AHL Discussions - Literature/English Credit

Lucy
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AHL Discussions - Literature/English Credit

Unread post by Lucy » Fri May 02, 2008 9:52 am

Literature selections for High School

In the high school program MFW does not follow the literature schedule in the Notgrass History Books. Of course a child can always read more if time allows. There is a weekly time on the grid that says Reading and is blank. This is for extra/enjoyment reading above the literature that is being read. My daughter was not always able to read both at the same time especially when she read the Iliad.

In the student/teacher manual there is a list of a few books (most are historical) that could be read along with the time period. The Magicians Nephew (part of the Narnia series) is listed as a possible book under creation along with a couple of other books. It is not scheduled but is listed as a choice.

My daughter did not read all historical fiction and she had already read The Magicians Nephew as I am sure many will have. I think Marie feels that if a child has not read any Narnia up to this point it would be a well rounded and good literature choice.

Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

MJ in IL
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Literature Supplement for the high school program?

Unread post by MJ in IL » Sun Jul 13, 2008 3:47 pm

Winni wrote:Does anyone know what the "Literature Supplement" is for the high school program? I was just wondering. Thanks!
OK I don't quite qualify yet as a parent of a high schooler, but...I do have my Lit/Comp supplement for next year. I think I can give you and overview of what's in there.

It includes: a guide for writing, grammar and style; student companions to Gilgamesh, the mythology book and Odyssey; and vocabulary quizzes. It is 200 pages and looks good from my brief look. I hope to look through more of it this upcoming week!
Molly
dd14 enjoying AHL; ds12 & ds10 in RtR & dd5 working through K!
have done K (2X), 1 (2X), ECC, CtG, & 1850MT

cbollin

AHL - Book descriptions

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Jul 26, 2008 6:06 am

In the AHL package, there are a few books I am not sure about:
"Literature Supplement" - can someone please tell me what this is about?
Literature Supplement:
Those are the questions and literature analysis guides for some of the books that are used. They are condensed versions of some other publisher’s literature guides (SMARR). MFW didn’t want to use all of the SMARR guides for each book. Instead of the manuals just saying do this question, omit this one…. MFW worked with the smarr publishers to reprint the guides for MFW’s lesson plans. So the result is the Literature Supplement.

-crystal

TriciaMR
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C.S. Lewis Perelandra for High School

Unread post by TriciaMR » Mon Dec 01, 2008 4:40 pm

amylynn12 wrote:I am getting ready to order this book, as suggested in the manual. I was just wondering if anyone has read this series. For those who have read it, would we be lost reading this one without having read the first book in this series?
I think you would be fine. You would have more "history" about some of the characters, but it is not necessary for reading the book. You get to know the character of the characters soon enough.

I've had them since high school, I think, or at least college. They are definitely different. Some of his descriptions got long. I liked them.

-Trish
Trish - Wife to Phil, Mom to Toni(18), Charlie(14), and Trent(14)
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dhudson
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Unread post by dhudson » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:18 pm

I think it would be more helpful to read the first one. Probably not absolutely necessary but beneficial.

There are three altogether. They are not my favorite CS Lewis but really interesting to dig through and see the meaning behind the story. George MacDonald's are great that way as well.
God Bless,
Dawn
http://www.shiningexamples.blogspot.com
blessed Mom of three - 16, 13 & 13
happy user of MFW since 2002

Julie in MN
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Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Dec 01, 2008 6:37 pm

I read Perelandra in high school & didn't know it was a series! So I lived with just the one :o)

But thanks for the info on the fact that it's a series...
Julie

Edited to add:
I've now listened to both #1 and #2 on audiobook.

#1 sets the scene, with the first travel to another planet, explaining how the main character ends up there, and how the "bad guy" starts out with some wrong motives. But it isn't required reading, kind of like how you don't need to read The Magician's Nephew to follow the story of The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe.

#2 is an analogy of the Garden of Eden, taking place on another planet, complete with temptation. The main character and the bad guy end up traveling from earth into the middle of it all. Like Trish said, Lewis gets wordy at times, but the analogy is clear.

