AHL Discussions - Literature, Tips for the Iliad??

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Julie in MN
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Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

AHL Discussions - Literature, Tips for the Iliad??

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Jan 18, 2010 12:33 am

Teresa in TX wrote:Dd starts reading this at the beginning of week 20, and we just finished week 18. I'm trying to get a jump-start for myself. I have read children's versions of this and portions of it (but not all) in high school, and am wanting to either read ahead of her (best choice) or along with her and try to get my mind around it. It's daunting to me for some reason. I have read the sparknotes on book 1 of the Iliad and do realize that this particular version is the easiest to read, but as someone with some issues with ADD herself, I have a hard time following fully. It is understandable but sometimes confusing?? Also, our library has the audio version of this but not THIS audio version. I can't remember off-hand which one it is. I do like the questions that go along with it and the daily writing that is done. I guess I'm just wanting us to get as much out of it as we can and am wanting either a heads up on a good way to get in there or an encouraging word that I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill. ;) Thoughts?
I'm just feeling gabby because not many are around on the weekend & your post looked lonely :)

It sounds like you're doing a great job of jumping ahead of the game. With the Sparknotes summaries, did you also look at the character list and the main themes/recurrent symbols? I find those details generally the most helpful when I'm tutoring kids in literature.

The audio is also a great idea. Even if you don't remember every detail, I would think you'll pick up a general sense of the story when told by a good narrator via the audiobook?

As you listen, you could use whatever methods help you remember what you hear -- notes, highlighters, character cheat sheet, etc.

One thing I'm thinking is that the Iliad is easier to understand if you know some of the Aeneid. My memory is a little hazy, but aren't some of the most famous parts of the Trojan War (the Trojan Horse, for instance), left out of the Iliad? I wonder if reading a summary of the related topics in the Aeneid, or one of the summaries that combines both the Aeneid and the Iliad, would help wrap your brain around it? (Just a summary, since reading too much of the Aeneid would likely get you even more confused.) Or maybe you already got that info in the children's version you read (such as the Children's Homer)?

I haven't read it all myself yet, but I would think that totally absorbing it might take years. Hopefully you will get a solid understanding of the book even if you can't follow every detail.

I'll be in your position next year, so looking forward to reading other replies. And remember to share how it goes once you get thru it!
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Teresa in TX
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Tips for tackling The Iliad??

Unread post by Teresa in TX » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:21 am

Julie, thanks!! I'm glad you answered my lonely post. ;) I did pick up the audio cassettes on Saturday, but it's 16 HOURS of listening pleasure!!! It's also the retelling by Fitzgerald rather than Fagles. We'll see. I've also pulled out some of my children's mythology books and am going to run through those a bit.

Good idea on the characters and symbols. There is a list of some of that on Sparknotes and on a couple of other resources I found online. My biggest problem?? I really do not have time for this!!! I'm finding that when I'm really keeping up with reading ahead and knowing the material, reading the bible and answering the questions, doing the discussions, and grading all my 9th grader's work; doing a good job with my 6th grader and K child; going to the library and buying supplies for their projects, delivering them to their music classes, sports, church, etc., that winds up being my life!! What am I going to do when I have the baby???
Teresa, Mom of 5: 15yo dd, 12yo ds, 7yo ds, 5yo ds, and 1yo ds

4th year with MFW
Using:
MFW 1st w/ 7yo ds
MFW RtR w/ 7th grade ds
MFW World History with 10th grade dd
So far we have used: ECC, 1850-Present, CTG, RtR, High School Ancients and MFW K

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Tips for tackling The Iliad??

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Jan 18, 2010 9:29 am

Teresa in TX wrote:My biggest problem?? I really do not have time for this!!! I'm finding that when I'm really keeping up with reading ahead and knowing the material, reading the bible and answering the questions, doing the discussions, and grading all my 9th grader's work; doing a good job with my 6th grader and K child; going to the library and buying supplies for their projects, delivering them to their music classes, sports, church, etc., that winds up being my life!! What am I going to do when I have the baby???
Teresa,
With all that's going on in your family, maybe I should have responded to the second part of your original post, "or an encouraging word that I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill," rather than the first part, "I guess I'm just wanting us to get as much out of it as we can."

