Family - Grades 2 to 8...isn't that an awfully large span?

[kellybell]

I'll soon be ordering Adventures for next year, but as I think ahead I have another question. The "family cycle" spans from grade 2 to 8...but isn't that an awfully large range? How does this work so the younger kids aren't overwhelmed and the older ones are adequately challenged?

On a similar topic, I noticed that one of the spine texts is listed as for 5th grade (Exploring Am History). Will a 1st and 2nd grader be able to track with that? Is the entire book used or just excerpts?
Thanks in advance :)

Well, we've done ECC, CTG, and RTR and have had no problems with "grade levels." I keep in mind that each child will take away what his or her little brain can understand (and the little ones will surely hear it all again in a few years).

Please remember that each child does his or her own math and LA. That takes care of the level problem for those subjects. Similarly, seventh graders and up have their own science (but my seventh grader likes doing the elementary stuff too!).

For history and Bible time, I direct more questions such as "what do you think that meant?" or "what would you've have done?" Things like that.

For art, I don't ask my young ones to do God and the History of Art so they do their own art during the same time.

I stock the book basket with different level books and sort of keep an eye on what kids are reading. If I saw my oldest (she's nearly 13) spending time in a bunch of beginning readers, to the exclusion of the heavier books, I'd ask her to ramp it up some! But, I don't have a problem with her reading these easier books now and then (especially if she reads them aloud to the youngest).

Also, I expect more from my older kids in the way of science and history notebook sheets. You can always ask a younger child to dictate to you and the older child to write for himself.

You may assign reports or speeches to older kids. That's fine to do. An older child might choose to participate in a history fair with your homeschool group, etc. Also, your older child might enjoy making models of castles and boats.

An older child can also be asked to prepare a lesson for a younger child! Some kids take to this, others don't.

And when we get questions about what we are learning, I often ask one of my two older girls to answer the question by doing some research.

It's working for us.

[TurnOurHearts]

On a similar topic, I noticed that one of the spine texts is listed as for 5th grade (Exploring Am History). Will a 1st and 2nd grader be able to track with that? Is the entire book used or just excerpts?

In ADV, this book is used in small, well scheduled chunks. The first couple of weeks were a little overwhelming (information-wise), but we just had to find our "listening groove." With Pioneers & Patriots, we snuggled on the couch & it was more like story time. For Exploring American History, I found something for the kids to do with their hands while they listened and would ask questions as we went along to make sure they were getting the highlights.

It worked for us. :) HTH!

[4Truth]

I recently listenened to a CD talk by David Hazell titled "Multilevel Learning in the Elementary Years" or something like that. It was very helpful to me to hear that a 7 or 8yo does just what they can do, while a lot more will be required from an 11yo or 12yo... even though they're studying the same things at the same times.

Also know that the TMs include assignments for "advanced" students. An older child -- junior high age, or a mature 10 or 11yo -- will do ALL the assignments. A younger child will do only some of them.

The books in the Book Basket list (inside the TM) also provide for a wide range of ages.

[RB]

Thanks Thanks Thanks Thanks :)
I feel very reassured by these replies! So much so that I plan to place my order this afternoon! I think I'll order the "Multilevel Learning" CD soon as well...that sounds great.

[Jenn in NC]

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2008 8:30 am

I wanted to encourage you about the age-span of your kids. My 1st and 2nd are not that far apart, but my 1st and 3rd are... there are 4.5 years between them. I never originally intended that my 3rd ds would follow along in the study that his two older brothers were doing. But I underestimated the power of brotherly attachment ;) ... meaning, he wants to (simply must) do everything his brothers are doing.

So he has been tagging along for the last two years. Doing his own levels of LA and math, of course. And I have been continually surprised at how much he learns... just by being with us. And he enjoys it! I don't require anything of him, but he picks things up as we go. And I can see the day coming closer when he will be more officially "folded in" to the older program... it is all working out perfectly.

A call to the office would probably be really helpful to you as far getting some specific direction about how everything will tie together for you and your dc.

Glad you're here!!

[niki]

Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:44 am

I encourage you to do ECC too. We are using it this year with my 2nd and 3rd graders (as we did adv last year). They are both doing very well. I've watched them grow in what they are able to do throughout the year too academically, so it's been great. We have one month left - I can hardly believe it.

I think it will be natural for you to custom fit ECC to meet the needs of your 2nd/4th grader. Everything is rich and wonderful, you won't be sorry.