I have read that C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien challenged one another to write the Biblical narrative in popular genres, and that the result was the space trilogy (with Perelandra) and the time travel series (Lord of the Rings ). Not sure if it's true, but both authors enjoy things like creating new languages.
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amylynn12
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Unread post by amylynn12 » Mon Dec 01, 2008 9:36 pm

Thank you all so much for the quick replies & for your help! :) I really appreciate it! :)
Amy in Oregon
Working on:
MFW K: Karly (5)
ECC: Kyla (11) and Khloe (8)
Karissa (14) joining some ECC and a mix of other things. :)
MFW Highschool: Kaylee (17)
Preschool fun with Katie (3)
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MFW-Lucy

Unread post by MFW-Lucy » Wed Dec 03, 2008 9:09 am

Amy you have had some great input to your question. I think this was a great question and a good place to find your answer. I wanted to reassure you that Marie would not have suggested Perelandra as a stand alone if she had felt you needed to read the first book in order to understand it. She recommended this one because of it's relationship to creation and the fall of Adam and Eve, (which you know from the manual, but others reading will not.) If your student likes this one it may create interest to read the other two.

For those who are not familiar with the high school curriculum, a selection of classics is included as part of the English component. It is also highly recommended that the student read one or more book(s) each month. The teacher's manual gives a list of book choices that were chosen because they are excellent books set in the ancient historical period.(This is where Perelandra is listed) It is recommended to chose from this list or from a list of general classics.


Lucy

Lucy
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High School Illiad alternative reading

Unread post by Lucy » Tue Feb 17, 2009 4:07 pm

wendyjo wrote:My son is in 9th grade and really struggles with reading the Illiad....the lesson plans recommend that students who have trouble with this book should read Black ships before Troy....... I plan to let him read this but feel like he will be missing out on the OTHER work that is assigned to those reading the Illiad(daily writing,questions,etc). I was wondering if any of your kids read this book instead and how and if you supplemented it somehow??? Thanks so much for any help!! Wendy
Have you thought about looking into finding this book on cassette or CD? I think this would be a good option and would also help to build his reading skills as he reads along. Your library may have it or you can find it easily on line. Had I realized that this was available when my daughter did the program I may have done that. She struggled through it though. She mostly did not like the fact that the war went on so long. She liked the Odyssey.

This would allow him to still benefit from the great thought provoking questions and biblical connections that Marie makes in the manual. I think that Marie's questions do help them to think about what they are reading and increases understanding of the story line.

Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

DS4home
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HS Ancients-Cat of Bubastes question

Unread post by DS4home » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:16 pm

tiffany wrote:My daughter is on week 6 of the Ancients program and is having trouble reading more than one chap. a day from this book. I am wondering if she is going to run into schedule conflicts down the line with reports or things like that related to the book, or if it is okay to take it at slower pace.
Postby DS4home » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:23 pm
If you let her go at her pace she should keep everything in the Lit. section of the grid together. It does help that the book isn't scheduled every day (at least in my pre-pilot version it wasn't). If that is still the case, I would go ahead and ask her to read every day to try to catch up some, maybe even on weekends too?

High school is definitely a step up in the amount of reading required. I am having somewhat of the same problem with my dd in AHL, she just reads at a slower pace than her older sister did. Some of this is because of outside activities pulling her away also. We are experimenting a bit with her schedule and trying a rotating thing where she picks up the next day where she left off. So if she didn't get her Lit and Science done one day, she starts with that before doing the Bible and History scheduled for the next day. Clear as mud?

Anyway, more than you really wanted to know right?! I'm just trying to keep her education well rounded and avoiding never getting to Science, KWIM? When marching band season is over she should have more breathing room.
I must be feeling chatty tonight, I'm definitely rambling....sorry.

Dawn
Celebrating our 29th Anniversary <3
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tiffany
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Re: HS Ancients-Cat of Bubastes question

Unread post by tiffany » Wed Sep 30, 2009 7:23 pm

Postby tiffany » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:00 pm
Actually, she has done great with all of the other reading. She just really doesn't like this book. We've had a hard time keeping on track with composition because of illness, so we are playing catch-up there. Does anyone ever get caught up? ;) If you're out there let me know. I'd love to meet you! 8[]
Tiffany
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Julie in MN
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Re: HS Ancients-Cat of Bubastes question

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:00 pm

mamaofredheads wrote:If you hurry, Jim Hodges has the audio book download on sale for $15 until midnight tonight. :-) We just downloaded it yesterday. We LOVE Jim Hodges here!!!!

