Books - Streams & Victor's with younger grades (author reply

[Marie]

4th Grader

I am so excited about finding this website!! I've been on all day researchings, etc. I have one question regarding Streams of Civilizations Vol. 1. What I researched more information, online, I found that the grade level recommendation is for 9th grade. I am hoping I read wrong. I've got a, soon to be 4th grader, and wasn't sure if the grade level was appropriate. I was also wondering about the Victor's Journey Through the Bible being too much for him too. I'm a bit confused.
Blessings,
Susan

Author: Marie Hazell
Date: 4/8/2004

Hi from Marie!
We always use a combination of books to best cover topics for kids of different ages and with different learning styles.

You are correct, Streams of Civilization is a more difficult book. We do not read a whole chapter at a time. Instead, we use small chunks. Sometimes these are read to all students. Sometimes these are read only to older students.(It will specify "advanced" in the lesson plans.) Sometimes the information is read only by parents so that we have background information for questions our kids ask us. It provides depth of information for many of our topics.

Victor Journey Through the Bible can also be used multi-level. You do not need to read all sections to all children -- you can summarize or even skip parts. We again think it best if parents read all the info so that they can answer questions that may come up. The many maps, drawings, and illustrations are really great and help so much with understanding Biblical passages.

Our family really enjoyed the year and I was amazed at how much I learned! Our pilot families were very positive about the program, too, and one Mom commented, "It just keeps getting better and better."

[kellybell]

Next year we'll start CtG with my two youngest who will be young 4th and 1st graders. I heard that the Streams of Civilization is a upper grade book and hard for the littles to get. If you've used Streams with the littles, how did it work? Looking back, did Streams work well for them, or do you think another book like MOH would work better for your younger crowd?

Streams is indeed a high school text. And a bit dry. But it's pretty complete, has God smack dab in the center of everything, and seems to be accurate. Anyway, a good way to use it (what we did) is to read the Streams text before presenting it to the little ones and then teaching them in your own words (which are simplified).

[Julie in MN]

Hi Tamara,
I think you're worrying that Streams is the spine in CTG, and it's not. The Bible is the spine. Streams is a support book for the teacher to use to add extra pieces of information and really sometimes just to corroborate the truth of the Bible according to other history sources and archaeological finds. Also, over time I've realized that some of what we're doing is teaching *ourselves* so that we can present information and answer questions in a well-informed manner -- but that's a digression...

I would try out CTG as is, and then if you see a spot where another book would come in handy, you could always order it at that point. That way, you will have less risk of "not getting to" pieces of the curriculum that you have already purchased and are already good (I'm thinking of trying the feasts etc.).

Well, that's my take on it!
Julie

[cbollin]

My oldest was in 3rd grade (just turned 9 years old at the beginning of that school year) when we did CTG. We started with ECC in 2nd because ADV hadn't been written yet.

I found that I used Streams more for me to learn information. My dd liked the captions on pictures in there. But the book was more for me.

As Julie said, the Bible is the spine in CTG and should be more of the focus. Enjoy the hands on stuff in CTG with activities on Egypt, pyramids, Old Testament feasts, building the Tabernacle, and lots of other stuff in there. The science (even with the science nerd humor in the book that is used) is mostly hands on.

I just used the package and adjusted. And added in book basket books. I liked Streams but didn't have the expectation that my daughter had to listen to me read it out loud to her --- I summarized and highlighted stuff.

-crystal

[LSH in MS]

I read Streams so I could have the bigger picture. WIth them I did Ancient World, the Bible, and listened to SOTW 1 on CD.

[Michele in WA]

I used MFW for CTG without any other history book, other than book basket books, and it was definitely enough, even without using Streams. Give it a try, I think you'll find its all you need.
Michele

[Mommyto3boys]

I have a 4th and 1st in CTG this year. We are only on week 6, but Streams of Civ. is working. I do read it while they are eating their snack or working on their art lesson or coloring page.

Debbie in NC
Mom to 3 ds (9, 6, and 4) and 1 dd (18 mo.)

[Lucy]

My kids were 3rd and 5th when we covered this year and most of the days I also read from it. Sometimes I would read it quickly and then summarize. What I found is it filled in the gaps so well with the other resources that were being used to give a complete look at the time period. I felt that my Sunday school education was intersecting with the rest of history so that even as I read the bible I was able to understand a bit more of what was happening during the time it was written. Here are a couple of links from the archive that may encourage you as you are thinking about how to approach next year. One is not so directly about your question but deals more with trusting the resources that MFW has chosen to put into the curriculum. The other has a response from the author:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=486
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?t=2925

Hope some of those help to give some perspective on at least why Streams was included. Again balanced with the other books in the program Streams was a great resource for us.

