teacher’s manual. The book basket reading list will have multiple reading levels. Most books are marked with notes for reading/age level. My oldest is a book worm. She always had lots to read with book basket. And then my slow to average middle child had lots of good stuff to read from book basket too.

Exploration to 1850 and then 1850-MOD include supplemental reading/activity for 2nd and 3rd graders and that is scheduled in the one manual. Additionally, MFW includes a brief overview of all 50 states and a notebooking project for the US Presidents.

For 7th and 8th, MFW provides the lesson plans for Saxon Math, and the Apologia Science.

I don't know if you can get to a convention where MFW will be, but they take all of their product on site to a convention and you can look through it all.

[LSH in MS]

I just ordered ECC and K (both the Deluxe packages as well as the LA & math recommendations for the oldest dc) from MFW this week for the school year. (BTW, they should be here tomorrow and I am still super excited!!! )

I have 4 homeschooling friends and a homeschooling cousin that I talk to regularly. All five are piecing together their own curriculum from used sales or the internet and saving a bunch of money. They didn't come right out and say I was an idiot for spending as much as I did, but I get the feeling they think so. I justified it that ECC is a new 2nd edition and I wasn't going to find that used anywhere and MFW was so helpful in my decision-making process (thus saving me time/hassle) that I gladly gave them my money for the LA and math subjects as well. MFW was also HALF THE PRICE of the other curriculum I was considering!

We are not wealthy by any means (5 dc with one income), but we try to budget well and have no debt other than our mortgage. We buy tons of things used (cars, clothes, furniture, etc.), but I have no desire to make my own lesson plans with anything I find cheap at used curriculum sales. Am I weird or lazy??? I am very willing (and thankful!) to pay MFW to tell me exactly what to do and to send me the needed tools. I really feel the Lord led me here, but I just can't help feeling a little guilty since I didn't take the harder/cheaper route, especially when talking to other frugal homeschooling moms.

Can anyone else relate? How do you handle conversations with those that are astounded at how much you spend on brand new curriculum?

I like supporting MFW by buying new from them. I like the lesson plans that they provide for General science and Saxon so I bought the package from them. I also have 5 children who will use these books so it's worth it to me to purchase new so that it will last as they are passed down over the years.

[mom27dc]

One of the reasons I chose MFW was their mission focus. I really like the fact that I am buying from a company that gives part of their proceeds to overseas mission work. That's why I buy everything I can from MFW. Also, another thing that helps me is to take the total amount I spent and divide it by the number of kids who will be using it.

[cbollin]

Can anyone else relate? How do you handle conversations with those that are astounded at how much you spend on brand new curriculum?

I approach it several ways....

I don't take it personally. They spend the way they want to. And I spend how I want to. Then I do tell them my reasons for buying new from MFW.

First and foremost, I explain that as a long time customer of MFW, I am blessed to support their ministry and hard working staff. So, to me, I feel like that is more important to use God's money to support other homeschoolers who are working to develop curriculum. And MFW's missions fund, God's Word for the Nations, gets supporting. so, I would encourage my friends who spend less on curriculum to be encouraged to use the "savings" to benefit the Kingdom of God in some fashion by either donating to a missionary they know, or if they don't know one, I'd hand them a brochure to God's Word for the nations. Since we're in cyber space.... here's a link...
http://www.mfwbooks.com/missions.htm

The next thing I bring up is that I really love to support homeschooling vendors by buying directly. My dh was out of work for several months this year and I'm still sensitive to spending money. But a few weeks ago when I had the chance to buy some art drawing book, I had the option of "saving" $5 or so from buying from a discounter, or spending the money and buying it directly from the author. I found that that author sent it right away and provided awesome service via email, and at a convention. that author and vendor deserved that $5 for her service.

buying direct is like giving a tip for the quality service that you received. Like you said, it's not just product you bought from MFW, you received services and they are worthy of their wages for service. I would feel like a cheap skate if I used the services of a vendor and didn't pay for it. Even vendors who pay for their message boards and websites --- that's a service. So, that's just me. I want to pay for product and service.

Although I know that MFW would probably help any of their customers on the phone with questions about product, I like that I can buy new to help that.