Glenna
Postby Julie in MN » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:38 pm
Hi Tiffany,
We find Henty to be a difficult read at our house. He has such long long looooooong sentences, and so much description. I am amazed at how popular he is in the homeschool world.

That said, the audio option is great. I think our library even has it. Don't be afraid to use audios, if you like them. I recently attended an SAT seminar by Jim Stobaugh and he said that not only do audios speed up the reading for some kids, but they slow it down for those who read too fast to retain very much. They also are good for demonstrating correct vocabulary usage.

Just agreeing that it's not the easiest reading, so your dd isn't alone. But it's high quality and probably a better piece from the ancient era than most of the other options out there. Good luck on it!

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
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cricket1178
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Re: HS Ancients-Cat of Bubastes question

Unread post by cricket1178 » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:19 pm

Postby cricket1178 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 7:58 pm
I love this board! You are all so helpful! I read a lot but don't post often. I hope to change that. I am hsing 2 girls ages 14 and 15 using AHL. I really love the Biblical focus and so do my girls. We are on week 6, too.

My dd's are almost finished with The Cat of Bubastes, but it has been a difficult read for them. I think they are finally enjoying it, but the descriptive writing is a bit much for them at times. They should finish the book soon. I agree with spreading the reading out over the days it isn't scheduled (Friday, Sat., Sun.,). This should help. Wish I had thought of the audio version ;)

Bret Welshymer

Re: HS Ancients-Cat of Bubastes question

Unread post by Bret Welshymer » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:38 pm

Postby Bret Welshymer » Wed Sep 30, 2009 2:16 pm
Nicole,
Two of my children have completed AHL. My son has completed three years of the MFW high school program as part of a pilot group. Besides great academics we have appreciated how the program has helped them to see the world with God's heart and mind in a much greater way. By using MFW high school my kids have been asked to develop their critical thinking by contrasting and comparing the history and literature they are studying with what they are learning in the Bible. By working through the high school program in this way they have developed a stronger Biblical worldview. They are growing in their ability to assess what they read, hear, and watch from the perspective of the Bible. Now that the kids are older (age 14 and up) and have the ability to think more critically, we want to help them to evaluate both current culture and past culture from the viewpoint of the Bible. Reading and thinking through the message of a book like Epic of Gilgamesh is part of this process. When the culture of the ancient world and culture of the modern world view sexuality so differently from the Bible, we were grateful for an academic assignment that helped our children to reconcile this reality with the teaching of the Bible.

I hope this perspective is helpful as you continue through the high school program.

Julie in MN
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Epic Of Gilgamesh help please...

Unread post by Julie in MN » Wed Sep 30, 2009 8:46 pm

Nicoleab2 wrote:We are using the High school ancients. It has been wonderful! My daughter is really growing and enjoying the responsibility.

My questions are about The Epic of Gilgamesh. Why is it necessary? I myself am not familiar with this reading, so was just wanting to know from some of you who are, if you could tell me what is the importance of studying this. Is the 3rd question on page 74 in the section 2.5 Critical Thinking really necessary for a 9th grader? She is sensitive to this topic and we are skipping it, but just wondered if there was something major we are going to be missing out on.

Thank-you for your help.
Nicole
Nicole,
I haven't used AHL yet, so I'm just going to answer with general thoughts based on my previous experience with older dd & other programs I've seen.

- Gilgamesh is studied in almost all "ancient" literature or history studies.

- I think one of the main reasons is that there are so few pieces of original literature from this time period (besides the Bible, of course). It dates to Sumeria and probably the earliest civilizations on record, i.e. after the flood.

- It's not only ancient, but it's fairly widespread & significant in terms of territory & length of time it was carried on verbally even before it was written down.

- It's one of the many non-Biblical pieces that corroborates Noah's flood.