Enjoy your planning! I know I do! :)

[HSmommi2mine]

How do you share teaching the same stuff? What is meant by "multi-age unit studies"? I shouldn't need to really worry about that until my second one hits second grade right?
Melissa

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:48 pm

You would study the same subject but for instance get different library books that math their levels and while one child writes a sentence or two about what was read the other colors a picture. Is that what you are looking for?

[six meadows]

Posted: Tue Apr 01, 2008 6:06 pm

When your older is in 2nd and middle is in K, you will want to do K (a 'learning to read' program) with the middle and probably Adventures with the older.

I understand that (in a perfect world :)) every child will go through K and 1st and then:
- start Adventures if they are the oldest & in 2nd grade, or
- jump into the cycle where the older children are.

In my family I had 2 in ECC and one in 1st. The 1st grader actually sat in on most of what was going on in ECC (at his choice), but had his dedicated time with Mom in the 1st program.

As the children have gotten older and are all in the same program, I adjust the expectations for length of written work, # of vocabulary sentences, book basket or other reading material and general depth of learning. As the previous poster said, each one has their own LA and math levels, and the older has a jr hi science.

In Year 5, it's easy as there are specific directions saying "for 2nd-3rd graders do this..." Last year, I simply adjusted based on each child's skills-although some activities are already marked for "advanced students."

If you want more specific examples, let me know. This is one area MFW has really helped me understand. I love being able to use the same program with all the kids!

BTW, I have used my K program 2Xs and will be using it again this upcoming year. The student pages are available to purchase separately for those re-using the program. You don't have to buy everything again!

[MJ in IL]

Well, these last two weeks have been hard, back and forth, trying to see the long term picture but also needing the immediate picture, two sons completely different....it just went on and on. I've come to a conclusion: I'm ordering MFW in the morning.

My older son, 5th grade, loves to learn, loves to read, loves to write, loves workbooks, loves activities, just basically is a homeschooling mom's dream. He'll do great no matter what. If he wants to read every single book, fine. If I want to buy some SL books, great. If we want to clean out the public library, super.

My younger son, 4th grade, loves learning, loves hearing stories, loves doing and doing and doing. Struggles with writing, retaining, reading. MFW will give him what he needs - a gentler (not lighter) program (which includes art and music which he loves), more hands-on stuff to reinforce, more cohesiveness to reinforce, more flexibility re: reading. Basically less pressure for him.
Anne

How wonderful! I know that relief to finally have a decision made! MFW ships quickly~my last order arrived in 2 days!

My oldest 2 are similar to how you described and MFW has worked beautifully in my family. Through MFW I have learned how to successfully adjust expectations for strengths and weaknesses of each one of my children. I am a bit wistful this year as this year is the first we are not all on the same page with our schooling...1 in HS, 2 finishing 1850MT & 1 in K. I have loved having everyone working together!

Dd, who is starting high school this year with MFW, has thrived on a do-able school workload and been able to do well academically and explore areas of interests in service, cooking, swimming and public speaking. She is a typical 1st born with a lot of energy! My next ds has developed into a reader (this is amazing! given personality and early skills.) He continues to have areas that are more of a struggle but-for the most part-he really works through them.

Enjoy your year with CtG!

[lyntley]

I wish that I could come over to your houses and take a peek at your curriculum and all the fun things you do with it! I'm sure you'd all be warm and inviting. ;) I'm having a hard time picturing... how do you teach different ages with the same things? Are there different activities listed and you choose the right ones? They may cycle back through and I'm curious how this ends up being hard enough for an 8th grader. Thanks for the help...

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 10:59 am

I would love to have you over. I can invite you to my blog to see some of the things we've done this year using ECC with a 9 and 7 and 2YO with very different bents and attention spans. The link is in my signature...

The book basket is really great for the different ages. The list in the TM includes such a wide variety of books for different levels and interests. We all love to read together. And usually have a book at the table for most meals. DD is a book worm and especially enjoys the bios and non-fiction selections. She reads them on her own. I do read alouds with her at bed time, and then read more picture books to DS in his bed.

DD9 also does the extra research packets. 7YO has done what he can. He has not retained as much of the information as DD but is learning just naturally what he is capable of. Our little toddler sits with us for picture books, and does some crafts, cooking etc...

As we cycle around, DD will be doing independent HS work. DS will be in the 7th or 8th grade and will be able to do the research packet, read books at a higher level, probably learn more about the government of each country and do country reports. While the littlest one will be just starting out and doing the basics.

This is only my first year using MFW. But once you get started you will find a natural flow for your specific need and your individual family. It is very versatile and easy to follow.

