US1 & US2 Discussions - History semester, changing to BJU, etc.

[cbollin]

One of the things that's attracted me to MFW for high school is that it uses Notgrass's world history texts. How come the switch to BJUP's US history instead of staying with Notgrass's?

TBH, I've seriously considered BJUP's materials, so I'm not against them; I'm just curious why Notgrass's US history materials aren't used. Thanks!

I've heard that part of the reason is that the BJUP press is more college prep style in text and more in depth. That way students also get a variety of author's styles in textbooks. So, the BJUP combined with the CLEP study will help with taking CLEP for history credit.

I'm sure there are other reasons, but that's the one I remember hearing at convention.

-crystal

[Bret Welshymer]

I'm considering using MFW year 3. Does anyone know why MFW chose the Bob Jones text instead of Notgrass American History?
Thanks so much!
Daphene

There are a number of reasons we chose BJU United States History for US History to 1877 and US History 1877 to Present:
-Exposing students to different types and styles of learning material throughout the high school program. By using both Exploring World History and BJU the student has two different learning experiences. This will help prepare them for a variety of textbooks and professors in college
-The BJU text is very readable and engaging
-The enrichment materials included with BJU US History are very well done and provide a variety of learning opportunities for the students, including comprehension questions and tests
-Colored pictures of key historic art are included
-Good preparation for US History CLEP testing

[momofone]

Thank you!
Daphene

[Julie in MN]

You know, I've never asked at the office, but I've always assumed that the transition from Notgrass (large print, lots of white space) to BJU (small print, more pages, denser pages) was planned in order to prepare for high school gradually. Anyways, that has factored into my thoughts about using the BJU book in 11th-12th.

Julie

[momofone]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Julie. I appreciate it!
Daphene

[Julie in MN]

I was just looking at an email I received from MFW, and am wondering about the difference between 1850 to Modern Times and 1877 to Modern Times.

Just as a bit of trivia, the reason most history programs choose 1850 vs. 1877 is the Civil War/reconstruction. One time frame puts that set of events in year 2, and the other puts it in year 1.

Julie

[cbollin]

one more trivia point...

in high school MFW, the 1877 year as the break year.. lines up quite nicely for the CLEP exams. Those do early to 1877, and 1877 to present.

[ilovemy4kids]

Don't need advice, no complaining, just a happy post and sharing! Due to an injury, I've had ample time to pour over the MFW US to 1877 materials. Talk about an exciting year! The Literature Supplement is incredible! It will DEFINITELY be a challenging course. So much so, that I actually had a panic attack over our decision to use this with both our 11th and our 9th grade children. The 9th is a strong student, and a great writer, but some of the assignments are pretty deep.

So, hubby and I went to the local bookstore and grabbed the US History and American Literature boxes of lifepac's off the shelf. Went to the sitting area, and compared the lit to MFW lit sided by side. Lifepac had almost the same readings as the lit supplement word for word in many cases, the big difference was what you do after the readings. With MFW you think, analyze and write. The lifepac was fill in blanks, matching, and a few short answers. With MFW you read whole books also, with lifepac it was "suggested" additional readings, but no assignments to go with them. The kids BEGGED us to stay with MFW! Even though the other would have been less time, less work, they prefer the MFW. That says volumes in my world. MFW you are doing great!

We did end up with a solution to our dilemma; DD9th will write short paragraphs for many assignments and continue on with her complete Rod and Staff English as well. We will still award 1 credit for English by completion of all the MFW assignments (modified when needed) plus completing the Rod and Staff book (we did use ILL when she was younger but she LOVES diagramming and Rod and Staff in general) and all of its assignments too. The writing assignments in Rod and Staff which allow you to choose your subject, will be written about subjects from MFW.

God is so good. He work things out. No point to this post other than sharing a happy moment.

[editor's note: Please call the MFW office before choosing US1 for a 9th or 10th grade student.]

[cbollin]

Exploring America Curriculum Package from Notgrass. She really liked using the World History from them in AHL and WHL, and doesn't want to try something different. I'm trying to let her start owning her education, per se...but gosh it's hard to let her let go of MFW...

Anyone ever dealt with this? Why didn't MFW pick Notgrass for US History? Anyone know? Just wondering.

Thanks!

here's what Bret at MFW said about why they switched

• Why BJU?
  
  Postby Bret Welshymer » Thu May 12, 2011 3:23 pm
  
  momofone wrote:I'm considering using MFW year 3. Does anyone know why MFW chose the Bob Jones text instead of Notgrass American History?
  Thanks so much!
  Daphene
  
  There are a number of reasons we chose BJU United States History for US History to 1877 and US History 1877 to Present:
  -Exposing students to different types and styles of learning material throughout the high school program. By using both Exploring World History and BJU the student has two different learning experiences. This will help prepare them for a variety of textbooks and professors in college
  -The BJU text is very readable and engaging
  -The enrichment materials included with BJU US History are very well done and provide a variety of learning opportunities for the students, including comprehension questions and tests
  -Colored pictures of key historic art are included
  -Good preparation for US History CLEP testing

ooh... with your other thread ... [ http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... 887#p88454 ] take note of that last one..

what I noticed is that MFW used parts of Notgrass over those years as a portion of the total history....