- I believe it actually corroborates even more of the Bible, or at least demonstrates historical consistency (I have only read excerpts, myself).

- It's one of the ancient writings which at first were passed off as myth, similar to the Trojan War and the Old Testament battles. Now, as a group, these ancient writings are beginning to show evidence of being fact. In a sideways sort of way, that corroborates the truth (or at least the possible truth) of Biblical events such as Jericho.

- Having a solid background of world literature beginning with the ancients creates a well-read student with an excellent education. When other scholar type folks give speeches & make references to famous pieces of literature, our students will understand those references. They can use those references, themselves, in their writing.

- And because they have studied the Bible alongside of Gilgamesh & such, our students will be able to respond with a level head when professors and other students try to put the Bible in a category with these writings and claim there is no difference. I would almost guarantee there will be a time when someone will tell your child that the stories of the Bible, including the references to sexuality and slavery and so forth, are no different than the stories of all other cultures. How wonderful that our students will be prepared to defend their faith in a logical and knowledgeable way.

Just my wandering thoughts on the matter.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Jenn in NC
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Re: Epic Of Gilgamesh help please...

Unread post by Jenn in NC » Thu Oct 01, 2009 9:55 am

Julie in MN wrote:- And because they have studied the Bible alongside of Gilgamesh & such, our students will be able to respond with a level head when professors and other students try to put the Bible in a category with these writings and claim there is no difference. I would almost guarantee there will be a time when someone will tell your child that the stories of the Bible, including the references to sexuality and slavery and so forth, are no different than the stories of all other cultures. How wonderful that our students will be prepared to defend their faith in a logical and knowledgeable way.
Great point! Good to think ahead about things like that.
mommy to four boys & two girls... and another boy on the way :)
completed K, 1st, ADV, ECC, CTG and RTR
2009--2010 Enjoying Exploration to 1850

Nicoleab2
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Re: Epic Of Gilgamesh help please...

Unread post by Nicoleab2 » Thu Oct 01, 2009 10:39 am

Thank-you all so much for sharing your thoughts.
I appreciate the time you took to give me some things to ponder.
Blessings~
Nicole

Julie in MN
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Location: Minnesota

AHL - Literature and Composition Supplement

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Feb 14, 2011 2:58 pm

Merry wrote:Would this have any benefit for a student who was not doing AHL? Is it mainly a reference book like Writer's Inc, or are there assignments within the book for a student to work through? Thanks! Merry :-)
Hi Merry,
I think the first half of the guide could be helpful for any student? The second half will only be helpful if you plan to study the particular pieces of literature (Gilgamesh, Bulfinch, and Odyssey).

Here's a description I recently wrote for someone on another forum [edited for clarity]. Maybe it will help you visualize the lit supplement?
  • We're using the first year of MFW high school. The lit supplement is an adaptation of the Smarr ancients year, if that helps.

    The first section of the book is based on Smarr's "Guide to Critical Writing, Grammar, and Style" and includes instruction on writing as well as the fine points of grammar. The writing is mostly the argumentative essay, and gives detailed instructions on that. As for the grammar, this is a sample from Smarr in a different year that MFW does NOT use, but it's a general idea of what a Smarr grammar lesson looks like: http://www.smarrpublishers.com/samplew.pdf I like the part at the very end, where the student examines their OWN writing.

    Then there are three literature guides: Gilgamesh (Smarr version), Bulfinch's Mythology, and Odyssey. Those lessons include vocab, questions, and an occasional bit of commentary. Again, this sample is NOT used by MFW, but if you scroll down to pages 4-5, you will see a typical Smarr literature assignment: http://www.smarrpublishers.com/samplettc.pdf

    I also think it's important to realize that some of the English credit is written by Marie Hazell and included in the main lesson plans, including:
    - Instructions for reading Proverbs and completing a project
    - Instructions for reading the bulk of Psalms (some verses are spread throughout the year's Bible study, but there is a large chunk read for English at one point) and studying the different types of poetry in psalms, including writing a few of the types (this is coordinated with a Notgrass lesson)
    - A guide for reading and responding to the Iliad
    - probably more stuff I'm forgetting, and I don't know what's past week 21

    Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Literature in AHL

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:49 pm

HiddenJewel wrote:What are the literature assignments like in the high school AHL? Are literary terms taught or should that be knowledge the student already has? I have looked at the samples but didn't see any that showed the set up of or actual assignments from the Lit and Comp supplement.

