Academics - Too much for average or not college bound?

kellybell
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:40 pm

Academics - Too much for average or not college bound?

Unread post by kellybell » Sat Mar 01, 2008 10:15 am

Not college bound...
momto6 wrote:Hello there everyone. Just wondering if anyone out there has a child who is not college bound. My dd13 is on that path and i am looking for some advice on what you may have done with curriculum, other activities, etc. She basically just wants to learn to be a Godly woman and maybe do some music and art, etc, while she waits for her perfect match. My husband and I are completely for this idea!!! We are not against college but just don't see wasting time and money if that is not God's direction for her. I already did that and have 3 half degrees!!!

She is such a great girl, with a real heart for God and others. She is musically and artistically talented so we do those things already. I am going to have my daughter in law teach her sewing and I think I will have her plan the garden this year...

That said I am looking to figure out what to do with school work. We are planning on doing AHL for 9th grade next year. She does great with History and Math, is good with reading, but doesn't much care for writing and science, although she still does it with a pretty good attitude. Any advice?
Wow, that's neat that you and your dd have a clear vision at such a young age! It's freeing for you not to have to worry about jumping through hoops to get to college.

My oldest is 13. I see you have children a lot older than my oldest and I don't think I am really qualified to even chime in on this, but it IS an interesting topic.

Why not make a list of the things she needs to know before becoming a wife and mommy. Things I can think of include a lot of what you have listed:

How to study the Bible (different methods)
First aid and basic health
Child Care and development
Nutrition, Food Safety, and cooking
Budgeting and banking
Arts (such as fine arts and practical things like home decorating)
Sewing and other needle crafts
Auto mechanics
Drivers Ed
How a house works (circuit breakers, basic plumbing)

She also needs enough history, science, and literature to hold a decent conversation with other adults and to (hopefully) home educate her own children.

Also, keep in the back of your mind that she might want to pursue college if she sees that her singleness might extend well into her 20s and possibly 30s if that's God's will. College no longer only means going off to a dorm room and paying a high price. There are a lot of on-line programs, community colleges, etc. around now. Don't abandon traditional academics altogether. They might come in handy in 10 years or so!

You said she's not crazy about science. But it's good to have a little of it. She may never need molecular chemistry, but there is a lot of practical science to being a wife and mom. I mentioned how a house works and health and child development. There's also kitchen science. You know, how to adjust your yeast bread to match the weather of the day. Also, it's nice to learn a little about high altitude baking (after 12 years in Colorado, I still haven't figured all that out). She needs to be able to figure out why a trusted recipe flopped (could it be the baking powder got old). That's science.

You are probably well-aware that there are some neat programs to help young ladies in this direction such as Training our Daughters to be Keepers at Home and Polished Cornerstones by Doorposts.

She sounds like a really neat young lady.
Kelly, wife to Jim since 1988, mom to Jamie (a girl, 1994), Mary (1996), Brian (1998) and Stephanie (2001).

LSH in MS
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Unread post by LSH in MS » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:15 am

Reading these posts makes me want a daughter! I did not go to college as I married early. My husband also did not finish his degree. He owns his own business but has now decided to complete his degree. He is using College Plus which is a Christian coaching/mentoring program that walks you through the process of a distance learning degree. We have been very pleased with it. He will actually get his degree from Thomas Edison State College, an accredited school. I totally understand where you are coming from. So many daughters are not adequately prepared to be a wife and mother. I wasn't.

Yet at the same time I regret not getting a degree when I was young. You may not feel this way but you might want to think about it. You can get a degree these days in 2-3 years for less than $10,000 in the comfort of your own home. We are seriously considering this option for our children.
Lori

wife to Clifford, mother to ds (17), ds (16), ds (15, ds (13), ds (8), and ds (3)
MFW user for 10 years

momto6
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Unread post by momto6 » Sat Mar 01, 2008 11:33 am

Thanks for all the great advice ladies! I love to hear everyone's opinion on things! I do plan to have her do MFW for high school and she is excited about the fact that she will have more "control" over her learning with the planner being hers and all!!!

I completely agree that we need to keep in mind that college may still be in her future I just don't want her to get "bogged down" with so much work that she doesn't have time to grow in the other areas.

We are definately working on having her working hard to finish things even if she doesn't like them or think they are important. I have said several times lately that life isn't always fun and games, etc...