In my family, I research the program. Make the decision what to try and when to change.
In my family... oldest gets to pick topics in electives.
When I was in high school.... the teachers didn't ask my opinion on textbooks. The admins didn't ask me either.

Give me some words of wisdom here, Crystal. How do I let her know that I want her to move on to the next year of MFW...yet let her know that if something really isn't working...that we'll work together to find a solution. Today she said, "I really like the Notgrass history...why fix it if it aint broken?" My only argument is something like, "Right! Well, MFW suggests THIS for U.S. History...so let's check this out first...and if it doesn't work for you or if you can't STAND it, then we'll get the Notgrass."

(no pressure there.. huh?? lOL LOL)

Sweetie.... "let's see how the first semester goes... try the new thing (BJU stuff.... it's nice too and I feel like we need to trust the process here and try the change).. and if it really really is horrible... we'll look into switching. But we might have to take into account you are older and some of the content might be part of this decision. Maybe we can read notgrass on the side if you like his writing style, or wait until 12th grade?"

-crystal

[Tracey in ME]

Hello. I was wondering if your daughter had a chance to see the BJU books? I really like the Notgrass books too and was sad at the thought of changing until I looked through the BJU books at a convention. They are really nice. The whole US History package has a different level of high school to it. It just feels more grown up. It's like that next step toward adulthood, both exciting and scary. Sorry if that sounds silly, that's just how I felt when I actually saw it. One other thing that I noticed about the JR/SR year is there is a lot of room for electives too!
Blessings to you!

Beautiful! Thank you! Can't wait to get it now. I will be purchasing this.

[Bret Welshymer]

Okayyy....I have been spending time reading through the samples on MFW for the curriculums. Will she be learning the states and presidents in the high school American History as well? Is the high school American History similar in what is taught in the lower grades? I'm just worried that my 12 yo would have too many holes for American History....

BJU United States History used in high school programs US History to 1877 and US History 1877 to the Present does include information about the states and presidents. The study of states and presidents is done at a more advanced level than in Exploration to 1850 and 1850 to Modern Times for grades 2-8. Students can be successful in US History to 1877 and US History 1877 to the Present even if they have not completed Exploration to 1850 and 1850 to Modern Times.

[MFW-Lucy]

For those who do not want to do the BJU American history test on the same day as the review you can move it to the next day and finish up any work still not completed by the end of the day Thursday on Friday--there are no BJU assignments on Fridays so that works out well. The test will not take an hour so students will be able do the test and begin working on the days assignment.

I hope that helps you!

[ilovemy4kids]

Lucy, thanks That's pretty much what we are doing, we just move the next Monday to Friday to make it work.

We are really enjoying week 3 literature. The kids had a blast with the Eleanor Rigsby comparison. Not only did they read the lyrics, but listened to the song (which they liked the music of, but not the hopelesness of the lyrics), then Emily found a dubstep remix version for her brother!

Have to say that the ALS questions on comaprisons was hard for me. I had to look at the answers.... told the kids, "if you can actually come up with this, you are smarter than I", yep my son made ALL the connections. Smarty pants!

TRULY HAPPY with our decision this year and thanking God for his amazing provision and for helping me to listen to my husbands leading.

Blessings
Sandra

[Julie in MN]

The assignment says to find two news articles that illustrate how any one of the three branches of government is currently exercising its powers. Uh...I'm not a government pro, but we could use some hints on this. I understand what the three branches of government are, etc., but finding an article on how they are exercising their power? Help? Crystal? Anyone? Thanks!

Hmmm, we're not there yet, but I'd speculate that a google search would be easy enough? I don't have this month's World magazine right here, but it seems like all of these might be in there, as well?

1. An article about a police shooting? There was one in Richfield MN this month, so that comes to mind. Or, of course something about presidential power that's probably in all the news this election season?

2. An article about a local jury trial or maybe a Supreme Court decision?

3. An article about a new law or a spending appropriation, especially a controversial one?

Julie

[cbollin]

typing same time as Julie....
uhm... hold on.. what did oldest do... I know I misread the assignment originally, Kate didn't... and then uh..
(I bought in feb.. and got 3rd edition.. not 4th... but those at home following along in your 3rd edition.. p. 34 instead)

Ok.. she went for some controversy. for one of the articles...it involved the executive branch (that would be the president). article was about some controversial actions in June on whether or not those actions were legal or if they bypassed Congress on law making. (it was about immigration and immunity to younger illegal/undocumenteds)

You might glance through something like your favorite news source online and check for some of the hot topics out there... often those news places will have a section to click for Politics and political stories.