After all of that, if my real life friends were still wondering why I don't just buy used stuff and donate directly the way I like to..... then I tell them the horror stories that I've encountered from buying used on the internet. Things are missing which means more work for me. Conditions are never as stated. And when you buy used manuals, you might have more trouble buying the right edition of the books to match. And spending less money over all, does not always means wise spending.

You see, for a long time, I was a moderator and list owner on a yahoo group that was all about buying MFW's products on the used market. (it was not affiliated with MFW as a company in any way.) I noticed that my members were willing to spend up to 80% of listed retail. That means for a few extra dollars, they could have bought new from MFW, received prompt shipping (I got so sick and tired of emails about "can you help me find this person who won't email me back?" or this person never sent my stuff. or I can't believe they didn't use 3 layers of bubble wrap and I want a $10 refund)) and have been supporting MFW's missions as well. So, I don't do used internet sales any more. too much trouble.

With MFW's service -- those complaints are not there. You get fast, prompt shipping. and service. I love you MFW!

so, I say that I don't feel guilty from buying new curriculum. I feel blessed by it!

just one very strong opinion out there who is hoping it supports you in your decision to buy new!
-crystal

[hollybygolly]

Crystal's post was right on...I never feel guilty. Money-wise, MFW is one of the most reasonable curriculums out there, especially for what you get, the time you save lesson planning from scratch and how they wisely and generously use our money to further God's Kingdom (isn't that our purpose?)! Also, if you have multiple children (I'll be using each year 3 X's over!!), it doesn't cost much to buy the few consummables needed year to year. I know that with 4 small children, 2 with special needs and therapies, I couldn't homeschool unless I had it planned for me. It's a lifesaver to me and worth every penny!!

[ManyXsBlessed]

I don't feel guilty at all. In fact, I feel guilty when I find it used cheap. I like supporting the company I'm using so they can continue. Plus, I feel My Father's World is saving me a lot of money. I'm coming from Sonlight and WinterPromise.

[cbollin]

For those who are reading this thread and do buy used... don't feel like you have to run and hide or feel "guilty" about it. ((hugs)) And remember, you can always support missions (either MFW's or one of that is dear to your heart) with the money you are not spending on new stuff.

I just don't want anyone to feel guilty or unwelcomed if used is what they have done. and yes, I know that many internet transactions on used stuff can and do go well. I just saw a whole other side of it as a yahoo owner and yeah.....)

-crystal

[Julie in MN]

How do you handle conversations with those that are astounded at how much you spend on brand new curriculum?

You have lots of great answers already! Must've struck a chord here

I just wanted to add --

(1) I've pieced together when I first started homeschooling, & I really think folks are not saving as much as they like to think. So many shipping costs, so many things that sit on your shelves unused, so many extras you weren't sure on, and so many changed minds. Add to this the fact that if you paid yourself by the hour for each hour spent searching, wow, you could have made another $1,000 or two!

(2) I've been homeschooling long enough to have seen several homeschool curriculum publishers just quit. Now the big guys like ABeka or Saxon can afford to take a loss, and they can afford to fight the used market by publishing new editions and such. But the real experts -- the real homeschoolers who write good curriculum -- they often started a series & then quit after one or two volumes. In fact, for my older dd, I found it almost impossible to acquire high school American History, because all the others had had to quit writing after Ancients or Medieval or junior hi stuff. I started purposely finding something "new" to buy from each vendor who had blessed me with something good to use to teach my children.

[TriciaMR]

I don't feel guilty about buying new curriculum, at least the "core." I do buy supplemental stuff - math wrap-ups for math drill, grade-level readers, etc. at used curriculum fairs. But, I like supporting vendors as much as I can without breaking my budget. Now, not every one can afford to buy brand new. I totally understand. That's why there are used curriculum fairs and eBay and craigslist. (We buy tons of stuff for our family on craigslist.) But, we shouldn't be hassling each other over how much anyone spends on curriculum. You spent your money buying a curriculum. Your friends spent time pulling together a curriculum. Either way is fine.

-Trish

[tjkakuk]

I know you have many great answers but I just wanted to chime in quickly since I was one of the others that would piece together my curriculum each year. This is our first year using MFW and this is the first year that I have felt soooo good about the curriculum we bought. Of course there is some planning but nothing like what I have had to do in the past. All the subjects fit together so well. It would take me so much more time to do what they have done. Absolutely worth the money!! I feel so much "lighter".