I have to say that there's also another level being taught as well: My own. MFW has been one that has taught ME personally so much even on my own level. SO here we are all learning and growing together. It just works, and happens so naturally. It has been such a perfect fit and a blessing to us.

I hope my story helps you to "see" at least a little more clearly how it can all fit together.

[Julie in MN]

Posted: Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:44 pm

A couple of things come to mind when I see your questions:

* MFW differs from many other programs in that the Hazells and the pilot families have narrowed down our activity choices to things that are do-able and that take just the amount of time that's allowed for in the day.

* MFW really appreciates all levels of information & activities. Some are very simplistic and you will be surprised how much the olders still enjoy & learn from them. Others seem a little advanced, and you are surprised how a younger sibling is well prepared and still gets it.

* Lots of education is just re-learning the same stuff at a higher level, or re-teaching things the student may not have understood or paid attention to the first time. In a family, you are doing exactly that -- each child is grasping more and more at each exposure to the information. And mom is, too, as Lynnette said!

* Also, if you go to the archives, you will find some posts that might help, like these:
Combining - Grades 2 to 8...isn't that an awfully large range?
Family Size - Will MFW work for a large family?

Maybe you've already checked there, but I thought I'd bring it up. I have the opposite problem at my house -- teaching just one most of the time. There are others at home, but not really for doing science experiments with etc... Have fun!

[DanaFL]

Posted: Sat Jul 12, 2008 8:21 pm

I did ECC with a 14 yo as well as his younger siblings, and it was just fine. In fact, my youngest (then 8) usually did better on his geography tests than his sister (10 at the time) and 14 yo brother. (They would usually miss one, and he almost always got 100%. They each had their own reading (apart from our read-alouds) but did play the geography games together, and really enjoyed it, and learned a lot! They knew much more than I ever knew from my sophomore high school geography. It was a really enjoyable year for us.

I would not worry about getting a separate program. It will simplify things for you if they're all "on the same page." You will just expect more from your 14 yo than your 10 yo.

Blessings,
Dana

[kellybell]

hello, :) I have just been reading some old posts. Wow, this is addictive! :)

Those of you with children of multiple ages.....are you finding it pretty easy to teach all of them from the same core?

My mind is spinning with excitement to begin. :) Thank you. :)

Hi there,
I have four children, and I find it really easy to use MFW with them. You do one big program with the older kids and K or 1st with any little ones.

Keep asking questions and welcome.

[HSmommi2mine]

Unlike that program with "cores", MFW is set up to be used by the whole family together. You will find ways to make things fit a variety of ages. There are advanced readings and assignments for my 6th grader.

My second grader might write a sentence about our reading, the 4/5th grader writes a 5 sentence paragraph and the 6th grader writes a page and types it up. They all do the same assignment, but at their own level - easy, easy with MFW.

[meagabby]

Hello, I'm wondering how you teach a 2nd grader and 4th grader the 5 year cycle at the same time? My girls are in K-5 and 2nd grade right now but just wondering how that will work when I get around to it. I know I know way in advance right? Just not sure how you buy the books since they are on different levels but wanting to do the unit studies. Thanks for your help.

Dawnielle Penn

Hi Dawnielle,

you will combine them after youngest had completed 1st. So for you that would be 2nd and 4th grades together and so on.

What are you teaching your 2nd grader this year? Adventures? If so then next year you would be teaching ECC (and 1st to younger) The following year you'd teach CtG and include 2nd grader in same package and buy appropriate math and LA for each child on their own level.

It's very easy to do, I had to incorporate a 2nd child 2 yrs ago. I was nervous about it, but it really worked beautifully.

I'm sure more people will chime in with more details.

-dena

[SandKsmama]

Also, the teacher's manual has GREAT instructions on what activities/stuff in the books is appropriate for older or younger students, etc. I'm on year 5 of the cycle this year (WOW!), and I have found the MFW teacher's manuals just make combining my kids (who are somewhat far apart in age - 13, 8, and just-turned 6) so easy.

[scmlg]

I used Adventures with my then 1st and 3rd grader. I just added phonics for the 1st grader via library books and basic materials. Since I had already taught the 3rd grader to read I felt confident to do it that way. It worked great for us. Adventures is a great program, a lot fun.

[TurnOurHearts]

Just tacking on to add that the books in your package (for you, Creation to the Greeks when you'll have a 2nd & 4th grader in one core program) are appropriate for a broad range of ages. Your 2nd grader will enjoy the pictures more & your 4th grader can be expected to help out with the reading (at least, that's how we did it...). I've loved how we've been able to share these books this year in CtG ~ I also had a 4th & 2nd grader.