You'd look for things where the President is doing something that is part of his office. It might be hard right now with the elections this close because it's all about the election right now...
You'd look for anything the Supreme Court has decided. I would even go for a lower court if needed. check hslda's website for interesting cases..
Look for what new laws have passed this year... it may not be an article from this week or this month even. and that's ok too.

does that help? or is that too vague?

-crystal

[Tracey in ME]

Thanks, gals! I had Triss read those responses.

[Bret Welshymer]

Hi all,
My daughter needs some help, and I'm not much help with government info. She is not understanding this assignment at all.
Help? Thanks!

I believe the confusion on this assignment has to do with the reference to the Tenth Amendment in the writing assignment at the bottom of the page. The Tenth Amendment is written right above the writing assignment, but unfortunately it is called by a different name. Article 10 of the Bill of Rights is the same thing as The Tenth Amendment. I believe this will allow your daughter to understand the assignment. Sorry for the confusion.

[cbollin]

Tracey,

I've recently received the 4th edition of BJU stuff. oldest just read this assignment.. it's not in 3rd edition.

My oldest is trying to explain the whole thing to me.....
I'm glad you and your daughter got it figured out..
I'm glad I'm not in high school...

I'll agree with Bret that one aspect of confusion in the assignment is that the page didn't make it clear on "the eventual solution", article 10 of bill of rights is also known as 10th amendment. In fact, I kinda missed the "eventual solution" meant it was a compromise about the 2 major arguments presented above the page....

But given how my daughter and I are reading this for the first time, I think that's a minor issue in the confusion. This specific assignment is an advanced critical thinking essay. My oldest just said (with tongue in cheek) "I'm glad I get to be 3rd edition slacker." for benefit of others... I wonder if these things would help to guide a high school student on this. I can see why this would be really hard for an 11th grader, and I can see why most students might approach parent teacher for help.... this needs some prompts and life experiences. They don't quite have life experiences yet to form opinion for the essay....

1. have them retell to you what Madison is saying (federal gov't has to have states... etc..)
2. have them retell what Bryan is saying (a large gov't like this will be despotism... make sure student knows what that means)
3. look for something out there that shows that states still have rights..... but have federal influence? or the other way around.. are states really not having rights?

If student does not have the life experiences to know where to begin to look....
*does your state have the same hunting and fishing laws as other states? (we live in the south and our state constitution gives us a right to hunting and fishing. just saying....) where is it federal gun laws versus state hunting laws? (I'm in south)

*alcohol drinking ages (find out how the federal gov't influenced 21 as the drinking age.. but is that a federal thing, or state? hmmm.. ) that might not be a thing in your family, so I understand.... but the way the federal gov't influenced it could be interesting... (it had to do with federal money for interstate highways.... ) even if the adults in your family do not drink at all, the point is more of that federal over state, but it was state's that had to do it.

*driving laws.... again, this might be something closer to the 11th grader's life experience... state laws on driver's license and graduated restricted license.. look at what went into that.

*or car seat laws.....

*or.... history of daylight savings time... who controls that?

I think those are things that might help an 11th grader to have a starting point to do a quick quick quick research time to develop an opinion one way or other. don't get bogged down in the research. pick 2 of those.... look up something on it.... form an opinion quickly. and take 30 minutes to write essay. consider this a practice on SAT essay or something, but mixed with history class research.

To "grade" the daily assignment... teacher can look to see if student understands Madison's words, Bryan's words.. and form an opinion one way or other on one of those examples in real life. There may also be ideas more local in your area that make sense.

but I know my child doesn't have the life experiences to have formed opinion without it sounding like she was just foaming at the mouth.

This is one of those "grade on effort" kind of assignments and make sure they spell things correctly.

-crystal

[Bret Welshymer]

Are there a lot of changes between the 3rd and 4th editions? I have 2 students doing this and was hoping to find a second set used, but used ones are all 3rd editions.

The biggest change is the addition of 10 years of history up to 2011.

The bigger challenge will be getting the consumable materials for 3rd edition (tests and student activities book). BJU is discontinuing these materials.

In most cases I do not see that sharing the textbook and answer keys with two students will be difficult.

[LSH in MS]

ok, I might have them share. That sounds like a better option.

[Julie in MN]

So it is test time for history. The manual says to do the chapter review and then take the test all in the same day? So does that mean that you aren't studying the chapter review that night for the test tomorrow? It just never gives you a heads up that you have a test the next day. Are the tests kinda like open book tests? Or do you study that afternoon then take the test? Sorry if this was a dumb question. Thanks in advance.