I need to work on the kitchen science right along with her, as I love to cook but baking, not so much!!!
Wife to Doug (9 yrs)
Mom to Billy (22) & (wife) Stephanie (21)
Michael (19)
Jessica (14) ps
Ashley (14 years w/Jesus)
Sam (7) Loving Adventures
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Michele in WA
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Unread post by Michele in WA » Sat Mar 01, 2008 12:43 pm

Keepers of the Faith and Doorposts both have great books that will help guide your daughter in the wonderful path to being a Godly wife and Mommy. Doorposts in particular has more than one book for her age with lots of projects and ideas. Look at the site, and they are also very good to bounce ideas off of, as their daughters are choosing the same path yours is. Praise God! Sounds like you have done a beautiful job raising her with a focus on God's plan for women!

keepersofthefaith.com
doorposts.net

cbollin

Unread post by cbollin » Sat Mar 01, 2008 1:44 pm

momto6 wrote: I just don't want her to get "bogged down" with so much work that she doesn't have time to grow in the other areas.
I just went back and saw the age of your daughter. My daughter is 12.

Because of who I am, using curriculum for some of this just doesn’t work well. In other words, I don't want to get bogged down in curriculum that teaches in other areas :) So --- since wasn’t the best route in my personal case, I let my oldest work alongside me with real life stuff as life happens. I give her more responsibility for things like packing for vacations, cooking supper on Wednesdays. Getting her sister ready for speech therapy. She’s had to take on a small “job” at our church (teaching assistant for 1st graders under the authority of a real teacher of course) and had to get there on time.

We began to add things in book basket to help too. My library has lots of books that are practical how to’s for cooking, cleaning. Organizing, etc. We put those in. She wanted to try some of the suggestions in them to change her room and even learned how to do other stuff.

I know it is a casual and less formal approach. But I got overwhelmed with one of the curriculum style books mentioned and had to do it differently and thought I wanted to mention it.

Anyway…. My daughter is about ready to learn all about income taxes this afternoon. She’s about ready to learn the real importance of how to file monthly bank statements and knowing where to file all kinds of things. I figure she has several years to learn all of that.

Just chatting out loud to avoid starting the 1040's <grin>

-crystal

mom2woii
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Unread post by mom2woii » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:23 pm

Your dd must admire you very much and sees the importance of making a wonderful home for her future family.

I am going to throw in some food for thought only because my niece and I had this conversation just a week ago.

My niece is 30 years old and has never been married. She is a lovely, beautiful, bright, Christian woman. She is a school teacher. She would love to be married and have children. The Lord has not brought that special man into her life yet.

She has a younger sister who's 19 and in her second year of nursing school. Her sister recently told her that she wants to quit nursing school and be a wife and mother. She is not "dating" anyone at all and as far as we know, the Lord has not brought her a future mate yet.

My older niece is concerned for her sister. She knows that it is very possible God could be calling her to a single life (herself, not her sister). She has to be able support herself and she is glad she finished her college education and has a good job. She is trying to encourage her sister to stay in school and finish her nursing degree so that she can have it for the future.

Also, I have known several homeschool moms in my community who've lost their husbands to death or divorce and have had to go back to work. It has been difficult for a couple of them to get a good-paying job because they don't have a college degree.

In my humble opinion, I think it's admirable to be a stay-at-home wife and mommy. That's all I ever wanted to do. BTW, I have only two years of college and regret that I never earned my degree. At this point, with college approaching within a year for my first child, I couldn't afford to go myself. My youngest is 8----I'll be too feeble-minded to go back to college when she graduates :-))

I am encouraging my dd's to go to college because you never know what the future holds and in this day, it is difficult to get a good job without that degree. I want my girls to be prepared for their entire lives whether or not they ever use the degree.

I certainly do not want to offend anyone here, but I wanted to throw out that side of a situation.
Lana
Married 20 years to Warner.
Mom to Warner (17); Olivia (15); Isaac (11); Isabella (8)
Used Adventures 2007-08
Starting ECC Aug. 08

momto6
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Unread post by momto6 » Sat Mar 01, 2008 2:38 pm

Crystal, That is exactly what I want to do with her...have her learn what I do around here alongside her "school" work. I think I will chart her hours, etc. so I can count it as a high school credit. Thanks for taking the time to be a help to so many of us on the board...even if you are avoiding taxes...LOL!