Also, this morning we read through God Speaks Numanggang and it was good to tell the kids that a big portion of what I paid MFW for the books we got will go back to a great cause such as this.

Loving MFW,
Tami

[doubleportion]

I'm sure this will repeat what some have already said, but this is my experience.

I was just preparing for the next group of weeks in ECC and was struck as I made copies from A Trip Around the World. In my opinion, MFW is the only curriculum I have encountered that really is looking out for those of us who are on one income. I love that when I purchased the deluxe set of ECC this year, that the majority of what I purchased is reusable or reproducible. I will be using this same curriculum again in five years, and then I will only have to buy the student supplements for 7th grade and a few very inexpensive consumable items. So maybe I spent 350 this year. But when I do it again with a 2nd grader and a 7th grader I will spend only 50 dollars THAT year to have everything I need for two kids.

It looks to me, with the way that each years curriculum is put together (unlike many other dealers) that MFW is not about making money or getting you to purchase everything from them and spend HUGE amounts of money EVERY year to school your children. They are about supporting those who want to school their children with a Christ centered curriculum and raise up generations who are working to advance the Kingdom. I never feel guilty about buying from MFW. I know that my funds are being used wisely, supporting brothers and sisters in Christ, supporting God's Word for the Nations, and purchasing me an awesome curriculum that will benefit my family for years to come. There are times when I have not been able to afford to purchase something from MFW. But IF I can and have the choice between spending a few more dollars and getting it from MFW or saving a few dollars and supporting a huge online corporation- I would choose MFW.

We are all accountable to God for how we spend what He has given us and we each have to follow His guiding for our family. So you should feel a peace when He leads you to buy something used or when He leads you to buy something from MFW or other places.

Just a cool testimony on this topic. I wanted to buy SP at the convention this year from MFW but we just didn't have the funds. I was still debating on what to do with my natural born speller following the convention. A week or so later, a friend came up and handed me SP and a new student book and said "could you use this?" She had purchased it used from our convention used book sale and then decided not to use it. She paid 25 for it but refused to take a penny from me for it and never knew that I had wanted it!! God knew what I would need and He provided!!

So all that to say. It all belongs to Him anyway!! He just shows us how to be the stewards of it all.


Edie

[kellybell]

Oh wow, a chance to hop on that old rusty and dusty soapbox of mine that I've not been on in a while.

First off, I don't feel guilty spending $$ at the MFW booth or the MFW website. I thank God that he's once again enabled us to buy new curriculum from MFW. And I know that when we purchase MFW new from MFW, we're supporting mission work! That's cool. And, we're getting a good deal. I don't have to buy LA each year for my elementary aged kids because I bought one ILL and one PLL in 2003 and we're still using it today for the younger set.

(clump clump -- sound of me stepping on that old soapbox)

I used to feel a twinge of guilt when I buy something used (or get it given to me or whatever) that I could've bought new from MFW. But I got over it when I decided that when I did get a good deal on something, I would split the difference with MFW and Gods World for the Nations. Once I got a needed MFW book for $2 used at a book sale. It was a book that sells new at MFW (and elsewhere) for $16. It was the same edition and was in pristine condition. So the difference between what I paid and what MFW charged for the same book was $14. I split that in half and gave half to GWftN. I was basically sharing the blesing God had given me in showing me a needed book for $2. Not everyone is able to do this, but our family is able and we're happy to do so. This year, I got a package from MFW and didn't buy anything used but in years past I got a few used or free things...

Don't worry about how others spend their money as it's really part of their family, not yours. We all should pray about it because God has individual answers to this new-vs-old debate.

If you are seeking God and following God, don't feel guilty!

[angelam]

Thank you all for your support and perspective! (((Hugs))) I think I really did take it personally when a few of the gals tried to give me pointers on how *not* to spend as much next year. They were trying to help, but their tone was just a little condescending, especially when they said the words "boxed curriculum".