Thank you.
this is a piece of what you are asking...

Many literary terms are covered in mfw recommendations prior to high school. The Progeny Press guides cover that. So, much of that is assumed. Other lit assignments with specific terms will define it as needed.

Lit and comp supplement will have basics of vocabular, recall questions, and critical thinking (analysis) questions. There are some vocab quizzes, and essay writing and other similar things. The Litcomp supplement in AHL is based on SMARR guides (mfw received persmission to modify for some of it). Maybe someone has a link to those samples even if they aren't the exact guides in AHL because they will give you a better feel for it.

I think this might be part of it? at least on the composition and grammar part? I'm not able to say with much detail what was modified and not. But it doesn't matter. It gives a good feel.
http://www.smarrpublishers.com/T-2400-W.pdf

and this is a sample of a SMARR lit guide that is not used in AHL (and I don't think in MFW at all), but again the structure of the sample shows a representative sample of what the smarr lit things are like
http://www.smarrpublishers.com/samplettc.pdf

-crystal

cbollin

AHL literature Supplement

Unread post by cbollin » Tue Sep 06, 2011 12:54 pm

Michele in WA wrote:Can someone please tell me how the literature guide is set up? Is it set up like the lesson book, in that the student does it independently? Does it go by days and weeks... on Monday do this, on Tuesday do this, etc? And, is it a complete language arts curriculum in itself? Thanks!
In AHL, the Lit/Comp Guide is a MFW adaptation of the SMARR lit guides.
maybe from Julie's post in the archives it works?
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... arr#p70945

There is more to the English credit than just the writing and critical analysis and grammar review in the supplement. So, I lean toward saying it is probably not a “complete English credit” as written, as it is not intended to be as such. It’s just that the questions and essay writing assignments and rubrics, vocab quizzes, daily work in the literature, and all of that are large enough that need to be printed separately or the manual would be very large. It certainly is a major part of the English credit though. don't get me wrong on that..

If you go the sample of AHL
http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... sample.pdf

and look at the week, you’ll see in the English part of the grid, which pages you do from the supplement. In that sense, treat it like any other package book. The AHL grid tells you what to do on which day.

-crystal

MFW-Lucy

AHL: Substitute for Cat of Bubastes?

Unread post by MFW-Lucy » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:21 pm

Sue G in PA wrote:My next question is for Cat of Bubastes. Well, ds has already read (well, listened to on Audio) Cat of Babastes recently. We all listened to it, as a family, actually. I don't remember what I had my dd14 read in place of this book when she did AHL last year so if anyone has any suggestions (for either book), that would be great.

I thumbed through the guide and thought a PP study of The Golden Goblet would be just the thing for my ds14. He isn't the voracious reader that dd15 is and I think The Golden Goblet will be much more his speed. He cringes at the thought of C of B again. It moved rather slowly for him and we used to joke about how the book was practically over before we even heard about a silly cat! I enjoyed it...b/c I love Jim Weiss's storytelling and I thought the book was interesting. Ds...not so much. ;)

Mara will probably be too "girlie" for him. Dd enjoyed that one but ds, probably not. Amazing how 2 children can be so entirely different. C of B is only scheduled for 2 weeks.
Hi Sue,

Just weighing in on the book sub for The Cat of Bubastes--I do not not think you need to use the Progeny Press Guide for this study as no guide is used while studying The Cat of Bubastes, accept for the few questions answered at the end . The student also has a writing assignment both weeks, so there is plenty of Engish to cover the time for the week. It may help to understand that this book was primarily included as a historical fiction to help give students a better picture of Egyptian life. Using another book will meet the same purpose.