Lana, I certainly am not offended and agree with your point. I want her to be prepared for whatever God has for her.

I have just seen the other side of the coin too, ya know what I mean? For instance my lovely DIL stopped going to college because she felt it was not using her time and their money wisely when she has other things she can be doing while my ds is in Iraq. She was going for a music degree and decided she would rather just teach kids how to play piano, guitar, etc on her own. Besides that she has a handmade clothing website and does other sewing too! Also, I feel I wasted my parents' money going from this school to that school when I could have just been working while I waited for my perfect match. Although, as you said, it is harder to just get a job these days!

I guess the point of this whole conversation was to get everyone's thoughts, experiences, etc., on the subject. I love how God has made us all different and we can learn and grow from each other! He has a unique plan for all of us and has made us to work together as a body.

Thanks for your input!
Wife to Doug (9 yrs)
Mom to Billy (22) & (wife) Stephanie (21)
Michael (19)
Jessica (14) ps
Ashley (14 years w/Jesus)
Sam (7) Loving Adventures
LOVED MFWK & 1st!!!

mom2woii
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Unread post by mom2woii » Sat Mar 01, 2008 6:41 pm

Aren't you glad that God is the One who takes care of our futures and that of our children. Although we can prepare and make plans, isn't comforting to know that He holds the future in His hands?
Married 20 years to Warner.
Mom to Warner (17); Olivia (15); Isaac (11); Isabella (8)
Used Adventures 2007-08
Starting ECC Aug. 08

momto6
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Unread post by momto6 » Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:49 pm

A BIG HUGE AMEN to that Lana!!!
Wife to Doug (9 yrs)
Mom to Billy (22) & (wife) Stephanie (21)
Michael (19)
Jessica (14) ps
Ashley (14 years w/Jesus)
Sam (7) Loving Adventures
LOVED MFWK & 1st!!!

MJ in IL
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Unread post by MJ in IL » Sun Mar 02, 2008 1:54 pm

This is a great thread! My oldest is also 13 and we have a vision for some areas, but not a well-thought out plan. Several thoughts came to mind as I read this:

Vision Forum has an interesting DVD out on raising daughters at home...I don't recall the title. They interview several families whose daughters have not gone to college. Excellent food for thought!

I am in the camp of having both my girls and boys learn "home & life" skills. These include typical household management type skills and more. I was recently asked what I wished I was more skilled at during those first years of marriage...all sorts of topics came up including: conflict resolution, goal setting, and managing priorities, in addition to the $ mgt, etc. I want to purpose to make the time to teach these skills reflecting God's character (which also involves "living" them...some areas are more difficult than others.)

In addition to several resources mentioned, 4H has been a great resource to us in helping target certain skills. For example, with my oldest we are working on some $ skills. The 4H project has provided the structure and we have added materials that specifically reflect our worldview. She is also doing a project in child care which is causing her to plan and analyze her experiences in babysitting with a bit more care. Its been a positive experience for us...especially in the motivation area.
Molly
dd14 enjoying AHL; ds12 & ds10 in RtR & dd5 working through K!
have done K (2X), 1 (2X), ECC, CtG, & 1850MT

angelsoup
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Unread post by angelsoup » Sun Mar 02, 2008 5:14 pm

Let me approach this from another angle. I am a single parent of 2 boys. I have been married twice, I buried my 1st husband. My 2nd husband left when I told him I was having our 2nd child; he is now deceased too. I homeschool by sometimes working a full-time night shift or as I am currently doing with my parents help. We live in their home and they work while I am a SAHM. BLESSED!!! Thank you God for my parents!

I never got my college degree, wish I had. I only have 9 credits. Now when looking for jobs, having a bachelor's degree is not enough. It is considered commonplace. It's the new high school diploma. They want a master's degree. My mother who graduated summa cum laude with a bachelor's degree has been trying to change jobs and most every requirement is for a master's degree and bilingual.

Imagine how daunting it is to be 40 yrs old, single and trying to go back to school not for 4 yrs but for 6-8. It's almost overwhelming at times when I start planning, plus I have no intentions of putting my children back in PS.