Lucy

[cbollin]

Hello ladies,
I had SOC already and a friend let me borrow MOH1. SOC looked good, lots of facts, perhaps a little dry. Has anyone used MOH with CTG rather than SOC? Any suggestions for scheduling?
Thanks,
Tracy

From the perspective of someone who uses and actually likes SOC, at least give Streams a try. We used it in CTG, RTR and get to do it all over again this year. Even my non believing in laws enjoyed reading it and looking up stuff. It's scheduled in small sections so it is doable. As Julie said, it's not a spine in MFW. It's a side dish meant to fill it ou.

If you want to use MOH, put it in book basket.

wanted to encourage you to take a glance at some older posts of Marie Hazell's about why Streams is used even if it looks like a dry book. here you go
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... eams#p2195
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... eams#p2052 [above]


-crystal

[Julie in MN]

We had MOH on hand in one of the early years and I tried reading a story or two as an extra. Ds just felt I was being strange -- we had already heard the "real" Bible so he asked why we were reading something that wasn't the real thing...

You see, the Old Testament is the "spine," and Streams and Victor & other books are pulled in when more info is needed about the world of the OT or the surrounding cultures. MOH is more designed to be a "spine" and if you could figure out a way to pull out supplemental info at the right moment, that would more match how SOC is used, but it might be a lot of work?

Then I tried to pick those out, but it became hard for me to know when to read the other bits. That was my experience, anyways.

From the perspective of someone who uses and actually likes SOC,

Oh, yes, I love Streams! I've used it with 2 kids, a high schooler through a different program and Reid was a 4th grader when we did CTG. I think it helped start my youngest with a sense that "the Bible is true and correlates exactly with history" rather than the Bible is just this storybook separate from all of reality. It was really a good foundation for him, even in 4th grade.

And it wasn't a lot. Sometimes we were just to read a box with a picture & a caption or something. Just enough, and then we could jump back to our real favorite ancient history textbook -- the Old Testament!

Julie

[DS4home]

Yes, we did schedule in MOH readings throughout our CTG year. I found it to be very do-able, especially on Fridays, when there is no history reading scheduled. Some weeks I only used it once, other weeks I added it in 3 or 4 times. It varied throughout the year.
I don't mind reading some of the same info more than once from different sources in this way. Sometimes we would get interupted by the baby/toddler, other days we were fighting the yawns....so it's OK in my book to repeat some things! Finding some of those Bible stories talked about in another book had a nice validating effect on my kids too. They were hearing that those Bible characters were real people, in real times, right along with all the other civilizations. To see that it was being discussed in a "history" book, made it more real.

MFW is such a great curriculum, and I absolutely love it , and I also enjoy picking up an extra thing once in a while to add in when I like

Dawn

[TracyLee01026]

Thank you ladies for all your awesome advice. It means a lot to me to get your input. Everyone is so helpful and freely giving of their time to answer questions here. That's one big reason I love MFW!
Blessings to you all,
Tracy

[SandKsmama]

I had a question about Creation to the Greeks.....I saw that one of the books used for history is Streams of Civ. Vol.1. I went at looked at it at one point at a local hschool store. In reading through it, it seemed like it would be too old for a wiggly third grade boy. Not so much with comprehension, just the way it is written, wording-wise. I noticed that CLP recommends this book for 6th to 8th grade. I just wondered what dilemma this might pose for us. I am using ECC with my now 4th grade dd and 2nd grade ds. Just thinking ahead a little and wanted to know if you all have any advice. Have any of you found that Str. of Civ. is too much for a youngster?? Just curious!!

We LOOOOVE MFW and fully intend on starting the next level in the cycle after ECC. I just want it to work for us!! Thanks!

Liz

It's really only used to kind of "summarize" and pull together different readings that you've done. Also, there are places in the teacher's manual where it tells you to just read it and summarize for your younger kids. My kids actually really enjoyed the readings from Streams. It helped us all see the big picture. Don't worry!

[striving2Bprov31]

Awesome!! I kind of suspected that might be the case...

I can't imagine any of the book choices not being suitable! I really love it that Streams is a christian based book as well, being CLP.

Appreciate your feedback...

Liz

[TriciaMR]

You can either read it to them (my dd really likes Streams - we did CTG in 4th, and are using it again this year in 5th), or read it yourself and summarize. A lot of the information overlaps with Ancient World.

-Trish

[baileymom]

We are doing ECC this year and I am planning on using CTG next year. I already have Vol 1 of Streams of Civilization and have been looking through it - it seems way over my kids heads. I have a girl who is 4th/5th and twin boys in 2nd this year.