Your daughter will be reading the ENTIRE Old Testament! That's a feat that most adults I know have ever accomplished. You aren't skimping on academics if she doesn't catch every nuance of the Iliad. MFW has used this program with lots of real kids by now, and they will guide you as to what is "enough" when you're reading Homer. They have done the leg work, and you can enjoy the results. If you feel led or enjoy digging in now, do what you have energy for. But when you need to stop, have peace that it is enough. No one can absorb everything the first time through a book like the Iliad, anyways. Save your energy for worldview conversation with dd.

There, did I do the second part, "an encouraging word that I may be making a mountain out of a mole hill"?
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Lucy
Posts: 442
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:37 am

Re: Tips for tackling The Iliad??

Unread post by Lucy » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:02 pm

Dear Teresa,

We have 2 children in high school at this time. If either my husband or I had to read all that they were reading we would not have time. You do not have to read everything that they read. The Iliad is particularly difficult and this is why instead of vocabulary and comprehension questions the student writes a daily summary of what occurred to help them comprehend what is going on each day. I read a little of it aloud to my daughter, but mostly my daughter read it by herself. I would ask her somedays to tell me what she read about and at the end of each week I would ask her thoughts about what she was reading. My husband is currently overseeing my kids homeschooling and this is what he is doing with my son this year as well.

We have a basic idea about the story. I agree with Julie that if you feel you want to get an idea read the first part of the Childern's Homer or another book that would give you an overview of the story.

You have lots going on in your home and you do not need to feel like you have to do high school with your daughter. Reading the Bible and discussing that each week (or every couple of day if time allows) I think is the best time we can invest with our children. In your weekly meetings check to see that she is keeping her summary and ask her what stuck out to her or what she thinks of what is happening in the book.

I hope this frees you from feeling you have to read everything. In a perfect world it would be great if we could, but in the real world we need to look at what we can do and do that the best we can (I am saying this to myself as well :) ).

Lucy
wife to Lee and mom to Twila 18 (girl) and Noel 16(boy). Happy MFW user since 2002.

LA in Baltimore
Posts: 120
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 7:01 pm

Re: Tips for tackling The Iliad??

Unread post by LA in Baltimore » Mon Jan 18, 2010 5:41 pm

Lucy wrote:I hope this frees you from feeling you have to read everything. In a perfect world it would be great if we could, but in the real world we need to look at what we can do and do that the best we can (I am saying this to myself as well :) ).
I loved all of Lucy's response, but this was my favorite!
I happen to be an AVID reader, but after about 5/6th grade with my first one I realized it just wasn't possible to read everything the children were. Remember, we have lots of other hats to wear besides teacher (Mother, Wife, Daughter of the King ;) ...Neighbor, Sister,...) Reading a summary is always helpful and when time allows I use the summer to read the following year's books that I really want to have a handle on. Do your best, keep as current as you can with their Bible, and leave the rest with God! :-)
Only by His grace,
LA in Baltimore
Currently enjoying Rome to the Reformation
Graduated oldest May 2010, Three more to go!

Teresa in TX
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: Tips for tackling The Iliad??

Unread post by Teresa in TX » Mon Jan 18, 2010 8:42 pm

Thanks everyone for the responses!! I haven't kept up with all of her reading this year other than the Bible. Actually, my pregnancy-related stuff & dh being out of town for work M-F each kept me from being as diligent before Christmas as I wanted to be. We're getting in a good groove with AHL, and the Iliad is one of those books that is big to me, so I had wanted to read it and the Odyssey if possible. I'm thinking I will read through some overviews, plus we'll be doing Children's Homer in 2 weeks for CTG anyway. I was just wanting to be of help to her if she needed it by knowing her material. I definitely didn't do the Greek & Roman mythology in the fall with her, and she did fine with it, so I'll just pray about it get what I can beforehand.