I have done the wife/mom thing and still found myself in a position that I have to be mom/dad and provider. I have no plans at this time to remarry. God would have to bring an exceptional man and then slug me really hard about a dozen times for me to get the hint. I would dearly love to have more children but only God knows. I joke with my parents that by the time I can move out, I won't be able to go b/c they will be too old and it will be time for me to take care of them.

I would add making sure she's bilingual in Spanish.

I have stated rambling, my point would be you just never know what will happen. I think if you follow what MFW lays out, then she'll be college ready and it will be her choice.

I will leave you with my favorite verse:

Habakkuk 3:17-19
17 Though the fig tree does not bud
and there are no grapes on the vines,
though the olive crop fails
and the fields produce no food,
though there are no sheep in the pen
and no cattle in the stalls,

18 yet I will rejoice in the LORD,
I will be joyful in God my Savior.

19 The Sovereign LORD is my strength;
he makes my feet like the feet of a deer,
he enables me to go on the heights.

God has a purpose and a plan for each of us. Pray and he will make himself known. I hope this helps. In His eternal love!
Debra
Mom to William (13) and Joshua (11)
MFW Adventures '06-'07
ECC '07-'08
Back to the Basics '08-'09
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mom2woii
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Unread post by mom2woii » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:53 pm

Dear Angelsoup,

Thank you for your post. I was trying not to offend anyone in my post about giving my opinion on the importance of a college education. I'm glad you shared your experiences.

Because I know some ladies in similar situations as yours and know of their difficulties, my heart goes out to you. I'm so glad you have your parents to help you. You are very blessed indeed.

Thank you for sharing your side.

God Bless,
Lana
Married 20 years to Warner.
Mom to Warner (17); Olivia (15); Isaac (11); Isabella (8)
Used Adventures 2007-08
Starting ECC Aug. 08

HSmommi2mine
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Unread post by HSmommi2mine » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:18 am

I am just a young mom without a degree but here is my take. Your dd may not be college bound but you don't know that she is bound to marry either. I have seen too many wonderful Christian women, who would make great wives, never find that right guy. Or they don't find him until they are in their late 20's or 30's or even 40's. What is she going to do between now and then? A girl sitting around waiting for a man is not attractive to the kind of man she would like to find.

Not that I am suggesting your dd would just be sitting around at all! I just want to point out that she needs to have a plan for her life and go in that direction. She can hope that God will send someone to her so they can journey together, but no one knows if or when that may be.

There are many things she could do that would serve her well both as a single and a married woman. Any skill she can become good enough in to teach is a plus. Can she sew, garden, play a musical instrument?

Not only could these things give her income as a single woman, they can bless her future family and offer her a way to boost her family's over all income in times of need. I sure wish now that I had a skill like that I could sell or use. There were times in our lives that I felt so helpless and I really wished I could have done something to make money while still being home with my kids.

One of my goals is that before each of my kids graduates they have to have a skill they can sell in some way. It may be carpentry or computer repair or carpet laying or sewing or baking but even my son who will probably end up with a Ph D. before he is through will have to have a skill. Even if you never "sell" the skill, it will bless you family.
~Christina

Wife to my favorite guy
Mom to 3 great kids

MJ in IL
Posts: 119
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 5:23 pm

Re: Not college bound...

Unread post by MJ in IL » Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:42 am

I admire all the single moms who are parenting and providing! I wanted to add a couple more thoughts here because I think there are 2 polar sides to the issue and, based on what I am reading, most of us are somewhere in the middle:

I am coming from the perspective of having a MA and a career path that I could fall back on. It would still take some work to make it "useable" as my association fees & state license fees were cost prohibitive for me to keep them without using them. I realize I am blessed to have something to fall back on, but I sometimes wonder if my single mom hair dresser is in a better position...she is providing for her girls while at home most of the time. While college was mandatory for me, my parents also did a great job of teaching me life skills. I am thankful for both!

I think the biggest key for me is:
angelsoup wrote: I think if you follow what MFW lays out, then she'll be college ready and it will be her choice.
I tended to focus so much on the academics prior to finding MFW that I was having little time to reflect on the life skills. While I feel we are covering the academics well (probably remembering more as I am not overloading) we have time in our days to make meals for others, be on swim team, music, babysit, gardening, animals, etc. (although hopefully not all in 1 week:))

Thanks for all the food for thought!
Molly
dd14 enjoying AHL; ds12 & ds10 in RtR & dd5 working through K!
have done K (2X), 1 (2X), ECC, CtG, & 1850MT

Julie in MN
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Location: Minnesota

Re: not college bound...