How much of this text is used. Is there another text with the CTG set that is easier to understand?

My DD was 6th when we did CtG, and she LOVED Streams. It's used fairly often. I read it aloud at first, and then it got to the point in RtR where the girls read it on their own. We still refer back to it now, and it's one of those books that I'm glad is on our shelf. ...I also know a few of us used SOTW 1 to supplement CtG.

[Julie in MN]

Don't worry, Streams is not the major spine. The Bible is the first spine, and bits of Streams give kids a real sense that what they read in the Bible is *true*!

Here is some more conversation, including Marie Hazell's response:
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=486
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=457

[4Truth]

Ditto the other ladies. You don't read the entire book in MFW... Marie only assign excerpts to be read aloud by you, summarized by you, or sometimes I'll have one of the older girls read the passage. Sometimes we just skip it if we're in a hurry and the same information is summarized in Ancient World or whatever. Streams provides additional facts and supporting information much like you'd find in an encyclopedia. You also occasionally have a map to look at or something like that.

Also, for those who have older elementary kids in the mix, Streams provides a good resource for Mom to assign extra reading or assignments to that older child, as desired.

[IdahoGrown]

Yes, it certainly is a higher level book! What I have found is that the scheduled reading portions are small. You can also read and then summarize the main points.

In the past, I have been quite surprised at what my children pick up from books that I think are too difficult for them. It is easy to underestimate their abilities! My dd LOVED Landmark History of the American People...and I thought it would bore her to tears and be too difficult.

Give the book a try! You might be pleasantly surprised.

[SusanH]

Thank you all so much! I was hoping to be able to ask my questions and put my hands on CTG at the Cincinnati convention at the end of the month but it turns out that I am not going to be able to make it

It is helpful to be able to ask questions here and get solid opinions!

Thanks again.

[Julie in MN]

I have three kids ages 11, 8, and 6. We are on week 8 of CtG. I am already reading Streams myself and paraphrasing it to the kids. We have been reading everything else together, but I think I am going to start having my oldest read Victor Journey to himself because it seems to be over the heads of the two younger ones. I may have them listen as he narrates it to me.

What other books will we be coming up on that you would leave off for the younger two and just have my older one do independently?

Another option with Victor is to just focus on the pictures and talk about them together?
Julie

[Kelly1730]

Another option with Victor is to just focus on the pictures and talk about them together?
Julie

I have twin sons who will be 10 in July and this is pretty much what we do. I read and/or summarize the Victor pages but I always show them the pictures. I think it helps them to visualize the setting, etc. of where we are in the bible lessons.

[mamacastle2]

Have you tried occupying the younger kids' hands while reading to them? My kids are 9 1/2 and 7 (9 and 6 when we started CTG) and we also have a 4yo and 2yo along for the ride. I find if I occupy their hands with something, their mouths are quiet and they are able to absorb the content in the books we are reading. I haven't skipped a book or reader yet, and my kids are absorbing the material fairly well. Some things we use are magnetix, legos, coloring, geoboards, playdough, lite brite, etc.

Just a quick suggestion for making reading time a little easier.

[mgardenh]

The TM will tell you some pages to skip in Streams of Civilization for younger children. Also Marie tells you in the manual things that will come up in the books that you may want to skip for younger children or talk about with them. She does a good job with this.

[cbollin]

I'm trying to gather C to G together to use in place of the Sonlight we were using. I'm going to be doing it with a 4th- and a 3rd-grader. I've read that Streams is better for older kids, and I don't want to have to paraphrase/expound on what we've read. We'll do Streams second time through CtoG.

That being said, has anyone used A Child's History of the World with C to G?

Or are there any better ideas? Or do I have a completely incorrect perspective of using Streams with younger kids?

Thanks!

I know opinions will vary on Streams. We liked it. It was in small enough bites, that it wasn't a problem on most days even for my slow to average middle child. Some sections, I skipped.

never used CHOW so I can't compare how it fits/doesn't fit. But Streams is used in small bites and only about half the book is touched on in CTG. rest in RTR. If Streams is too hard for him, the book can be skipped without the need to replace it. An 8 y.o in CTG will be fine with Bible, and the activity books in the package in my opinion. or use for you as a teacher resource to tell information or just for teacher to have as extra info.

some tips the teaching a child with auditory processing issues...(that would be my middle gal, and of course my youngest.. but youngest hasn't done ctg)
*many times my middle daughter understood more if she had the book in front of her while I read it out loud. That way she could stop me when she was confused. and point to words.
*I would perform the story while telling it. I used props - even "craft stick people" -- you know.... popsicle stick craft stick and take a marker and draw a face on it... that way she had a visual to follow the story and plot.

-crystal