I will just continue to be thankful we were able to finance new curriculum this year (my mom suggested we put it on her credit card so she could get gas points/cards and we could get the books in our hands now & just pay her monthly) and pray we can always afford to do so (hopefully next year with our tax refund). I didn't think to mention MFW's missions or that I would be using this stuff over and over again with younger children. Those are very good points! I have also had bad experiences with buying used stuff over the internet so the peace of mind was worth it to me to buy new (I have also already missed all the book fairs this year). If sometime in the future we can't possibly afford to buy new, I will be thankful for used curriculum sales b/c then we are supporting other homeschooling families as well.

I hope this thread didn't offend or make anyone feel bad for how they acquired their curriculum. That was not my intent, please forgive my poor word choices if that is the case. In our home, we almost always buy used items, so sometimes I question if we are being indulgent or good stewards when we buy new. In this case, however, I feel peace for all the reasons mentioned above. Thank you all for helping me find those reasons!!!

[my3boys]

I have many friends who spend very little on curriculum - a lot of them only teach LA and math. I on the other hand spend a lot of money on curriculum and I have received those comments you are talking about. I sometimes feel bad about it (mostly when I have to ask my dh for the money ). Then I remind myself (and dh) that if my three boys were in private school I would be spending two or three times the amount that I currently spend. I also resell whatever I don't feel I will use again and put that money back into the pot for the following year.

[Cyndi (AZ)]

I had a "sorta" similiar experience last week. I met another hs mom at VBS who, when she found out from my dd that we don't use the local "learning academy," she asked me in one of those voices, "Do you know that the school district will pay for all of your homeschooling supplies?" Oh the things I could have said . . . About not actually qualifying as hs status that way, not being able to use Christian curriculum, having to report everything little thing I'm doing . . . But I swallowed my own "words of wisdom" and told her that we had decided not to go that route. After her brief smile, I just decided to start asking her about what types of curriculum she uses, etc., and the conversation never got back to me -- I just threw in a few "good for you's" like we're teaching dd to say when one of her friends is talking about thenselves. No comparing, just "good for you!" Honestly, if we weren't having that talk with our dd so much lately, I probably would have spouted off my mouth and let it get ugly. Everybody thinks their way is the best, to a certain degree. And if they are doing what God directs them to do, then it is best - for them. No reason to feel gulty in that - know God, know peace.

I have similiar reasons for buying from MFW - I want to help support their missions focus, and I want to support their company so that they can continue to provide such an excellent product and great service. When I call the office to ask a question, I know I am a valued customer and they care for me, and I have paid for that service.

When I compare the time it takes me to scan through an already-prepared lesson plan and order the library books -that I don't have to pay for - to what it would take to figure all that out on my own . . . Whew! My time is more valuable than that, and I know I'm getting a proven teaching method with MFW. I have no guilt in buying new - and who doesn't love brand new clean books?!

[Julie in MN]

I have a 1st grader, a 5th grader, and a 7th grader, and this will be our first year to use MFW. (We've been homeschooling for 3 years.) I need a little hand-holding, so to speak, when it comes to figuring out exactly what we need. Do I need to order every single thing all at once? Because that's roughly $700 or so, and that's a LOT of money to me. I don't want to order a bunch of stuff only to find out that we didn't really NEED it after all. But, I don't want to NOT order it and then need it and have to wait on it. So, some of you who have been-there-done-that, can you give me some advice?

Thanks so much!
Beverly

Hi Beverly,
Yes, $700 is a lot for me. But if you think that your 3 kids only need $250 or so each to school all year, that seems very reasonable to me. Plus many of the materials are going to become permanent parts of your home library, more likely than not!

One idea would be to skip all deluxe things and use them for Christmas gifts if you like. The exception might be the first couple of ECC biographies & Kingdom Tales, which I think are important.

Some of the junior hi things might be able to wait until then, too, since you have only a 7th grader. If he's transitioning into jr hi stuff through science and math, then the ECC reports & higher level reading could possibly wait a bit, I don't know. I suppose the 7th grader's science isn't a super-rush if you're comfortable being off-schedule on science over the next several years, but if you want to finish the book in 7th grade then you really need to get started. (For an 8th grader, I'd probably want to get started on everything right away.)

As for the basic packages, I really think you come out ahead just getting them all at once. It's cheaper & Marie really does use each resource fully & completely. Nothing is "read this for a week and you're done with it" except for two books which are inexpensive ones that you do want to have on hand at the right time.

Just one opinion from a user