Unread post by Julie in MN » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:03 am

momto6 wrote:She basically just wants to learn to be a Godly woman
What a blessing she is!

I have a dd who is not college-bound. She is even having trouble finishing high school. It doesn't sound like your dd will be in that category at all, but I thought I'd mention what we put our focus on:

* Reading the Bible for herself. Preferably all of it. Not necessarily a difficult version -- I like the easy NIrV for the first time all the way through. My goal is for her to have a relationship with the Word so that various people she meets who quote specific verses will not confuse her.

* In math, I definitely think Algebra is a life skill that is used more than we realize, figuring out things from household repairs to grocery prices. Also, at least a basic geometry mastery is needed in case she ever does take those college ACT/SAT tests, and it probably is helpful in life, anyways. After that, I might not drop math altogether, but focus on things like budgeting.

* In science, I am going to go against the majority & say I think there are more options than 2-4 years of college prep science. Our local public school, for instance, offers "natural science" in 9th grade, which is similar to "general science," as well as "general chemistry" as an alternative to "college prep chemistry." If you read some of the very early homeschool advice books, you will find even more creative options.

* For writing, I have a bias and your dd might not like it :o) I think clear communication is critical no matter what you do in life. Although I would agree that "creative writing" isn't absolutely necessary, if that's what she doesn't like.

* For literature, the high schools in my area often read one or two books a year. I have tried to expose my dd to a wide variety of literature, but not necessarily a huge pile of the longest or hardest-to-read things. She has read some Shakespeare (making it fun), some well-known fiction like To Kill A Mockingbird, etc. Doesn't sound like a problem for your dd.

If I think of anything else, I'll add it here later. Enjoy your dd.
Julie
Julie, married 29 yrs, finding our way without Shane
(http://www.CaringBridge.org/visit/ShaneHansell)
Reid (21) college student; used MFW 3rd-12th grades (2004-2014)
Alexandra (29) mother; hs from 10th grade (2002)
Travis (32) engineer; never hs

my3boys
Posts: 149
Joined: Thu Oct 25, 2007 12:50 pm

some thoughts

Unread post by my3boys » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:02 am

I just wanted to expand on what Christina said. There are a lot of things that you can make a living at that do not require a bachelor degree. We live in a world where the possibilities are endless for making your own opportunities.

I have an associates degree (2 years) in Early Childhood Education. Before I was married I worked in childcare centres and this was wonderful preparation for parenthood. After I was married and had children, we fell on some hard times and I was able to call upon those skills and open a childcare centre in my home.

I have a friend who makes an excellent living teaching piano out of her home studio. I also have a couple friends that have hairdressing studios in their houses - one is a single mom who is able to completely support herself.

My husband has a good job, but has taught himself to build websites and do affiliate marketing and now he will be able to retire early from his 'job' to work from home on his computer - there are many opportunities in the area of computers. Having well-developed skills that translate well to a home business is an asset to the single or married woman.

Also, I think that it is important for women to be literate and well read no matter what their position in life. Reading and discussing lead to being able to be discerning and grounded in the right things - too many young women are led astray by a sweet talking man.

kellybell
Posts: 475
Joined: Mon Jun 28, 2004 2:40 pm

Unread post by kellybell » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:46 pm

Hi,

Julie, there ARE a lot of science options and very few of them involve textbooks!

Secondly, with regards to literature, we like the Great American Bathroom Books (you can find them cheap on ebay now and then) which have summaries of many classic and new books. It's one way to get an exposure to different works of literature without reading the entire book. Of course, an abridged (very abridged) version of a classic will be lacking something, but it gives you the main storyline AND you can always pick up the real thing and read it if you so desire.

Just some ideas.

Praise God that our children are different and unique and we can "train them up" individually!
Kelly, wife to Jim since 1988, mom to Jamie (a girl, 1994), Mary (1996), Brian (1998) and Stephanie (2001).

momto6
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:35 pm

Unread post by momto6 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:42 pm

Wow, this is a really great discussion! I love reading about everyone's different experiences and opinions. I thought I would jump back in and respond to...
HSmommi2mine wrote:There are many things she could do that would serve her well both as a single and a married woman. Any skill she can become good enough in to teach is a plus. Can she sew, garden, play a musical instrument?