Hope this helps as you are planning!
Sue G in PA wrote:Lucy, thanks for weighing in. You said exactly what I was thinking and discussing with my dh. He mentioned how much he disliked CofB himself b/c it moved so slowly. I told him I enjoyed it b/c it provided such a vivid and descriptive picture of Ancient Egyptian life! I figured that was why the book was included and therefore felt comfortable subbing in another historical fiction book of that time period to accomplish the same goal. :) So, the PP guide will not be necessary, you think? Ok...sounds good to me. I was going to get it anyway, but now perhaps not!
I thought the suggestion earlier to use the guide as needed was a good idea. If you see that the book and the writing assignments are not enough during those weeks you may add part of the guide (vocab., some of the questions?) Another idea is to have the student write a short summary of each chapter or keep a list of unfamiliar words while reading each chapter to look up later. English should take about 1 hour each day for an average reader. If the student is a faster reader this may take less time. During this 3 weeks that includes reading The Cat of Bubastes and the writing assignments.

Lucy

Julie in MN
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MFW AHL question re Illiad, Odessy and Gilgamesh

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:03 pm

JOYFULFARMGIRL wrote:I'm still new here and have virtually decided about going with AHL for our 9th grader. I have even started trying to get a few of the books. One thing that concerns me though is the level of violence and s*x innuendo or references in these books. I have not read them yet and DD is very sensitive about these topics.

I saw this in another old post last night and wondered what the question was the OP was referring to....
Nicoleab2 wrote:My questions are about The Epic of Gilgamesh. Why is it necessary? I myself am not familiar with this reading, so was just wanting to know from some of you who are, if you could tell me what is the importance of studying this. Is the 3rd question on page 74 in the section 2.5 Critical Thinking really necessary for a 9th grader? She is sensitive to this topic and we are skipping it, but just wondered if there was something major we are going to be missing out on
I wondered how the versions used by MFW handle the graphic violence and s*x matter for a daughter who gets very troubled by that sort of thing. And...what is the question that the OP of the post I was trying to quote referring to? I just want to make sure the questions from the curriculum aren't troubling in and of themselves. Yet I do trust in the intentions of MFW being the best.

Thanks for your patience!
JFG
Hi JFG,
I'll start the conversation.

I opened up my son's supplement from 9th grade (he's heading into 11th now). He answered all 24 comprehension questions for that section (those are not something we did in elementary, but they start to be useful in high school when kids are reading harder sentences and you aren't sure they are catching on). Then we probably either skipped or orally discussed the 3 thinking questions, because nothing is written there. The third thinking question says, "Pagan worship centers on the worship of reproduction and s*x. How is s*x prominent in The Epic of Gilgamesh? What role does it have in the Scriptures, particularly in the Song of Solomon?" So that was one question out of 27.

The thing that happens in high school is the kids are reading the Bible all the way thru, and they are comparing it to literature of the times -- which other people in college may tell them is the *same* but by comparing they can say with certainty that it is *not the same.*

Now, don't worry, the kids don't read the original Gilgamesh. I actually got an audio from our library, because my son likes audiobooks, and fortunately I pre-listened, because, well, blush &) &) &) ! The Smarr version that AHL uses is highly tamed down, but it is still a high school version, not an elementary version. I think folks who have read elementary versions can easily be led to think that the violent and personal scenes in the Bible are identical to those in other ancient literature, but when you read more of the "real" thing you will see that they are quite different in tone, purpose, and truth.

My son was ready for this kind of apologetics in 9th grade. He does *not* like to read anything that I warn him may be "embarrassing." However, he has been reading the entire Bible and does live in the real world, etc., so he is not completely unaware of these topics.

Also, if my memory isn't faulty, I think there is just one main racy section in the story (toned down in the Smarr version), and I think I read that aloud with my son if I'm not mistaken. Not so much because of content, but because he was an early 9th grader who does not like to read (except the Bible).