[mrspenn]

Yes my oldest daughter is doing Adventures this year and my youngest is in K-5.

Thank you all so much for all of your input and help. Blessings to all of you!!!

[cbollin]

Something has been on my mind for about a week or so.

I've noticed from using MFW for many years and being in many online discussions about the program that sometimes for some people that phrase "written to the oldest" carries other meanings that really aren't part of the program. Some times it is said that MFW is "written to the oldest" and therefore "younger kids are just dragged along".

In the 7 years of using MFW, that has NOT been my experience. I find the lesson plans include the whole family and my kids are not dragged along to glean whatever they can. I really like the MFW family approach to teaching. My oldest is currently in 8th grade and we've used MFW since she was in 2nd.

So, I think that maybe a better way to explain it is that MFW is written to the family and assumes the family grows together. 1850MOD is written for when the family has grown to a point in time where the oldest child in grades 2-8 has naturally hit the point where they are studying modern history (from chronological perspectives) but that child is well into the middle school years instead of in the elementary years. However, it is also there for the younger siblings to not be neglected either.

With MFW, it is my experience that using a program that is "written to the oldest" is really written to the family.
In MFW the programs have grown with us as my oldest child grew and remembers that there are others in the family too. The programs grow a little here and there along the way so that by the time the oldest child hits the point in "Middle school chronological history cycle" in 1850MOD, the program takes that into consideration. But it doesn't' forget that mom/dad have other children to teach.

1850MOD is written assuming that oldest in the family (from grades 2-8) will be in 6th, 7th, or 8th grade (when an oldest child naturally hits that topic in chronological history), instead of being in 4th grade when they are "exiting" a younger stage of learning. So it wouldn't be a good idea to start with 1850MOD if the oldest is 4th grade. But, a 4th grade with older sibling in the program can use 1850MOD because it is written to the family's needs -- not just the oldest child's needs.

So, while you have to add in language arts and math (and jr. high science), you don't have to an in an extra reading packet for the jr. high kids in the program. 1850MOD is written for grades 4-8 and the materials included in the package reflect that. Younger sibs (in grades 2-3) in the program would get an age appropriate younger kids pack. All of the planning in one manual for all of those grade levels.

Then it would work well to do ECC the year when oldest is in 8th grade. Then, you have to buy the jr. high add's on and it's a great program in jr. high with those additions. That year gets an extra reading and research packet for the oldest in the family to do before they head into high school years.

Thanks for letting me have a place to say some of that. It really has been on my mind for about a week.
-crystal

[SandKsmama]

I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm doing 1850-Modern this year with an 8th, 4th, and 1st grader, and we have loved this year's program!! It is plenty for a 7th grader, you won't need to add anything. Enjoy!

[LSH in MS]

Crystal,

I agree with what you said. I've noticed this year that with SOTW 4 and activity book the writing assignments are meatier and great for the middle school years. It has been challenging for my 4th grader but he has learned a lot and done well with it. You definitely do not need to add anything. My 2nd grader has enjoyed the read alouds in the younger grade supplement and my 4th grader listens in sometimes.

[LA in Baltimore]

I am thinking of using MFW with my 5 kids, 4 of which are school age, but have some questions/concerns. Their grades for this coming school year are: 5th, 4th, 1st and K. I am planning on using ECC with the 3 oldest and use something else with the K. This would work right?

To be honest I am a little scared to use this program. I have been using CLE. This is my second year homeschooling so I still feel pretty new at all this. I just love the idea of being able to teach them together.

Thank you

I'd just like to address the teaching them all together aspect. I have really enjoyed that about MFW.
I just completed my 12th year of homeschooling and never enjoyed it as much as when I switched to MFW 2 years ago!
I've learned a lot and they've learned a lot AND we've learned it all together.
It makes for nice supper conversation when Daddy gets home.

[Julie in MN]

I have one ds that is an introvert and likes to know exactly what is expected and where he stands (so things like tests and grades) and a dd that is an extrovert and likes projects just lacks focus. Would MFW work for them or would I be better off not even thinking of combining them?

I personally think the value of learning together as a family is greater than the value of tailoring materials to each child, at least during the younger years. MFW was developed by a family who had 6 very different kids, and pre-tested with lots of other families, with their different kids -- that's one of the things I love about it.

[Julie in MN]

Hello! I am considering using MFW this year with my 8th grader 4th grader (who would probably enjoy the 2/3 supplement) and young 2nd grader. I would use 1850-MOD, because we have not studied it yet. Also, I have a 3yo and another due in July .