Thanks to all of you for all the encouraging words!!
Teresa, Mom of 5: 15yo dd, 12yo ds, 7yo ds, 5yo ds, and 1yo ds

4th year with MFW
Using:
MFW 1st w/ 7yo ds
MFW RtR w/ 7th grade ds
MFW World History with 10th grade dd
So far we have used: ECC, 1850-Present, CTG, RtR, High School Ancients and MFW K

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Books on cd for Iliad and Odyssey

Unread post by Julie in MN » Thu Feb 25, 2010 6:50 pm

tiffany wrote:Anyone tried the coordinating cd's for these selections for high school? My daughter is halfway through the Iliad, and I thought I might give her a break on the Odyssey by purchasing the book on cd. I checked into it for the Iliad but thought it a bit costly, so I skipped it, but I started thinking today that I will have other kids that can use them too. I checked BN. I guess I could get my discount if I ordered them into the store, unless that counts for books only.
Tiffany,
No direct experience but we use a lot of audiobooks here, both for school and for dh and I. Some general experience -

- if you're really tight on cash, used cassettes are often very cheap (online, at library sales, at used bookstores)

- libraryanded is a good source for discounted audiobooks, as is Jim Stobaugh's website & vendor booth (slightly more expensive than libraryanded, but different books & always discounted); neither seems to carry Homer but they carry other MFW high school literature

- Amazon has a site called Audible.com and sometimes they have a very cheap downloadable version; there are also some free audiobook downloads online at places like LibriVox

- the Odyssey should be much easier to find compared to the Iliad, as it seems most folks like the Odyssey better or something

- you usually need to hang onto your book even when using an audiobook, because the book is easier to search, review, see illustrations, etc


Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

Teresa in TX
Posts: 74
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Re: books on cd for Iliad and Odyssey

Unread post by Teresa in TX » Fri Feb 26, 2010 7:52 am

Dd is reading the Iliad right now. At the outset, I borrowed an audio version from our library. Dd ditched it pretty quickly and just went to reading the book. For her, listening to it at first helped her to get the feel of the story and then to realize that she could understand the book itself without the audio. After that, she didn't really want to waste her time on it anymore, and the Iliad has been much less of a mountain than I had initially thought. Her summaries are good. I say all that because, on our end, it wouldn't be a good investment, for her anyway...I'll cross that bridge when I get to it with the others.

Have you considered looking for a version to load onto your ipod or mp3? I googled when I was looking and found quite a few. I think it was more reasonably priced than purchasing it in cd form. Other than that, I have no more info. Be careful if you check it from the library. Ours were cassettes, and just as I feared, our player ate one of the cassettes in a $50 set, so I don't know how the library is going to charge us. :~
Teresa, Mom of 5: 15yo dd, 12yo ds, 7yo ds, 5yo ds, and 1yo ds

4th year with MFW
Using:
MFW 1st w/ 7yo ds
MFW RtR w/ 7th grade ds
MFW World History with 10th grade dd
So far we have used: ECC, 1850-Present, CTG, RtR, High School Ancients and MFW K

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: books on cd for Iliad and Odyssey

Unread post by Julie in MN » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:05 pm

Teresa in TX wrote:Be careful if you check it from the library. Ours were cassettes, and just as I feared, our player ate one of the cassettes in a $50 set, so I don't know how the library is going to charge us. :~
Fixing a cassette -- tape it together & you just miss a few words. Fixing a CD my grandson has stepped on -- haven't figured that one out yet. I guess I've turned into one of those old ladies saying, "Things were better in the good ol' days..."

I hope your library is good to you!
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

DS4home
Posts: 266
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 11:32 pm

AHL- Iliad-daily responses

Unread post by DS4home » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:12 pm

mdfriederich wrote:My dd is entering week 20 which begins the reading of the Iliad and I have a question for those who are in it or have perhaps finished it already. The question relates to the daily written response. On Day 1 the explanation is given that the student is to express their thoughtful response to the day's reading in several sentences. The directions read "What do you notice about the characters, their moral values, their actions, or their motives? . . share your thoughts and your interpretations." That makes sense to me. Then on each day's student notes, there are often additional questions which is fine, but it prompted me to want to clarify the instructions.