Actually, she plays piano, guitar, clarinet, french horn, and is about to take up violin. She is also learning to sew from her sister in law who sews for fun and has a website, and she is planning our garden this year! Not that I am biased or anything but I think she is pretty marketable!!!

Anyway, I think it is great that this is brought up because so many of these things have been passed over in recent years in leiu of "a real job" and I know so many women who wish they knew some real life skills for home and to make money.

I also agree that learning to write is a very important skill and she will be doing lots of that in MFW HS. I want her to be prepared no matter what comes her way...

I am also curious what you do for science Julie... that is going to be an interesting subject around here!
Wife to Doug (9 yrs)
Mom to Billy (22) & (wife) Stephanie (21)
Michael (19)
Jessica (14) ps
Ashley (14 years w/Jesus)
Sam (7) Loving Adventures
LOVED MFWK & 1st!!!

RachelT
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Unread post by RachelT » Tue Mar 04, 2008 3:38 am

Hi! You have received a variety of responses, what an interesting discussion. I wanted to add something, too. I think it is great that your dd can play several instruments! I am a vocalist and did go to college and I have a degree in music education. I don't know what the future holds for your dd, but I think it is great to be prepared for some type of career or profession that your dd could make a living with, if needed.

I was able to teach music to elementary students for a few years and work, while my husband was still going through graduate level work. I've mostly stayed at home since my children were born, but I was also able to work part-time as the music director for our church and now I am able to volunteer my time in directing choirs and teaching my own homeschool co-op music classes. I really feel that my training in both music and education prepared me for the jobs I've held, the ministries I have been able to lead, but also for homeschooling! I think it would be a wonderful opportunity for your dd to continue her education through the college level and focus on her strengths. Who knows what God could be preparing her for in the future!

Rachel
Rachel, wife to Doug ~ 1995, mom to J (17) and B (15)
MFW K (twice), 1st (twice), Adv., ECC, & CtG 2006-2010,
Classical Conversations 2010-2016,
ECC/AHL 2016-17, eclectic 2017-18, WHL & US1 2018-19

http://rachelsreflections-rachelt.blogspot.com/

momto6
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Sep 06, 2007 6:35 pm

Unread post by momto6 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 9:39 am

Rachel,
I am so glad to hear how God has blessed you through your education. I will certainly pass your story along to my dd. God really does have a great plan for all of us, doesn't He?

On a side note...I like your hubby's name ;)
Wife to Doug (9 yrs)
Mom to Billy (22) & (wife) Stephanie (21)
Michael (19)
Jessica (14) ps
Ashley (14 years w/Jesus)
Sam (7) Loving Adventures
LOVED MFWK & 1st!!!

cbollin

Another High School Question - irregular maybe

Unread post by cbollin » Wed Jun 29, 2011 2:59 pm

leeandrea wrote:I'm still trying to sort out the high school thing. I've been sort of hesitant in asking this because I know there are lot of different views on college, high school, etc. I don't hold there is one right way to do things, I just know what is right for our family. Our family's plan is not to graduate our children, or at least we'll have to determine this child by child. Regardless of what course we follow, we will have no problem legally meeting the state's requirements. This is not to say we don't plan on the children "doing school" through the high school years, just that our goal is not meeting graduation requirements or preparing college transcripts. We aren't going to push stuff on her just to meet objectives that aren't our objectives.

What we want from the high school years is preparation for life. We want our children to know and understand history, know and understand economics and government, and most of all, know God and Jesus as their savior. We desire in them an ability to self-educate in areas that are important to them in life, or a need to know basis. I would like my dd to be able to read and analyze material to discern truth from lies and be able to see bias in writing. Having her be able to write a 5 paragraph argumentative essay or a research paper for the sake of writing one is not really a priority unless it helps achieve one of the other goals. So many credits for geography, so many credits for Lit., it doesn't matter. We are not interested in having her get a full credit in world history so much as we want her to know and understand history, why people did the things they did, how their view of God impacts decisions, how to learn from history and see examples of what went wrong before in order to see what will/won't work now.