Okay, and then the other reason to read Gilgamesh might have been on the post you read, but it is one of the earliest known pieces of literature and has an amazingly familiar flood story, with many similar details down to the number of sons and their names. That lends truth to the Biblical history of all mankind having common ancestors that share the same history back to the time of the flood. Here's my son's final paragraph in his essay on Gilgamesh (it's only week 5 in 9th grade, so it's a little casual):
  • Well seeing that there are two stories of ancient history almost exactly alike, we can most definitely believe the story is true. Both stories had one guy to do the job, both stories had a world wide flood and a boat, and both stories had Noah or Utnapishtim save all the animals! But really, which one is more practical? The Epic of Gilgamesh is just another thing that can prove the Bible is true, but Epic of Gilgamesh just got real twisted up.
But in the end, you can skip it if you want.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

cbollin

Re: MFW AHL question re Illiad, Odessy and Gilgamesh

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:35 pm

JOYFULFARMGIRL wrote:And...what is the question that the OP of the post I was trying to quote referring to? I just want to make sure the questions from the curriculum aren't troubling in and of themselves. Yet I do trust in the intentions of MFW being the best.
I'm so glad Julie had some time to share... It's important to get a range of answers. Julie is teaching youngest son in high school. I have oldest daughter in high school. and yes.. I'll join a conversation while my youngest is making pizza....

anyway... I've often wondered if people wondered about that archived post without the question. I remember at the time, neither Julie nor I had the lit/comp guide to look it up and the answer that Bret shared was general for the whole topic of handling s*xuality. (which depending how you type on this forum gets filtered) thanks Julie for posting that. Hopefully that helps to understand. I remember when I got my AHL package.. I actually turned to find that old post and look it up. I saw the actual question my first reaction was I guess everyone is very different in comfort levels. I didn't have a problem even though my teen preferred to hide under the covers while we talked. With those critical thinking questions... they dont' have to write answers to them and you can skip any you want.. Or, on the other hand, if you need more essay topics, there you go.. a compare/contrast essay.

yes,.. it can be skipped... but in the end, even if they blush a little while talking to you... what a wonderful opportunity to communicate with your older child your values on the topic. It's not the only time in MFW you'll get to talk about this topic, or marriage. Most teens blush a bit when talking with their parents at this stage on stuff. I've found that with MFW questions... it's always how does this line up with scripture? and let's talk about the consequences of stuff like this outside of God's design. from my daughter's perspective.. she didn't feel it was "smut" reading or all R rated... she jokes a little but says "well.. in mfw they have us read R rated book.. .It's called The Bible!"

-crystal

JOYFULFARMGIRL
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 11:40 pm

Re: MFW AHL question re Illiad, Odessy and Gilgamesh

Unread post by JOYFULFARMGIRL » Sat Jul 28, 2012 3:14 pm

Julie and Crystal,
Thank you both! I sent you both a private email.
JFG

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Would this be okay for MFW AHL Lit. questions??

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sun Aug 12, 2012 12:10 am

4littlehearts wrote:When it comes to the questions in the Smarr portion of the lit. guide, have any of you had your children answer the questions orally instead of writing them all out of paper? I am still debating whether I am going to use AHL this year, but do not want to bog my child down. She is a slow reader and gets overwhelmed very easily. I am trying to find a way to make the lit. portion more palatable for her. If we use AHL, I already had planned on using many audio books for the lit. selections and Bible reading too.
I think oral questions are just fine. After all, you're in the ancients, and wasn't all education pretty much oral back then LOL. If you're worried about records and grades, you could just jot something about the answers as you talk, or jot down "discussed orally" in the book. Also, I always like to remember that during class discussions, every student is not asked to answer every question correctly, and your student won't have as much time to look up answers, so don't be too hard on your student if she needs prompting on some of them (maybe this won't be an issue for you, but it often is for me, because I somehow expect more when I'm right there).

Audiobooks can help, too. That's one of the suggestions in the manual. The manual also has alternatives for the Iliad, if you really don't want to do that one.

Not sure how many other kids you have to work with, but a few other things I've done to help my son, who reads well enough but just dislikes it so much that he doesn't let the info into his brain sometimes:
- I've "annotated" books for my son (penciled in where I want him to stop and summarize what he understands in that section, starting very small, or penciled in reminders about different characters, etc.).
- I've read aloud to him myself.
- We've done the Bible readings together as a family, sometimes in the evenings.
- I've subbed a few things here and there, while still retaining the exposure to the ancient literature for comparison to the Bible.

MFW provides a solid structure, making any adjustments much easier than starting it all from scratch. I also think it allows you to let your student surprise you as she matures over the year(s).
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

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