Should the student focus on the questions for thought in the daily notes as the starting point for his/her written responses OR the "Day 1" guidelines? Either or both?

Thanks so much,
Diana
Well, here's my take on it. I see it as a combination of both. The first day of instructions are giving you an overall picture of what should be happening. Each day after that is giving you more directive guidance with their statements and questions to help the student know where to begin. It gives those first day questions a specific character to apply the thinking toward, etc.

A lot of what I see in the daily notes is a brief summary of the chapter more than questions that need to be answered directly. It's giving an example of what a summary may look like - without telling the student "this is a summary", or "this is what you should be writing". Remember the notes are written to the student. I think they have the feel of someone sitting beside them talking about the reading with them and asking a few leading questions to get them thinking in the right direction so that they can then write a good response in their journal.

I found these notes to be a God-send for a book of this level. I can't be the expert Lit. teacher, helping her read through this book, when I have 3 other kids to focus my teaching on. :) I am so glad that when the Hazels wrote this high school curriculum, they wrote it directly to the student! They really do hold their hand through the tougher parts, so we can train ourselves to start letting go ;) I found that first year of high school to be a confusing/learning time for mom. Trying to figure out what exactly does "independent learning" look like. I'm just so use to being the teacher, it's hard sometimes to let the curriculum be that for her now. But once we all figured out our roles, it's been sooooo good :-)

Sorry for getting rambly on you. I guess I went a little beyond your question. Maybe that was more for the others who might be reading ;) Be encouraged though, that you are further along than my dd! I won't even mention what week she is in &)

Dawn
Celebrating our 29th Anniversary <3
Amber(HS Grad, Married), Carmen(HS+Col Grad, Married), Nathan(HS Grad, College), & Bethany(10th).

2019: WHL for the 3rd time!
Completed the MFW cycle: Pre K-yr.5, AHL(pilot), WHL, US Hist.1

Julie in MN
Posts: 2925
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 3:44 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: AHL- Iliad-daily responses

Unread post by Julie in MN » Tue Mar 09, 2010 1:42 pm

mdfriederich wrote:My dd is entering week 20
...
we obviously look like we are going to year-round school at our pace.
Just to let you know, we follow a local public school calendar and there are 14 weeks left in the school year (although that includes a week off for spring break and a couple of other days off). You may not be as behind as you "feel"!

Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

MFW-Lucy

Re: AHL- Iliad-daily responses

Unread post by MFW-Lucy » Thu Mar 11, 2010 11:36 am

Dear Diana,

I really liked Dawn's thinking about this being a way to help kids think about what is being read and it is like having a teacher talking with them about the book.

Whenever there is a (see notes) it is always best to read these first. In the case of the Iliad they are meant to give the student some help in understanding the reading or to give a christian perspective. Some students may like to read the information before and after the reading each day to help them understand the content better.

These notes and any questions in the notes are not meant to be part of the daily written response, although it may prompt the student to share his thoughts as he summarizes the days reading after each reading. The questions may also help guide some students in writing their summary.

If you have further thoughts or questions, please let me know.

Lucy

mdfriederich
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue May 09, 2006 8:54 pm

Re: AHL- Iliad-daily responses

Unread post by mdfriederich » Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:13 pm

Thanks to all you responders. :-) I especially appreciate your explanation Dawn. My dd has gotten through a couple days and it seems to be fleshing out just fine. She seems to be doing ok with the material and responding to it.

As an aside, I bought the audio book also. After reading through line 76 she came to me and said, "Where is that audio book?" Now she is enjoying listening to it while reading along in the book. Where the audio abridges the book, she is doing that reading on her own. I also bought a bag of milk chocolate eggs that are "Iliad" time only. "A spoonful of 'chocolate' helps the 'Iliad' go down." Just thought I'd share some tips on how it is working for out for us.

Diana
First Wife to Matt since 1990, Mom to dd (16), ds (14), and dd (12); Have used ECC, CtG, RtR, Exp to 1850, AHL, and WHL in '10-'11.

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