When I take a look at the sample, I get overwhelmed! It seems like so many different books being used, and seems like it would be time-consuming to read all aloud to everyone. Also, my oldest (8th) has really enjoyed being independent for her history.

My question is, can I do the bible and read alouds together, and then split up the history according to age/ability? For example, listen to SOTW as a family, but have the oldest read some of the history reading assignments independently, include the 4th grader in on some, have her do the book basket, and then have her and the 2nd grader do the supplement? Ugh! It's making my head hurt just to think about!

My next question is, if I can do this, which history books would I use with which ages?

I'd really like to make this work. I'm just having a hard time imagining how it would all play out with such a big age gap.

Also, are the resources not repetitive? Are they on the same subject, but different viewpoints?

Can I do this if I am not a mom who enjoys doing hands-on projects much? We used ECC 4 years ago, but had a baby halfway through the year and lost focus and steam...Too much hands-on or prep for me (making the geography games, getting books from library for different countries, etc.)

Okay, I think that is enough questions for now! Thanks!

Beth

Hi Beth,
I'm going to try to give the conversation a start. I copied what I see 5 questions above.

1. Also, my oldest (8th) has really enjoyed being independent for her history.
MFW isn't really set up for K-8 kids to do Bible or history on their own. It's a philosophy of parent teaching for those. Of course, every family will be different. But an 8th grader should have plenty of opportunity to be independent in math, English, and science. When my son pushed for more independence in those grades, sometimes it was just so he could get-it-done-and-forget-it, which wasn't the same as my goal. Other times, he was ready for the chance to work on his own, but I really held on to the opportunity to guide him in the areas where there are lots of different viewpoints.

2. My question is, can I do the bible and read alouds together, and then split up the history according to age/ability? For example, listen to SOTW as a family, but have the oldest read some of the history reading assignments independently, include the 4th grader in on some, have her do the book basket, and then have her and the 2nd grader do the supplement? Ugh! It's making my head hurt just to think about!
If you jump into year 5, it is definitely geared towards families with an oldest who is in grade 7-8, so your oldest will have plenty to do. Your 3/4 grader will be in between. And because of the density of modern history, your 2nd grader can be sheltered somewhat during some history readings. So that means that one subject (history) may have you doing a couple of different things to meet your kids' needs. Again, it varies by family of course.

So if you go back to the sample, http://www.mfwbooks.com/downloads/pdfs/ ... mod_TM.pdf ,
the little black squares are showing you that the history row and the read-aloud row are pretty advanced for grades 2-3, so there is something scheduled down in the 2nd-3rd grader rows at the bottom to do instead. Other things don't have black squares, so you may well do them as a family -- I see during that week there are patriotic songs, a game, and a little about Booker T. Plus there are state sheets that are good for all ages.

SOTW might be enjoyed by the whole family, depends on the kids, it's a lot of history there. The SOTW optional activities are often fun for all ages. But the SOTW outlining probably will not appeal to the littles

3. My next question is, if I can do this, which history books would I use with which ages?
I think the little black squares, and the separate 2nd-3rd grid, will help you figure that out.

4. Also, are the resources not repetitive? Are they on the same subject, but different viewpoints?
A lot of the extra resources during this year seem to be added in order to bring more US history into your studies. SOTW really seems to try to not spend any more time on US history than it does on, say, Paraguay. But those of us who live in the US often want to know more! So Marie adds songs, state/capital games, state sheets, American Heroes (from the book In God We Trust), and some extra US history (Children's Encyclopedia - which is a thorough but secular book, plus the last parts of Exploring American History - which adds a Christian viewpoint)

5. Can I do this if I am not a mom who enjoys doing hands-on projects much? We used ECC 4 years ago, but had a baby halfway through the year and lost focus and steam...Too much hands-on or prep for me (making the geography games, getting books from library for different countries, etc.)
ECC was the most hands-on year at our house. And it was the year that we enjoyed book basket the most. But if you have given any consideration to doing it again, you might be happy to know that the games are pre-made now

There is definitely a component of hands-on in 1850MOD, but I'm sure it ends up looking different with every family. My son really enjoyed the things mentioned above (patriotic songs, state/capital games, cooking), as well as some of the optional activities in the SOTW Activity Book. As an example, I remember he wasn't really relating to the Crimean War, but the optional activity related to Florence Nightingale, and he kept a nurse's log of his heart rate and such for a week, which he remembered far better


Hope that gives you a start,
Julie