I guess my question is, which is the opposite of what I usually see asked (will MFW prepare my child for college?), is MFW's emphasis on preparing children for college? Is there stuff written into the high school program that is mainly there to fulfill graduation requirements or make nice transcripts, or are the high school courses designed with a goal of educating children so that they are prepared to take part in life, regardless of what is to come after high school, and one is able to take the content and categorize it to fill in a transcript if need be?

Clear as mud, right?
Lee
Hi Lee,
One thing I'll just say and if it applies it applies and if it doesn't it doesn't and we'll just say "oops, I misunderstood". If your children complete your graduation requirements, you'll want to graduate them, or at least encourage GED. The reason? If they earn a high school diploma, they earned it. It will be there for work, or in many cases, needing to be a homeschool teacher legally.

I think I understand what you are saying in the rest of it though. does this sum it up:
Can you use MFW for high school if a child is not on college prep track?

Yes. and even one of the author's daughters chose to not go to college, but went career goals instead via another route. She entered military to complete medical training. talk about playing with my brain on that.

A lot of the essay writing in AHL serves 2 purposes in my experience this year:
1. the academic thing
2. the opportunity to have the student think about some really big picture stuff in their worldview and faith rather than just repeating ideas that others say

So, I think with the goal you have "I would like my dd to be able to read and analyze material to discern truth from lies and be able to see bias in writing." that is definitely going to benefit in that area.

Much of "college prep" is really life prep in my opinion. Part of the gems in MFW include that life prep - staying on syllabus to complete projects, reading, conferences with parent (mentor). College prep track just gives the most options. But it doesn't mean that "non honors" students can't be in it.

I think MFW's emphasis is on preparing the next generation to see the world through God's eyes and live according to that knowledge.
-crystal
p.s. You might like the book, College without Compromise. You might be surprised to find lots of encouragement in that book for the goals and path you are sharing. MFW sells it.

Bret Welshymer

Re: Another High School Question - irregular maybe

Unread post by Bret Welshymer » Wed Jun 29, 2011 3:16 pm

I think you are asking a great question. It's the right question to ask whether or not our children are college bound. What I appreciate most about MFW high school is the way it teaches our children to think and process all of life with God's heart and mind. Because of the way the program integrates Bible, history, and English, our children are continually asked to evaluate history and literature from a Biblical worldview. The writing assignments are used to teach our children how to analyze what is read from the perspective of God's Word. I have two adult children who were not educated this way during high school. I have one who used MFW through high school and just finished his 2nd year of college and a daughter finishing Year 3 of high school. My two younger children are far more prepared to process our current culture with God's heart and mind than my two adult children. I attribute that to way they have been educated through the MFW high school program. I often wonder how I can give my adult children the same opportunity to learn skills for viewing the world from a Biblical perspective that my younger children have had.

Wendy B.
Posts: 127
Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 6:27 pm

Re: Another High School Question - irregular maybe

Unread post by Wendy B. » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:07 pm

Lee,
When my older kids started highschool, we created a contract for graduation from out homeschool. Our contract looked very little like a traditional highschool's contract. SInce it is your homeschool, you can put whatever requirements you want for your child to graduate ,and these requirements do not have to be a list of subjects. My older kids met our requirements in different ways.

If your goal is "We are not interested in having her get a full credit in world history so much as we want her to know and understand history, why people did the things they did, how their view of God impacts decisions, how to learn from history and see examples of what went wrong before in order to see what will/won't work now." In the process of meeting this goal she will spend enough time on this subject to earn a credit in world history, and quite likely also an english credit.

I totally and completely understand that the goal isn't to "meet requirements to graduate just to meet the requirements." That wasn't my goal for my kids either. But if they do the work to meet your goals and fulfill your requirement to your state, then they will have earned credits that can be included in a highschool transcript. So why not create the transcript as you go along? If she meets all your goals for graduation, why not graduate her? Some of the hours/college transcript/diploma talk gets a little overwhelming and it is obvious that for many having the "proper" transcript with the "proper" language to get into a particular college is the goal. It doesn't have to be that complicated!