No question is a dumb question, so no worries on that.

I think as the year goes on, you will get into a sort of pattern or rhythm, so the tests aren't a surprise. For now, you might look ahead.

As for review days, I tended to take an extra day for review in both WHL and US1. The lighter Fridays helped with that, as did skipping any "optional" or less important activities. I think kids are really all over the board on these kinds of things -- some kids find these tests easy and others not at all. Marie Hazell told me once that she had all her test pilot kids tell her exactly how long they spent on each assignment and planned accordingly, so I'll assume that means the majority were able to do review just before taking the test. My son, however, needs an extra day.

As for open-book, I've read posts by families who do that all different ways. I don't think the tests were designed to be open book, but on the other hand, a classroom teacher may have a test prep session that practically tells kids all the answers, so there is a full range. Reviewing previous answers to questions and activities will help get an idea of what the test will be on. But I know some families start with open book and then move on after a while, or even start with open answer key for the questions/activity book and/or the test, and then go to open textbook (with no answer key), and then move to closed everything.

My personal technique is to try different things, recognize strengths/weaknesses, and keep moving them forward in different areas. At the college orientation ds attended last year, one speaker mentioned that she knew of students who investigated grading methods of particular professors before registering, and chose professors who used primarily essays & projects, rather than tests, according to that student's strengths. I haven't met anyone who actually did that, and there's a risk it wouldn't work out. But I think it's a good example of how having different strengths is not at all unusual, and as homeschoolers we can work on them in different ways with a clear conscience because different professors do things differently, as well.

Okay, maybe more than you asked LOL.
Julie

Thanks Julie

[Missy OH]

We didn't do US to 1877, but in our house ALL first tests of each subject are open book. It lets them get a better feel for what a test will be like and then they will know how to study accordingly.

Missy, that really sounds like a sensible policy. I think I should have just started out that way, rather than backtracking when needed

[Julie in MN]

Can anyone explain to me why the chapter review is scheduled on the same day as the test for the BJU US history text? It seems odd to me that the child would do a review (in which I'd think they could look for answers if they were unsure), and then take the test the same day. I think I must be missing something. Is the review to be used as part of the test? Should they not search the chapter for any answers if they don't know? Is the review supposed to be oral? Then the test written?

I don't know why this seems confusing to me. My son thought it was odd to do the review & test on the same day, too. So maybe we are just 2 peas in a pod or maybe we are both just missing the boat???!!!!! Any help would be appreciated greatly!

-Dee

Hi Dee,
We did the review on the scheduled day and then did the test on the next day (a light Friday on the grid). Review was a longer process for my non-detail-oriented son. Since my son did his service projects in summers and weekends, Fridays worked for us.

I don't think the fact that review involves looking for answers is an issue. Students who are strong testers probably won't need to look up answers at that point. Students who need to look up answers aren't doing anything different than, say, reading a review page before they head into the classroom for a test (which my oldest's public school teachers used to hand out at times), so it isn't an unfair advantage.

Oral reviews are a nice option if you have the time, very professor-like. Our reviews usually involved me having already corrected his previous assignments and then my son fixing his errors, often enhanced by my enthralling conversation about the topics

Does that help at all? Hopefully others will share how it worked in their family.
Julie

[DS4home]

In Week 11 of US History 1877-Present, the history assignment is World War II enrichment (additional books, movies, etc.). I would love some suggestions on materials you used for this week!

My daughter has already read: The Hiding Place, Number The Stars, and The Diary of Anne Frank. We have also been to the Holocaust museum and heard Auschwitz survivors speak. Thanks for the help!

A couple of other titles for you:
The Winged Watchman by Hilda VanStockum
All the Children Were Sent Away by Sheila Garrigue

You might be interested in learning about C.S.Lewis this week, as his book The Lion, Witch, and Wardrobe begins in the setting of the war. She could read his autobiography Surprised by Joy.

That's all I came up with,

Dawn

[klewfor3]

We are not schooling anywhere near where you are at yet but when I saw your post I remembered reading All But My Life in high school. It was such a beautiful story...one that left its mark on my heart. I have never forgotten it. Here's the description I found:

All But My Life
by Gerda Weissmann Klein, Gerda Klein Weissmann. Hardcover (April 1995)

Book Description
A Polish Jew records her experiences as a young girl during the Holocaust, including her struggle for survival in Nazi work camps, the destruction of her family, and the ordeal of a three?hundred?mile forced march during the winter of 1945, in a memoir that formed the basis of the documentary One Survivor Remembers.
Klein's openness and warmth are reflected everywhere in her famous book, from the opening account of her family in prewar Poland to her three?year imprisonment in German work camps. On May 7, 1945, she was liberated by the U.S. Army and rescued by Lt. Kurt Klein, whom she married.