FWIW, our contract wasn't created to meet the requirements for a particular college or to meet the requirements of our state. Once my kids meet our requirements, I graduated them.....we had a nice family dinner and we gave them our diploma. I finalized their transcript --which looked absolutely nothing like a traditional school---and put it away for them to use as needed. One child used this transcript and diploma to join the Navy and the other used this transcript and diploma to go to college. If I didn't graduated them or create a transcript then they would have had to jump through even more hoops to meet their adult goals. My son would've had to complete a GED then earn 15 credit hours in college before joining the Navy and my dd would have had to earn a GED before starting classes. By contrast, creating a transcript that accurately reflects what they did during the highschool years was easy.

FWIW.
Wendy B.
Graduated ds '08 & dd '09
Homeschooling ds 11 & dd 8 using RtR
completed: MFW 1, ADV, ECC & CtG.

cbollin

MFW AHL?? Aren't most classical curr. super rigorous?

Unread post by cbollin » Thu Mar 15, 2012 5:59 pm

4littlehearts wrote:I have decided to use this for my dd's 9th grade year next year. Knowing that MFW is classical, I am concerned that the work load and the reading level of the books may be too rigorous. Don't get me wrong I want to challenge her but not to the point of frustration. There is one particular classical homeschooling forum that I frequent and when I look at many of the classical homeschoolers' schedules or book lists, I cringe and think that there is no way I or my dd could handle such a schedule or the level of books that many of the high schoolers are reading.

My dd is an average student, used to a more traditional style of homeschooling. Her reading and comprehension skills are fine for her age, but I wonder if she will struggle with the material presented in this. I guess what I am looking for is some reassurance. Thanks!
Before it was released, MFW's AHL program was tested by pilot families over 2 years by a wide variety of students - some "super genius readers", some "average normal kids". It is doable.

There are helps and hints in the DLP (daily lesson planner) in high school for average to struggling readers. Other students can use the ideas too of course. Among those ideas include audio books - especially for Bible. (you can get that online stream if you want... I use Biblegateway to do my Bible reading and play the audio from it while reading the screen.) There are audio books for the editions of many of the books in AHL.
I and others have some info on that
http://board.mfwbooks.com/viewtopic.php ... rek#p65599

There is the suggestion of using things like spark notes to help if needed.

Epic of Gilgamesh - 44 page poetic condensed version.
Iliad - that's quasi optional.... other options are given.
Odyssey - spread out over a long time. Those chapters are long. Other readings help balance the day and week so it isn't overwhelming.
Cat of Babustes... my oldest says "eh.. first couple of chapters drag with detail, then about chapter 8 or 9 it picks up and is really good!"

No matter how I say this it might not read right... no, MFW is not intended to be 8-10 hours a day classical style. MFW schedules it for 3 credits. averaging 3 hours a day. then you have math, science, one elective. And you have time for service projects, sports, etc. It is still college prep without overkill.

-crystal

SandKsmama
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 17, 2005 1:43 pm

Re: MFW AHL?? Aren't most classical curr. super rigorous?

Unread post by SandKsmama » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:14 am

Ya know, I thought that too when my daughter was going into 9th grade. I even looked at AHL (the book list and writing assignments mostly) and thought "there's NO way she can handle this!" I panicked and decided on something totally different for her 9th grade year. Guess what? It was a complete disaster! Not at ALL what we wanted, and in the end, we wound up piecing something together that looked an awful lot like AHL.

I had underestimated both my daughter *and* MFW's wonderful, wonderful lesson plans. They really do hold the kids' hand throughout the year - the instructions are great. It is not like they are being tossed into the deep end of the pool with no instruction on how to swim - more like starting in the shallows, and gradually working up to total independence. This year, I ordered WHL without hesitation and my daughter is doing great with it. No problems at all. It is *definitely* not as rigorous a model (or time consuming, thank goodness!

My daughter is pre-professional in ballet, and there is NO way she could do 10 hours of schoolwork a day!) as some totally classical families like to follow (I don't read on that forum anymore, if we're talking about the same one - it always makes me feel like I'm not doing enough LOL). But rigorous does not automatically equal excellent. MFW high school is specifically designed to be a college-prep curriculum, while still allowing a student to have *time* to pursue their passions, ministry/service opportunities AND time with their family. I love that!
Amanda, Wife to a great guy since '99, SAHM to 4 fabulous kids! DD(7/96), DS(1/01), DD(8/03), and baby DS (3/09)!
Used MFW K, 1st, ECC, CTG, RTR, Ex1850, and currently using 1850-Modern!

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